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BastionPete
Nov 4, 2015


Well, I lost access to my old account from 2007, so I thought I'd make myself a brand spanking new one to contribute to this discussion. I even bought premium so I could be privy to all the SuperSecretTM stuff going on.

Turns out that was a minor mistake, frikkin loled hard when I realised

You need a Platinum Upgrade to view this link.

As my first post in this thread, I'll try and keep it from being a complete shitpost.

Anyway, I'll give you some context of me. I'm about $60 deep in Star Citizen, backed in 2012 at the funding launch, and installed the game once every six months or so just to see what progress there is. There has been significantly less than I had hoped tbh. I saw this thread on Reddit where I am a semi active user. Anyway, while I appreciate some of the arguments for the game never being released, it does feel like one mighty echochamber in here.

My take on some of controversies surrounding SC.

On crazy obsessive/harassing WhiteKnight StarCitizens
Well, you have a community of 700K where the occasional individual is in for $20k. Yes they are dicks and I don't condone any of their actions. However, they do not reflect the wider starcitizen community. Personally I think they are insane for spending that much money on a videogame. Whatever, they are a few bad apples. I feel sorry for Derek that he has to put up with their harassment.

On never ending delays and how the project is being run.
This is one of my biggest frustrations with SC. The actual content being released (ArenaCommander/HangarModule/Planetside) is only a small part of what is needed for the finished game, and yet so much resources seem to be poured into them. Whole critical parts of the game, such as the databasing needed for persistence etc. not currently in development. While this is annoying, I don't think it's necessarily an indication of a project that's about to fail. Just poor project management. Also, I know very little about large scale game development and where developers spend most of their time. I agree that the project has been poorly managed in the past, as is shown by our current lack of a game. That said, just because there have been poor management decisions in the past, does not mean that the current development strategy is stupid, or that CIG are unable to produce a completed game. The current drive to make AC2.0 a platform to build out the rest of the PU game mechanics seems sensible enough to me.

Problems in one studio mean problems in all studios
There are currently four SC studios so far as I can tell. Santa Monica, Austin, ManchesterUK, and FrankfurtDE. Austin seems to be downsizing. Manchester and Frankfurt seem to be growing. For some reason this is painted here as a reason for CIG being in trouble. Some people have complained of toxic work environments, but they seem to be fairly limited to Austin, and maybe a bit in Santa Monica. Manchester and Frankfurt seem to be chugging along fine, and really helping to get the game moved along. The imminent release of AC2.0 is probably their doing. The fact that they are growing, I think, is a good sign for the project as a whole.

Money problems leading to the project shutting down
There is no evidence of this at all. Star Citizen raised $4.2m last month. Even if this was a one off, it still shows that the project has a huge number of people willing to spend money on it. The project has 700K preorders on the books, and a very generous community. If they need extra credit (and I don't hear any evidence beyond unfounded rumour) then I have zero doubt that investors will be lining up to get a piece of the action. Even before crowdfunding started, CR only needed to raise about $4m to get his investors interested and secure about $15m dollars in funding. I bet they'd be interested now.
Secondly, there is the unfounded number of $3m dollars being spent per month. Derek claimed with AbsoluteCertaintyTM that the company only had $8m dollars left and would be shutting down imminently. This is all BS. At the time of the claim, they had raised about $90m I think. (90-8)/3=27months of funding. Which is 2.33 (recurring of course) years of funding at that expenditure rate. Considering we're three years in now and there is now way whatsoever that CIG were spending that amount for even the first year and a half of operation, there is a very good chance that CIG still has a reasonable amount tucked away.

On Sandi
This is the biggest joke of the lot. There is a lot of 'evidence' thrown about on topics that really don't matter. Who gives a gently caress if she is married to CR, or is a jerk, or doesn't have a marketing degree. She oversaw a marketing strategy that has raised $94m which is all that matters. That was her job. If she hadn't done that then we would be right to start the criticisms, but that's clearly not the the case. Cries of nepotism are stupid. She wasn't appointed when the company was a multimillion dollar project, she was appointed at inception. If the director of marketing was just a random person (with a marketing degree) who raised $93m, and then they were fired and replaced with Sandi, then shout nepotism all you like. He using company property and time for personal projects is an unknown for me. They don't seem too credible and seem to be clutching at straws.

SC subreddit imgur posts getting bombed
The idea that this was a 'friendly fire' incident doesn't really hold any water IMO. The fact that every image without exception got taken down, leads me to believe that it was a deliberate attack. There were plenty of really obscure images taken down that were posted years ago that weren't originally posted in this thread. I say originally because after the news broke, some then started posting more links here to images to try and get them taken down by proxy. I could be wrong on this one, but I really don't think so.

Derek's claims in general, and refunds
Some of them have turned out to be true - Austin downsizing, a few perople quitting, maybe a couple of other things, but a lot of his claims seem to be unfounded beyond his mysterious sources. I dunno, maybe he is telling the truth, but he really doesn't come across as the most trustworthy/stable of guys. If all this drama had been raised by a more reputable character, I might have considered refunding, as it stands, Derek claiming something doesn't really worry me and I'll be keeping my game package till something a bit more concrete comes up.

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BastionPete
Nov 4, 2015


Libluini posted:

Man that's harsh. So you think a Redditor attacked subreddit imgur posts out of pure malice, instead of just stupidity? You're too cynical for me.
If that guy didn't immediately get incinerated by a lightning strike, God doesn't exist.

Chalks posted:

So what are you saying? Nobody targeted this thread, they just targeted the front page of reddit and by coincidence a bunch of cat pictures and pictures of food that we happened to post here where also taken down? Yeah that's a totally rational explanation.
This attack went on for days and people pretty much immediately started including additional reddit content in posts. Like within the first 30 mins of it starting.
I guess life's just an infinite mystery and nobody could possibly deduce what happened here.

tooterfish posted:

It wasn't Star Citizen pictures that were being reported, it was any picture posted in the thread.
Why don't you have a look and see for yourself. This post contained a picture of someone's catte. Someone's catte in a box.

MeLKoR posted:

You are wrong and this makes no sense at all. Why the gently caress would we go the roundabout way to get pictures banned from reddit by putting a bot running on our own thread when we could just point that bot at the target subreddit? :psyduck: Our thread was hit first and pictures of loving cats were getting deleted before reddit even noticed it. Only after they started bitching about it did we (myself included) start deliberately linking to everything we could find on Reddit just to gently caress with them. The proof that we were the victims and not the perpetrators is that everything we linked in here was getting deleted in a matter of minutes, even stupid poo poo that had nothing to do with SC.
I never said that this thread wasn't targeted maliciously. Some retard redditor thought it would be funny I guess. The only thing I'm saying is that it wasn't a friendly fire incident. If one stupid redditor can do it, I'm sure someone else can do it back to reddit.
The news hit on Reddit first, I know because I saw the thread pop up on the /r/dereksmart subreddit, and checked it out myself. I saw that obscure posts from years ago that never would have been posted here were down. It took a few hours before this thread noticed at all (and started posting links to more reddit images LOL). Again, I never said that the redditors bot wasn't going through this thread at all, I just said that the original strike on reddit was a separate attack and deliberate. As to who did it... I don't know and will probably never know.


MeLKoR posted:

I don't think a diploma is mandatory for people to do their job right but if we are talking about a multi million multi national project I'd expect the Marketing VP to be chosen on either his/her academic qualifications or proven work experience, Sandi seems to lack the former and definitely lacks the latter. You attribute the success of the pre-sales to her influence, I say that the game just came at a perfect time when it was the only game in town to cater to every nostalgic space fantasy of moneyed nerds. Her reaction to the D_Smart controversy only reinforced my idea that the project was a success despite her, not because of her.
And despite any questions on her competency as a Marketing VP nepotism is still a completely valid criticism because it raises the question of how much influence did she have on the CEO's decision to spend dozens(?) of millions of dollars getting big Hollywood names that she, a aspiring failed actress could then work with to patch her resume. So we have a (possibly) non-qualified Marketing VP that doubles as an actress for the project and triples as the CEOs wife and is getting payed accordingly, no doubt. I'd say nepotism is very much a valid issue.
You question her competency and claim that she could have persuaded CR to hire Gary Oldman to boost her failed acting career. That sounds like an unfounded conspiracy theory to me, I don't see any reason why I should believe that is the case. I mean, it MAY be true, like some conspiracy theories do turn out to be true, but you don't have a shred of evidence for that.
As to whether she was instrumental or not in the marketing of the company, or whether the funding would have gone the way it did without her... well, elite dangerous rocked up at the same time and hasn't had the same level of funding success, so I don't think that is true. You don't just raise $94 million by chance.

Reason posted:

Yeah Right.
It is a problem if an amateur hour marketer lies and markets a whole bunch of stuff that is never going to be in the game and essentially just sells a 'game' that will won't exist.
I agree that CIG over-promised and will probably have to drop some features, that said, I never saw Sandi over-promising. It was normally CR in 10FTC.

Sardonik posted:

Should have been written:
I don't believe these numbers for an instant. They are not accountable to anybody with these numbers, and it would be child's play to manipulate them. There are a lot of idiots on the internet with money who fall for this poo poo, but not enough to produce these numbers, especially with the shitshow that was citcon, and the increasingly bad press CIG have been getting. A number that suspiciously good smells like desperation trying to keep the bubble from bursting, and encouraging people to donate.
Somebody who gives way too much of a gently caress should analyze their fundraising activity relative to their forum activity. I'd be interested to see how those track.
Well if you're right then we're in for a shitstorm. I see no evidence of this however. Also forum activity isn't a great way of analysing funding. The SC forums are the most toxic set of forums I've ever seen and lots of people avoid them. It's even more of an insane echochamber than reddit.

SirPhoebos posted:

Welcome BastionPete.
First, no need to say you had an account from 2007 that you lost. Even if it's true, no one cares.
Second, you sound like a mostly rational person, unlike some other SC supporters that have come here. Be sure to read the forum rules, and as long as you don't make an rear end of yourself no one here will bite your head off.
I've mostly been lurking in this thread, so I'll let goons that have been involved with SC respond to your points. But one thing I'm curious about : as someone that still believes SC will be released, what do you think the game is going to be?
Oh, and :gary:PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRP
gently caress knows. Depends on if they run out of money or not right? lol. I reckon they can make a reasonable game that they have been talking about. A lot of crazy poo poo they talk about (alien languages, etc.) may well not make it, but I don't really care that much about that tbh.

Also
:gary: PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP


Edit: and about my old account. I wasn't pretending to be an old SA forumite lol. I was just prefacing why I brought platinum. I had like 20 posts on my old account, total throwaway comment.

BastionPete
Nov 4, 2015


Eonwe posted:

dont do this
Why not?

BastionPete
Nov 4, 2015


Eonwe posted:

nobody is going to read your long rear end posts about how totally not lovely star citizen is disguised as you being impartial unless they are doing it ironically to make a joke or something
Well some people took the time to reply in a semi-serious fashion, so I replied. My bad.

AP posted:

Read it again, this time as if you think the guy is lying to you. That's damage control and positive CIG spin and why the hell would anyone with $60 in effort post that crazy bold heading stuff and then gently caress off without replying. That guy has been touched by Roberts.
Haha, I was watching Insurgent. It was a poo poo film and I wasted two hours of my life. Sorry I don't check this thread religiously every second.

BastionPete
Nov 4, 2015


AP posted:

What country are you in?
UK, why?


Eonwe posted:

you can honestly post however you want but if you want some advice just tone down the serious on the posts a little bit because nobody here is gonna take Star Citizen serious here except you, Karl Ramsesier, and Octopode
Who's Karl? Is that Accelewraith? But yeah, I thought I'd say my peace from day one, get it all off my chest and then back to normality right?

BastionPete
Nov 4, 2015


Mirificus posted:

This is what a crazy person trying to look impartial looks like:






So I just have to get my dick out and then I'm not crazy?

BastionPete
Nov 4, 2015


AP posted:

We have a crazy nutbar from Germany and he likes creating new accounts. I'm going to assume you don't speak German from this point onwards.
Well I can count to 10 in German, but no, I can assure you I'm not German lol.

peter gabriel posted:

I enjoyed your long post, it's rare we get long posts here, post in your own style.
Elvis Presley did his own thing back when people didn't understand him and he died on the toilet, fat and happy - after years of doing things his way.
You could do that too, I wish you all the best and never change to please people, like Elvis
Inspirational, or something, never did like elvis :/. Writing long posts is a bit of effort though, I don't do it too often.

BastionPete
Nov 4, 2015


Sarsapariller posted:

Hello, person reading the thread closely enough to have an opinion on image bombing but who doesn't know who Karl is after the last couple of days.

Friendly advice- if you were in fact gullible enough to actually buy an account and platinum upgrade on the basis of the fake spoiler-tag joke, you might want to consider whether or not your critical thinking ability and bullshit filter are really up to the task of posting in this thread.
I did recognise Karl, hence why I mentioned Accelewraith, who I believe it is. Not sure tho. Will extensively fact check future posts before pressing submit.
I admit, that was pretty gullible. You probably backed StarCitizen though so jokes on you.

BastionPete
Nov 4, 2015


fuctifino posted:

What was your old account name called BastionPete?
You can send me a PM if you want it to be a secret, and I can check the archives to vouch you aren't Karl.
<--- e: Yay! Popsicle!
I honestly can't remember the name, and don't have access to the email I used to create it. Sorry. You're just going to have to trust me on this one, or not. Maybe I'll slowly morph into Karl and start spewing nonsense about Derek being literally Satan. You never know.

BastionPete
Nov 4, 2015


Eonwe posted:

excellent first post
He only ever gets one of those, he's gotta make it count. Mine was far too serious, totally misjudged the audience :/

MeLKoR posted:

You're fooling no one, I can tell by your post you've had an account here since at least 2011, maybe even 2010.
:gary:

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BastionPete
Nov 4, 2015


It is a PTU release, it's not surprising at all that it's got issues that need to be fixed. I have it installed and I agree, it's crashing a lot and is highly frustrating, that said, the core gameplay looks really interesting and has a lot of potential to be fun.
When the SocialModule released it had almost a daily patching schedule and a lot of issues were quickly fixed. It's only been out for one working day so far, so I'm not particularly surprised that it's crashing a lot. Give it a couple of weeks and if it's still garbage then sure, we can say there are deeper problems.

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