Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Why do they have a display fridge.



Why is there a logo on their display fridge.

:psyduck:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

AP posted:

One guy had a space court-martial for something in one of the larger ORGS, the SUN org that had that massive fleet procedure manual I think. This possibly inspired the space court joke that's pretty tired now.
You've got me curious as what they did that they found so objectionable in a game that doesn't yet exist.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

XK posted:

Actually, if he does fully understand the tough spot he is in, and recognizes the project is hosed, and he only got himself here through delusional good intentions, I'd feel really bad for him. At least, if I were in his position, I'd have a lot of sleepless nights if I hosed up enough to find myself there.
I would feel bad and have for other crowdfunding projects that have failed through to ignorance, but the key difference here is those projects didn't try to repeatedly drain deluded fans out of thousands and thousands of dollars, over and over again.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

I thought they had all their studios, is the LA one new or are they rebuilding? And more importantly, why (as in officially why)?

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

fuzzknot posted:

Again, there's no way in hell this really has anything to do with the game. Chris and Sandi both want in the movie industry and can't get in. They could rent studio space for the game, but that wouldn't work for film making. So they say they need to build a studio for a drat space ship game, but they're going to use it instead to attempt to further their movie careers.
Is the official line really that they need to up and move everyone to LA losing who knows how many dev months and jpeg bucks because it makes it easier to mocap Gary Oldman? :psyduck:

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

fuzzknot posted:

Exactly. If that were all they needed, they'd just rent studio space somewhere for a bit.
Like in general I could somewhat understand an argument that Los Angeles is a generally good city for game development, except it doesn't work when the studio you are closing is in Austin which is arguably even better.

BigMouthSingers posted:

Does anyone know the address of the new studio? Always interested to do a google street view for kicks.

Trapezium Dave fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Nov 6, 2015

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

fuzzknot posted:

Yep. Robert Rodriguez, for instance, uses space in Austin. The only reason to build a studio of your own in LA is to make movies. Fraud fraud fraud fraud fraud. Or at the very least, unjust enrichment.
It's the "building a studio" bit that I hadn't fully understood when I read the news here last week. I thought they were consolidating the studios together and were maybe renting a new office building. But nope looking at the photos posted here they really are literally building a new studio (or at least the interiors which is still a lot more work than I expected).

It's the time cost that gets me, maybe even more than the monetary cost. Moving can easily add several months to the timetable and that's if you're moving studios within the same city. It's insane to do such a big move without a very good reason.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

What do they need in these mocap studios other than a moderate sized room with a bunch of cameras?

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

MrBadidea posted:

Can confirm. Just add a touch of "Oh god, when this implodes it stands a good chance of loving over video game crowdfunding for a while" to round it off.
This is why I'm lurking around this thread. I've got no interest in Star Citizen the game but the shockwaves when this thing goes down aren't going to be contained to just that (well that and the funding model fascinates and horrifies me).

Dapper Dan posted:

I don't think it will kill crowd funding completely, it will make it much harder for a has-been to get money without any recent success. It will also make it harder for those without a track record in crowd funding to make money.
My gut feeling is the more indie type crowdfunded games will go on much like they have, being in a somewhat different world, but I agree with what you said for the medium-to-large projects.

Basically if you're planning a crowdfunding project of any significant size, if at all possible I'd be getting it out sooner rather than later.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Dapper Dan posted:

Thinking on it, I can imagine them putting band-aids on 2.0, releasing a lovely version of SQ42 and considering their game 'released', while they continue to milk money from their backers with ships and credits and massive micro-transactions. Who will then consider themselves 'customers', thereby psychologically freeing them from the 'backer' mentality. This will allow them to spend more money, because, hey, the game is done and they are customers now! It will also alleviate any criticism that Star Citizen isn't done. It is a shipped product and it might be crap, they can use the excuse that they are always continuing to improve while keeping the same dysfunctional process they are using now, only with even less pressure to actually fix things.
I can certainly see CIG attempting that. I don't see it working though.

From what I've seen their issue at the moment is the general gaming public and in particular the media aren't really paying attention because the game is still in development and in theory, if you think of game dev being a magic box where anything can happen, it could all pull together. Once they get to an actual release though that defence is down. The only way I can see CIG scraping through this is if the gaming media just don't care, but with a $100 million crowdfunding campaign behind them it's just too juicy to ignore.

SQ42 can't just be "adequate", it needs to be AAA good and out in 2016 and from what I've seen skimming through this thread I don't see that happening.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Xaerael posted:

It's pretty scary, people are treating the 100m mark like people used to treat getting to that final level in an MMO after beating the same monsters endlessly for the past year.
This isn't an uncommon phenomenon in crowdfunding, just not with milestones with that many zeroes.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Dapper Dan posted:

The ironic thing is that CG doesn't need the gaming media anymore. Yeah it helps, but honestly there's no new blood coming in and if they are, they aren't going to be buying much. Especially when people look at what a buggy mess has come out. Its all about juicing their current audience for even more money. They can make a case to them that they're the outsiders and gaming media doesn't 'understand' them and that they're the underdogs because they are crowd funded and the publishers are just jealous of them. The Star Citizens are retarded enough to spin anything Roberts says at this point and ask for no accountability. They eat poo poo and say its pudding. Rather sad, really. Any investor, publisher and even creators would be losing their poo poo if it took 3-4 years for a pre-alpha proof of concept after nearly 100 million dollars.
That's true to an extent but milking the die-hard believers can't last for much longer, especially not if majority opinion turns hostile against the game. Running CIG is expensive, they're going to need to replace the fans who lose faith in Roberts with new money eventually or go bust.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

I can't wait to see how "overdue crowdfunded game breaks $100 million in funding" gets spun into a positive news story.

Dapper Dan posted:

I don't know, even after all this you see people maxing credit cards and going without food. With cult-like behavior, typically external pressure galvanizes rather than degrades efforts. See the amount of spite buying and the level that some are willing to wait over a decade for this thing to come out. It still kind of shocks me to see how many people are still spending money on this.
I guess they could go even more extreme on the cult aspects but that would just exacerbate the shockwave to the rest of crowdfunding further. And there simply has to be a limit to this. Eventually someone is going to die due to Star Citizen jpegs. :psyduck:

quote:

I really don't know the limit of poo poo that they'll take as this community has eaten more garbage than I thought possible, no dev on the planet would have been given the leeway Roberts has, and really for no particular reason at all.
I actually think there would be quite a few who would have, it's a flaw of the industry. Like for example the Shenmue kickstarter, which raised the highest amount for a video game at Kickstarter despite being run like crap. It's just that none of them have taken it to the absurd extreme that Star Citizen has - they all eventually turn off the funding tap because they ultimately aim to make a game.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Loiosh posted:

Would you like to name any affects that Broken Age had for crowd funding?
The bar keeps getting raised. A project like Broken Age, which was a mid-tier name designer like Schafer pitching a random game idea which he didn't know at the time, would not be nearly as successful today. Today you need to mine that nostalgia a lot stronger than Schafer did.

quote:

That's ignoring the opening of Fig and Indigogo.
Fig IMO is at high risk of being wiped out by Star Citizen's implosion if it doesn't wither before then. Indiegogo will be fine because it exists outside of games (it's older than Kickstarter).

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Loiosh posted:

2013: Games: $56.34 million
2014: Games: $89.10 million
Hang on, that's "Games" on Kickstarter, which also includes board games and miniatures. If you took those out, then it looks like funding for Star Citizen is on par or perhaps more than all other video games combined. :psyduck:

But sure, when this implodes it will have no effect on crowdfunding.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Loiosh posted:

If we're talking about 'a project like Broken Age, which was a mid-tier name designer like Schafer pitching a random game idea which he didn't know at the time,' can you name me other examples? How do we define mid-tier?
He's not for example Hideo Kojima, who probably could do exactly the same sort of vague project as Broken Age on Kickstarter and draw in the big bucks.

Loiosh posted:

That is, unless you're implying that SC is destined to fail and that inevitable failure would have an effect on crowd funding.
That is indeed exactly what I am implying. I can't point to evidence because I don't know exactly at what level is going to fail and how it will be received. It is going to have to do something though - Star Citizen is not too big to fail, but it is too big to fail silently.

Broken Age for example was listed as a "failure", and Star Citizen has already failed at the level it did (delays, broken into parts, and there is no way it won't be lacklustre in parts). And Broken Age still was released complete and met its original pitch.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Loiosh posted:

It's always interesting when I read something being declared as failure. I'm curious who declared it such.
Random people on the internet did. If there are enough of them and it's used as a reason why not to crowdfund something else then it has an effect regardless. (for the record I liked Broken Age too, although I can see what people might have an issue with in the game).

Dapper Dan posted:

Yeah, cultish personalities tend to double down. Especially for people who are socially isolated, lonely and really don't have much else going on. There's a limit, but I really have no idea what that is. I'm always astonished at what people are willing to take and how far they go to delude themselves as a psychological protection mechanism (not necessarily related to SC, just in general). It still shocks me that people are spending thousands of dollars, making their lives miserable and potentially risking their personal relationships over what amounts to be a video game. I guess I shouldn't be at this point as there have been people who literally dropped dead due to playing too much or killing each other over virtual poo poo.
I shouldn't be too surprised because it's not as if this behaviour isn't unknown with other games. It's the first I can remember where it has been this involved for a game that is yet to come out though.

It's an issue I wish the game industry as a whole took a lot more seriously, maybe at least that will come from Star Citizen (although probably not :smith:).

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Prop Wash posted:

Maybe it happened in Shenmue? I wouldn't know, I don't play bad games.
Shenmue 3s campaigns strengths were 1) It's Shenmue and 2) a shout out by Sony at E3.

The rest of the campaign was really, really bad. The fact it did as well as it did is a strong counter-point to the arguments I've been making.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Hell if we're all being clear here, that wasn't part of my point either. My point in its entirety is: the failure of a $100 million crowdfunded project is very probably going to make it harder for future crowdfunding projects. My evidence for this is: duh

I've subsequently started to doubt that, mainly because I think fans of other game devs will think "this doesn't apply to my hero!". But the sheer scale of Star Citizen can't be ignored. We haven't had a crowdfunded project like it. Even the Ouya was something like $25 million. Star Citizen dwarfs them all.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

aleksendr posted:

Has anyone considered the fact that thinking "Multi-Crew" will be fun is an illusion ?
I could see it being fun in a game designed around that, sort of like a Star Trek simulator where everyone plays their part. But you need to design each role to be fun, and that is a whole game in itself.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Milky Moor posted:

i'm a guy who did a masters at an australian university and first class honors isn't a degree - it's a result. for example, 'i got first class honors in a research paper' or 'i got first class honors in subject whatever'. i don't know why should have had to have written a thesis for it. as far as australian universities go, theses are purely in the realm of phd students.
Devil's advocate here, at my Aussie uni the science degree did in fact have a separate honours year. You either did a plain three year Bachelors of Science, or you did an extra year for honours which included babbys first research thesis.

I'm not sure about the 1A, 1B thing though; my uni and others usually split up only second class honours (2A, 2B). First class was just 1.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

ZenMaster posted:



I need more of these, where do they come from? I want to do a video of all the stolen artwork if possible... anyone have more? Thanks!
The red lady looks vaguely Mass Effect, a recoloured Miranda maybe? Although there's a lot of space stuff that looks like that.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Lonkface posted:

Yeah, inspired by the style, maybe? Hopefully not lifted.
It has to be lifted, there is no way that image is the original work of a sole cartoonist. It looks like something that would be done at a con where every artist draws themselves.

And yeah Ben is definitely based on Lar's work.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Gurzi posted:

I always liked this guy in the back. Everyone else gets futuristic metal bibs and greebls doodled on them, but not him.
I like the guy up front in the futuristic space shorts, right in front of the gal(?) with no legs.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

I only catch up on Star Citizen news every few months so I'm way out of touch but what's with the numbering scheme? How are they are near version 2.4 of anything when they are still in alpha?

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Tokamak posted:

1.0 was Arena Commander/Hanger. 2.0 is the Stanton/baby-PU released in November. They add a .1 to each monthly patch starting this year. So 2.4 is April's monthly patch, and 2.5 will come in May. The numbers don't really represent anything meaningful in reality.
Do they have a roadmap of what is going to be included at each milestone? Is release going to be a bizarrely numbered 3.0? Or is that beta, and release is 4.0?

It may be old hat to everyone else but the weird numbering seems such a blatant stamp that they don't know how they are going to get where they want to go.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Tokamak posted:

It is "Agile" development (CIG speak). They include whatever is done at a predetermined cut-off for the monthly patch (translated). Which is why they have long term visions for persistance. They have no hard deadlines, and no clue when anything will be done. What they call 3.0 or 4.0, they have been on record as saying that they have no idea.
So by monthly patch, is that "whatever the development build is at the time"? I can see why the game looks glitchier than when I dropped by months ago. :rolleyes:

They do know they have competition in the area, right? Elite: Dangerous might be niche but No Mans Sky is probably going to have some marketing muscle behind it. They might not have any internal hard deadlines but they sure are some hefty external ones imposed on them.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Kilmers Elbow posted:

Speaking of No Man's Sky I've a strong suspicion Ryan Archer designed the space ship.



:raise:
I like the art direction in No Man's Sky. :(

It's like it's lifted from classic colourful sci-fi novel covers, rather than Star Citizen's lifting from the most common denominator of sci-fi games.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

My list is different:


i am harry posted:

This is an X-Wing with the top wings removed. :shobon:
I think you mean a Z-95 Headhunter.
:goonsay:

Trapezium Dave fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Mar 31, 2016

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

[Captain Thomas Wade]: "All officers want to believe that every soldier under their command will come home at the end of the tour. But we live in violent times. And life...Life doesn't always uphold such promises. So it's important that we honour those who can't go home. That we remember them, that we say goodbye."
[Captain Thomas Wade]: "Words for the fallen should be spoken by friends. So I've asked Lt. Commander Colton to say a few words."
[Steve Colton]: "I've been to enough of these things to know that I'm supposed to try to make sense of this tragedy. Tosay that their deaths mattered."
[Steve Colton]: "I won't. It was their lives that mattered."

:patriot:


Is this the bulk of the script? There's about a billion different characters and they're all identical.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

I've skim-read the whole thing and I don't know what's going on at all. Is the cliffhanger in the last mission going to be the start of the plot?

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

WarpedLichen posted:

Why would multiple characters say the same generic line:
[Tech 02]: "@Dlg_SC_ac_tanto_generic_response_yes_0300"
[Woodrow Tannen]: "@Dlg_SC_ac_tanto_generic_response_yes_0300"
[Sophia Kelly]: "@Dlg_SC_ac_tanto_generic_response_yes_0300"
[Claude Desaily]: "@Dlg_SC_ac_tanto_generic_response_yes_0300"
[Lars Neuer]: "@Dlg_SC_ac_tanto_generic_response_yes_0300"
[Conrad Vex]: "@Dlg_SC_ac_tanto_generic_response_yes_0300"
[Steve Colton]: "@Dlg_SC_ac_tanto_generic_response_yes_0300"
I hope you get to pick your own custom affirmative lines.

[Mark Hamill] Righteous! *plays air guitar*

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

The main antagonist I've found so far has one line and he/she/it(???) is offscreen at the time.

How far apart are they planning on releasing SQ42 episodes? This doesn't feel like an episodic script, and it feels like they are planning on ending episode one right when the story properly begins.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

moveable shape posted:

Seriously though I think what we've heard is the first episode has 5 parts. Yeah. They are gonna mission pack the bejesus out of this because they cannot survive without that cash flow
Wait, this is just Act I Scene I, pay for each individually? How have they convinced anyone that this is going work?

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Skellybones posted:

Correct me if I'm wrong but in just about any group project managing software you can see what was submitted, when, what was added/removed/changed, and by who. I'm most familiar with GitHub and Subversion and they both have those features. I can click on a file and see its whole history and even revert to an ancient version of it.

What are the chances that CIGs process is so hosed that nobody actually knows who submitted what into each release? That someone could put SQUADRON_42.docx in and be completely anonymous?
The thing is that - assuming it's not a subtle April Fool's joke - that file looks like it's an actual work document for Squadron 42, so it's something that should be under version control. I could easily see someone accidentally including it in the wrong release or failing to scrub it from a build.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Berious posted:

OK it seems petty to nitpick this pile of dung but doesn't a commanding officer saying Dismissed mean you shut up and gently caress off now? Why do they keep talking?
There is probably a break in there or a decision tree or something. It reads like a data file for the engine, not a script for humans.

For example there's this bit which is obviously a player choice:

[Captain Noah White]: "Tell me about yourself. Do you have family?"
[Player]: "@Dlg_SC_ac_spitfire_generic_response_yes_0300"
[Player]: "I do not, sir."
[Captain Noah White]: "That's good."
[Captain Noah White]: "There's time."

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

ShineDog posted:

Probably 4. Remember though that all wrong commanders are actually very poor mechanically compared to their space game peers. The standout element was being in a sci fi movie, and we've no shortage of fully acted and immersive sci fi games now.
I'm curious as I only played the X-Wing series back then, but what did the Wing Commander series do wrong mechanically at the time? Were they just clunkier or were there more fundamental issues?

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

trucutru posted:

It was just a very, very simple arcade-like game. Go there, pew-pew (seriously pew-pew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlokYOPAa0o) n amount of lovely-AI enemies, repeat.
Yeah I just looked at a video of the original Wing Commander and unsurprisingly it's obvious they put all the effort in the cutscenes.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Every Wing Commander video has comments like this:

quote:

Jesus, it's unbelievable such a game could ever come out as early as 1990... Wing Commander truly is the Star Citizen of Golden Age of Gaming.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012

Jonny Nox posted:

They are on gog.com. Get them there DRM free.
GOG's version of Tie Fighter also includes the 1995 CD-ROM special edition, which Steam doesn't. The 1998 Windows remastered version doesn't have the iMuse dynamic music.

  • Locked thread