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BearDrivingTruck
Oct 15, 2011

Don't touch me now
Don't hold me now
Don't break the spell darling, now you are near
Look in my eyes
And speak to me
Those special promises I long to hear

Las palabras de amor

Fallen Rib

Clarste posted:

Personally I find it kind of funny that Fie has such a weird sense of fashion compared to everyone else.

Growing up as the youngest member in a mercenary troupe probably didn't lend itself well to keeping up with popular or any trends.

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Starsnostars
Jan 17, 2009

The Master of Magnetism


Fie should wear a sweet jacket like Xeno and Leo.

BearDrivingTruck
Oct 15, 2011

Don't touch me now
Don't hold me now
Don't break the spell darling, now you are near
Look in my eyes
And speak to me
Those special promises I long to hear

Las palabras de amor

Fallen Rib

Starsnostars posted:

Fie should wear a sweet jacket like Xeno and Leo.

It's almost certainly not what you have in mind, but her jacket in CS2 follows the same color scheme as the other Zephyr members' jackets. It's probably what she wore during her jaeger days.

Idkbutlike2
Nov 5, 2011


I think Fie's CS2 look is supposed to be an edgier take on Yuffie from FF7 or something.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009


I think Millum's outfit in CS3 is the worst of the younger girls' outfits. Probably not helped by higher-resolution models.

Also I finally solved my Ao technical issue. Turns out my computer had invented two pseudo-controllers that doesn't appear to map to anything actually plugged in. I don't know where that came from but I'm assuming I was loving around with something some time ago and it left some residue on the way out.

Anyway, time to finish my Crossbell adventure.

Japanese Dating Sim
Nov 12, 2003

hehe

Lipstick Apathy

Hello Falcom thread!

I recently completed CS2, and due to the Lloyd and Rixia part, I'm kinda tempted to go back in time and play Trails to Zero/Azure.

I mentioned this to someone, who knows I never played Trails in the Sky 3 (I played 1 and 2), and they suggested if I was going to go back I should play 3 first.

I enjoyed Sky very much: it's been years but I remember enjoying the story more, and I definitely liked Estelle more than Rean, so even if the gameplay will feel stiff compared to CS2 I don't care.

So I'm curious what y'all think. I briefly started Sky 3 and while I like Kevin, I was a bit put out that Estelle didn't seem to be a part of the story. Any thoughts on the relative quality of Trails in the Sky 3 and Trails to Zero/Azure? I am pretty set on not just going straight into 3, for whatever reason.

Terper
Jun 26, 2012



You really ought to play Sky 3 before Zero and Azure, especially if you like Estelle.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Estelle absolutely is a major part of Sky 3rd's story, just not the beginning

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Sky 3 is my favorite trails game and yeah, Estelle gets soke good stuff in it.

Supremezero
Apr 28, 2013

hay gurl


Obviously Fie's just wearing the same thing she did when she was with Zephyr.

Literally. And just kind of failed to notice that she'd grown in the interim and it no longer fits.

Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)

Japanese Dating Sim posted:

Hello Falcom thread!

I recently completed CS2, and due to the Lloyd and Rixia part, I'm kinda tempted to go back in time and play Trails to Zero/Azure.

I mentioned this to someone, who knows I never played Trails in the Sky 3 (I played 1 and 2), and they suggested if I was going to go back I should play 3 first.

I enjoyed Sky very much: it's been years but I remember enjoying the story more, and I definitely liked Estelle more than Rean, so even if the gameplay will feel stiff compared to CS2 I don't care.

So I'm curious what y'all think. I briefly started Sky 3 and while I like Kevin, I was a bit put out that Estelle didn't seem to be a part of the story. Any thoughts on the relative quality of Trails in the Sky 3 and Trails to Zero/Azure? I am pretty set on not just going straight into 3, for whatever reason.

One of the most impactful moments in Zero relies on having experienced 3rd. As others noted, Estelle is still in the game and she has some great moments. 3rd is different in structure to the other games, but it's widely beloved anyway.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I feel I can pretty confident say that Trails to Azure was my favorite Trails overall. Zero was already an outstanding game and Azure builds upon it in pretty much all of the right ways. Easily some of the most impactful story beats I've seen in the franchise up to this point, with the correct level of build up and tension for them to make them land. The conversation with Osborne during the Trade Conference is basically everything I hoped it would be and stuff like that is peppered throughout the game. At the same time, it is able to exist and stand on its own when it needs to and I grew to really love the party members, the related NPCs you constantly ran into it, and Crossbell itself. It turns out having two Trails-style games set in basically the same location for two whole games makes you get really well acquainted with both the location and the local NPCs. IMO the Crossbell games have the best party members by a country mile compared to the other games, with just about everyone you get to play as being extremely compelling with fulfilling arcs. Like, maybe Noel and Dudley are kind of boring? But Noel is still ultimately very endearing and Dudley is one of the biggest dorks in the franchise.

My misgivings would probably be:
-I think I likewise don't much care for Ian being the mastermind, when all is said and done. Though it led to one of the greatest owns I've ever seen in one of these games where Dieter got wrecked, it just felt like a twist that had to go through the motions. It ESPECIALLY fell flat when Mariabell seemingly kills him only for her to later go "haha just kidding" when she loses. It feels especially irrelevant given he has no scenes, lines, or otherwise mentions in the epilogue or anything in CS3 that I am aware of other than a broad reference to his involvement. Also Arios and Wald end being basically forgiven for warcrimes because I guess they had sad backstories (except, like, not in Wald's case??).
-I found Azure to perhaps being the most difficult Trails in a lot of ways in usually frustrating ways, sometimes with certain boss fights (if you're wondering where Cold Steel got its inspiration for its bonus AP for "knock these enemies down to a certain % within a time or turn limit", look no further) and in general with the orbments of all things. They reduced the number of quartz you could equip from 7 to 6 in Azure, with presumably the Master quarts meant to take the place of the lost one, but I don't think they balanced this properly. I constantly felt like I was lacking in my available options for artes or passives and had to make trade offs that felt unnatural in the other games. Without looking up how many equippable non-Master quartz you had in Cold steel, I feel they at the very least definitely balanced this better.

But all of this is forgiven because this is a game that heavily featured Wazy Hemisphere.

Finally, my thoughts after all is said and done about the game's placement and necessity in the other games are that no, you absolutely do not need to play these games for Cold Steel lol. The reverse (going Cold Steel->Crossbell) felt far worse because CS3 gives away some plot beats that probably land better as surprises, but the reverse really isn't true. At the end of the day the reveal of the giant loving tree that Class VII saw on the deck of the Courageous that made you think "huh, I guess a JRPG is happening over in Crossbell" turned out to be just, "a JRPG happened in Crossbell" and ultimately largely irrelevant for the events in Erebonia. The sidestory epilogue dungeon in CS2 is bad whether you know those characters or not. But (and this is the important bit that I will yell from the rooftroops until I am in my grave) who cares? You should still play the Zero/Azure games, because they are great JRPGs, and if that's not something you're up for doing why are we even having this conversation and debate.

Japanese Dating Sim
Nov 12, 2003

hehe

Lipstick Apathy

Thanks everyone, looks like Trails 3 it is. It'll be a while until I play CS3! Oh well.

Idkbutlike2
Nov 5, 2011


Nate RFB posted:

The reverse (going Cold Steel->Crossbell) felt far worse because CS3 gives away some plot beats that probably land better as surprises, but the reverse really isn't true.

I think Ao outright revealing Osborne's survival, the outcome of the Erebonian Civil War, and Crossbell's subsequent occupation was definitely CS1 and CS2 treated as important plot twists, unless you look at the latter two games as character centric stories where the politics are little more than window dressing.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Idkbutlike2 posted:

I think Ao outright revealing Osborne's survival, the outcome of the Erebonian Civil War, and Crossbell's subsequent occupation was definitely CS1 and CS2 treated as important plot twists, unless you look at the latter two games as character centric stories where the politics are little more than window dressing.
It's a weird conversation to have because, ideally/ostensibly, this is the "correct" way to experience the story. I think I would argue that Azure is vague enough about the Erebonia events that the twists still kind of work in CS but CS2's epilogue and especially CS3 more or less spell things out in a way that made it so things rang a little hollow when they happened in Azure.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


I think when they made CS1/2 and Ao/Zero take place simultaneously, that was a hint that you can play them in either order. Since CS3 takes place ahead of them both, 'ideally' you'd have played all four of those games before it.

Ultimately it's a living animal that you can experience in any order you feel like, of course.

Idkbutlike2
Nov 5, 2011


It's hard to say how much of CS1 and CS2 as final products was intended by Falcom. We know there are a ton scrapped ideas for the Erebonia arc dating back as far as the Sky trilogy's development period. It was originally meant to immediately follow Sky, which explains why characters like Lechter and Osborne show up in 3rd, but the writers wanted to further reinforce Erebonia's position of power and dominance over its neighbors, which is why Crossbell ended up happening first. The premise of the story changed considerably as well. It was originally meant to star a group of Erebonian soldiers, but this was changed to students sometime during Crossbell's development, given that Ao briefly alludes to Class VII's existence. Then the cast composition also changed. Alisa was allegedly supposed to be CS's tachi-wielding protagonist and Rean was going to have Crow's role in the story.



You can also infer some shifting character roles and possibly personalities for other supporting members of the cast. This page doesn't mention if these were the first characters designed for Class VII, but if they were, it would make sense, given the six playable characters that made it into New Class VII in CS3. I think Gu4n also mentioned that the scenario books for CS1 and CS2 mentioned a lot of plot details that weren't revealed until CS3. Overall, it makes me wonder how much different the arc would've turned out if Falcom didn't treat the first two CS games as a soft reset for the series and didn't have so much trouble with their development.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction


Alisa originally being Rean and Rean originally being Crow suddenly brings new context to Rean and Crow's obvious sexual tension.

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER

Does this also sort of mean all the Rean/Alisa baiting is them trying to make Rean date himself?

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mirello posted:

So I'm in CS2 chapter 1 now, and goddamn is fie's default outfit terrible. can someone please tell me if I'm getting new clothes for her soon? She's one of my fav characters, but I seriously feel like I'm playing a pedophile game whenver shes wearing that on screen. I really wish they'd remove all the loli/ brother sister stuff from the games. It worked in sky because joshua and estelle met at 12, but it really doesnt work for me if they actually grew up together. other than that game is fun so far, but I'm getting pretty tired of Rean. definately doesn't hold a candle to lloyd or estelle.

just getting back to this for a sec: I think it helps that, looking at the cast as a whole, Trails is clearly all about the dilfs and milfs

FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!


I finished Cold Steel 3 yesterday, I think I would have been very angry if I was a japanese player who bought it on launch day. The wait for 4 seems manageable. I still haven't played any of the Crossbell games, how difficult is it to get them running actually?

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Something else I'd like to mention now that I'm on the other side, on the topic of the overall cast of characters being cool it was a nice change of pace in having a protagonist who is actually like hyper competent in Lloyd. His main flaws are being the equivalent of a bumbling harem romantic lead when it comes to romance but otherwise the games do a very good job of playing up what he's actually supposed to be: a detective, one who has to intuit things and read between the lines on a lot of threads/mysteries. And even those romance hijinx I feel somehow wound up being rather endearing by the time of Azure.

FrickenMoron posted:

I finished Cold Steel 3 yesterday, I think I would have been very angry if I was a japanese player who bought it on launch day. The wait for 4 seems manageable. I still haven't played any of the Crossbell games, how difficult is it to get them running actually?
Zero was pretty painless, you download the game itself from DLsite or the like, and point the Geofront launcher to it. The only real pain is you can't move the launcher folder afterwards so uh make sure you put it in the place you want it to be for playing Zero rather than just your Downloads folder or whatever like I did at first.

Ao/Azure is more complicated because there's no way to do that first step (download it from a legal source) and people have been playing a version of the Chinese PC release that has been pre-patched with a translation. Once you actually get this version you need to update it with some other stuff: https://imgur.com/a/o7hWchz , which is not like actually that complicated but it is an added step.

Mirello
Jan 29, 2006
The Nameless One


Nate RFB posted:

Something else I'd like to mention now that I'm on the other side, on the topic of the overall cast of characters being cool it was a nice change of pace in having a protagonist who is actually like hyper competent in Lloyd. His main flaws are being the equivalent of a bumbling harem romantic lead when it comes to romance but otherwise the games do a very good job of playing up what he's actually supposed to be: a detective, one who has to intuit things and read between the lines on a lot of threads/mysteries. And even those romance hijinx I feel somehow wound up being rather endearing by the time of Azure.


Yeah I'm planning a big post on my thoughts after I finish cs3 but as someone in the middle of cs2, rean is annoying as gently caress. I'd literally rather anyone else be the main character than him. He's basically just god:everyone loves him and he's chosen but for no good reason. I'm also finding that all the cheesy speeches, which I really liked in previous games, don't really hit. I can totally predict them now and they almost seem like solutions to fake problems.

He really compares unfavorably to Lloyd, who had both an interesting background and was smart as hell. Trying to live up to his brother and then realizing that he was a different kind of guy. Really excellent work with him. So far I'm finding the writing in Cs measuring poorly even compared to the "crappy" so translation. Oh well I still enjoy it, so I shouldn't complain too much.

FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!


In my opinion he gets better in CS3. CS2 is really the low point of the series overall for me.

Taear
Nov 26, 2004

Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!


FrickenMoron posted:

I finished Cold Steel 3 yesterday, I think I would have been very angry if I was a japanese player who bought it on launch day. The wait for 4 seems manageable. I still haven't played any of the Crossbell games, how difficult is it to get them running actually?

It coming out in 2021 for the PC still feels like a really long time.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I like Rean a lot. He's just this generally very likeable guy and it makes sense that people gravitate to him for that charisma. But of course if he were just that he'd maybe just be another Gaius who talks about wind a little bit less, it's sort of his surrounding circumstances (how by the end of CS3 he's very much His Smile And Optimism: Gone made manifest as a protagonist) that make him a much more textured take on that sort of anime-speech-giving shounen protag. Professor Rean is also a very good take on him and I knew CS3's heart was in the right place when he put on fake glasses to look smart and got immediately called out on it.

MechaX
Nov 19, 2011

"Let's be positive! Let's start a fire!"


I finished Persona 5 Royal and was still itching for some RPG action (yeah, I’ll be playing Xenoblade next week but I still want something new).

And after thinking it over, I think I’ll make a serious attempt to get into the Trails series for the first time. I’ll figure out if I just want to start with Sky or Cold Steel on my own, but I did have one big question, and you can be honest with me; are the conclusions for Sky 3 and Cold Steel 4 pretty satisfying? I remember reading one long rant on Import CS4 a while ago on Resetera or some place and my thought was “man I would probably be pissed as hell to play 4 JRPGs only for it to pull a Mass Effect 3 like this poster is saying”

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sky 3's conclusion is easily one of the best in the whole series; the only reason I'm not saying it's the very best is because I've got no idea on CS4's

Hwurmp fucked around with this message at 14:04 on May 22, 2020

FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!


MechaX posted:

I finished Persona 5 Royal and was still itching for some RPG action (yeah, I’ll be playing Xenoblade next week but I still want something new).

And after thinking it over, I think I’ll make a serious attempt to get into the Trails series for the first time. I’ll figure out if I just want to start with Sky or Cold Steel on my own, but I did have one big question, and you can be honest with me; are the conclusions for Sky 3 and Cold Steel 4 pretty satisfying? I remember reading one long rant on Import CS4 a while ago on Resetera or some place and my thought was “man I would probably be pissed as hell to play 4 JRPGs only for it to pull a Mass Effect 3 like this poster is saying”

Start with sky FC, it has a bit of a slow start but is also the shortest in the series overall so it's good if you want to get through it in a week.

Idkbutlike2
Nov 5, 2011


MechaX posted:

but I did have one big question, and you can be honest with me; are the conclusions for Sky 3 and Cold Steel 4 pretty satisfying? I remember reading one long rant on Import CS4 a while ago on Resetera or some place and my thought was “man I would probably be pissed as hell to play 4 JRPGs only for it to pull a Mass Effect 3 like this poster is saying”

Sky 3rd's ending is very good. CS4, on the other hand, is divisive as all hell as a game. I can't really go into detail on why without massive spoilers, but let's just a say a lot were disappointed with its plot and overall writing.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010


Mirello posted:

Yeah I'm planning a big post on my thoughts after I finish cs3 but as someone in the middle of cs2, rean is annoying as gently caress. I'd literally rather anyone else be the main character than him. He's basically just god:everyone loves him and he's chosen but for no good reason. I'm also finding that all the cheesy speeches, which I really liked in previous games, don't really hit. I can totally predict them now and they almost seem like solutions to fake problems.

He really compares unfavorably to Lloyd, who had both an interesting background and was smart as hell. Trying to live up to his brother and then realizing that he was a different kind of guy. Really excellent work with him. So far I'm finding the writing in Cs measuring poorly even compared to the "crappy" so translation. Oh well I still enjoy it, so I shouldn't complain too much.

“My name is Rean Schwarzer, and I have to make another anime speech because I’m compelled to have an opinion about everything.”

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Rean is cute and sweet and i get why girls like him, which goes a long way

They do overdo it with some characters though. im glad i already know Duvalie isnt a romance option in cs4 cause her suddenly apparently having a crush on rean after meeting him two times is stupid as hell.

Idkbutlike2
Nov 5, 2011


Endorph posted:

They do overdo it with some characters though. im glad i already know Duvalie isnt a romance option in cs4 cause her suddenly apparently having a crush on rean after meeting him two times is stupid as hell.

I mean, that's okay, cause at least two of his female students, all but one of his former female classmates, his old teacher, his former student council president and coworker, his sister, and possibly the crown princess of Erebonia are all up for grabs.. Harem poo poo sucks.

BearDrivingTruck
Oct 15, 2011

Don't touch me now
Don't hold me now
Don't break the spell darling, now you are near
Look in my eyes
And speak to me
Those special promises I long to hear

Las palabras de amor

Fallen Rib

I view that harem stuff as a failure of the writing, and not really a failure of Rean as his own character separate from that. I like Rean as a character! He's a good person! And I guess the harem stuff feels so tacked on to a point where that distinction comes more easily to me, is what I'm trying to say.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Idkbutlike2 posted:

I mean, that's okay, cause at least two of his female students, all but one of his former female classmates, his old teacher, his former student council president and coworker, his sister, and possibly the crown princess of Erebonia are all up for grabs.. Harem poo poo sucks.
The only one of those I really have a problem with is Elise and Sara. All the Class 7 members + Towa make total sense, given how long they spent together and the fact that he got some pretty emotional scenes with all of them.

I will say that if they wanted to do this whole dating sim side element to the Erebonia games, just limiting it to like, four choices max like an actual dating sim would have gone a long way. You could make more individualized content. Plus there's some choices where it makes sense but it doesn't really have any kind of interesting angle to it, like Rean/Laura.

IMO cutting the characters who are actually interested in Rean down to just Alisa and Towa would have been the best option, they're two pretty different characters and they're both around enough, and you could have had some real splits in terms of who talks to Rean at certain times and stuff, maybe even very mild plot variations, but you could have gone up to four or five. Like, Alisa/Towa/Claire/Alfin/idk, Musse? Plenty of variety there and you could still have some mild unique dialogue/scenes.

There's some options that are just kinda there in CS as it stands.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 15:04 on May 22, 2020

Idkbutlike2
Nov 5, 2011


BearDrivingTruck posted:

I view that harem stuff as a failure of the writing, and not really a failure of Rean as his own character separate from that.

Well, it's kind of hard to separate him from that when things like bonding events account for major aspects of both his personal and interpersonal development as a character. Then there's all the power fantasy poo poo like his hero speeches, his dark and mysterious superpowers, his giant mech, and his background and lineage that add up to this aggrandized clusterfuck of a character. CS's story can't decide whether it wants Rean to a nonchalant and kindhearted busybody, a charismatic celebrity, or a depressed loner with a dark past, so it flip flips these aspects of him at its convenience. Combined with all the harem stuff, it's easy to see Rean as this overblown self-insert character, even though that's likely not the intent...

...or maybe it is and Falcom just wanted those sweet delicious otaku bucks after a decade of poor financial performance. Who knows?

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010



Idkbutlike2 posted:

CS's story can't decide whether it wants Rean to a nonchalant and kindhearted busybody, a charismatic celebrity, or a depressed loner with a dark past, so it flip flips these aspects of him at its convenience.
i don't see this at all. rean is perfectly consistent as a character.

Ojetor
Aug 4, 2010

Return of the Sensei



Ao/CS3 (maybe CS4?) spoiler question: So I know Mariabell ends up becoming the third Anguis as the replacement for Weissmann, at some point before CS3 (during CS3, they mention Vita being outvoted 6 to 1 by the Anguis WRT the Phantasmal Blaze plan, which implies there is a third Anguis already). I figured this would get revealed during Ao, but it isn't (or I missed it). The way Campanella and Arianrhod talk during the final chapter of Ao, it doesn't seem like Mariabell is the third Anguis yet, since they mention Ouroboros is no longer directly involved with events in Crossbell and what's happening is not their plan. Unless they mean that this is Bell's personal plan and not Ouroboros' as an organization? There's a small hint towards this during the final dungeon when you beat Shirley. Shirley says something like "Maybe I should take her up on her offer", by which I assume she's hinting Mariabell offered her a spot as an Enforcer. Which we know she ends up taking, as we see later in CS3. But if this is true, this also implies that Bell's already the 3rd Anguis, unless the offer actually came from Arianrhod instead. Which seems unlikely to me given Arianrhod's noble knight shtick. So where does this bit of information actually get revealed? Is it a NG+ scene or something?

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

It was interesting playing Zero/Azure and seeing a lot of this sort of incubating there; Lloyd has multiple romance options that are dictated by bond levels, but it's way more restrictive and opaque because you have only a handful of ways and places you can influence them and it's hidden away like Law/Chaos levels in SMT; Cold Steel is far more transparent and doesn't lock you out of options at the end. But on other hand Zero/Azure having a far smaller cast makes it work way better and feel more organic, none of them feel really out of place given the way events in the story progress.

Ojetor posted:

I figured this would get revealed during Ao, but it isn't (or I missed it).
(Ao)When she makes her exit at the very end after you beat the final boss, Mariabell says she is joining Ouroboros to fill in for the "missing Anguis".

Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 15:45 on May 22, 2020

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Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)

Ojetor posted:

Ao/CS3 (maybe CS4?) spoiler question: So I know Mariabell ends up becoming the third Anguis as the replacement for Weissmann, at some point before CS3 (during CS3, they mention Vita being outvoted 6 to 1 by the Anguis WRT the Phantasmal Blaze plan, which implies there is a third Anguis already). I figured this would get revealed during Ao, but it isn't (or I missed it). The way Campanella and Arianrhod talk during the final chapter of Ao, it doesn't seem like Mariabell is the third Anguis yet, since they mention Ouroboros is no longer directly involved with events in Crossbell and what's happening is not their plan. Unless they mean that this is Bell's personal plan and not Ouroboros' as an organization? There's a small hint towards this during the final dungeon when you beat Shirley. Shirley says something like "Maybe I should take her up on her offer", by which I assume she's hinting Mariabell offered her a spot as an Enforcer. Which we know she ends up taking, as we see later in CS3. But if this is true, this also implies that Bell's already the 3rd Anguis, unless the offer actually came from Arianrhod instead. Which seems unlikely to me given Arianrhod's noble knight shtick. So where does this bit of information actually get revealed? Is it a NG+ scene or something?

It's revealed in Ao after you beat the final boss. Right before said character makes her exit, she mentions this particular job opening and the fact she's taking it.

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