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XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

There was a gif posted a week or so ago of a pilot sitting in a cockpit, the ship rotating around, and the pilot's limbs rolling around the cockpit as the ship rotated. I'm not bothering to look for it because I bet it got nuked by the bot. It basically says all that needs to be said about why this game will never come out in any form even slightly resembling the promises that have been made.

You get your basic starting point build made, all's good. Then you start going down the list of 1,200 promises you've made. You decide to pick something simple to start with, like ship localized physics or some bullshit. You spend 3 weeks mucking up your code with patches and tentacles running through everything. Finally you're done, it seems pretty good, the code's kind of messed up now, but you'll clean it up later. Oh, wait, the pilot's arms and legs fly around all over the place when the ship rotates. gently caress. Only 1,199 hacks to go.

This is basically what happens when you don't have the underlying framework for your software worked out before you start slapping stuff together, and it only gets exponentially worse when you fall victim to feature bloat. I've been there before with my own software, where I just start making stuff, get it working, then try to start sticking other features on later. It always results in a completely unmanageable mess.

If they were promising only a space ship sim, I'd say it was a reasonable possibility for them to get it together and produce something. They are promising pretty much everything that could be imagined, don't appear to have their fundamental framework worked out, and are pathologically ridden with feature bloat. This situation is an absolute death knell for any project. This is why the media they have to present of what their game offers seems to be going backwards and is less impressive than what they were showcasing years ago, it's the reason they've had to start SQ42 over, and it's why everything is in modules. Nothing works together. When they try to combine all these separate pieces, it will not be possible even by the greatest coding wizards. They are destroying their own work through bad project management and bloat. I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, when the project falls apart, they have almost nothing functional left because everything has been wrecked with half-assed hacks and patches to make space juke boxes and targeting reticules not rotate through the hull and fly off into the nearest physics object.

I can't even call it a con job, because with that the smart thing to do would be to poo poo out a decent space ship sim, then run off with the rest of the tens of millions in funds and the project completed. This is a guy who's in completely over his head, is going to end up blowing every dollar, and nobody will have anything to show for it except some space ship concept art.


I can't believe how off in the weeds this project is. These are actual real manuals. No project can survive this.

XK fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Oct 31, 2015

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XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Dapper Dan posted:

The reason why they don't is because they desperately need the money. Any healthy company would (well most). Either because they care about their consumers or because if someone blows their life savings and then their wife leaves and they kill themselves, that would be bad PR. I think CIG legit doesn't give a gently caress about these rubes. Except they do it through a forced smile than outright contempt like Games Workshop.

I think the most rational explanation is that Chris Roberts is high on his own supply. When or even if he realizes it doesn't really matter anymore, it's already too late.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Jst0rm posted:

what hit home to me about dsmarts first blog was how croberts promised everything and well sometime you cant put everything in a game. especially some off the shelf engine. He should of stayed on target with his core game but no retard fucker that he is had to go off in lala land and make who knows what. That dude is a entitled spoiled loving soft bitch. Who knows what contacts he had from the git to even make a video game to start with. Now he thinks he has some gifted imagination when in reality its all poo poo. Hungry artists work the hardest and this slow soft gently caress is neither of those.

With the scope of promises that have been made for this project, there is absolutely no excuse for not writing their own engine. Engineering a AAA game engine is an endeavor, but with what has been promised out of this project, it would only make sense, as modifying any off the shelf engine to deliver on their broad promises would take so much custom modification they might as well make a bespoke engine. If I were running this project, and I were trying to deliver an outer space sim/in atmosphere flight model/fps/walking around loving with poo poo/manage the {cargo bay, slaves, barista}/gently caress space prostitutes/do whatever game, I would assume right off the bat I should probably produce my own engine so I don't have to deal with architectural design decisions made based upon supporting a game about walking around in a jungle with a machine gun. Maybe then they would be able to get their targeting reticule to function properly.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

Read all the way to about here

Did you get tired?

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

I read the words "make sense" in a star citizen development context and my brain bluescreened :thejoke:

Actually, I found your posts very interesting

Oh, well then, I agree with you completely.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Omi-Polari posted:

The thing is, a lot of what CRoberts did was not terrible: trading on nostalgia, crowdfunding, savvy marketing and tapping into built-up demand for space games after the industry had starved the genre for a decade. The spacegame genre had been pretty sparse since Freespace 2. But then he goes and turns $93+ million into a cockup that's now on the verge of going super critical. There is an asteroid-belt sized pile of poo poo about to collide with a very big and expensive space fan.

This is why I believe Roberts was a true believer in his own poo poo. Even knowing there was pent up demand for space sims, there's no way anyone could've gone into this thinking they would get tens of millions of dollars, approaching one hundred million. I don't know if he's yet to realize the poo poo he's in, but I'm pretty sure he started out with good intentions, and worked his way up to this point through self-delusion. If he realizes what he's stuck in right now, big if, he might be feeling like he's in too deep and has to keep the thing running so he can manage pull something off.

Actually, if he does fully understand the tough spot he is in, and recognizes the project is hosed, and he only got himself here through delusional good intentions, I'd feel really bad for him. At least, if I were in his position, I'd have a lot of sleepless nights if I hosed up enough to find myself there.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

A Neurotic Jew posted:

I have no doubt that he's been having sleepless nights recently, but I doubt he's had any revelations about himself because of them. If he were capable of figuring that out he would have rectified his behavior many projects ago. He's probably aware at this point that there's no escaping this catastrophe, but much like his fan-base he will go down blaming those underneath him/Derek Smart/goons in the end. His manic response to the Escapist proves as much.

Sandi will also do anything but blame herself, but fortunately for her she can point the cross-hairs at Chris when the going gets rough.

This is true. If it were me, I would've found a way to bail out well before it were driven into the tens of millions, and made attempts to moderate expectations. However, they are continuing to fleece funds from believers. I still think Roberts found himself here somewhat unintentionally, and it's going to end up being a disaster for everyone. The backers will never get an adequate game, and Roberts will blow every dollar on office space, motion capture, and coffee machines.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Karl_Ramseier posted:

If you sling enough mud around some of it will stick. Someone wrote he produced 50k words in his blogs alone. Most things he predicted were completely wrong, some half truth. Not one 100% accurate. The Leaving of James for example was pure datamining the rsi page. I don't say he hasn't contacts, even an inside source would be possible. But if he has an inside source, she should be more accurate in the future.
CIG on the other side has the worst PR department I ever saw. The way they are communicating with their backers is hilarious and a real shame.
I asked a friend of mine working in marketing and he said: "look, the only thing they are interested in is selling their product. And as long as this approach is working, nothing will change."
In the end they let Smart's crusade gain the traction it had because they fail to communicate with their player base. This open development prattle is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. At this point there is no open development left.


We won't get any detailed information about their financial standing if they don't want to. Forget about that it's just Smart's wet dream. And I strongly hope they don't have millions just lying around. That's just how a failed developer thinks a company should handle their finances. But what do you expect from a man who pretends to be different people in online tutorials for his garbage game? That was really - odd.


The fun part would be that this is the only point which matters. The restructuring of the company was overdue. With Erin in a global leader role and foundry 42 in Germany they did the right thing. Star Marine was/is a fiasco. They are rebuilding it from scratch, but this isn't the end of days. As long as they have enough money they continue to produce these games and either they succeed or they don't, we certainly can't change that.


He is a human being desperately seeking attention. The traction his missives got is already over and now he plays the jester for you guys until you have enough of him. And with every sentence he writes he is digging his grave regarding any legal action. But according to AP there is no lawsuit, so what it is this all about?


Phew, then they have nothing to fear. This thread is as much an echo chamber as the star citizen subreddit. You guys are exaggerating everything bad and the Redditors everything good. The truth is just somewhere in the middle.

I wrote all this and posted it under this alt-account. Or just "same".

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Mukip posted:

I agree, but if you asked me last year whether they would still be making multi-million dollar monthly revenue by now then I'd have said that they already exhausted the well of silly money. I don't understand where it all keeps coming from so I can't really say that they won't make more.

The money keeps coming because of a promise of what is to be. As soon as anything "complete" is released, the money train is over and everything will collapse into itself like a blackhole. The only play is to keep everything perpetually in development.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube


Steve Jobs is the one out of a billion "idea men" that are successful without having someone else reign in their crazy nonsense ideas. Chris Roberts is no Steve Jobs. Chris Roberts' ideas rain down on his own projects like destructive meteors.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Das Gray posted:

When there are stressful times like these I resort to crockpot buffalo chicken tater tot casserole. :gary:

That sounds both awful and excellent. I'm imagining the tater tots being crispy, though, which seems impossible in a crockpot. If they're soggy, it's just awful.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

They are metal cards, so slightly more difficult to machine gun out of a press, but still. Too many orders, closing down early, but get your order in fast and we'll squeeze it in somehow.

Also, have fun with your bent up metal card if you do anything with it other than immediately clamping it into a lucite collector's case.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

CrazyTolradi posted:

Thing is, I'm not sure why it's taking them three months or why they have to preorder for a lovely metal card. Also "allow our manufacturer enough bandwidth", it's not like they're uploading JPEGs :wtchris:

I assumed their usage of "bandwidth" was a really tortured way of referring to production capacity. Really, though, even if metal cards might be a little harder to produce than plastic credit cards, I'm pretty sure any competent manufacturer's production run on silk screened metal sheets is limited only by the money the customer is paying. Even if it were etched, embossed, and pad printed, you could easily produce millions with people paying $10 a piece.

I'm assuming these cards are aluminum. I actually looked this up: ISO/IEC 7810 Identification cards Physical characteristics is an international standard that defines the physical characteristics for identification cards. ID-1 standard, which almost all banking cards, identification cards, and driver's licenses adhere to internationally: 85.60 mm * 53.98 mm * 0.76 mm. This is 3.5cc. Aluminum is 2.7 grams per cc. This gives 9.5 grams in a card. Aluminum is currently 70 cents per pound. Each card would contain $0.0146 of metal. Let's say 1.5 cents. I'm completely spit-balling here, but let's quadruple it to 6 cents for high quality rolled sheets, and triple it again to stamp it out and run a press onto it. Those cards are maybe 18 cents a piece to make. Put a 40% manufacturer mark-up on them and they might be paying 25 cents a piece for them. Depending on how they package them, their shipping cost might be a couple bucks on average per recipient.

So, these dumb cards are easily in the neighborhood of $7 pure profit each.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

spacetoaster posted:

Laser etched metal business cards. You can get a little over a thousand for $1.70.

Throw some star citizen art and you could probably make a better VIP card for yourself.

http://metalcards.com/pricing.html


Fake edit* And how pissed would the special snowflakes be if they say peons like us having better looking cards than them? lol

That's $1.70 per card, and they're 0.01 inch thick vs. standard card thickness of 0.03. Flimsy as poo poo. Also, their width and height dimensions are both about 1/8 inch out from standard card dimensions, so they'd be kind of awkward if you were trying to role-play it as a real ID card.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Jst0rm posted:

Those amex black carbon fiber cards cant be cheap but why would cig do anything but cheap out at every step.

By far, the expensive part of carbon fiber stuff is the molding process. Little flat cards don't require very much molding.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Once anyone receives their card, what is the usage scenario? Their relatives happen to stumble upon it while scooping their junk into a garbage bag after their death?

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Rad Russian posted:

Well someone linked to their forums and people at $500-900 pledge levels are scrambling to buy more jpegs to get to the $1000 threshold to pick up the stupid card before they "run out" on Sunday. It's a clever tactic to get more money from the imbeciles. And they happily get to claim that they're not making any profit off the actual $10 of that card cost, it's simply to benefit all the fans!

At this point they're just being manipulatively abusive.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Ketchup is cool and good. The best ketchup is Muir Glen. Wegman's store brand is a close second and much cheaper. Heinz and the other major brands are trash.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Matlock Birthmark posted:

Wait a minute, I just looked at this. It looks like once again a ship is being put out that adds even more things they'll need to develop in the finished game. That ship apparently has two mini-games built in. One to move a repair arm (whatever that entails) and one to choose materials to craft/repair with.



It's no drink mixing minigame, but yeah for even more scope creep.

Hahahahahaha

This is all the proof you need to know this pile of poo poo is never coming out.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

I've never watched any of the Star Citizen things before, but I'm watching this live now. It looks exactly like a scam that's on it's last legs and on the most desperate life support.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

As an outsider who's only been aware of this for the last month: This is supposed to be about an upcoming game? What the gently caress are these people talking about? Who is this fooling? It's stunning how blatant this disaster is.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Here's our game update! Three people talking at a desk in front of pictures.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Robert's body language, the way he kept half shrugging while slamming his hands down on the desk while talking about the next release, is really telling.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

I hope federal investigators are recording this stream.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

This is the moment Star Citizen implodes.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Spaceship game, here's a bar with cigars.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

What's the deal with the loving fish tanks?

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Now making excuses for wasting time on the club. :lol:

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

The look in Roberts' eyes, he looks like he wants to kill himself.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

All of these guys look so stressed out it's like watching a hostage video.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Ben looks so uncomfortable I think he wants to literally flee the room.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Ben's about to have a panic attack.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

The guy on the left (Eric?) is visibly sweating.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Erin. He's a really nice guy and a good developer. He's the one who took the lead on Privateer (ie the best Wing Commander). He also loving HATES doing public stuff and is probably jet lagged to hell and back.

He's so uncomfortable he's chewing his face and his breathing is staggered.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

That sure was a good 2004 E3 teaser clip of a game in alpha.

What?

Oh.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Aesaar posted:

Hang on. Is multi-crew included in 2.0? I've heard conflicting reports.

As in is it possible to operate the turret on, say, a Constellation while someone else is flying it?

Or has the "game" crashed before anyone could actually check?

I saw someone get in a turret and operate it. The ships seem to have problems with more than one person on them at a time. I saw a guy phase out of his ship when someone else flew away with it. Then it hung there over the pad, he jet packed up into the bay, and when he tried to enter a crew door the center of the screen pinched like it was doing the warp drive, then the ship ejected itself from around him and appeared over the opposite side of the pad.

Someone had a description of this release last night that completely nailed it. It's an object viewer. You can "fly" around, there's hints of neat things hidden about, the individual assets look good, but it's almost all "look but don't touch". You could have nearly the same experience zooming around in a model viewer.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Chalks posted:

Time and money is important and there are plenty of corners that may be cut, but if they took what they have right now to investors and said "we need 18 months and we can release a game that people will buy" they'd probably get the money and probably be right.

Why would anyone buy this project when all the potential customers have already bought it? It would be a total money pit with no back-end profit even if it were corralled into a functional product.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

CIG will claim that the entire experience of imagining Star Citizen was the game. It was really an ARG, and all the enjoyment people had with the message board postings, discussions, multiple video series, and fantasy about the product, was actually the game itself.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

AP posted:

I have no real clue considering how unstable the people in charge appear to be, but Steve Jobs was apparently an arsehole and got stuff done, so if you assume they can cut down to 3 million a month as a burn rate, another 18 months needs 54 million.

Steve Jobs was the one-out-of-a-billion narcissistic rear end in a top hat control freaks who actually had a completely realistic perfectionist vision for what he wanted that meshed with the real world and the consumer market. Chris Roberts is not Steve Jobs.

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XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube


It says $2,500 now, or is your price automatically including VAT or some other tax? Good to see it includes the Idris someone was whining about earlier, and lifetime insurance.

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