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Intel&Sebastian posted:I'm about two eps from the end of season 2 but can anyone tell me if the writing regarding Op. Smith's story arc regarding his son gets any less stupid? Or, if it's stupidity is ever at least acknowledged and folded into the show? I have very similar feelings after watching S2, but I see it manifested more in Joe's character. Specifically, I find the "Nazi with a heart of gold" narrative very disturbing. From what is shown to us we're led to believe that Joe is a good person (Why else would Juliana trust him?!) and his participation in Nazism is ostensibly a product of a combination of coercion, his privilege and his naivete. Based on the way his character is portrayed, you're supposed to like him and it's seductively easy to do so (i.e. His whole redemption narrative at the end of S1). Joe and his Nazi girlfriend symbolize the potential for "goodness" and "liberal progress" within a Nazi regime, which makes me want to puke. Sure he's a Nazi - but he's a also handsome, clean-cut, soft spoken white guy from Brooklyn who feels pangs of regret when his Nazi buddies blow up a boat of black guys. He can't be that bad!  Or maybe I'm wrong and this is the exact point the writers are trying to make? I doubt it, though.
mA fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Feb 16, 2017 |
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Feb 16, 2017 11:11
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about this show. The subject matter they're dealing with (and current events) demand at least a little bit of responsibility on their part to balance out this oogling of Nazi life with some subversion and depiction of why maybe it's not ok to lust for the good ol' days of the 1950's with the added grossness of loving Nazi's and I just don't think they're doing a very good job of it. The depiction of the Reich in S2 is starting to feel like American Nazi Party porn to me basically, and poo poo like what's going on in my spoilered bit there, and things like the tone-deafness of trying to advertise the show with NYC subway cars covered in Swastika's and Heiling Statues of Liberty does not help me see the better side of whatever they're trying to do and say with this story. There's way too much time spent on what basically looks like what Stormfront would be filming if they had millions of dollars and not enough time writing a compelling Resistance/Spy story that undermines it.
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:i think they managed to show the "nazi regime opportunist" archetype with john smith really well, but joe is just... a badly written character? he's like a piece of playdoh, there's literally nothing there, no driving motivation apart from daddy issues that rapidly take a back seat when joe starts to like his daddy so much he almost doesn't mind the japanese genocide thing that was about to transpire. it's just such a huge break from what is implied to be a decent dude from brooklyn or whatever. maybe it was a parable that one needs to be already invested in the world in order preserve it, like john smith is with his family and position, rather than be an unattached idealist like joe who ultimately couldn't really care whether the japs get nuked or not enough to stop his dad, which is why it had to be smith that stopped the nuclear war, that's the only way this makes sense to me I agree. In contrast, as sloppily as Frank's character was written this year, at least his character has logical motivations. In season 1, he'd rather hide and avoid getting involved because he lived through the holocaust as a Jewish person and was very much situated in a survivor mentality. In season 2, you can logically understand why he went off the deep end: 1) Kido gassing his family members in S1, 2) Believing that Juliana left him for a Nazi, 3) Ed almost being executed by Kido for being associated with Frank. Cocks Cable posted:I thought Joe represents a (relatively) more liberal upper class that is lulled into complacency via a life of privilege. He seemingly understands the stakes, and doesn't personally lust for war and human suffering. But he doesn't go to any extreme measures to protest what is happening. Even in the last second on the precipice of a huge preemptive strike, where he is best positioned to reason with his father (a futile effort for sure), his efforts feel weak and half-hearted. I think Joe's character serves a useful narrative purpose, but I don't really look at him as a hero type I should be rooting for and actually rather dislike him. I don't necessarily disagree, but it does seem to me that the writers are setting him up to be a hero figure, which is nauseating. mA fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Feb 17, 2017 |
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Feb 17, 2017 00:20
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Why is it nauseating? Joe didn't ask to be born to his world, he doesn't remember the old one. Because the idea that a white liberal Nazi with the heart of gold can undermine and reform the Nazi regime from the inside out is a preposterous premise, which isn't "complex" or "nuanced" at all. Rather it's quite cliched and banal. PS I watch this show because there are some good characters and some good writing (Smith), and obviously some laughable ones (Joe). mA fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 11, 2017 16:41
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