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Der Shovel posted:Also, Memphis was dropped from the Dutch national team recently and according to the manager, the reasons aren't surprising. Memphis has played the same way since his first game. In recent times he's been substituted because of how poor he's been. Its like you dont even watch the games. Der Shovel posted:Something other than "it's a process" over and over again. He's been managing United for 18 months now and it's not like he's tinkering with the lineup every week. He's largely set on the system, formation and lineup he prefers with substitutions happening like clockwork. And it's not like the team is constantly playing better, either. All the evidence we can see points at this being the way he wants United to play. Jesus Christ He's building a team up again, its a process that will take time. If you want instant results you're better off going and supporting City. Fergie did wonders with a poor team in his last year, he hadnt addressed the midfield issues in ages, we'd been crying out for centre midfielders for years. Moyes time at the club took us backwards. LVG has stemmed the backwards flow, addressed the midfield issue, and turned a defense that looked shaky into a good unit. Some of the football we have played has been poor, but the stuff in Moyes season was loving awful. You say Van Gaal uses his substitutions like clockwork (which I think is bollocks too so I'd love your reasoning for this) but Moyes made the same changes pretty much every match. Im sick of people talking about Rooney to be honest. What about how bad Memphis has been, or Darmian in recent matches? Its not like taking Rooney out instantly makes us a better team TheBigAristotle posted:I like Van Gaal, but this whole process nonsense needs to stop. Maybe if Schneiderlin is injured, Herrera will move back and Rooney will play in the hole. If he's not gonna drop him to the bench, at least get Martial in there to control Martial's sick passes oh wait poo poo This is all well and good, but you dont address all the issues. In the deep lying midfield two Herrera has looked poor, he's not as defensive sound as the other three. You play Martial up top and who are you playing on the left? Memphis whos been as ineffective as Rooney?
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Nov 3, 2015 12:57
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Strawman posted:That's exactly what It's like, and everyone except you and lvg can see it Imo the problem is in the system rather than Rooney, and the system works better when its adapted to suit Martial up front. I'm by no means saying Rooney shouldnt be dropped. I'd drop him, or substitute him in some of the games he's played this season. At the very least he should be playing in the number 10 role rather than the number 9, he's just not suited to being isolated up there on his own. The problem is in the system and the total unwillingness of some of the players to take risks. I love Herrera and think he will be a great player but he's one of the worst offenders at passing the ball sideways or backwards when theres forward movement. The amount of times we have the ball outside the area and you can hear the whole stadium shouting shoot and the ball again goes sideways is frustrating. Its like we're trying to pass it in. Modern football is poo poo, bring back the 90s
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Nov 3, 2015 13:44
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Bogan Krkic posted:Modern football is great, it's United that are poo poo I disagree completely, Barcelonas style of play has ruined football and the 4231 that everyone plays now leads to boring uninspiring football, bring back two men strike partnerships.
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Nov 3, 2015 13:48
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Lot 49 posted:You know that this is more or less what Der Shovel posted and you tried to take him to task over it? No what I'm taking him to task is that everything has to be instant. I dont think the issue with the players not taking risks can always be put at LVGs door, indeed in recent games he questioned why the team dont shoot more from outside the box, and questioned Herrera for not taking a chance. Yet when he does that he gets criticised by other posters here for having a go at a player. I think theres too little belief in the players themselves. At the end of the day we're in 4th place, we held City at home and I think theres a lot of positives. We were a very outside shot for a title challenge at the start of the season and its still the same now. People talking about Rooney being the only issue just annoys me. Darmian blew us the game against Arsenal. I dont hear any stick for Van Gaal. People are getting frustrated in my section that its never Rooney that gets subbed, but everyone still seems to believe in him as a player. Theres audible groans whenever Fellaini comes off the bench. The crowd love Schweinsteiger. Bogan Krkic posted:West Ham are playing with a 4231 and playing the most entertaining football since Zola and I'm having lots of fun watching it. Formations aren't inherently boring, it's the managers who are scared to fail and instruct the teams to play that way, or the players who don't have the skill or nous or initiative to take the game to an opposition that are the boring part I thought you'd been playing a 442 diamond or 433 tbh
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Nov 3, 2015 14:11
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blue footed boobie posted:It's a much simpler and more logical conclusion that lvg's system makes players avoid risks rather than assuming that United have acquired a bunch of risk adverse players. In that case I dont know why he is asking the questions of why players arent in the press conferences Look at his comments from the conference thats just happened for tonights game. “I want to score like the fans want. The players want to score but you have to create chances first and then you can finish." I cant see why he would be addressing the creativity issue if he isnt dealing with it Bogan Krkic posted:It's possible that van Gaal is being criticized because he is publicly admitting he doesn't know why his team aren't doing things, which seems to suggest either his team aren't doing what he tells them to do, or are and are then being made scapegoats when it goes wrong. Going on to then publicly criticize a player (which, putting aside this being basic bad man-management, has backfired spectacularly for Mourinho this season) only reinforces the idea that LVG doesn't quite have the ability to get his team to play the way he wants them to, and doesn't quite know how to handle either the press or his players. There's plenty of posters who aren't United fans, and hardly seem to be ABUs, chiming in to say that LVG doesn't look all that impressive. So what would you rather he do, that he come out and say that they are playing how he wants? Not criticise a player that isnt playing well? I dont even get the criticising players thing, if anything I think Van Gaal is too defensive of his players. He's doing exactly what he was brought in to do which is stabilize the decline and get us right back on the path Bogan Krkic posted:Big Sam had us in a 442 diamond last season but its Payet Moses and Lanzini behind Sakho now. The two clubs I watch every week are both playing a 4231, and the one I watch in person won the title last season with that formation playing arguably the best football seen as yet in the league. Suggesting that putting 2 up front automatically leads to more exciting football is daft and naive. Broletariat posted:Blaming Barthalona for 'ruining football' and implying that everyone needs to all go back to playing 4-4-2 is the most english thing i've read in these last couple threads. Let go of the past. Adapt. Possession and press heavy ball is great. I wasnt suggesting that tbf (I never said ruining football or mentioned a 442 either). I just think a lot of teams have taken the easy option of sticking an extra man in midfield and stifling games which is leading to uninspiring football. Gigi Galli posted:So what happened to Darmian? He was great for Italy when he last played but that was a while ago. Has he let the initial success go to his head? People will inevitably blame the Arsenal performance but I think it goes back to when Shaw got injured. He looked shaky in the next game as he was asked to play a little more attacking to make up for the missing Shaw on the other hand, and he ended up being subbed then. We had a couple of easy wins before Arsenal where he didnt have to do much but in the Arsenal match he was totally at sea and at fault for the early goals. Its strange how bad he did from how good he looked at the start of the season. Der Shovel posted:"Memphis was dropped [...] the reasons aren't surprising. [...] Blind is spot on." I dont see whats wrong with Van Gaals comments "But Van Gaal said: I have said he is the greatest talent of his age but he is only 21 and you cannot expect consistency, He is at a stage of his career where he must adapt to many things. “I’m convinced he’s coming back maybe stronger than before but we have to give him time, like we will with Martial when he is a little bit lower in his shape.”" Der Shovel posted:That is my point of contention: I'm not convinced he can get it done. I agree he's done a lot right: the defence looks good (although I think that's largely down to DDG and Smalling being in insane form, United as a whole have looked pretty shaky in many games), he did do what Fergie and Moyes steadfastly refused to do and bought midfielders. He's done many good things. United's attacking play just isn't one of those things. Surely you can see Smalling being in form is because of the changes that LVG made? Playing him alongside Blind was a masterstroke in my opinion, and the way he's now much more confident has meant that seeing him line up alongside Jones isnt the worry that it used to be. Im by no means defending the way we play because going to some of the matches is pretty boring, but also not. At half time in the City match I was thinking we'd played well and it had been a good match and the only issue I had was us not creating chances, and logged on twitter to see everyone saying it was a poo poo match. Maybe Ive seen too many poo poo matches but that one didnt seem that to me. I dont think some of the pundits are being completely fair, Scholes for one stood out. He said something along the lines of "I wouldnt like to play in this team" and my first thought was if we had you in there we wouldnt be playing this way naturally. Der Shovel posted:My reasoning for this is that it's pretty much a guarantee that if, for instance, Fellaini doesn't start the game, he'll come on around the 60th minute and usually doesn't help the game at all. Moyes was worse, but is that really a good defence? Saying someone is better than one of the biggest failures in EPL history isn't much of a merit IMO. A sub tends to come on about the 60-70 minute mark for one of the midfielders whenever theres a Carrick or Schweinsteiger on the pitch but that is more expected as it reenergises the midfield Moyes used to bring on Valencia as an attacking right back for no real reason constantly. It made no sense. [quote="Der Shovel" post=""452263251"I disagree. Taking Rooney out [b"]would[/b] instantly make United a better team, because he is currently utterly useless. It wouldn't immediately make United amazing because he's not the only player playing below their level (or the level they would need to be playing at), but he is a crucial player and is supposed to be playing a crucial role in the team. When he can't even get 5 meter passes right, that's a loving huge problem.[/quote] Ive just seen LVG say this when asked why strikers struggle in his formation - "“I think it is an aspect of this team or this selection and also an aspect of game tactics, Also a reason is the shape (form) of the player". So maybe he's going to address that? As I said before if it was me I'd drop Rooney but I dont think theres any point unless you change the system or get more from the players
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Nov 3, 2015 15:39
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Frankston posted:Far too much Man Utd chat in this thread tbh and not enough chat about Remi Garde's claret & blue army Maybe in order to do that you could facilitate a chat about them and what youd like to discuss rather than just complaining?
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Nov 3, 2015 15:40
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sebzilla posted:Without wanting to enter the world of Advanced Stats, there's not necessarily a problem with creating a low number of chances, as long as those few chances are relatively of higher quality and more likely to result in a goal than the higher numbers of chances created by other teams. Particularly for a team like United who tend to face packed defences, there's arguably some merit to the plan of creating two or three excellent chances and dominating possession rather than trying for more speculative chances, losing the ball and potentially being done on the counter. I like this post I just wish now and again Schweinsteiger or Herrera would take a punt from range.
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Nov 3, 2015 16:59
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sebzilla posted:Thanks, friend. And yeah I agree, it's immensely frustrating. And I wish plan B was "shoot a bit more" rather than using Fellainis big hairy bonce any time we're not winning after 70 minutes. But I can see things clicking sooner or later, and at least we have a more solid denfensive base to build on. To be honest I dont have a problem with having a plan B of Fellaini, if anything in recent games hes shied away from that and brought him on in midfield rather than pushing him upfield. I think sometimes its good to mix it up and throw one up if we need to.
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Nov 3, 2015 18:20
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Lot 49 posted:Anyway, what's the atmosphere like inside OT atm? Are either of Van Gaal or Rooney getting much stick from match going fans yet or is that still largely confined to forums and twitter? Well it changed tonight Some people tried to start a chant of "You Scouse Bastard" when Rooney ran offside, they got immediately bood and a half hearted Rooney chant started. I dont think I need to tell you about the rest of the fan reactions I think it was clear on TV
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Nov 3, 2015 23:20
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Ewar Woowar posted:Your gimmick sucks but I'll reply seriously. I'll get in here before Ninpo does If thats what you think of Cantona then fair enough, but the reason he was such a cult hero was because he worked so hard in matches and loved the team. His goal tally was nothing phenomenal but he was also a massive creative influence, I think he until recently had the best games per assist ratio. Probably the biggest influence he had on the team was being there as the Class of 92 came through. His discipline and hardwork in training reflected in them, along with his will to win. I dont think that bunch would have been the same without Cantona being there. I dont think you can ever class him among the real greats because he did have a tendancy to not show up in the biggest games, but his signing was a turning point for United becoming the force they would in the Premier League. I was there for this goal, and I'm not sure I'll ever see a better one in the flesh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1ccyEPUNjM I remember as it went in and he held his arms round I looked at the linesman thinking he was protesting a flag for offside, but no, he was saying I am the best, and to United fans then he was.
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Nov 4, 2015 00:30
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Ewar Woowar posted:Rooney was/is a great player but he played in an extremely dominant team that, under Ferguson, always got the strikers plenty of goals. I think this is unfair to Rooney actually, hes been sacrificed a fair few times for the team because of other players (like Ronaldo, Berbatov and Tevez) because hes a much more flexible player. Even last season he was playing in midfield a bunch. In Old Trafford the fans love him, it was notable that seconds after the goal went in they were chanting his name. If you want to pinpoint why many United fans have an issue with him its the fact that he held the club up for more money several times.
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Nov 4, 2015 00:40
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I hope Swansea go down so I never have to read another Sassasin post outside of the Dating megathread
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Nov 4, 2015 13:02
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Twat le Piss posted:Speaking about mentile managers, is Ian Holloway still managing? I miss him in the Prem Are you mentile, I hate Holloway
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Nov 4, 2015 15:20
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Shoren posted:The way Bellerin and, to a lesser extent, Monreal play is just the way of modern fullbacks, especially so in Arsenal's case. It's a tradeoff of less security on counter-attacks for more attacking threat. They provide the width that allows players like Sanchez and Ramsey to tuck inside where they prefer to play. The days of defense-first fullbacks is over. Yeah I think we had a similar discussion about Shaw at the start of the season *up pops a smiling sassasin blaming shaw for both goals against swansea*
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Nov 5, 2015 17:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjagjTPmbV4 I love wrestling Please note - Darren Fletcher was sat next to him and just laughing his arse off the whole time, especially when Barrett was taking the piss out of Rooney
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Nov 10, 2015 10:21
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Thats Cesaro who wins the match, but I think you look more like Wayne Rooney
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Nov 10, 2015 11:52
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sassassin posted:His relationship with Chico was anything but happy. Not after he got stung on the excess for his windscreen repair. You make up the weirdest things about Swansea players
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Nov 10, 2015 14:57
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Der Shovel posted:loving international friendlies. Really? Im shocked by that as I thought he's been having a poor season.
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Nov 18, 2015 10:58
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Ive just checked the details myself and the stat is slightly wrong. I'm assuming they took the Carling Cup games out, but why they'd do that and not the Champs League I dont know. If you take all the matches Carrick - 9 wins 1 draw (Boro), 1 loss (arsenal) Schneiderlin - 7 wins, 4 draws 1 loss Schweinsteiger - 6 wins 4 draws 3 losses Having a look at the midfield pairings Schneiderlin / Carrick - 5 wins Schweinsteiger / Carrick - 3 wins 1 loss Schneiderlin / Schweinsteiger - 2 wins 4 draws 1 loss Personally I think the stats are a load of shite and theres a load more things to take into consideration like who has been playing around them. Imo the football has been at its best when its been a pairing of Schneiderlin / Schweinsteiger playing and at its worse when its been Schweinsteiger / Carrick as they are too slow to sustain a game together.
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Nov 18, 2015 11:29
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FullLeatherJacket posted:probably because the carling cup is an itv4 reserves competition for bad teams to care about and the champions league is literally the highest level of the sport, but no I don't know either Taff if you include the carling cup then Carrick had another start and loss or draw depending on how you look at it tho. Imo they didnt include it to make him look slightly better which is my issue with stats
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Nov 19, 2015 10:32
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fat greasy puto posted:Pretty involved question. Maybe you could talk it out on traffordcast today? Yeah Arsenal chat on the Traffordcast 
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Nov 19, 2015 18:20
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