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G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
Reposting this Effort Post from March in light of the new ToS for 2.4.

"CIG is Widening the Doors and Blocking the Exits"

G0RF posted:

One of the biggest unknowns right now is CIG's cash position. We've heard they're flush with cash (EightAce) and that they're nearly out (Derek).

We have no line of sight into this matter-- only gossip, and the gossip is contrary.

What we do have-- imperfect as it is-- is a possible means of gauging revenue via their Stretch Goals tracker. And we've watched that pretty closely for a long time-- trying to make guesses about any emerging trends, wondering when we might see capitulation, curious about whether splitting their IP into two sellable assets would be accretive or destructive.

We've also made guesses, Beer most specifically I think, about monthly overhead costs for the entire operation(s). It's hard to believe it's less than $100k a day (~$3M a month).

Recent sales have been lackluster to alarming. Demand refuses to be sustained over the durations of past glory sales. Even without elective spending on $15,000 coffee machines, upgraded international airfare, and new MoCap shoots (already rumored to be running at 12x their original budget) -- CIG may be entering a time of relative famine.

This is why the question of "How much cash do they have?" is especially interesting. Because if they're running on empty, then a bankruptcy or distressed sale is potentially right around the corner. If they're fat with some unknown investor cash, then some shortfall months don't really matter.

We are seeing more and more circumstantial evidence that CIG is widening the doors and blocking the exits. Refunds are denied as a matter of policy when once they were accommodated quickly. The change -- which had no official explanation beyond "sorry no more refunds read your ToS" -- suggests some degree of concern about husbanding cash.

Now-- we also know that, as of the beginning of the year, CIG had NO ROADMAP at all for PTU development. None. They admitted as much on AtV-- happily, in fact. As if that was entirely commonplace as opposed to a warning sign. It IS commonplace at CIG but atypical elsewhere. Then we heard rumors (from Derek and EightAce) that they'd devised their new development priorities after a big confab with senior management. And the order of the day? Making in game asset sales a reality ASAP. Yet back ended by what? Earnable credits? Or actual credit cards (as with their web based means of selling).

Now-- looking at the "unmelt" token policy in particular, it too is very telling. CIG claimed that, for technical reasons, they had to greatly limit the supply and not allow them to be accrued over time. What this really means is quite obvious-- if they granted backers easy means to melt/unmelt they would be potentially damaging the sale of new ships to those same backers.

They are giving more and more signs that they need to restrict their users and plan to continue doing so. What makes matters worse for the backers is that, over the last half of last year, they effectively poisoned the gray market as an outside means of true liquidity. Formerly exclusive ships might've commanded a high price on the traders market- but CIG reintroduced many and thus flooded supply and destroyed demand. Similar gambits took place with LTI.

What is very telling in all of this is that it is so bloody ad hoc. They are making things up as they go-- everywhere-- and this tells us probably that all their thinking is tactical (if that). It's in response to changing conditions on the ground.

If capitulation is really here, and cash is really low, then we are going to see more and more obvious signs of it from a panicked CIG. And if the gambits they devise over panicked meetings don't work, then we will start seeing telltale signs of cash panics. Major cost cutting / office shut downs / layoffs.

All that said-- we still do not know what their cash situation is. To hear Chris and Erin talk, they haven't a care in the world's they e got time to spare. There is not sword ranging over their heads.

Sorry this was rambly but I'm in a hurry and on a phone. This is just meant to help you understand why these little signs-- like stores EVERYWHERE in game as the latest reveal-- might be telling us something. "Alpha UEC" is telling us something (because it will not be permanent).

It seems like they're telling us -- and backers -- quite a bit. And it's good news for people that like bad news.

G0RF fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jun 11, 2016

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G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
This seems to me an especially provocative move on CIG's part. The terms of the TOS are rapacious as they are insulting. Putting aside the legal prerogatives asserted, this must also be read as a message. And that message stands as a damning mockery of "The Pledge".

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/the-pledge

Chris Roberts: The Pledge posted:

You’ve pledged your money to earn your Citizenship.

Now it’s our turn.

We, the Star Citizen team at Cloud Imperium, hereby promise to deliver the game you expect. You, the tens of thousands of pledgers, have allowed us to cut out the big publisher and build the game on our terms. To let us focus on quality free of the pressure to deliver by a certain financial quarter. To nurture a new original IP. To put fun ahead of shareholder profits.

We, the Developer, intend to treat you with the same respect we would give a publisher. You will receive regular updates about the progress of the game. We will do a show and tell for each major milestone. Your voice will be heard and represented in our development docs and our feature wish list. You will see art and video and learn about how we intend to implement gameplay mechanics well before the rest of the world. The website will be updated and the community will be maintained. Though the limitations of technology may slow us, we will always do the best for you: if it breaks, we will fix it.

There may be delays and there may be changes; we recognize that such things are inevitable and would be lying to you if we claimed otherwise. But when this happens, we will treat you with the respect you deserve rather than spending your money on public relations. When we need to change a mechanic or alter something you believe should be in the game, we will tell you exactly why.

Your support over the past month has been incredible. You’ve done your part, and we will now do our utmost to live up to your expectations. We will build you the game you are dreaming about.

Signed,
Chris Roberts and the Cloud Imperium Team

G0RF fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Jun 11, 2016

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

ManofManyAliases posted:

The Dragonfly will likely be flyable this year. The Drake pipeline has been completed so we're going to see the Caterpillar this year as well.
This is the best meta-troll I have seen in ages!
:sandance: :sandance: :sandance: :sandance: :sandance:

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
This is pretty on the nose - and I posted it once months ago - but it just seems too perfect in light of the 2.4 TOS...

The Beasties Boys posted:


SABO:pgabz:AGE

I can't stand it I know you planned it
But I'm gonna set it straight, this Watergate
I can't stand rocking when I'm in here
Because your crystal ball ain't so crystal clear
So while you sit back and wonder why
I got this loving thorn in my side
Oh my gawd, it's a mirage
I'm tellin' y'all it's a sabotage

So listen up 'cause you can't say nothin'
You'll shut me down with a push of your button?
But I'm out and I'm gone
I'll tell you now I keep it on and on
'Cause what you see you might not get
And we can bet so don't you get souped yet
You're scheming on a thing that's a mirage
I'm trying to tell you now it's sabotage

Why; our backs are now against the wall

Listen all of y'all it's a sabotage
Listen all of y'all it's a sabotage
Listen all of y'all it's a sabotage
Listen all of y'all it's a sabotage

I can't stand it, I know you planned it
But I'm gonna set it straight this Watergate
I can't stand rockin' when I'm in this place
Because I feel disgrace because you're all in my face
But make no mistakes and switch up my channel
I'm Buddy Rich when I fly off the handle
What could it be, it's a mirage
You're scheming on a thing, that's sabotage!

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

A Neurotic Jew posted:

imagine hating consumers so much that you wrote this ToS.

Just imagine.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

flyboi posted:

But seriously though I'm gonna GORF post for a second although not as long as a GORF post.

(:words: I agree with removed)

My prediction? SQ42 chapter 1 will happen whenever, they'll continue with these bullshit "patches" on the PTU and eventually do a hand wave and proclaim the PTU is complete, bugs and all. CIG is setting up everything so they can get the shittiest turd out the door to meet legal expectations while keeping all the cash these idiots are shoveling to them.
I like a lot of what you wrote -- and, in the spirit of a good effort post, I'm offering one in reply. I wish I could drop in pics easily and do this right but I'm writing it hastily on a phone...

-----

What to Do About Squadron 42?

If we assume the Stretch Goal pledge tracker is accurate, we already see signs of capitulation in a formerly bullish backer base. Given their headcount, they surely have a seven figure monthly burn. And we don't even know what the monthly outflows are for chargebacks.

The rapacious new ToS, combined with PayPal's end of refunds on crowdfunding at the end of the month, heightens the risk considerably of a run on the chargebank bank. It's so provocative I still find it hard to believe CIG released it.

Nobody knows whether CIG has $50M in the bank or $5M. What we DO know and predicted -- what must be obvious now to Chris & Co -- is that Squadron 42 is not their golden goose. In fact, it looks more and more like a black hole. Chris the Director and Sandi the Actress want it so much more than the market does-- yet how can a $60 PC-only title hope to produce a meaningful return next to the game that sells the promise of "a living breathing universe" so it can sell IOUs for highly fidelitous spaceships for prices as low as $30 and high as $2500? Backers haven't yet understood (and CIG hasn't yet admitted) that the impetus driving persistence is further monetization, with AlphaUEC the spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down.

We've seen so many troubling warning signs for Squadron 42. The uncanny valley Admiral Bishop speech had even loyal backers offering helpful suggestions for reshoots (!!!). The Morrow Tour preview was, in hindsight, a bigger mistake -- seeing as it gave the impression the film, er game, features talking mannequins with photoluminescent teeth who clip through doors and even each other as they spend small dull eternities monologuing at the player yet staring at an empty chair two seats away.

The hubris only further reinforces the delusory disconnect on display, with CIG's John Schimmel claiming the game "will kick other games in the rear end!" on an official CIG promo video.

It is easy to assume -- and many have -- that the single player game should be a cakewalk. Unburdened as it is with netcode considerations, how hard could it really be? Indeed, Chris has made this very game before several times over his career. Yet the genre he helped popularize -- branching narrative cinematic dogfighting adventures in space -- are not what they used to be. The game is the same, it just got more fierce-- and now Squadron 42 will be up against the very AAA franchise he once claimed his FPS would equal or exceed.



IGN posted:

As divisive as the Call of Duty franchise is every year, Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare actually has a lot working in its favor. For starters, since the last IW-developed CoD, the studio has picked up some new blood, including a pair of former Naughty Dog designers, Jacob Minkoff (Design Director) and Taylor Kurosaki (Narrative Director) whose works include the Uncharted series and The Last of Us.

Secondly, Infinite Warfare will take place throughout our solar system and include new customizable vehicles for dog fighting, alongside non-linear side missions in its campaign. All that to say we’re looking at a hugely ambitious kind of Call of Duty campaign experience that could be something really special. Plus, more zombies, probably in space. Space zombies.

(Oh, and it doesn't just have zombies, and it's got Jon Snow as the bad guy.)

The trailer for the game may have proven wildly unpopular but this is a title that will sell 13M copies of it's a failure. It's likely to be a lot of fun-- both its single player and (unlike Squadron 42) multiplayer forms. It's shipping THIS November -- for PC and consoles. It started later and it's already all but done -- before Squadron 42 has shown even a hint of real gameplay, before a vertical slice has been seen by anyone, before the mo-cap has finished, before the game has gotten past the Alpha stage.

Why am I saying all this? I guess because, more and more, I just find myself questioning the business case for Squadron 42 entirely. It could've been easy -- it should've been easy -- yet Easy left town in 2015, Hard came to replace him in 2016, and Impossible is taking his place next year. And he's not going away.

Chris is going to have to make a hard, hard choice here. To commit fully to Squadron 42's completion probably means throwing bad money after worse. If cash grows harder and harder to come by, and the competition delivers something impossible to beat, the money he spends to complete it will come at the expense of the vehicle that flew him so very, very high. The one that most of his financiers wanted. The one that offers him the better chance of continued employment.

If they aren't yet doing the cost/benefit analysis on completion of it, somebody needs to-- STAT. And if cash reserves are precious, it's probably time to kill it, or at the very least, put it in long term storage.

A Possible Silver Lining:

The PS4.5 and Xbox Scorpio will be coming to us by 2017 (I think) and perhaps with some elbow grease and pared down ambitions, Squadron 42 could be retooled for these new fidelitous console platforms and have an easier time recouping its huge expense. If cash permits if, I think Chris should turn complete control over the completion of the project to a Pro (maybe spinning off a seperate dev studio) and get the hell out of their way, with the mandate "Done is right."

-----

(These are just my opinions-- many of them speculative. As always, I could be wrong.)

G0RF fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jun 11, 2016

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

ManofManyAliases posted:

If it comes out right - great. If not, I'm sure people will get over it.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

XK posted:

When Derek told us most of the resources were being diverted, many of us said it seemed like a really bad idea. SC was clearly the cash cow, and what everybody wanted. Now, after throwing 6 months of front burner development into the SQ42 black hole, the whole project looks like it needs to be tossed, including all that expensive mocap. To release SQ42 at this point would be more embarrassing than not releasing it. And now SC has fallen even farther behind, and for what?

CIG just telegraphed their total collapse with this ToS.

That's what strikes me-- the optics are so provocative.

I understand why they'd want to do this -- but not why they'd choose to do it.

G0RF fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Jun 11, 2016

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
FILE UNDER: The Industry Strikes Back



Skipping E3 was no big deal, though. It's just a little industry thing-- consumers hardly pay attention to it. In fact, now might be a good time to start asking whether CIG should just skip Squadron 42 altogether.

It's just too late.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Streetroller posted:

Bear in mind, $3k was dropped over the course of 3/4 years, including subscriptions and buying various ships.
I was expecting a fulled supported VR interface, to be honest.

Before anyone tells me how much of an idiot I was or that I should have known, etc. I was always under the impression that SQ42 would release this year.
It was in their original tos, on their trailers, etc...

I've never logged into the game once, because I was not ever interested in testing the Alpha. It wouldn't have even been possible because I need to be able to key rebind to play games.
I have a disability that has progressively made it more difficult to game over the years, and I was excited about the idea of using Oculus to play (It was advertised as being accessible day 1)
I was extremely disappointed to hear that they essentially dropped it, but even that wasn't enough to put me off. I understand things take time.

I still would be backing if I hadn't read the tos changes on Reddit. Anyone with some basic law-crafting will know how absolutely shocking it is.

I've never paid much attention to Derek, he's too abrasive for me. My "descent" originally began when Chris wrote that awful letter to Escapist..
Finding out concierge was being labeled with inflammatory names, the blatant plagiarism...

Derek did none of those things. That was all CIG.

You've seen the folly of your ways and found your way here. Too many folks here have been in your shoes for stones to start flying. It's the obvious shills and devout believers that draw the most fire...

Have you avoided 2.4? Are you looking at chargeback options? What's your gameplan going forward. There are some pretty smart folks here and we can save you some trouble if you're looking for advice, pointers, etc.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

XK posted:

I'm interested on the bets of whether they are going to have a slow collapse, or an instant implosion where the employees get locked out and their paychecks bounce. I'm leaning toward the instant implosion scenario.

Waves of metronomic explosions over the next 6 - 9 months that reduce them from presumptive King of the Space Game Market to a Beggar Prince in exile.

External impacts include the overdue turn of the Gaming Press, the stealing of mind and marketshare by AAA competitors, possible backer lawsuits, etc.

Internal impacts include more high profile departures, massive reduction in headcount to reduce cash burn, continued difficulties overcoming the myriad limitations of StarEngine, etc.

CIG has stubbornly refused to diversify their income streams and remains hopelessly addicted to spacepixel concept sales as their lifeblood. This worked fantastically in the early years yet they just can't hit those same highs anymore, yet now the true price of their epic binges is coming due.

Put differently...

Chris and Sandi led hundreds of thousands through the Wilderness, coaxing fortunes from them along the way with tales of The Promised Land ahead. Such wonderous takes-- a land flowing with milk and honey, always right around the next bend!

Yet now they stand before an unclimbable mountain of engineering debt. They lack the skills and tools to conquer it. Their only choice is to call the land where they now stand the new Promised Land. There's no milk, there's no honey. The only thing they have to eat are bugs-- so many bugs!

Those who can live with that will stick around, I guess. But most will just take a $60 helicopter ride out to someone else's Promised Land. And they'll get there.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

ManofManyAliases posted:

Nope - and I won't. Having fun outside at the moment, but I'll be on 2.4 live later for some spaceship fun

Yeah don't bet on that Moma...

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
Whoo-boy!

A Concerned Citizen posted:


Preemptive apology about bad grammar.

EDIT: THIS IS MORE THAN JUST A COMPLAINT ABOUT RELEASE TIME.

I backed it quite a while ago and back then had a gtx 770. The game was pretty laggy on it and the motion blur made me sick. All I could do was dick around in a couple hubs and look at my ship in the hanger. I come back a year and a half later with a gtx 970 and not too much has changed.

For a game that promises the universe it's funny that the actual additions are so few. I find myself on the website and am literally being sold some upgrade, some package, some ship- nonstop. I read about how the game was supposed to be done by 2014 but then feature creep kicked in.

I read about the Cryengine being used and find out that it's not so good at creating huge seamless areas. It's also not really good at handling multiple connections so mmo style worlds are very difficult; likely for a project this size a whole new engine would actually need to be created in order to avoid the inherent limitations of the cry engine, that buggyness on my 970 is because the CryEngine can't handle the uber-multiplayer, it's the wrong tool for the job. As an example look at this list of CryEngine games: What do you notice about their nature? Unless, of course the goal is to keep creating shiny assets in the CryEngine creator to sell to backers for hundreds of dollars, again, it's not really the right engine given the goal.

These assets sold to players raise other questions: How will these items be balanced? Will the game just start with some players having OP items or will players that paid thousands of dollars get angry at the revelation that their spending offers no real advantage?

I look at the original kickstarter page and find non-stop comments from angry individuals that the game is failing to deliver, has become a money sucking entity and is missing deadline after deadline. Many want their money back, but you see pledging doesn't offer individuals the same legal protections that investors have. All early backers get is hype and small additions drip fed to them without a real deadline or clear route to success.

Graphically the game is good but then again Star wars battlefront came out this year. The game play is casual but graphically it is amazing. Dare I say, better than star citizen? hell I get 70fps with the mod on. From a conceptual point of view techniques like photogrammetry make it easier to make a game today than than it did 2 years ago. In a way Star citizen is trying to be a game of the future but with the technology of today. Games that set reasonable deadlines that they force themselves to commit to get somewhere before ending up in development hell. You see, ambition isn't a bad thing, but we can't forget that time keeps flowing and technology keeps evolving: Time will be spent, effort will be made and ultimately we will find that new technology has come out and everything needs to be re-done. New cards will come out, new engines, new operating systems will be released and they will all require much code to be re-written, re-optimized, re-patched.The spaghetti will grow.

In addition to that, in the further channels I read reports of heavy levels of censorship in star citizens forums. People asking about deadlines, progress, or anything really related to getting something serious done, towards final goals or to certain questions referring towards allocation of funding are generally swept under the rug. Only posts about 'Ohh shiny' or 'I'm new, how do I do this' or general nerding about are allowed. This is what really frightens me, when organizations have something to hide, you got your MLM's like amway, Scientology, and North Koreas. You know something is off; something is wrong. There is an illusion being created for all those that are within but ultimately they are the ones being hosed over.

You see when games normally develop you work on the core first, you make the world and you use placeholder models and ships and guns so that you know that functionally the game is fine. This is backwards development, I'm not sure this is viable, unless hype is actually the product.

Reading about the history of the creator I find that he has a bit of a tendency to over promise, give grand dreams and ultimately, not deliver. Riding on past successes. He's got that enigmatic L.Ron Hubbard personality that knows what his audience wants to hear and thats what he gives. This game will not be a failure, no, not for Chris Roberts, he's already sold it and made the money there very little legal obligation to actually succeed.

Remember that essay or project in school or college that you had to write and you spent all your time planning it and coming up with cool ideas but ultimately ran out of time and turned in a last minute, hurried up C grade effort? Your heart was in the right place but without discipline, foresight , and reasonable goals it kinda didn't work out too well.

TLDR:

* The website is pretty much all micro transactions
* CryEngine is not really viable for the scope and MMO nature
* Game balance is a concern with players purchasing thousand dollar ships
* Kickstarter comments show massive evidence of disgruntled backers
* Graphically the game is becoming outpaced by other games because technology continues and evolves as production methods become more efficient
* StarCitizen's forums are heavily censored against 'dissident comments' reminiscent of MLM's, scientology etc.
* Development appears to be backwards
* Creator has a personality cult and a history of over promising and under delivering

TLDR the TLDR: | development hell | microtransactions | Censorship | Wrong engine | Personality cult | Fundamentally issues with Core model


Emotional outro: I don't want this game to fail, it's like watching a failing relationship. You want it to work but you know when it's time to leave it alone and just sort of hope it fixes its poo poo sometime in the future, you highly doubt it but you kinda want it to so you just leave it alone.

Final note: Again I have bad grammar, sorry. Pm me my mistakes and I will update?

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Ohtsam posted:

The new TOS is making neogaf turn on the game in a big way

"I'm glad of it..."
|
:eonwe:

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

VIve Owner posted:


"Without HTC Vive Support, Star Citizen has kind of dropped off my radar

Hi everyone, long time follower of SC, first time contributor to this subreddit.

The HTC Vive has turned my gaming world upside down (in the best way imaginable). I'm not going to bleat on about how amazing it is, I'm sure you've all read enough of that but I just wanted to say that VR has really taken the shine of monitor based gaming for me.

I believe there is supposed to be some kind of VR support for SC (seen some oculus dev kits being used but since then I haven't seen any real evidence of dedicated resource being applied (am I wrong here)? And I've seen no mention at all about support for the Vive and roomscale vr in SC.

After playing Elite in VR and experiencing the share scale and immersion it brings, especially with roomscale (being able to get up literally "walk" around the cockpit), my excitement for the Star Citizen release has diminished markedly.

Can anyone give some idea of what is really happening with VR support for SC?"

Why yes, intrepid futurist, Star Citizen will never be VR compatible.

Sorry Chris doesn't have the heart to tell you that in person-- he hates to disappoint almost as much as he loves to over-promise. Which, incidentally, is why he still won't admit Squadron 42 isn't coming out this year...

Maybe next year-- if you're lucky...

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
FILE UNDER: "Oops, we forgot to put Fun in the game..."

https://m.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4nq9dg/is_it_just_me/

Is it just me posted:

"Is it just me that's having trouble finding fun on 2.4? I was so hyped and it just doesn't seem very good at all."

Guy who spent $500+ on spaceships posted:

"If I had above 20 fps I'd enjoy it....

I need a new CPU. That I5-4690K isn't cutting it."

No it's not just you posted:

"Yeap, I have this every patch. The progress is so slow. In big lines, the difference between now and 6 months ago is very small. It's kinda worrying to be honest, it looks like they can't get the fundamentals stable and well performing."

"It's not fun, it's [i posted:

IMPORTANT[/i]"]
I don't think many of the new features are necessarily "fun" features. Shopping, loadout persistence, earning aUEC from missions, and paying for repairs are, of course, all extremely necessary parts of the game even if they are not fun in isolation.

Personally I enjoy the ICC probe missions and exploring, which are still basically the same."

G0RF fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jun 12, 2016

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
BLUES NEWS: Star Citizen Alpha 2.4

quote:

20 minutes for the SHIP to respawn if your ship gets destroyed. As you may know there is hull insurance on your ship and this mechanic is supposed to simulate that the insurance company can not and will not simply be able to restore a ship on the spot. At least not all of them. You can instantly get back an Aurora starter ship but you will have to wait some time if one of your fancier, bigger, rarer ships gets blown up from under your rear end.

If you only own a bigger ship and have to wait a couple hours (or days, weeks, months, years... final waiting times for specific ships are unknown) in the final game you will have the opportunity to rent a ship or fly for hire so you're not totally out of the game.

So this 20 minute wait time in this latest alpha is nothing out of the ordinary on principle. With that said and considering the very sad, buggy, broken, messed up state that the game is in it is entirely dumbfucking stupid of CIG to put in this mechanic at this time. It is becoming clearer every day that the game is made by fucktards.

Why would you enforce a 20 minute respawn wait time when the game is still in early alpha at best? How about instead giving people the opportunity to actually, you know, fly their ships and test poo poo instead of waiting for a respawn (the mechanic to rent a replacement or fly for hire is not yet in the game, of course)?

Even a three year old would realize that it is the dumbest idea of the millennium to put in a half-assed mechanic that just annoys the living gently caress out of people.

Oh well. Looking on the bright side, maybe more people will now wake up and realize what an entirely incompetent bunch of halfwit monkeys is working at CIG.

And, yeah, great job changing the TOS and launching the latest alpha with more ways to make cash LOL. What a bunch of greedy shitclowns.

Comments on this one are interesting. Still some zealous defenders but they're getting demolished.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
STATE OF THE GAME:





G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

BigglesSWE posted:

Mass Effect: Andromeda looks like it could swipe SC from the public interest in one fell swoop.

G0RF fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jun 12, 2016

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Hillary Clintons Thong posted:

someone add mass effect Andromeda to that graph they always pull out, make sure to say its development started in like 1998 though, gotta make SC look good.

edit: or are they gonna go with the "console trash" argument :allears:



This one is far more informative than theirs.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Lazrin posted:

held up? gorf promised the big reveal, the show that would wipe star citizen off the map

and then nothing
Well, to be fair, Star Citizen is being wiped off the map by Chris Roberts-- a point I have belabored for quite some time.

But it's a fair point if you're mad at me because you're disappointed by the EA conference reveal. I did want and hope to see more, given the Shinobi602 play tester details that made such "hey" on Neogaf. (There's supposedly more coming tomorrow on Youtube's live channel but we'll see what that really looks like then.) He's been right on some things, off on others. If the vertical slice he played, and the 10 minute presentation he outlined doesn't show up during the course of E3, it'll be a letdown. It's a safe bet, still, that Andromeda is coming out next year and Star Citizen is still in pre-alpha. One will move millions of units. I'll let you guess which one that is.

As I think you probably know, even if you took away every AAA game coming out in the next 9 months, CIG is sending unambiguous signals that both their games are officially "Troubled Projects", on the order of Daikatana and Duke Nukem Forever.

Revenues are in free fall, nobody is playing their game (even when they offer it for free), Star Citizen's codebase is resisting their attempts to de-crapify it. Formerly excited discussion communities are turning hostile, more backers are seeking chargebacks, their toxic community has metastasized and driven away many who asked questions or expressed frustrations about delays or dishonest communications from CIG. Squadron 42 seems very certain to miss yet another release date this fall, even while seeing one of the most successful AAA franchises in their world releasing a space dogfighter / FPS adventure with a big Hollywood cast and both single and multiplayer options.

Lazrin posted:

i'm waiting to hear more bluster to explain why his previous bluster was pulled out of his rear end

this isn't about cig, this is about what gorf promised and making sure you're all aware what a broken poser he is



Everything's relative, man.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Inkel posted:

This is starting to sound awfully familiar to whoever that idiot was thousands of pages ago who kept going on about Derek Smart and stole goon valor.

If it's STIMSIS, now he knows why I keep resisting his nomination to replace Derek as OP!

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Danakir posted:

That's just, like, your opinion man. (Never stop posting in this thread, please)

Thanks man!

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Lazrin posted:

i'm waiting to hear more bluster to explain why his previous bluster was pulled out of his rear end

this isn't about cig, this is about what gorf promised and making sure you're all aware what a broken poser he is



You do have to admit-- this looks pretty cool, Lazrin. Can we agree on that much?

peter gabriel posted:

I'm pulling this out of my rear end on behalf of Gorf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qchQnNXePdY

Oh man, I'm as touched as I am terrified!

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Inkel posted:

G0RF, why didn't you predict this amazing gameplay footage that CIG showed at E3 and blew everyone away? You are a loving poser and everyone knows it.

It's true!

G0RF fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jun 13, 2016

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Lazrin posted:

it does indeed. but I'm just trying to temper the false alarms because they don't automatically mean 'bad' for cig and are hype in and of themselves. cig is doing that on they're own so i'm not even sure why anyone in this thread needs to somehow thump the chest of another project

I love Space Games, man-- I talk about them a lot. I

As to why they are germane in a Star Citizen conversation... Chris has more money for his game dev budgets than any AAA studio with titles in production. A lot more. And he and his talk shite about competitors and have declared parity with or superiority to some of the best studios in the world.

Such as when John Schimmel said Squadron 42 was going to "kick other games in the rear end", or when Chris said nobody could catch up with CIG now except maybe Rockstar. If it were true, it'd be tacky to be so bold. That it is obviously not invites derision.

Chris invites comparisons, despite the fact that, outside of the Dice Battlefield / Call of Duty rivalry, most game studios make a habit of NOT talking about their competition. They play each other's games, learn from them, and might end up working with teams at those studios down the road. Comity, man, as opposed to shittalk, is just how a nerdy industry like the VG world rolls.

If Chris and Sandi weren't so arrogant about everything I would think it rather distasteful to make too much noise about competitive threats. If they were humble, nice, thrifty studio leaders who were really struggling making their grand ambition come to light, I'd feel some empathy. I'd be readying the "At Least They Tried Narrative" in the event of their failure - whether at their own hands or from competitors.

Instead, it seems appropriate to size up the various competitive offerings coming out this year and next. Star Citizen, with $115M is game dev budget, will be expected to match AAA title quality from the big guys. And to soundly beat the indies like No Man's Sky, etc.

Right?

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

no_recall posted:

Here's how I think the funding vs dev played out.

10m - 5m spent - spaceship ads, hangar in the making,
30m - 15m spent - hangar demo, AC tech in the making, spaceship ads
50m - 30m spent - hangar demo, AC demo, AC MP in the making, Star Marine commissioned, parp ball commissioned, spaceship ads
60m - 40m spent - hangar demo, ac MP, SM demo, Parpball in the making, spaceship ads
80m - 60m spent - hangar demo, ac mp/sp, SM / parpball ready - prep for code merge, spaceship ads
100m - 90m spent - hangar demo, ac mp/sp, 64 bits, SM / Parpball shafted, spaceship ads
115m - 100m spent - hangar demo, ac demo, persistent crysis mod with workable SM assets, spaceship ads

Well there's a lot of luxury items not included in this list but otherwise, yeah!

quote:

Worth noting is that at every funding milestone, CIG could've taken out a loan based on "revenue earned" from banks. Banks love giving loans, as long as CIG proved themselves to have a revenue stream and could pay interest. So, technically they might've pockets 115m in cold hard cash, and running on deficits. Right uncle derek?
I think external funding via debt instruments is quite plausible. Yet we're seeing signs that they are growing more sensitive to cost-- such as Tyler's discussion about bandwidth / Evocati, Ben's discussions of being smart about spending money at Gamescom, etc.

They may have modeled steady state spacepixel revenues for this year and are now responding appropriately to the unexpected shortfalls. They are definitely burning cash now. We'll know how much cash they have left by how urgently and deeply they trim in response...

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

AP posted:

I've been on the internet a long while now and in my opinion Gorf is a funny and intelligent guy who makes the world a better place, while in the short time I've spent reading your whine I'm being to suspect you're a complete arsehole.

How much you in for chief? Most Citizens have to launch the game to find their head up someones arse.

This is for AP and all:

I am genuinely moved by all the kind words and / defenses people wrote in reply. I didn't take any offense at what he wrote, it felt so much like the STIMSIS shtick I was laughing at each post. I was really floored by the glimpses of an exploration heavy reboot but yeah, I wanted more more more too. I did expect more and he had the right to be disappointed by the day 1 reveal (if he is seriously chuffed about it then :lol: -- more will certainly be coming soon enough... Followed by a finished space game that sells millions and actually includes a lot of what Star Citizen has left out...)

But I digress, as usual.

Thank you all for jumping in and protecting my goon valor It was totally unneeded but deeply appreciated, an unexpectedly touching gift from a thread that has already given me so much laughter and ponder fodder, so many surprises, and the surrealist sense of online camaraderie I've ever loved.

:thumbsup:

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

ManofManyAliases posted:

I'm not Toast


My horseshit evidence is at least more readily available, viewable and real than your horseshit counter-evidence. All the AGs, lawyers, FTC complaints and drivel shouting won't dissuade CIG from closing nor would it prevent other people from deciding to back. Good luck with the crusade. It's as admirable as me being here to tell you otherwise.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

ManofManyAliases posted:

I'm out for the night after this reply:

SC is squarely in alpha

It's not Alpha-- there are too many essential gameplay features as yet undefined. Unless you've seen builds with the big missing stuff baked in (or CIG has already decided to remove things like mining, trading, exploration, salvage, farming, passenger transport, etc...)

Technically if it lacks core mechanics / features it's Pre-Alpha. Once those are in, it's Alpha.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
I don't know if anyone saw the Scalebound demo in the Xbox stream but this guy was fighting monsters literally 100 times his size. He was talking smack and getting shots in but they were huge and he eventually got grand slammed and flew like half a mile in the air, bounced on the ground.



He was down. Stunned.

But then he whipped out red headphones and put them on and cranked up a rock track and said something like "LETS DO THIS!"



And it was GAME ON.

Day 1 purchase. Deluxe edition with $100 red headsets if available.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

No Mods No Masters posted:

I love kamiya and wish him all the best but every time they show gameplay for this it looks jank as all hell, hope it works out for him

I still dug it. I was wincing at first but the headphone part just so gleefully committed to the corniness of it all it made the instant jump to corny awesomeness.

Like "Road House" but in a Final Fantasy styled monster fighter game.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Ramadu posted:

That office looks horrible to work in

Are you kidding?

There are opportunities everywhere to nestle yourself in the softness of a vintage bomber jacket seat as you're hugged in aluminum accented, aerodynamic curves dotted with exposed steel screws, each element reinforcing a sense of flyboy swagger formerly known to only the most daring of dogfighters in World War II...

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.


G0RF fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jun 14, 2016

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Sperglord posted:

When does infinite warfare appear at E3?

There were some editorials in gaming rags questioning the tastefulness of heavy promotion of shooter games in light of the recent massacre. I wonder if that changed anybody's plans last minute - it certainly has changed some of the tone of presentations. Maybe even changed the show agendas... We shall see.

(There's a very indepth feature in Game Informer that I'm planning to upload-- should have it tomorrow.)

quote:

Also, Gorf, where's the Andromeda? That was a disappointment.
NOW you're complaining? :)

I was jazzed to see the Skyrim in Space rumors look true- I wanted more too, especially considering the things Bioware Devs said in the weeks building up to the show. Looks like EA had other plans-- FIFA, Madden, and Battlefield getting the lionshare of that hour.

G0RF fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jun 14, 2016

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
CALL OF DUTY: INFINITE WARFARE Gameplay Reveal

This isn't the official stream-- that's not been updated yet-- but for those checking in, the above is a decent 720p stream.

Much to discuss!

---

GameInformer teases their new issue and in-depth coverage in a clip here.

---

And if you missed it, Call of Duty has their own CitizenCon event coming in September: CALL OF DUTY XP.

$2,000,000 in prizes. 10000 attendees over 3 days, with the best in their e-sport shooter competitions.

They'll be revealing their Infinite Warfare multiplayer mode at that show.

G0RF fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jun 14, 2016

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

notoriousman posted:

Eh, I don't really see it.

How could a space forklift even hope to compete against a space bulldozer?

THIS GUY GETS IT.

----

Reposting the Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare trailer as a courtesy for the new page.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Justin Tyme posted:

Even if COD is a linear shooter, who cares? It offers the same story-driven campaign SC does, and it does it better.

I just thought of something: what are the chances CIG/CR saw a preview of the COD gameplay video from a friend in the industry, and realized whatever they had paled in comparison to the point of being utterly embarrassing, and that's the reason they pulled out from E3? Because the whole "we're too busy!" excuse honestly doesn't fly.

It's not linear actually. The single player campaign allows players to choose missions outside of a prescribed order, I think.

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G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
I'm quoting an effort post from a little ways back-- now with updated graphics. Forgive me if it slows the thread to a crawl. I'll delete some if so.

G0RF posted:

The thing is-- they can not compete with them. They just can't. It's not just a question of rationality -- it's a question of talent, efficiency, and synergy.



CLOUD IMPERIUM CAN'T COMPETE

CIG can't compete with the AAA Space Games they know about -- and the certainly can't compete with the ones they don't know about. They are a floundering, disorganized studio -- the Ad Hoc-iest game studio in recent memory -- and they've betrayed this very fact repeatedly without intending to in the very shows meant to boost backer confidence in the project.

Over the last month or so, I have been astonished to see how many new faces have appeared on "Around the Verse". This most recent episode features an employee in LA who was on his very first day of work. His very first day.

I don't mean by mentioning him to impugn his talent or question his worth. He might be a great hire-- as might be all the new hires. But CIG is a Gaming Studio whose revolving door spins like a top -- so many leaving, so many coming in. It might take 3-6 months before a new hire reaches something approximating productivity. Yet CIG is not a well-tuned engine made faster or more efficient once new employees learn the ropes, it is a bucket brigade. Some fight fires, others try to keep the thing afloat.

Rockstar, Bethesda, Infinity Ward, Bioware-- these are machines. Work doesn't grind to a halt because some guy broke his arm, or because they lose a key employee, or because they can't fill a position. They may occasionally push a release date back three months, they may occasionally even lose a badass. But deadlines matter to them because they make their money AFTER release, not before.

And the most successful of them hardly lose employees at all. Bethesda Softworks has 100 employees. Some have worked together 5,10 even 20 years. Todd Howard touched on the mysterious shorthand that emerges between people who've worked together closely for that long in a recent speech at DICE. There are synergies CIG can't even dream of once a studio achieves that level of cohesion. It took 100 people 4 years to put out Fallout 4-- and they made nearly $1B in 24 hours upon release. CIG can't compete against such studios because they can't compete like them.

"YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT GAME DEVELOPMENT!"

"Why, it's just the way the Games Industry works!", the backers always retort, as some did when Mark Skelton's surprise departure was announced only days ago. "You know nothing about Game Development if you don't know that!"

Alas, would that that were true. Would that it all were true! Than the steady flow of CIG arrivals and departures was a sign of the relative health of the company; a sign of good things to come for Star Citizen and Squadron 42.

Yet the perpetual turnover and ad hoc development habits of Cloud Imperium Games are not typical of every studio.

Nor are logjams where two years of motion capture animations pile up undeployed because there's no Technical Animator on-hand to port them into the game.

Nor is starting a new year without a development roadmap for the year ahead, necessitating ad hoc spitballing sessions between management power players spread across the globe.

Nor is prioritizing the addition of in-game Spacedoll clothes shopping when your tutorial is broken, your flight model ludicrous, and your FPS so bad you can put a clip full of bullets in an opponents head, only to watch him strike a T Pose and hover away.

THIS IS WHAT FLOUNDERING LOOKS LIKE

It explains quite neatly why Star Citizen remains in an unstable Alpha state, 4.5 years in, with less than 10% of its promised content and features available for players. A company like CIG does not have time to anticipate and then respond to their competitive threats because...

...Their Developers are too busy lining up all of Chris Roberts promised game features and deciding which ones to shoot in the head...

...Their QA teams are documenting bugs squashed months ago somehow resurrected with new patches...

...Their Customer Support folks are busy sending canned "too bad, so sad" replies to people asking for refunds...

... Their Community Team is too busy putting out weekly tv shows about Wing Commander arcana while denying viewers answers about delivery dates for content...

... Their Visionary Leader is too busy shooting even more footage for a long overdue single player game unlikely to ever recoup its development budget...

...and their Marketing Team, such as it is, continues to pursue her Hollywood dream while not even bothering to stay abreast of basic game developments like Evocati testing...

How can they respond to threats from without when fighting threats from within is a fulltime job?


I know this was true for the last few years, when Chris Roberts thought the Space Game race market would be fought over between him and his Frenemy of old, David Braben.

But 2016 has been a wake up call. and from what I can tell, yesteryear's sense of Manifest Destiny is beginning to crumble in the senior leadership. It is one thing to make offhand claims about developing a shooter on par with Call of Duty when you're primary competition is a space game that hasn't yet added space legs. It is quite another when the latest "Call of Duty" game is set in space and includes space dogfighting missions and Zero G combat.






"I sense a disturbance in The Farce..."

Except they may not have anything super impressive to show. They unfortunately now live in a world where the Admiral Bishop speech will be compared with Infinite Warfare cutscenes. It's going to be really hard to compete against that kind of polish, especially when Infinity Ward specifically prioritized improving the CoD storytelling elements and brought in some of the creatives behind "The Last of Us" and "Uncharted 4" to do just that.

Chris Roberts told us that AAA studios make creatively compromised games and subordinate creative visionaries to beancounter concerns. And in 3 years time, one of the biggest AAA franchises in gaming history has cooked up a Dogfighting and FPS movie game that Squadron 42 must now prove superior to, lest Chris' narrative be repudiated. I'm going out on a limb here, but I kinda think he's parped on that front...

Oh, and a few months after that, Mass Effect Andromeda arrives.



G0RF fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Jun 14, 2016

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