Duckaerobics posted:

Also, I'm pretty sure the $60 Elite expansion includes the base game (and I think you get a discount if you have the base version so it's not really a $60 DLC).

Dapper Dan posted:

That's what really boggles my mind. How the gently caress do you even judge anyone on promises in modern gaming? Are you so stupid to have ignored the massive amount of lies and failures, outright fraud bordering on criminal (I am looking at you, Aliens: Colonial Marines. It's like they promised you a Ferrari, but what they gave you was a fiberglass Ferrari frame built around a Ford Pinto) that developers and publishers have pulled? What about great developers who simply overstepped and had to alter things when they encountered unforeseen obstacles? (Dark Souls due to their inexperience with the PC platform had massive graphics downgrades and 'The Witcher 3' had graphical features it had to scrap because of the limitations of consoles).

To simply go, 'Oh, he doesn't have an evil publisher, only evil publishers lie!' is such a retarded statement. Peter Molyneux, Richard Garriot, Tim Schafer are three just off the top of my head to have blown massive smoke up people's asses and they were not associated with publishers and have hosed over their customers. And even they didn't have the bold faced audacity to sell imaginary ships worth thousands and tens of thousands of dollars. And then they have the loving balls to complain about ED for a $60 expansion pack. Anywhere outside of their echo chambers they would get torn a bloody rear end in a top hat, which is why all dissent is squashed on the SC forums and downvoted on reddit. Its also why you see them scream and cry whenever an article comes out and they get hosed in the comments section. Or the hilarious posts of when they show other people Star Citizen and they go 'Yeah, I'm never paying for this' they simply cannot comprehend why.

That's why when I say Star Citizens are stone loving dumb without critical thinking skills, its not exaggeration. It is the stupidest gaming community I've ever seen, bar none and I've played MOBAs. You simply cannot look at the industry and rely on promises anymore, this isn't 1995. Anyone who buys into SC at this moment in time is an idiot unless they are doing the cheap seats. You have to go by what they've accomplished, which is a tech demo. It looks pretty, but these aren't the days of Crysis anymore where people will go nuts over a pretty, but empty game. People want something more, and having a unique art style and aesthetic is more valuable than having bleeding edge graphics.

Iglocska posted:

I think it's an interesting situation, in both cases you are kind of talking about features that aren't there. Elite has the bare minimum in terms of gameplay to be called an actual game, but the basics are as stable and solid as they get. People do like to daydream about the moment it will be fun once it gets some decent content (missions, a real economy, player interaction, etc).

Star Citizen is similar in a sense that some stuff is there and people daydream about some promised features showing up in the future. Sadly for Star Citizen one of the those features that isn't there yet is the loving core gameplay.

Scruffpuff posted:

For me it was discounted to $45.

Unfunny Poster posted:

Yes.

Here's some examples.

First person shooting - While not in EVE specifically, CCP did make DUST 514 for the PS3 and are porting it to the PC https://www.dust514.com
No jobs/careers to choose/level up in - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Agent
Exploration - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Exploration_guide
Mining - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mining_guide
Bounty Hunting (jail cells to get ppl back) - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Bounty
Cargo hauling (space trucker sim) - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Hauling
Racing - While no "Mario Kart" or whatever sort of game preset exists, you can still race your friends in EVE. Some players actually organize events for this.
Ship repairs - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Station_services & https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Logistics_piloting
Players bases - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Starbase
Alien ships - EVE doesn't really have aliens, but the Jove are basically Humans that have a bunch of changes made to them - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Jove
Gardening - This is the only thing I can think of EVE doesn't have other than planetary landing.
Medical help - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Station_services & the afforementioned Logistics ships.
Illegal drug making - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Combat_Boosters
Player death - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Pod_Death
Stealth mechanics - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Covert_Ops
Planet landing - EVE was going to have this, but CCP scraped it due to production/development issues.

All of this took about 5 minutes of googling "EVE Online + whatever mechanic was listed"

Lmao, I posted this on Reddit and got instantly downvoted. Never change /r/starcitizen.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

I think the difference is that when people dream about Elite, they dream about what they want the game to be. For example I look at what Frontier is doing and I see something that would be amazing if they just added a metagame and gave players more agency. It's not something they're focusing on (or even promising) so you can't do anything more than think about how much fun such a change would be. In contrast when people talk about Star Citizen they dream about what the game will be. It's not about things being one way and hoping they will change, it's about eagerly anticipating getting what you paid for. The difference is why people will spend hundreds or thousands on Star Citizen while they bitch about dropping $45 for a content expansion.

G0RF posted:

Iglocska posted:

I am sure that most people involved with SC are deep down scared shitless of the backlash.

Duckaerobics posted:

It's pretty amusing that asking $45 for already developed additional content to a game is a horrible money-grab, but selling spaceships for hundreds of dollars to fund the development of features for a game that isn't out yet is cool and good.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

actually all those cameras were probably sandi's idea

so she can finally be the star she knows she is

Scruffpuff posted:

I doubt there'll be much backlash once word spreads that you can mine diamonds from asteroids by hand.

Iglocska posted:

Oh wow, you guys weren't kidding about using hundreds of cameras for this...



$75


$250


$1500

Chalks posted:

To be fair the middle spade is substantially bigger than the others.

Dapper Dan posted:

The thing is for as much crap as ED gets for being shallow, the systems are there. You've got a sturdy metal frame and some drywall. Its not going to fall in on itself and the developers have said they've made a decade long commitment to develop the game.

Star Citizen is being built by an autist who is trying to build the Winchester mansion out of driftwood and Elmer's glue while he tries to push furniture inside of the frame, constantly knocking poo poo down and eating the glue that is holding the joints together.

Iglocska posted:

That's spot on. I personally have my Python stowed away for the day that they'll implement something that will be fun enough to get back to, but I can't deny the fact that it was one of the most polished and stable games that i have played in the past few years, but Frontier's inability to address the real deficiencies of the their game is just outright frustrating.

With SC it's all a matter of believing in whether the promises that CIG has made are even remotely justifiable. Promising something destined to be eclipsing anything that is out there in so many different aspects does nothing more than set your audience up for one of the greatest disappointments in gaming. Even if Star Citizen turns out to be a good, heck, even a great game - it will never live up to the crazy hype that they've created. I am sure that most people involved with SC are deep down scared shitless of the backlash.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

actually all those cameras were probably sandi's idea

so she can finally be the star she knows she is

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Sunk cost fallacy is a hell of a thing. It's hard to critically think about the progress of something when you've already put in orders of magnitude more money than other games. On top of that most Citizens tenaciously cling to the idea that Chris Roberts is still somehow different. That's why the marketing campaign revolves around nostalgia and bringing back the "glory days" of PC gaming, as opposed to delivering a playable game that's actually fun.


I think the difference is that when people dream about Elite, they dream about what they want the game to be. For example I look at what Frontier is doing and I see something that would be amazing if they just added a metagame and gave players more agency. It's not something they're focusing on (or even promising) so you can't do anything more than think about how much fun such a change would be. In contrast when people talk about Star Citizen they dream about what the game will be. It's not about things being one way and hoping they will change, it's about eagerly anticipating getting what you paid for. The difference is why people will spend hundreds or thousands on Star Citizen while they bitch about dropping $45 for a content expansion.

Young Freud posted:

Star Citizen: grovergame.exe

Dapper Dan posted:

However, that's what they used to get a baseline and animated everything else without using diaper suits. They didn't need to use the dots because she never really talks. I've also never seen a production that focused this much on motion capture like it was something magical and special.

Dapper Dan posted:

True enough, but still, it is the domain of idiots. And even so, the three I mentioned were huge in gaming back in the day and all three of them have struggled to gain footing in the modern environment. And they hadn't left gaming for as long as Roberts had. The funny thing is, the glory days of PC gaming have never been here harder. People are riding that nostalgia train hard and updating it with modern concepts. Roberts, laughingly, wants to go backwards and do concepts that have failed.

Dapper Dan posted:

True enough, but still, it is the domain of idiots. And even so, the three I mentioned were huge in gaming back in the day and all three of them have struggled to gain footing in the modern environment. And they hadn't left gaming for as long as Roberts had. The funny thing is, the glory days of PC gaming have never been here harder. People are riding that nostalgia train hard and updating it with modern concepts. Roberts, laughingly, wants to go backwards and do concepts that have failed.

Dapper Dan posted:

Unsurprisingly, it is more motion capture stuff. See: Stephanie Joosten for MGS:

Aramoro posted:

I'm going to assume you know more about this than me, which wouldn't be hard. Why are the CIG cameras all seemingly set up at random. All the times I've seen this before the, like in that picture you linked, the cameras are all level with each other an consistent in a circle. But looking at CIG's setup the cameras aren't level with each other at all, the cameras also seem to be way closers than other set ups I've seen.

Is it just not set up correctly or that just a thing?

Scruffpuff posted:

Many of those early developers can't move on from ideas they had back in the day, ideas that were implemented poorly or just didn't work. They're riding on the assumption that now, with all this new tech, they can make those outdated ideas work the way they've always imagined, and in their minds, be vindicated.

Which you'll notice is nothing more than feeding the ego, rather than making a game for people to enjoy. Hence all this mocap poo poo.

Scruffpuff posted:

I think that's so they can have all the movements captured from every angle, so no matter where you choose to move your character in the game, the mo-capped NPC you're watching always looks consistently bad.

Iglocska posted:

I don't think that the idea in itself is too bad. I am spending half my gaming time playing remakes / sequels of old games that are in many ways true to the original. My next most wanted game is the new Homeworld game due in 16 days.

The problem with CR is that he diverted from his original plan of doing exactly that (taking his old games and remaking them with today's technology) and instead decided to revolutionise at least 5 different genres of gaming in one fell swoop. I don't want Need for Speed: Spesh ship edition, Counter-strike: Galactic Offensive, Surgeon simulator:Space and Farming Simulator 3016, I just want a new Wing Commander / Privateer.

I can't even think of a funny name for the news van thing, that's just borderline retarded.

Aramoro posted:

They would still need every camera to be the same though wouldn't they? Not having the ones on the left a few inches higher than the ones on the right, they're just going to capture different imagines that'll make you look like a mutant once it's put into a model.

Mirificus posted:

There's a thread about that exchange.


https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3zdbcx/rstarcitizen_we_need_to_talk/

Scruffpuff posted:

I should clarify - I wasn't referring to game ideas. I was referring to technical ideas - like motion capture, first-person waking up from a bed animations, and that kind of thing. Remakes with new tech can be awesome. But shoehorning these intrusive and weird things like ugly-rear end motion capture actors because you really wanted to do it in the 90s has my derision.