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Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Tippis posted:

Because he made a fun and (largely) functional game once. Maybe even twice (and he only went 400% over budget). Everything else he has ever done is obviously an anomaly compared to that data point.

I saw this a while back. Is there a story here? Was WC3 or WC4 a budget disaster?

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Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

B_of_InfoRedux posted:

Usually were being called talentless assume clowns or something similarly unoriginal.

Allow me to also offer you and your co-writer praise on a fun and informative site. If you want followup articles, perhaps track the progress of PGabz's refund request...

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.
I'm holding out hope that Ben is Derek's secret inside source. That when this shitshow finally implodes, Chris will look up from the rubble and see Ben's eyes aglow with unholy triumph as he reveals that he finally has vengeance.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

EminusSleepus posted:

SC=Hollywood
ED=NASA

And to continue this analogy, what the backers all signed on for was the construction and launch of a space station in orbit of Jupiter.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Berious posted:

Imaging coming to work everyday dreading seeing your boss on the computer because he is probably playing a new game he'll demand you replicate for his opus.

This is exactly what happened to Duke Nukem Forever, for gently caress's sake. And there, what kept the poor developers chained to their desks was that 3D Realms had deliberately hired new (i.e. institutionally inexperienced, starry-eyed and optimistic) developers and paid them in future royalties.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.
Hey wikkid, you're going to run into trouble at County Court level without sending a pre-action letter. It's the statement of account that's the important bit, moreso than sending it recorded-delivery. If you turn up the trial without sending it the judge may well ask you why not. There's a set protocol for debt claims and not following it risks being ordered to pay CIG's costs. And you can bet your rear end those fucks will rack up insane costs to try and scare you out of it. It's a stock tactic.

On the other hand, you mention they've already indicated they intend to defend and are disputing jurisdiction - presumably you've filed a claim form? Did you use MCOL?

It'll come down to how the judge is feeling whether or not he makes a point of this on the day, but expect CIG's lawyer to bring it up. You might find you get a direction to set out the exact sum claimed and how each figure was calculated.

I'd be intensely curious to see the paperwork after the case is concluded. The above is not legal advice etc etc.

RE: people asking if they can see the court documents, it'll depend on the court. Statements of case are matters of public record in the UK, as are court judgements themselves, and some courts stick them up as PDFs. On the other hand they'll also have wikkid's real name and address on them so he probably doesn't want to hand out links.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Fargin Icehole posted:

Alright, trying to find the actor's access page of her, I want to show my brother why something like Sandi acting with A-List actors, and comparing it to Joe Kucan directing and acting as Kane with actors in the Command and Conquer days is incomparable.

Joe Kucan was already working as a producer with Westwood when C&C1 was made. He was tapped for the role of Kane as a guy with acting experience who could look menacing in front of a camera. The FMVs, of course, became one of the best and most fun parts of the C&C series and he went on to build an entire film studio inside Westwood's offices in Las Vegas but he still worked as a producer when the cameras were off.

Plus of course the C&C games were actually released, were greatly popular, and made vast amounts of money.

He runs a theatrical company now. He came out of retirement for the later C&Cs.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Rhubarb94 posted:

My thoughts exactly.

Could you direct me to the cool aid apparently I should drink some.

You can find the bottle under the You need a Platinum account to view this message.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.
My endgame bet is that SQ42 will come out, and then CRoberts will find an excuse to bail. Maybe it's a relaunched film company, maybe it's a new game project on the back of his "glorious success", maybe it's to support his wife's new acting career, whatever. That's his exit window.

He'll make a big tearful public announcement and walk into the sunset. The managers he appointed will struggle on for a few months as the whales rage and begin to walk away, then CIG itself will quietly sink without trace.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.
Why is there suddenly a question about Ilfonic? I thought what had happened was fairly settled - their Star Marine code wasn't compatible with the big shiny 64-bit coordinate system, and presumably CIG terminated their contract rather than try to fix it. A lovely move, but by no means unprecedented.

Why they terminated it so abruptly is a question-mark, admittedly, but not a very big one. If there was drama, it was well-hidden.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.
My personal bet is that it's straight-up evidence of a financial meltdown. Whether embezzlement or a leak of the level of salary/dividend payments being shelled out to the senior management...or even just a huge unpaid tax or rent bill. That's the only thing I can think of that would be known to so few. Surely any big technical problems would be known to the team that raised them?

Bootcha's remarks have included a lot of oblique references to dubious people hanging around the Croberts Duo, and Ortwin looks stunningly dubious. I'd trust this lot as far I could throw them.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Ash1138 posted:

Let me guess: What EightAce said about there being no playable missions yet is true because they're working on all the cutscenes before even bothering to make the game? Like CRobbers is literally making his mocap movie and there's no Squadron 42 game?

Maybe the mocap data doesn't work with CryEngine? :allears:

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Kakarot posted:

I better move my money from Star Citizen to Lego :tinfoil:

Speaking of which, has anyone looked at the LEGO Ideas website recently?

There's a Hornet on it.

It's been "under review" for over a year now. LEGO have carefully avoided making a decision on it. They probably don't want to have their name associated with a shitshow if CIG collapses, but they're wary of the backlash if they reject it outright.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

TheLastRoboKy posted:

It's amazing and horrible to me that the focus of their ire is still on a backer they banned from their forums making them look ridiculous.

He said a bad thing. If there's one thing a narcissist cannot stand - one thing that gnaws and tears at them and drives them to distraction - it's the thought that someone might be thinking a bad thing about them right now. People have already pointed out that Sandi seemed determined to engage Beer directly just so she could tell him off for his line about suicides. That line has clearly lodged in her consciousness and she must - MUST - make Beer recant.

I genuinely believe that is why Beer was banned. Yes, the "obvious" tale is that his questioning upset people and his advice about how to apply for refunds was damaging their income. That's how someone might rationalise it. But the real reason the button was clicked was almost certainly MAKE THE BAD MAN STOP SAYING BAD THINGS.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.
The problem with a console port is that it will presumably require a third party to bring to market, and to handle distribution.

A "publisher", if you will.

Worse, said hypothetical "publisher" will presumably want progress reports and adherence to (gulp) deadlines.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Colostomy Bag posted:

My guess is that if the shopping mechanics are in...we will in fact have vending machines that operate and dispenses food. The animation will be very long.

I'm guessing a fully-functional ingame cash shop for clothes and cosmetic items. It has just the right ring of pointlessness and cash-grab to it.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.
Can some nice goon link me to the post in this thread where the showroom was first announced? Was it in a RtV episode, and if so which one?

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

TheLastRoboKy posted:

Bioshock Infinite was probably a good example of that.

Do you have any sources for this? There were a lot of rumours swirling around when the game came out, but have people actually started to come forward with the tale?

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Galarox posted:

Incindentally, if anyone has some suggestions for classic art/paintings or anything else I can play with/CIG-ify please suggest it. I am laid up with a back injury at the mo so I have the time! :jeb:

If you're up for something a bit more unconventional, I feel Solar Plebean is still missing an important ship concept.

The huge whale-ship. The Uberdestroyer. A massive modular monstrosity requiring a crew of 20-100 turret gunners, cargo tetris operators, and space poors to properly operate. Needless to say it should be covered in useless turrets, have lots of holes to fall out of the ship through, and not-really-optional modules that cost extra. Module options include a private sequoia forest, a massive media server rack where the individual server blades need constant changing by your teams of poors and faithless late-backers, and a gold-plated stimpire discipline chamber.

Even having one on your server should immediately force all other players out of the instance. Needless to say, the most crucial control on the bridge is the PVP Slider.

Costs $28,000,000 payable in gold krugerrands and there's a two-year waiting list.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

Last we saw was him asking on twitch about them hiring someone to harass travis day i think?

Can you expand on this? Before the thread hosed up and drove him out, Bootcha was talking about CIG trying and failing to use their private investigator to pin their leaks on Travis Day so they could sue him (ironically on the basis that Sandi's terrible treatment of his wife Chelsea had given him a grudge). He said his source had told him that CIG's upper echelons were going all-out, claiming he was orchestrating a huge hate campaign behind the scenes.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Back when coffeechat first came up (and Ben was still talking to me), he said they had an espresso machine in the old building. It was a Delonghi Magnifica, which is apparently $600 on Amazon. Then again he also said he didn't know anything about a $20,000 espresso machine in the new building... so thanks Ben I'm glad to see your credibility remains unchanged.

You don't think the Crobbler allows mere salarymen to touch The Mean Bean Machine, do you?

That thing will be in the gold-plated executive suite, enthroned in porcelain and marble, polished daily with the fresh tears of Cutlass owners.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Literally Kermit posted:

What should I write about next?

I wanna hear about famous ships of the Stimpire. Notable vessels on all sides of the conflict, and their great/terrible/hilarious deeds.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

D_Smart posted:

But hey, it's a pay check. So there is that.

It's sounding like CIG is resume poison too.

It's just a waste. That's the real tragedy here. The terrible, terrible waste of money and lives and talent.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.
EightAce and atxsperg, if you're reading this...

How personally charismatic is Chris Roberts? Because we've now had reports from both yourselves and Derek that major figures have resigned or walked out, and then been talked into staying. Before Star Citizen the Crobbler had a decentish rep as a Hollywood fundraiser and we know he got those producer credits. So...how? How does he do it?

Is there another side to Chris, a smooth-talking charmer aspect that comes out when he's talking to people he really cares about? What's he like for all-hands company announcements, or does he get Ben/Erin to make those?

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Atreiden posted:

EDIT: they used to have an asian guy in the background too, showed up around the same time as Money, always had this face on of disbelief. I don't think he got as much attention as Money and he might actually have had something to do with game development. Anyone knows who I'm talking about?

I know who you mean, he was introduced a few times as a paralegal who shared their temporary office. He had a schtick of trying to do Serious Work with these wacky antics going on around him. Presumably he was the most non-white of Ortwin's minions.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

G0RF posted:

I didn't think people were dissing EightAce in thread-- they tended to get a hero's welcome.

Yes they were. We had that shithead with the vomiting avatar demanding that 8ace just post everything or be called a pussy, we had a horde of people complaining that they couldn't crack his coded message and getting angry with him/them over it...we had a good three pages of people making GBS threads on 8ace.

Surprise surprise, 8ace walked out. Good job thread.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Scruffpuff posted:

Combine those people with the more spergy, but still pissed-off ex-cultists, who are finally waking up en masse, and we'll have ourselves an overdue revolution.

Here's the thing, though. How are they going to revolt? The brown sea are many things, but they're not proper venture capitalists.

The worst thing they can do is stop the funding stream, which they're currently doing...slowly. Other than that, there's little the average SC pledger can really do to CIG other than badmouth them. Most of the whales aren't mega-wealthy tech types - from what we've seen, they're largely spergs with day jobs who've been tithing big portions of their income to CIG. People like that can't afford a lawyer.

They could perhaps join a class-action lawsuit if it were already started. For that we'd need one or two angry, self-righteous, obsessive and rich backers to get really angry. By all accounts that's CIG's nightmare scenario and the one they're desperately trying to avoid. I'd be curious to know if they've already promised stuff privately to a few megawhales to head this off - Bootcha might not be the only guy to get a large refund.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Iglocska posted:

Also, what the gently caress is this?

Cool is what it is. Just needs some gunz on the side and a crazed Ork piloting it.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Palisader posted:

I know everyone is saying now that Ben won't be the fall guy

Ben may not successfully be the fall guy. I'll bet money that if CIG go down hard, CRoberts will try and spin the pledge system as "being pulled into overcommitting by my Director of Spaceships" at some point during his last rants.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

B_of_InfoRedux posted:

If anyone really cares about the backers, or the money, or whatever other stupid excuse then just come out with the info. Hasten the downfall. Quit playing games. Quit making excuses. In this day and age it can be done annomously. If you really care about any of this, and not your own need to dick wag, then the bullshit games would be done and the info would be out there. As honestly it needs to be.

There may be very very good legal reasons for not giving us encrypted hints. If there genuinely is an investigation by law enforcement agencies - whatever their provenance or origin - and Derek knows about it, then potentially even hinting about any such investigation could be a criminal offence. In the UK this is called "tipping off", and it would be a bitch to defend since it's very hard to prove that someone (say, at CIG) didn't crack Derek's encryption early and alter data or evidence ahead of time.

Worse, the existence of a secret taunting website could be held in court to taint the prosecution. That includes cunning games with URLs, lockbin files, the works. If the ELE exists and is the kind that might include dawn raids and asset freezes and eventual trials, then we as a thread aren't worth the risk.

Yes, this does come across as containing just as wishful thinking as those we mock. That's the game you play when you start making fun of large troubled companies on the internet.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

A Neurotic Jew posted:

- There are multiple third-party reports of the FCA paying CIG a visit in the UK.

That's a big deal.

Right then, goons. Who are the Financial Services Conduct Authority and why should we care?

They're the British government's financial regulator. They handle financial markets, accredit investment businesses, watch over banks and so on. Basically the equivalent of the SEC. They are very serious business indeed, and any sane business will shudder a little at the thought of a FCA visit unless they're a major multinational. CIG are not a major multinational.

So apparently they've "visited" CIG UK. What does that mean? Quite a lot, actually. The FCA investigative manual is a public domain document, and their entire procedure is online here:

https://www.fca.org.uk/static/documents/enforcement-information-guide.pdf

It sounds like they've at least opened an investigation.

It also has some other very important knock-on effects. The first is that it indicates the UK authorities are (currently) considering CIG to be a financial services entity. That could potentially bring CIG UK into the jurisdiction of a bunch of other consumer and industry bodies, particularly the Financial Services Ombudsman. In that case any UK backer could appeal a closed refund request to the FSO, which could get very interesting very quickly.

This is a genuine ELE if the FCA decide to formally prosecute, or issue indictments.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Yeah, isn't that the equivalent of the FCC or the IRS knocking on your door in the US?

Yep. We don't know why they opened an investigation - there's been some unconfirmed speculation about non-payment of VAT - but it sounds like an investigation has been formally launched.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Variable 5 posted:

Are you sure? I distinctly remember talk a while back of CIG being late on a bunch of tax filings in the UK that would potentially cause problems. Am I conflating things here?

That alone wouldn't be enough to get the FCA involved. The worst that overdue accounts can get you is to have your company wound up by Companies House. While that would be hilarious (all that unearned income would have to be returned to the backers, for a start), CH are pretty mellow. CIG would really have to try to get Companies House to start enforcement procedures. FCA is a whole other ballgame.

Smart's blog entry also mentions that CIG UK doesn't appear on the published list of companies currently claiming the UK's games industry tax incentives. That's also interesting. For one thing, those tax incentives were the whole reason Erin supposedly operated in the UK - why didn't they claim them? If they did claim them, why haven't they received them?

The incentives aren't just free - your game has to be vetted and checked up on by the tax authorities, and has to pass a bunch of verification checks. If CIG have failed those checks somehow, or if HMRC have pulled the tax breaks for (e.g.) failing to produce sufficient actual game to qualify, that could well have triggered a referral to the Financial Conduct Authority.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Dogstoyevsky posted:

E2: why does the link go to the FSA?

The Financial Services Authority recently changed its name to the Financial Conduct Authority.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Can our goony tentacles reach F42 and verify the FCA thing? I'm sure we can get one of our guys in but it would be best if we had an agent already embedded.

We could keep an eye on the London commercial court listings. If the FCA do make a move against CIG, their first step would be to apply there for injunctions. Those would be public hearings.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Toops posted:

gently caress hints. Does anyone have any loving EVIDENCE? Look maybe it's just me, but I require a bit more than shitizen-level fever-hype to believe something.

Toops, to seriously answer your question here, Derek talked about this in his Discord channel and added some extra details that aren't in the final blog post. It went through a couple of revisions, and I believe that is where the VAT thing came from and I was asked to comment on it. That is why I said it was unconfirmed and I don't intend to address it further unless Derek himself weighs in. I do also remember there was a hiccup with Turbulent sometime around early 2014 involving problems with paying VAT, so there's some history of CIG having trouble with accounting for VAT payments on pledges and we have grounds to at least raise our eyebrows..

We have no way of knowing what the visit was about, but the fact that there was a visit seems confirmed from several sources (admittedly currently they're all routed through Derek and his lockbin account, and I can understand if that turns people off). I do have some knowledge of the FCA and their procedures, and that kind of visit is not just a fishing trip - they don't make them unless they have an investigation open. The impact on market confidence that an FCA visit can have means that they're quite a wary organisation.

Yes, this thread has a lot of speculation and some of it is self-congratulatory. We've seen the ripple of an actual thing beneath the surface, and we know that fin is usually attached to a big and nasty species of shark. I don't blame the thread for indulging in a little hype just now.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Variable 5 posted:

What kinds of consequences are you talking about for the whistle-blower here?

In terms of criminal charges, none. In terms of "has just been exposed as snitching on rich, powerful, and ruthless people with multinational reach", lots. Usually starting with defamation and breach-of-contract lawsuits.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

spacetoaster posted:

There was an England goon a while back who was refused a refund while other people were getting them. He initiated a lawsuit.

Did we ever get an update about that?

Considering he didn't even fill out and file the paperwork properly, I'm guessing it didn't go anywhere and he doesn't want to admit it.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Scruffpuff posted:

Oldman wants nothing to do with it, recent reports are than Anderson is nearing the "Star Citizen, never heard of it" phase.

Which reports are these? We've never really confirmed it was Oldman who wanted out (he did do that doodle, after all), the thread just liked to think it was him. Anderson gave a fairly chill interview where she mocked the mocap gear and the terrible dialogue she had to utter while wearing it, but has she out-and-out distanced herself somehow?

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Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

CrazyLoon posted:

The more I read about the still faithful, the more I'm reminded of a phrase: "In their minds, half of the money they're about to get is already spent."

Where does that phrase come from, do you know? It sounds like a quote from something I can alllllmost remember.

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