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Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



LVG made some "interesting" comments in his pre-CSKA press conference.

LVG posted:

Rooney is our captain but also an example for the whole team, he has more credits than any other player. I have explained that to the group already, one and a half years ago. I still have confidence in Wayne Rooney.

Also apparently United totes can attack because / but it's a process. Starting to get a bit tired of that line after 18 months of process.

LVG posted:

Until now there is always progress. I can remind you of the fact that you were saying, “Defending, defending, that is the problem", now we are the best defenders of the Premier League, you are saying that we cannot attack. No, it is not true. It is only a moment in the process.

Also, Memphis was dropped from the Dutch national team recently and according to the manager, the reasons aren't surprising.

Danny Blind posted:

I think Depay is a player for the future. But there are other issues to look at. Perhaps Louis van Gaal has also said something.

In football you must function in a team. He doesn’t always do that. I have also told him when I called him to say he’s not in there. That’s something he has to learn.

I mean, he's not wrong. Blind is spot on in saying Memphis needs to be more of a team player, but I can't help but wonder if it'll help his confidence to hear that LVG is talking smack about him to people. Here's hoping he'll take it as a wake up call.

Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Nov 3, 2015

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TheBigAristotle
Feb 8, 2007

I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money.
I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.

Grimey Drawer
I like Van Gaal, but this whole process nonsense needs to stop. Maybe if Schneiderlin is injured, Herrera will move back and Rooney will play in the hole. If he's not gonna drop him to the bench, at least get Martial in there to control Martial's sick passes oh wait poo poo

Breath Ray
Nov 19, 2010
what are you brainiacs expecting lvg to say... : /

TwoDogs1Cup
May 28, 2008

DOUGIE DOUGIE DOUGIE! MY LOVE, HE MAKES MY EMPTY HEART FULL! DOUGIE! THE BEST FOREVER THE BEST DOUGIEEE! <3 <3 - TwoDougies1Cup
Is lvg staying on next season?

Breath Ray
Nov 19, 2010
not sure. if he leaves us with CL football, de gea and martial it'll have been a fair couple of years with an eye on stability...then we get sparky in and bobs your uncle

hadji murad
Apr 18, 2006
I'm kinda disappointed by the jillion bad things surrounding the champs but I had a daughter in July and she's awesome so I kinda don't give a gently caress.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Shrapnig
Jan 21, 2005

hadji murad posted:

I'm kinda disappointed by the jillion bad things surrounding the champs but I had a daughter in July and she's awesome so I kinda don't give a gently caress.

Ok.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Ewar Woowar
Feb 25, 2007

hadji murad posted:

I'm kinda disappointed by the jillion bad things surrounding the champs but I had a daughter in July and she's awesome so I kinda don't give a gently caress.

Are you...are you just happy to be here?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Skip My Posts
Aug 15, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

hadji murad posted:

I'm kinda disappointed by the jillion bad things surrounding the champs but I had a daughter in July and she's awesome so I kinda don't give a gently caress.

congrats to you and your husband

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

mang
Jul 21, 2015

hadji murad posted:

I'm kinda disappointed by the jillion bad things surrounding the champs but I had a daughter in July and she's awesome so I kinda don't give a gently caress.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

didnt know they were letting gay couples adopt now, congrats to you and yours!

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

quiet enjoyment
May 11, 2009
Erm. Anyway. Quite excited for the midweek clash against Bayern. Even with Theo and the Ox out of commission we have got a chance again to score and win. JC will have another start and hopefully work as hard as he did against Swansea. A clean sheet would be would be fantastic, hopefully we don't lose our nerve and make the same kinds of mistakes we were making in the first half of the Swansea game.

We don't have much of a bench anymore which is scary. We've got to do some business in the winter but the chances are once again slim to none...

Welp, no matter the result I'm optimistic about the derby on Sunday as well. #COYG

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



TwoDogs1Cup posted:

Is lvg staying on next season?

His contract runs until the end of the 2016-2017 season so barring a firing yes.

PlantHead
Jan 2, 2004

Der Shovel posted:

His contract runs until the end of the 2016-2017 season so barring a firing yes.

He said that he would finish his contract and then retire, so next season would be his last.
http://www.espnfc.com/manchester-united/story/2537810/louis-van-gaal-to-retire-when-man-united-contract-ends

Blue Star Error
Jun 11, 2001

For this recipie you will need:
Football match (Halftime of), Celebrity Owner (Motivational speaking of), Sherry (Bottle of)

PlantHead posted:

He said that he would finish his contract and then retire, so next season would be his last.
http://www.espnfc.com/manchester-united/story/2537810/louis-van-gaal-to-retire-when-man-united-contract-ends

In that case, David Moyes has won more trophies for Man U than Van Gaal has and will

Machinegunboyo
Apr 26, 2010


life is good
Word is that fabregas is a big player in the little revolt against mourinho. Wengy knew...

Ewar Woowar
Feb 25, 2007

Machinegunboyo posted:

Word is that fabregas is a big player in the little revolt against mourinho. Wengy knew...

He's really turned into a massive piece of poo poo hasn't he?

Xabi
Jan 21, 2006

Inventor of the Marmite pasty
Well, yes, he is a poo poo but so is Mourinho. Who is more of a poo poo than the other? Is it a poo poo draw?

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



Breath Ray posted:

what are you brainiacs expecting lvg to say... : /

Something other than "it's a process" over and over again. He's been managing United for 18 months now and it's not like he's tinkering with the lineup every week. He's largely set on the system, formation and lineup he prefers with substitutions happening like clockwork. And it's not like the team is constantly playing better, either. All the evidence we can see points at this being the way he wants United to play.

It's not a process. It's a team playing dull and boring football where avoiding risks and mistakes trumps creativity and creating opportunities. It's a system where possession is king. That picture with United being ranked number 1 or 2 in the league in possession and sideways/backwards passes and 19th or 20th in shots and chances created speaks volumes.

E: I'm not saying "LVG out" or that he's doing a terrible job as manager. I'm just saying the excuse is wearing thin and I'm starting to worry that he's not deflecting criticism and protecting the team, but actually believes what he's saying when he states that United were the better team against Chelsea despite losing, because they had 65% possession or whatever.

Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Nov 3, 2015

Breath Ray
Nov 19, 2010

Der Shovel posted:

Something other than "it's a process" over and over again. He's been managing United for 18 months now and it's not like he's tinkering with the lineup every week. He's largely set on the system, formation and lineup he prefers with substitutions happening like clockwork. And it's not like the team is constantly playing better, either. All the evidence we can see points at this being the way he wants United to play.

It's not a process. It's a team playing dull and boring football where avoiding risks and mistakes trumps creativity and creating opportunities. It's a system where possession is king. That picture with United being ranked number 1 or 2 in the league in possession and sideways/backwards passes and 19th or 20th in shots and chances created speaks volumes.

E: I'm not saying "LVG out" or that he's doing a terrible job as manager. I'm just saying the excuse is wearing thin and I'm starting to worry that he's not deflecting criticism and protecting the team, but actually believes what he's saying when he states that United were the better team against Chelsea despite losing, because they had 65% possession or whatever.

Ok but can you be specific about what he should have said? Take your time and really think about it.

hadji murad
Apr 18, 2006

Machinegunboyo posted:

Word is that fabregas is a big player in the little revolt against mourinho. Wengy knew...

Seems totally likely that one of Jose's most trusted players who can't get dropped would have the dressing room power to stage a coup 1.5 years after joining the club.


Also Cesc just released a statement.

Thirteenth Step
Mar 3, 2004

I'm happy that even though we're not the best at the minute Villa's hilarious form makes me feel better.

Also the fact that the 'New Manager Bounce™' will be almost wasted on the fact they've got Man City, Everton, Arsenal and Southampton among their next few fixtures.

Just thinking back to all those badly photoshopped pitures on Facebook of Tim Sherwood's head over Jordan Belfort's head in Wolf of Wall Street. Feels good.

Breath Ray
Nov 19, 2010
I reckon IF there's a splitter, its one of the Balkan players; sectarian conflict is their byword. Begovic has been great in goal but Matic seems to have 'lost it' psychologically and has been poor both disciplinarily and football wise. He was also thrown under the bus by mourinho, but don't worry - it was parked at the time !

Machinegunboyo
Apr 26, 2010


life is good

hadji murad posted:

Seems totally likely that one of Jose's most trusted players who can't get dropped would have the dressing room power to stage a coup 1.5 years after joining the club.


Also Cesc just released a statement.

Oh wow, he's released a statement already? Seems a bit strange considering it had barely gathered any momentum. You have to admit, that seems like a pretty guilty conscious. That dressing room is lost at this point. Joke of a club.

Thirteenth Step
Mar 3, 2004

I think it's Matic; he looks like a bit of a poo poo-stirring oval office.

Breath Ray
Nov 19, 2010
I just said that 13 step!! Lurk more.

Man U and the process...last season Wednesday went down 8-0 to man city in the cup, I forget which, and it really knocked us for six - literally! (We didn't win a game for 6 weeks after.) But we did secure a long series of goalless draws. So I think that's a natural reaction to a heavy beating like the one arsenal inflicted on the red devils. I don't think it makes sense to expect a crescendo of performances in any aspect of life. And a few backward passes are OK IMO if it keeps possession. We all saw what happened with Liverpool when they scored goals for fun - they also conceded a lot and finished second.

The Big Taff Man
Nov 22, 2005


Official Manchester United Posting Partner 2015/16
Fan of Britches

Der Shovel posted:

Also, Memphis was dropped from the Dutch national team recently and according to the manager, the reasons aren't surprising.


I mean, he's not wrong. Blind is spot on in saying Memphis needs to be more of a team player, but I can't help but wonder if it'll help his confidence to hear that LVG is talking smack about him to people. Here's hoping he'll take it as a wake up call.

Memphis has played the same way since his first game. In recent times he's been substituted because of how poor he's been. Its like you dont even watch the games.

Der Shovel posted:

Something other than "it's a process" over and over again. He's been managing United for 18 months now and it's not like he's tinkering with the lineup every week. He's largely set on the system, formation and lineup he prefers with substitutions happening like clockwork. And it's not like the team is constantly playing better, either. All the evidence we can see points at this being the way he wants United to play.

It's not a process. It's a team playing dull and boring football where avoiding risks and mistakes trumps creativity and creating opportunities. It's a system where possession is king. That picture with United being ranked number 1 or 2 in the league in possession and sideways/backwards passes and 19th or 20th in shots and chances created speaks volumes.

E: I'm not saying "LVG out" or that he's doing a terrible job as manager. I'm just saying the excuse is wearing thin and I'm starting to worry that he's not deflecting criticism and protecting the team, but actually believes what he's saying when he states that United were the better team against Chelsea despite losing, because they had 65% possession or whatever.

Jesus Christ

He's building a team up again, its a process that will take time. If you want instant results you're better off going and supporting City.

Fergie did wonders with a poor team in his last year, he hadnt addressed the midfield issues in ages, we'd been crying out for centre midfielders for years. Moyes time at the club took us backwards.

LVG has stemmed the backwards flow, addressed the midfield issue, and turned a defense that looked shaky into a good unit. Some of the football we have played has been poor, but the stuff in Moyes season was loving awful. You say Van Gaal uses his substitutions like clockwork (which I think is bollocks too so I'd love your reasoning for this) but Moyes made the same changes pretty much every match.

Im sick of people talking about Rooney to be honest. What about how bad Memphis has been, or Darmian in recent matches? Its not like taking Rooney out instantly makes us a better team

TheBigAristotle posted:

I like Van Gaal, but this whole process nonsense needs to stop. Maybe if Schneiderlin is injured, Herrera will move back and Rooney will play in the hole. If he's not gonna drop him to the bench, at least get Martial in there to control Martial's sick passes oh wait poo poo

This is all well and good, but you dont address all the issues. In the deep lying midfield two Herrera has looked poor, he's not as defensive sound as the other three. You play Martial up top and who are you playing on the left? Memphis whos been as ineffective as Rooney?

Strawman
Feb 9, 2008

Tortuga means turtle, and that's me. I take my time but I always win.


The Big Taff Man posted:

Its not like taking Rooney out instantly makes us a better team

That's exactly what It's like, and everyone except you and lvg can see it

The Big Taff Man
Nov 22, 2005


Official Manchester United Posting Partner 2015/16
Fan of Britches

Strawman posted:

That's exactly what It's like, and everyone except you and lvg can see it

Imo the problem is in the system rather than Rooney, and the system works better when its adapted to suit Martial up front. I'm by no means saying Rooney shouldnt be dropped. I'd drop him, or substitute him in some of the games he's played this season. At the very least he should be playing in the number 10 role rather than the number 9, he's just not suited to being isolated up there on his own.

The problem is in the system and the total unwillingness of some of the players to take risks. I love Herrera and think he will be a great player but he's one of the worst offenders at passing the ball sideways or backwards when theres forward movement. The amount of times we have the ball outside the area and you can hear the whole stadium shouting shoot and the ball again goes sideways is frustrating. Its like we're trying to pass it in.

Modern football is poo poo, bring back the 90s

Bogan Krkic
Oct 31, 2010

Swedish style? No.
Yugoslavian style? Of course not.
It has to be Zlatan-style.

Modern football is great, it's United that are poo poo

The Big Taff Man
Nov 22, 2005


Official Manchester United Posting Partner 2015/16
Fan of Britches

Bogan Krkic posted:

Modern football is great, it's United that are poo poo

I disagree completely, Barcelonas style of play has ruined football and the 4231 that everyone plays now leads to boring uninspiring football, bring back two men strike partnerships.

Bogan Krkic
Oct 31, 2010

Swedish style? No.
Yugoslavian style? Of course not.
It has to be Zlatan-style.

The Big Taff Man posted:

I disagree completely, Barcelonas style of play has ruined football and the 4231 that everyone plays now leads to boring uninspiring football, bring back two men strike partnerships.

West Ham are playing with a 4231 and playing the most entertaining football since Zola and I'm having lots of fun watching it. Formations aren't inherently boring, it's the managers who are scared to fail and instruct the teams to play that way, or the players who don't have the skill or nous or initiative to take the game to an opposition that are the boring part

Lot 49
Dec 7, 2007

I'll do anything
For my sweet sixteen

The Big Taff Man posted:

The problem is in the system and the total unwillingness of some of the players to take risks. I love Herrera and think he will be a great player but he's one of the worst offenders at passing the ball sideways or backwards when theres forward movement. The amount of times we have the ball outside the area and you can hear the whole stadium shouting shoot and the ball again goes sideways is frustrating. Its like we're trying to pass it in.

You know that this is more or less what Der Shovel posted and you tried to take him to task over it?

Anyway, what's the atmosphere like inside OT atm? Are either of Van Gaal or Rooney getting much stick from match going fans yet or is that still largely confined to forums and twitter?

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
If newcastle sign julian speroni instead of victor valdes as an emergency loan i'm going to be mad

ayb
Sep 12, 2003
Kills Drifters for erections
Rooneys decline has been happening over the last couple of years so it's not terribly surprising. Darmian going from amazing to poo poo is way more worrisome. Getting dropped for Valencia probably didn't help his confidence either

The Big Taff Man
Nov 22, 2005


Official Manchester United Posting Partner 2015/16
Fan of Britches

Lot 49 posted:

You know that this is more or less what Der Shovel posted and you tried to take him to task over it?

Anyway, what's the atmosphere like inside OT atm? Are either of Van Gaal or Rooney getting much stick from match going fans yet or is that still largely confined to forums and twitter?

No what I'm taking him to task is that everything has to be instant. I dont think the issue with the players not taking risks can always be put at LVGs door, indeed in recent games he questioned why the team dont shoot more from outside the box, and questioned Herrera for not taking a chance. Yet when he does that he gets criticised by other posters here for having a go at a player. I think theres too little belief in the players themselves. At the end of the day we're in 4th place, we held City at home and I think theres a lot of positives. We were a very outside shot for a title challenge at the start of the season and its still the same now.

People talking about Rooney being the only issue just annoys me. Darmian blew us the game against Arsenal.

I dont hear any stick for Van Gaal. People are getting frustrated in my section that its never Rooney that gets subbed, but everyone still seems to believe in him as a player. Theres audible groans whenever Fellaini comes off the bench. The crowd love Schweinsteiger.

Bogan Krkic posted:

West Ham are playing with a 4231 and playing the most entertaining football since Zola and I'm having lots of fun watching it. Formations aren't inherently boring, it's the managers who are scared to fail and instruct the teams to play that way, or the players who don't have the skill or nous or initiative to take the game to an opposition that are the boring part

I thought you'd been playing a 442 diamond or 433 tbh

blue footed boobie
Sep 14, 2012


UEFA SUPREMACY

The Big Taff Man posted:

No what I'm taking him to task is that everything has to be instant. I dont think the issue with the players not taking risks can always be put at LVGs door, indeed in recent games he questioned why the team dont shoot more from outside the box, and questioned Herrera for not taking a chance.

It's a much simpler and more logical conclusion that lvg's system makes players avoid risks rather than assuming that United have acquired a bunch of risk adverse players.

Hashtag Banterzone
Dec 8, 2005


Lifetime Winner of the willkill4food Honorary Bad Posting Award in PWM

blue footed boobie posted:

It's a much simpler and more logical conclusion that lvg's system makes players avoid risks rather than assuming that United have acquired a bunch of risk adverse players.

United need a Benzema, a Giggs, a Ribery, an Icardi or a Chad Evans

Bogan Krkic
Oct 31, 2010

Swedish style? No.
Yugoslavian style? Of course not.
It has to be Zlatan-style.

The Big Taff Man posted:

No what I'm taking him to task is that everything has to be instant. I dont think the issue with the players not taking risks can always be put at LVGs door, indeed in recent games he questioned why the team dont shoot more from outside the box, and questioned Herrera for not taking a chance. Yet when he does that he gets criticised by other posters here for having a go at a player. I think theres too little belief in the players themselves. At the end of the day we're in 4th place, we held City at home and I think theres a lot of positives. We were a very outside shot for a title challenge at the start of the season and its still the same now.

It's possible that van Gaal is being criticized because he is publicly admitting he doesn't know why his team aren't doing things, which seems to suggest either his team aren't doing what he tells them to do, or are and are then being made scapegoats when it goes wrong. Going on to then publicly criticize a player (which, putting aside this being basic bad man-management, has backfired spectacularly for Mourinho this season) only reinforces the idea that LVG doesn't quite have the ability to get his team to play the way he wants them to, and doesn't quite know how to handle either the press or his players. There's plenty of posters who aren't United fans, and hardly seem to be ABUs, chiming in to say that LVG doesn't look all that impressive.

He's still got United back into the top 4 and is a million times better than Moyes mind, so maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle?

The Big Taff Man posted:

I thought you'd been playing a 442 diamond or 433 tbh

Big Sam had us in a 442 diamond last season but its Payet Moses and Lanzini behind Sakho now. The two clubs I watch every week are both playing a 4231, and the one I watch in person won the title last season with that formation playing arguably the best football seen as yet in the league. Suggesting that putting 2 up front automatically leads to more exciting football is daft and naive.

Gigi Galli
Sep 19, 2003

and then the car turned in to fire
So what happened to Darmian? He was great for Italy when he last played but that was a while ago. Has he let the initial success go to his head?

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Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



The Big Taff Man posted:

Memphis has played the same way since his first game. In recent times he's been substituted because of how poor he's been. Its like you dont even watch the games.

"Memphis was dropped [...] the reasons aren't surprising. [...] Blind is spot on."

I agree with you that he's been poo poo, and I think the reasons for that are largely mental. He's got all the tools to be a great player but he's making the wrong decisions, and I hope that this is the wake up call he needs. But at the same time I'm worried this will just make him even worse because hearing in a roundabout way that his manager is talking poo poo about him to his national team manager probably won't do wonders to his confidence.

The Big Taff Man posted:

He's building a team up again, its a process that will take time.

That is my point of contention: I'm not convinced he can get it done. I agree he's done a lot right: the defence looks good (although I think that's largely down to DDG and Smalling being in insane form, United as a whole have looked pretty shaky in many games), he did do what Fergie and Moyes steadfastly refused to do and bought midfielders. He's done many good things. United's attacking play just isn't one of those things.

Many pundits and ex-Reds have voiced their similar concerns: that LVG has the team playing boring and robotic football, that the players look afraid of making mistakes and that United are loving up by trying to retain possession at all cost, without then doing much with that possession. The attacking football is dire, and where I disagree with you is that I don't think he's going to make it much better.

I'm not saying he's happy with United going goalless for three games in a row now, or that he's chuffed United only had two shots on goal total in the past two PL games. I'm saying his system isn't likely to produce the kind of free-flowing attacking football many United supporters expect and like, and that having tons of possession and a couple of shots on goal is what we'll likely get.

And I hope to God I'm talking bollocks and as wrong as wrong can be.

quote:

You say Van Gaal uses his substitutions like clockwork (which I think is bollocks too so I'd love your reasoning for this) but Moyes made the same changes pretty much every match.

My reasoning for this is that it's pretty much a guarantee that if, for instance, Fellaini doesn't start the game, he'll come on around the 60th minute and usually doesn't help the game at all. Moyes was worse, but is that really a good defence? Saying someone is better than one of the biggest failures in EPL history isn't much of a merit IMO.

The Big Taff Man posted:

Im sick of people talking about Rooney to be honest. What about how bad Memphis has been, or Darmian in recent matches? Its not like taking Rooney out instantly makes us a better team

I disagree. Taking Rooney out would instantly make United a better team, because he is currently utterly useless. It wouldn't immediately make United amazing because he's not the only player playing below their level (or the level they would need to be playing at), but he is a crucial player and is supposed to be playing a crucial role in the team. When he can't even get 5 meter passes right, that's a loving huge problem.

Fake edit: also what Bogan Krkic said.

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