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Suspect Bucket
Jan 14, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR


Chef De Cuisinart posted:

That is a stupid article. Nobody brines with just salt. You brine with aromatics, beer, sugar, molasses, etc. You want your turkey to taste amazing? Wet brine it in Guinness, 5% salt, pickling spice, and a bit of brown sugar.

You want a lovely moist turkey? Just use a 5% salt solution.

Wet brining mine with salt, brown sugar, pickle juice, bay, a little skoosh of liquid smoke, and calamondin citrus. It smells great.

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Crazyeyes
Nov 5, 2009

If I were human, I believe my response would be: 'go to hell'.


I posit that a cast iron skillet (8-12" Diameter) is a non-negotiable piece of hardware.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


dalstrs posted:

Anyone have a recommendation on a food mill?
I've had one from MIU France for several years and I've been happy with it. It's not magic or anything, and all else being equal I'd prefer if it was slightly heavier gauge and the bearing the mechanism pivots on could be slightly better designed (it has a lip that likes to collect gunk if you'll let it---not a big deal because you can put the whole thing through the dishwasher, but whatever). The main thing I like about it is that it has folding feet to hold it over the pot or bowl or whatever. This works (for me anyway) way the gently caress better than the other bowl attachment mechanisms I've seen on food mills---telescoping, which works fine for specific bowl sizes but is poo poo for others, and the cantilever thing that looks good in theory but is bloody useless in practice.

The OXO mill has basically the same features as the MIU, but I've never used one myself---I got the MIU one before the Oxo one was on the market. But I bet it would be easier to find a story carrying to OXO mill if you wanted to handle one before buying.

DARPA Dad
Dec 9, 2008



Yeah this is what I'm doing.

Chef De Cuisinart posted:

That is a stupid article. Nobody brines with just salt. You brine with aromatics, beer, sugar, molasses, etc. You want your turkey to taste amazing? Wet brine it in Guinness, 5% salt, pickling spice, and a bit of brown sugar.

You want a lovely moist turkey? Just use a 5% salt solution.

A dry brine isn't a "solution" at all. It's basically just a rub-down with salt, pepper and whatever other spices you want followed by a nice long rest in the fridge

DARPA Dad fucked around with this message at Nov 25, 2015 around 02:47

Chef De Cuisinart
Oct 31, 2010

Brandy does in fact, in my experience, contribute to Getting Down.

DARPA Dad posted:

A dry brine isn't a "solution" at all. It's basically just a rub-down with salt, pepper and whatever other spices you want followed by a nice long rest in the fridge

Please explain to me how you'll get the flavor of dry juniper into a turkey with just salt, thanks.

I'f you'd read the article, his "brine" was JUST salt. No aromatics, citrus, spices, etc. That's loving stupid. Nobody brines with JUST salt.

e: and just so we're clear, he only used a 5% salt BRINE solution. Dry brine is a stupid term, you're just salting it prior to cooking.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


Chef De Cuisinart posted:

Please explain to me how you'll get the flavor of dry juniper into a turkey with just salt, thanks.

I'f you'd read the article, his "brine" was JUST salt. No aromatics, citrus, spices, etc. That's loving stupid. Nobody brines with JUST salt.

e: and just so we're clear, he only used a 5% salt BRINE solution. Dry brine is a stupid term, you're just salting it prior to cooking.
Just apply non-salt flavourings as a rub/mop before cooking. Adding them to the brine usually won't hurt, but you're not actually accomplishing anything apart from covering the surface with them anyway.

Chef De Cuisinart
Oct 31, 2010

Brandy does in fact, in my experience, contribute to Getting Down.

SubG posted:

Just apply non-salt flavourings as a rub/mop before cooking. Adding them to the brine usually won't hurt, but you're not actually accomplishing anything apart from covering the surface with them anyway.

That isn't really how that works, but okay. Always boil, and chill your brine. If I coat things in peppercorn and salt before cooking, they won't taste like pepper, dude.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


Chef De Cuisinart posted:

That isn't really how that works, but okay. Always boil, and chill your brine. If I coat things in peppercorn and salt before cooking, they won't taste like pepper, dude.
You're not getting anything out of soaking a bird in whatever brine you're using that you wouldn't get out of brining in a plain salt solution and applying the other stuff as a mop/baste. Brining is about getting water into the muscle, that's it. Salt penetration is actually pretty minimal over typical brining times, and done conventionally (bird in bucket of salt solution) wildly uneven. That's why Myhrvold, for example, offers not just one but two alternatives to traditional brining (using a very low concentration brine---like 0.5%---for much longer, or using multiple injections of the brine such that no muscle is more than a cm or two from an injection site). Kenji also touches on this briefly in the linked article if you don't have a copy of MC handy.

I mean in most cases you're not going to cause any problems by brining---apart from possibly ending up with soggier skin because it will absorb more water just like the meat will. And you're usually not going to cause any problems by adding additional poo poo to your brine. But as with marinading, it's primarily something that you're just doing to the surface, so you don't have to do it overnight or whatever versus just doing it just before cooking.

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005



Lipstick Apathy

Chef De Cuisinart posted:

Please explain to me how you'll get the flavor of dry juniper into a turkey with just salt, thanks.

I'f you'd read the article, his "brine" was JUST salt. No aromatics, citrus, spices, etc. That's loving stupid. Nobody brines with JUST salt.

e: and just so we're clear, he only used a 5% salt BRINE solution. Dry brine is a stupid term, you're just salting it prior to cooking.

Well in the article he talks about brining with spices and different liquids, etc. He tried all of that and concluded that the flavor difference is almost entirely in the skin and you're much better off just using salt and applying the aromatics later. It makes sense to me.

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004


I have brined hundreds and hundreds of birds, dry rubbed at least half as many, done all sorts of taste tests - just trust me I take this poo poo really seriously.

a dry rub (lol "dry brine") is fine, completely valid - but seasoning won't penetrate as deeply (we're talking a centimeter of muscle fiber or something, but also into the tissues surrounding veins and punctures) and you also won't add as much moisture to the meat. If your moisture is flavorful, this can make a difference. Not all molecules or whatever the gently caress penetrate - but poo poo like allicin (in garlic, and its decomposing byproducts), whatever compound it is in black pepper (I forget), alcohol, etc totally make it through.

the One True Way of making a juicy rear end poultry with crispy skin is to actual-brine it (length of time determined by meat thickness and weight), and let it air dry uncovered in the fridge for a day or two afterwards. dry rubs also works fine, just yields a different result.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


mindphlux posted:

a dry rub (lol "dry brine") is fine, completely valid - but seasoning won't penetrate as deeply (we're talking a centimeter of muscle fiber or something, but also into the tissues surrounding veins and punctures) and you also won't add as much moisture to the meat. If your moisture is flavorful, this can make a difference. Not all molecules or whatever the gently caress penetrate - but poo poo like allicin (in garlic, and its decomposing byproducts), whatever compound it is in black pepper (I forget), alcohol, etc totally make it through.
Assuming we're talking about reasonable brining times (e.g. around 12 hours, plus or minus) and only care about perceivable concentrations of flavour compounds, then salt won't penetrate more than a cm or so during either a wet or dry brine. The main difference is that a wet brine will result in water being introduced into the meat. Meat's a fairly complicated medium, but basically what happens is that the salt dissociates into Na+ and Cl- ions, the Cl- ions weakly bond with proteins in the muscle fibres, the concentration of Cl- ions causes the ends of the affected fibres to weakly repel each other, and this spreads them slightly. This allows water to capillary up into the tissue, and it results in a measurable increase in tenderness (that is, directly, during the brining and not just as a result of subsequent cooking). But the salt doesn't end up penetrating more than a cm or so.

That said, in both a wet and dry brine you're building up a reservoir of [whatever] on the surface of the meat. Once you add heat, transport of salt (and other flavour compounds) will increase dramatically---as in orders of magnitude. This is just basic physics and chemistry. It's how diffusion works. So although in neither a wet nor dry brine will there be much penetration during the brining, in either case you will see penetration of salt (and potentially other stuff, depending on what it is) throughout the meat once it's cooked.

Beyond that, it is also the case that most flavour compounds that you'd care about---like piperine from black pepper and the cysteine sulfoxides from aliums---are way the gently caress more soluble in fat than in water. So the fact that once you start rendering fat---on a bird, usually mostly in a layer at the surface---you necessarily start transporting more poo poo than when you're just using water, even ignoring the effect the different temperatures has on the process. Again, this is just basic chemistry, and it's just how it works.

So: wet brining itself is something that you do to affect tenderness and moistness. You can get flavours into the meat that way, but only because you're parking a bunch of poo poo on the surface that can, later, do other poo poo during the cooking. Which is why applying flavourings via a dry rub or mop is as effective at doing that. And most of the things you probably care about, flavourwise, are going to be more soluble (like an order of magnitude more soluble) in oil or fat than in water. Which is why using a mop or baste will work better for that kind of poo poo.

mindphlux posted:

the One True Way of making a juicy rear end poultry with crispy skin is to actual-brine it (length of time determined by meat thickness and weight), and let it air dry uncovered in the fridge for a day or two afterwards.
The Myhrvold injection approach does the same thing faster, if you don't mind fiddling around with needles.

Gerblyn
Apr 4, 2007

"TO BATTLE!"


Fun Shoe

Brining a bird sounds like a fun thing to try. Is it worth doing it with a smaller bird, like a 3lb chicken? It's hard to buy bigger poultry round here, and I don't think me and my GF would be able to finish a 10lb turkey anyways...

Has anyone got a link to a webpage that explains the right way of doing it?

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

I feel there's a point where the advantages of one method over another are not going to be noticeable.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


Gerblyn posted:

Has anyone got a link to a webpage that explains the right way of doing it?
The Food Lab article up the page contains more information than most people will ever conceivably need on the subject, and in it there's a link to another Food Lab article with more information.

Gerblyn
Apr 4, 2007

"TO BATTLE!"


Fun Shoe

SubG posted:

The Food Lab article up the page contains more information than most people will ever conceivably need on the subject, and in it there's a link to another Food Lab article with more information.

Thank you!

Croatoan
Jun 24, 2005

Hold the line, I have shitposting to do.


We talk about this every drat year. I'm not gonna brine because it's stupid and doesn't do much. You're welcome to. However no one mentions the single most effective way to get a tasty and moist bird is the injection method. Get a nice stainless injection needle and fill that fucker up with butter and seasonings.

Also why are we arguing about this here and not the holiday thread? Stop ruining my traditions!

Test Pattern
Dec 20, 2007

Keep scrolling, clod!


dalstrs posted:

Anyone have a recommendation on a food mill?

The OXO mill is loving amazing, but is $50 http://www.amazon.com/OXO-Good-Grip...l/dp/B000I0MGKE
Of the competitors, all about half the price, I think the http://www.amazon.com/Weston-61-010...l/dp/B000T3HWR2 is the only one I've used and it's pretty good, but the OXO is honestly worth the markup (as usual).

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004


SubG posted:

The Myhrvold injection approach does the same thing faster, if you don't mind fiddling around with needles.

yeah for sure. fully support this as well, and use it often when brining in a hurry. thanks for all your clarifications also

Croatoan posted:

I'm not gonna brine because it's stupid and doesn't do much.

ok bro!!!

consensual poster
Sep 1, 2009



SubG posted:

The Myhrvold injection approach does the same thing faster, if you don't mind fiddling around with needles.

I'm surprised that this is the first mention of injection brining in this discussion so far. You don't need to mess around with needles; just buy any regular meat injector like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Flavor-Inject.../dp/B00HLGJR50. The tip is far too large to jab yourself with.

I smoke chicken quite a bit and injection brining works great. You get similar results compared to submerging the whole bird and it is neither messy nor a pain in the rear end. I usually combine injection brining with a somewhat generous salting of the skin (no more than you would use for roasting a chicken), then leaving it in the fridge for about 24 hours. The results have been great.

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009



Anyone know a good place to buy kitchenaid mixers? Open to refurb/open box kind of stuff.

dalstrs
Mar 11, 2004

At least this way my kill will have some use

Fun Shoe

Test Pattern posted:

The OXO mill is loving amazing, but is $50 http://www.amazon.com/OXO-Good-Grip...l/dp/B000I0MGKE
Of the competitors, all about half the price, I think the http://www.amazon.com/Weston-61-010...l/dp/B000T3HWR2 is the only one I've used and it's pretty good, but the OXO is honestly worth the markup (as usual).

I think I'll put the OXO on camelcamelcamel to watch for a deal. It's not an urgent need so I can wait for a sale. Thanks!

newmans_owned
Nov 26, 2015

Home Of The Hottest WADs On The Net


do teflon coated pans really add toxins to your food if you cook with those, or is that just scare mongering? multiple sources say they do, or say it doesn't.

newmans_owned fucked around with this message at Nov 26, 2015 around 04:02

Bitchkrieg
Mar 10, 2014



This thread is great, thanks OP. I'm moving and setting up a new kitchen and the advice / recommendations are invaluable.

What's the consensus on cookware sets? I'm in the market for a mid-range set of pots and pans, maybe $90-$130(ish). I'm looking at this set specifically, Rachel Ray branded set (my parents want to gift it as a housewarming present).

I've also looked at the Celphalon 10 piece kit, which at $140 is at the high end of my range.

Also any Black Friday deal suggestions? (Cookware seems to definitely be a BF type purchase).

newmans_owned
Nov 26, 2015

Home Of The Hottest WADs On The Net


Bitchkrieg posted:

This thread is great, thanks OP. I'm moving and setting up a new kitchen and the advice / recommendations are invaluable.

What's the consensus on cookware sets? I'm in the market for a mid-range set of pots and pans, maybe $90-$130(ish). I'm looking at this set specifically, Rachel Ray branded set (my parents want to gift it as a housewarming present).

I've also looked at the Celphalon 10 piece kit, which at $140 is at the high end of my range.

Also any Black Friday deal suggestions? (Cookware seems to definitely be a BF type purchase).

i'd go to Big Lots myself and see what kind of deals they have going on. you can usually find cookware that's very acceptable in terms of quality.

VelociBacon posted:

Anyone know a good place to buy kitchenaid mixers? Open to refurb/open box kind of stuff.

if you don't mind Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_hi_4...&qid=1448511538

newmans_owned fucked around with this message at Nov 26, 2015 around 04:22

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


newmans_owned posted:

do teflon coated pans really add toxins to your food if you cook with those, or is that just scare mongering? multiple sources say they do, or say it doesn't.
Short answer: no, teflon doesn't add toxins to your food.

If you were asking the same question several decades ago the answer would be more complicated (but still boil down to no).

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Bitchkrieg posted:

This thread is great, thanks OP. I'm moving and setting up a new kitchen and the advice / recommendations are invaluable.

What's the consensus on cookware sets? I'm in the market for a mid-range set of pots and pans, maybe $90-$130(ish). I'm looking at this set specifically, Rachel Ray branded set (my parents want to gift it as a housewarming present).

I've also looked at the Celphalon 10 piece kit, which at $140 is at the high end of my range.

Also any Black Friday deal suggestions? (Cookware seems to definitely be a BF type purchase).
I would recommend not buying the Rachel Ray set because non-stick cookware is only going to last a few years and then you're going to have to buy new cookware again as the teflon coating starts flaking off. Ever been to a friend's house and seen their nonstick pot with holes and flaps of teflon just hanging out? That is the fate of every nonstick pan eventually. Anything you get that's stainless steel will probably last longer than you live.

Get a cheap stainless set if you need, go for a set with disc bottoms if you can find one for significantly cheaper than tri-ply/multiclads, but don't get a nonstick set.

edit:
Walmart's 8 piece Tramontana set got another price cut and is now down to $109:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/19581112?...9063152&veh=sem

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Nov 26, 2015 around 12:30

FireTora
Oct 6, 2004



Thermoworks is having a Black Friday sale through Monday.
http://www.thermoworks.com/specials/?tw=HBF
The new MK4 Themapen is $80 and the classic is $70 + a bunch of other stuff is on sale.

Captain Bravo
Feb 16, 2011

An Emergency Shitpost
has been deployed...

...but experts warn it is
just a drop in the ocean.

Steve Yun posted:

Anything you get that's stainless steel will probably last longer than you live.

My grandmother was actually talking with my mom, today, about a stainless steel pan that she received as a wedding gift 50 years ago that our family still uses!

Gerblyn
Apr 4, 2007

"TO BATTLE!"


Fun Shoe

FireTora posted:

Thermoworks is having a Black Friday sale through Monday.
http://www.thermoworks.com/specials/?tw=HBF
The new MK4 Themapen is $80 and the classic is $70 + a bunch of other stuff is on sale.

Would something like that work for tempering chocolate? The thermometers I have right now aren't accurate enough at low temperatures.

mcstanb
Mar 21, 2011


Gerblyn posted:

Would something like that work for tempering chocolate? The thermometers I have right now aren't accurate enough at low temperatures.

Yes it would. I have one and can measure anything from meat temps to sugar.

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009



Just wanted to say I picked up a new classic 4.5qt kitchenaid stand mixer for $250 shipped after tax, Canadian, from Amazon. Kitchenaid.com won't take a credit card with a Canadian address or I would have bought a refurb pro model for $299 (of which there are many btw American goons).

Gerblyn
Apr 4, 2007

"TO BATTLE!"


Fun Shoe

mcstanb posted:

Yes it would. I have one and can measure anything from meat temps to sugar.

Cool!

Was poking around and the Mk3 is available here for $45:

http://thermapen.co.uk/superfast-th...ed-colours.html

From comparing them via their web pages. I think the Mk3 is missing some things like a display that autorotates as you move the thermometer and a backlight, but otherwise does the same job.

teraflame
Jan 6, 2009


Mk4 being waterproof was the reason I went for it.

Bob_McBob
Mar 24, 2007


The Mk4 is worth it for the motion activated sleep mode alone. You can leave it open the whole time you're cooking without draining the battery or having it turn off at an inopportune time.

Squashy Nipples
Aug 18, 2007



VelociBacon posted:

Just wanted to say I picked up a new classic 4.5qt kitchenaid stand mixer for $250 shipped after tax, Canadian, from Amazon. Kitchenaid.com won't take a credit card with a Canadian address or I would have bought a refurb pro model for $299 (of which there are many btw American goons).

The only way I know to beat the Amazon prices on Kitchenaid mixers is if you can combine a 20% coupon with a sale at Bed Bath and Beyond.


My brother in-law's probe thermo poo poo the bed over Thanksgiving, so I'm going to get him that new Thermoworks model (some goon in the last thread gave it high praise).

https://www.thermoworks.com/products/alarm/dot.html


Any reason why I should get the bigger, more complicated one?

http://www.thermoworks.com/products.../chefalarm.html

I kind of like the simplicity of the round one.

Rescue Toaster
Mar 13, 2003


The chefalarm has a timer and can keep track of min/max temps. The biggest functional difference would be if you need a low temp alarm, like if you're monitoring food holding or if you're worried about your sous vide machine crapping out and ruining something.

If your use case is really just, when is my food at temp, which is 99% of the time, just get the DOT. I have one, it's not cheaply made or anything, it's totally solid, it just does one single thing well.

That said, the chefalarm comes with the bigger/longer 90 degree probe instead of the little straight probe. And I ended up buying one of those anyway and like it better (extra 15 bucks or so), which almost makes up for the price difference.

Weldon Pemberton
May 19, 2012



Is there a huge difference in quality between different brands of teflon-coated frying pans, and if so, any recommendations? Are cast iron pans better or worse than those for frequent use?

I cook for me and my partner (who is trying to bulk so he eats a lot) multiple times a day and I tend to use the same small frying pan for most meals that don't involve the oven/a pot/a wok. I just bought a cheap one from Kroger a couple of months ago and it's already a piece of poo poo that fried eggs stick to in the morning, despite a generous coat of butter. I promise I am not routinely burning poo poo in it or scrubbing it with brillo pads that scratch the coat or anything. If there isn't much difference in quality, is it just using it 3 times a day that's wearing it out quick?

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Weldon Pemberton posted:

Is there a huge difference in quality between different brands of teflon-coated frying pans, and if so, any recommendations? Are cast iron pans better or worse than those for frequent use?

I cook for me and my partner (who is trying to bulk so he eats a lot) multiple times a day and I tend to use the same small frying pan for most meals that don't involve the oven/a pot/a wok. I just bought a cheap one from Kroger a couple of months ago and it's already a piece of poo poo that fried eggs stick to in the morning, despite a generous coat of butter. I promise I am not routinely burning poo poo in it or scrubbing it with brillo pads that scratch the coat or anything. If there isn't much difference in quality, is it just using it 3 times a day that's wearing it out quick?

There are differences in quality, but you only really find much higher quality when you get into the more expensive stuff, i.e. Vollrath.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

AFAIK, no cookware company makes their own Teflon, they all outsource it to third parties, which means they basically get similar market rates on all the same stuff. Some Teflon costs more than others, depending on the quality.

It's basically the more expensive the better, but also keep in mind that they all degrade eventually.

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Nov 29, 2015 around 00:46

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Humboldt Squid
Jan 21, 2006



Honestly i avoid nonstick coatings whenever i can. The benefit to having it really isn't all that great compared with just using enough oil in the first place and it gives the pan/whatever an expiration date (since that coating will come off eventually, especially if you use it every day like i tend to with my pans).

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