Octopode posted:

It's almost like that's exactly what I said in the post you quoted to respond to. You know, where I said specifically it wasn't a solution for a shipping game, but to get things running while they refactored the existing stuff piecemeal. The entire discussion was predicated by the idea it wasn't possible to quickly get a DX11 codebase up and running on DX12, which is false, not that it was quick and easy to get it done right for a shipping product.

Octopode posted:

They probably aren't ever going to just drop DX11 support completely, and they're going to keep using and developing on the DX11 engine for the forseeable future, but having the translation layer in place lets them develop and test sub-parts of the eventual DX12 renderer without having to wait until they can devote resources to overhaul the entire thing at once. To be clear, I think there's approximately zero chance anyone outside of the F42 Germany guys willl see the engine in action while it's using the translation layer, but for the people actually implementing the DX12 renderer, it's useful to be able to isolate specific portions and iterate on and test them before the entire conversion is finished.

Octopode posted:

They probably aren't ever going to just drop DX11 support completely, and they're going to keep using and developing on the DX11 engine for the forseeable future, but having the translation layer in place lets them develop and test sub-parts of the eventual DX12 renderer without having to wait until they can devote resources to overhaul the entire thing at once. To be clear, I think there's approximately zero chance anyone outside of the F42 Germany guys willl see the engine in action while it's using the translation layer, but for the people actually implementing the DX12 renderer, it's useful to be able to isolate specific portions and iterate on and test them before the entire conversion is finished.

Octopode posted:

They probably aren't ever going to just drop DX11 support completely, and they're going to keep using and developing on the DX11 engine for the forseeable future, but having the translation layer in place lets them develop and test sub-parts of the eventual DX12 renderer without having to wait until they can devote resources to overhaul the entire thing at once. To be clear, I think there's approximately zero chance anyone outside of the F42 Germany guys willl see the engine in action while it's using the translation layer, but for the people actually implementing the DX12 renderer, it's useful to be able to isolate specific portions and iterate on and test them before the entire conversion is finished.

theultimo posted:

You can't do that.

Seriously, the DX 11 and DX 12 shader backend is completely different. It's an all or none scenario, unless you are talking 2d textures, where there is some overlap.

Octopode posted:

Unless CIG has changed the handling from the base engine, CryEngine does not rely on the D3D shader interfaces, it has its own implementation of a specialized shader system that's not quite the same as the HLSL system used by D3D11, so that's not really an issue.

Octopode posted:

Microsoft provides an abstraction layer that allows you to create a D3D11to12 resource that will handle the vast majority of translation between the two implementations at the driver level, at the cost of additional memory and CPU overhead, which can be used as a fairly easy to implement stopgap during the transition from 11 to 12. It lets you transition pieces of the rendering engine piecemeal while the rest keep functioning, or use a blended approach of DX12 and DX11 code. It does require some limited rewriting, due to DX12's replacement of some higher level functions with lower level shader manipulations, but for the most part, it's exactly what Chris was describing in the original quote. You don't get most of the fancy new performance features of 12 until you implement them properly and stop using the old DX11 functions, but it's not that difficult of a task to get a DX11 render engine up and working on DX12.

CrazyLoon posted:

I don't even read Octochode replies anymore. Just wait until he inevitably gets quoted by someone else and called an idiot.

quote:

I haven't messed with dx12 yet but from what I was reading, its a pretty painless conversion and is much faster with the same code base.

TTerrible posted:

EDIT: I will poo poo all over Star Citizen given any opportunity but if you try to argue that SC leans more towards "simple scenes or 2D rendering" than it does "complicated 3D scenes" and will make no use of the shader interface you've officially gone full Karl.

Shut. The. gently caress. Up. Octopode.

TTerrible posted:

Hello friend, Ocotopode once again used his insider information on CIGs codebase to head this one off.

Mirificus posted:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...le-for-purchase

theultimo posted:

That's complete made up. Maybe their renderer does some internal mumbo jumbo for "performance" or lack thereof, but in order to use DX calls it will need to output to HLSL.

D_Smart posted:

Agreed. Also, I think they've reached the saturation point now and they know it. Hence the cash grab type sales. I firmly believe that Q4/15 is the funding Hail Mary. We just have to wait and see.

TTerrible posted:

Octopode is like a boss in a Sonic game. You know you've won when he runs away.

At first he stops responding to you directly, and then he doesn't post for a week. Last time I can remember was when he was wrong about how its totally normal for a single dev breaking his wrists to to stop a 100 million dollar project.

Beet Wagon posted:

Since we're laughing, this is an exchange he had in one of the Mechwarrior Online subs I still lurk in last night. He was advertising an MWO meetup and had a bunch of pictures of all the pcs in his bar/rape dungeon, and this guy was like the only one who was genuinely interested.

Decrepus posted:

This post perfectly sums up the term "adult child"

MeLKoR posted:

There are only two explanations for this shameless cash grab, either they are desperate or they are evil.

revmoo posted:

It's the perfect combination of trust fund baby and "I have an uncle who works at Nintendo"

revmoo posted:

It's the perfect combination of trust fund baby and "I have an uncle who works at Nintendo"

Sarsapariller posted:

There are some traits that seem to be really in common among the true megawhales that I've been trying to classify. I find it really fascinating how they all seem to hit the following points.

0) Every single one is a middle-aged white dude.

1) They think of themselves as successful businessmen.

2) They are almost universally unemployed and unemployable, or at best, underemployed.

G0RF posted:

Octopode posted:

They probably aren't ever going to just drop DX11 support completely, and they're going to keep using and developing on the DX11 engine for the forseeable future, but having the translation layer in place lets them develop and test sub-parts of the eventual DX12 renderer without having to wait until they can devote resources to overhaul the entire thing at once. To be clear, I think there's approximately zero chance anyone outside of the F42 Germany guys willl see the engine in action while it's using the translation layer, but for the people actually implementing the DX12 renderer, it's useful to be able to isolate specific portions and iterate on and test them before the entire conversion is finished.

Sarsapariller posted:

Yeah it definitely fits with the demographics of Star Citizen but the interesting thing (to me) is that these traits are pretty universal across megawhales in virtually all games. Any time you see someone spending just a crazy unhealthy amount on a game, chances are they're going to fit this model closely. Star Citizen's just unique in that the whales in this game don't even start until you cross into thousands-of-dollars territory. People spending a couple hundred are considered small fry at best.

CrazyLoon posted:

I don't even read Octochode replies anymore. Just wait until he inevitably gets quoted by someone else and called an idiot.