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Asterite34
May 19, 2009




ChubbyChecker posted:

wait until you hear about polish submarines

They flew it to the sun at night?

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vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jozy loves scoring like a fat kid loves eating cake.





FreudianSlippers posted:

The Vasa sunk in the exact right conditions to be well preserved so they raised up in mostly one piece centuries later and Stockholm has a museum where you can look at it.


I've been to this museum, it's really great.

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


Those masts seem tiny

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


FreudianSlippers posted:

The Vasa sunk in the exact right conditions to be well preserved so they raised up in mostly one piece centuries later and Stockholm has a museum where you can look at it.


When it was brought to surface, there was a miniature nude statue of Paavo Nurmi on the deck.

Fatty Crabcakes
Jan 31, 2008

HISSSSSSSSSSSSS



Milo and POTUS posted:

Those masts seem tiny
It was in cold water for centuries. Don't judge.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


Fatty Crabcakes posted:

It was in cold water for centuries. Don't judge.

Also it was literally a Grovership, not a showership.

WITCHCRAFT
Aug 28, 2007

Berries That Burn


C.M. Kruger posted:

IIRC the torpedo battery commander was also a pensioner who'd retired back in 1927 and had come back to help train the students at the request of the fort commander.

What a rough hand to have fate deal you. Imagine finding out that OOPS YOU'RE AN ACTIVE COMBATANT IN WORLD WAR II when all you wanted to do was train some young nincompoops because the fort commander asked you real nice to just come and show them the ropes, that's all, then you can go home.

FreudianSlippers posted:

The Vasa sunk in the exact right conditions to be well preserved so they raised up in mostly one piece centuries later and Stockholm has a museum where you can look at it.


Why the ship booty look like a Hindu temple tho???

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

Milo and POTUS posted:

Those masts seem tiny

Yeah, like, even if you live thousands of miles away from open water and don't know the first thing about boats the proportions just intuitively looked super hosed up. It looks like they built it wrong, as a joke.

bony tony
Aug 9, 2013



Serious answer, they cut the masts off to fit into the building. Sorry

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


bony tony posted:

Serious answer, they cut the masts off to fit into the building. Sorry

Why didn't they just lower the streetfloor?

Comrade Koba
Jul 2, 2007





they’re still on display but outside the actual building

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Did they contract Grover to design that museum building

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


That building also owns

ThisIsJohnWayne
Feb 23, 2007
Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!




The original masts were taller than the ship, the ship is 5+ stories high, that entrance in the picture is at level 4. Standing underneath the thing it's a trip to realize it was all built by hand with hand tools 400 years ago.

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Think something witty and pretend it's written here.



ThisIsJohnWayne posted:

The original masts were taller than the ship, the ship is 5+ stories high, that entrance in the picture is at level 4. Standing underneath the thing it's a trip to realize it was all built by hand with hand tools 400 years ago.

...And the reason why it capsized was because it had one extra gun floor added to it after the initial design so the measurements and the center of weight seem off because they are.

That's kinda the point of it.

NFX
Jun 1, 2008



Fun Shoe

On a related note: In order to build a ship like that, you obviously need a lot of wood. If you want to build an entire fleet, you'll need lots of woods.

In 1807 Denmark lost yet another battle, and England captured the entire Danish fleet. So the king and admiralty of Denmark ordered several oak forests to be planted in order to have lumber ready in case something similar happened again. Not a dumb move considering our war record.

The problem is that oak trees don't grow that quickly. Around 90,000 trees were fully grown and of a quality to be used in ship construction... 25 years ago.

But it wasn't a complete waste, since the Viking Ship Museum in Roskilde used some of the trees in the reconstruction of a viking age ship.

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


Europe looks really good with lots a trees and it sucks there are none in the west anymore

Comrade Koba
Jul 2, 2007





NFX posted:

The problem is that oak trees don't grow that quickly. Around 90,000 trees were fully grown and of a quality to be used in ship construction... 25 years ago.

Same thing happened in Sweden, the Navy chief got a phonecall in 1975 telling them the oak trees they planted in the early 1800s were now fully grown and they could come pick them up if they wanted to (they didn't).

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


Comrade Koba posted:

Same thing happened in Sweden, the Navy chief got a phonecall in 1975 telling them the oak trees they planted in the early 1800s were now fully grown and they could come pick them up if they wanted to (they didn't).

Good news is the price of lumber has gone up!

Wipfmetz
Oct 12, 2007

Sitzen ein oder mehrere Wipfe in einer Lore, so kann man sie ueber den Rand der Lore hinausschauen sehen.

NFX posted:

So the king and admiralty of Denmark ordered [in 1807] several oak forests to be planted in order to have lumber ready in case something similar happened again.
The problem is that oak trees don't grow that quickly. Around 90,000 trees were fully grown and of a quality to be used in ship construction... 25 years ago.

I guess they were aware of this delay. It's pretty cool and telling of character to plan something that far ahead, to invest into something which will only grant benefits 200 years later. But which has to be done that way, because there's just no other way to get reliable wood sources aside from "grow forests".

Kennel
May 1, 2008

BAWWW-UNH!


I like to imagine that the guy who made the phone call was completely surprised that the trees weren't needed anymore.

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



WITCHCRAFT posted:

Why the ship booty look like a Hindu temple tho???

it was the style at the time


bony tony posted:

Serious answer, they cut the masts off to fit into the building. Sorry

the masts weren't cut, they were just removed, just like they would have been removed before storms


Wipfmetz posted:

I guess they were aware of this delay. It's pretty cool and telling of character to plan something that far ahead, to invest into something which will only grant benefits 200 years later. But which has to be done that way, because there's just no other way to get reliable wood sources aside from "grow forests".

another way would be to get colonies

BalloonFish
Jun 30, 2013



Fun Shoe

This happened in Britain too. There's a country estate (in the Welsh Borders, I think) which has an oak plantation where all the trees are strangely deformed near their base but then grow straight for the rest of their height. It's because when they were planted in the 1820s they were tied/pinned into the shapes needed to be make the curved structural bits of a ship, then in the 1850s it was realised that they weren't needed and the trees were 'released' to grow naturally.

There's a plantation in Scotland which supplies timber for restoration projects on old sailing ships (including HMS Victory) and houses/structures from trees that were growing when Victory was still in active service.

The UK Forestry Commission was founded in 1919 when it was realised that 1000+ years of shipbuilding, a century of neglect once wood fell from favour for ships, growing demand for timbers for coal mine prop and roofs and, finally, a surge in demand for wood for rifle butts and barrels in WW1 had essentially picked Britain and Ireland clean of mature timber.

In the early 1920s when Captain Scott's former ship Discovery was being refitted they had to import timber from Quebec because there was none suitably from a domestic source.

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010

There's only one prescription for Nazism and it's 76mm HVAP





Ultra Carp

Even in the US, the Navy still manages a 50,000 acre white oak forest reserve solely for the purpose of maintaining USS Constitution.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



Milo and POTUS posted:

Europe looks really good with lots a trees and it sucks there are none in the west anymore

Is there any old-growth forest left in Europe? Even in North America I think it's basically just in the PNW and the canadian boreal forests. If we managed that in a few hundred years I can't imagine european forests fared well

In France at least the only thing approaching a forest I've ever seen is in the Vosges.

Edgar Allen Ho has a new favorite as of 11:07 on Apr 12, 2021

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Is there any old-growth forest left in Europe?

Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraina.

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Is there any old-growth forest left in Europe? Even in North America I think it's basically just in the PNW and the canadian boreal forests. If we managed that in a few hundred years I can't imagine european forests fared well

In France at least the only thing approaching a forest I've ever seen is in the Vosges.

I was about to say plenty in northern and eastern but I actually don't know about old growth.


There's this great big green glob about 80 miles south of Paris and I can't find anything about it on wikipedia. It's about 1000 square miles but it's almost certainly replanted if I had to guess

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

Civilization has been deforesting land for millennia. Some Roman industrial processes required charcoal, and they completely deforested at least one island and an awful lot of regular land, making it.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



Milo and POTUS posted:

I was about to say plenty in northern and eastern but I actually don't know about old growth.


There's this great big green glob about 80 miles south of Paris and I can't find anything about it on wikipedia. It's about 1000 square miles but it's almost certainly replanted if I had to guess

I think that would be Gâtinais français, which is quite pretty but definitely replanted.

GolfHole
Feb 26, 2004



ThisIsJohnWayne posted:

The original masts were taller than the ship, the ship is 5+ stories high, that entrance in the picture is at level 4. Standing underneath the thing it's a trip to realize it was all built by hand with hand tools 400 years ago.

My big "I can't believe people built these regularly" trip are Helepolii: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helepolis

I thought this was something clash of clans made up for mobile entertainment purposes. Imagine this showing up to your city one day. Yeesh.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Civilization has been deforesting land for millennia. Some Roman industrial processes required charcoal, and they completely deforested at least one island and an awful lot of regular land, making it.
Ancient Greece was almost completely deforested, causing erosion which again caused springs and streams to dry up. Plato is quoted lamenting over how the mountains in Attika were almost completely barren because of this.

Angrymog
Jan 29, 2012

Really Madcats



GolfHole posted:

My big "I can't believe people built these regularly" trip are Helepolii: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helepolis

I thought this was something clash of clans made up for mobile entertainment purposes. Imagine this showing up to your city one day. Yeesh.

On the topic of siege weaponry, Edward I refused to accept Stirling Castle's surrender until he'd had a chance to fire his new trebuchet, Warwolf, at it.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009


Grimey Drawer

Alhazred posted:

Ancient Greece was almost completely deforested, causing erosion which again caused springs and streams to dry up. Plato is quoted lamenting over how the mountains in Attika were almost completely barren because of this.

The middle east was mostly a lush forest and savannah 12000 years ago before humans systematically cut down all forests and had their livestock graze the sad remains into the dry lands characteristic of the region today. The european neolithic period had large heathlands all over Europe for the same reasons.

Duodecimal
Dec 27, 2012

Still stupid

Dissolved salts in the tigris/euphrates were present in high enough concentrations that actual salt crusts formed on formerly productive farmland in the decades leading up to the collapse of irrigated agriculture in that area, which can be tracked in their historical records.

They were also aware of the declines as they were happening and kept increasing the use of salt-tolerant crops, but in the end they couldn't solve the problem.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009


Grimey Drawer

And that bastion of wilderness which is the Amazon rainforest might have been mostly cultivated land a few centuries ago. Then humans dissappeared due to disease and societal collapse and whoops, nature reclaimed her lands once again. Much smaller scale of that is what has happened around chernobyl too.

boofhead
Feb 18, 2021


Those huge monoculture logging forests are really disquieting to walk through, they're a hellscape in terms of biodiversity. You go down from millions of diverse species down to like a few dozen, just waiting for the next failure cascade to take the whole thing out. Human industry is a hell of a thing.. everything it touches turns to poo poo

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Think something witty and pretend it's written here.



boofhead posted:

Those huge monoculture logging forests are really disquieting to walk through, they're a hellscape in terms of biodiversity. You go down from millions of diverse species down to like a few dozen, just waiting for the next failure cascade to take the whole thing out. Human industry is a hell of a thing.. everything it touches turns to poo poo

Here they at least try to keep them semi-multicultured with some preservation actions per areas cleared, but then again they also were plowing the new forests floors ~1 meter deep every 3 meters on north-south direction especially on the eastern parts of the country to "manage floods and encourage new growth".

This has nothing to do with the Russia, promised.

Byzantine
Sep 1, 2007



Zudgemud posted:

And that bastion of wilderness which is the Amazon rainforest might have been mostly cultivated land a few centuries ago. Then humans dissappeared due to disease and societal collapse and whoops, nature reclaimed her lands once again. Much smaller scale of that is what has happened around chernobyl too.

I mean, that's basically the bright spot. Once we do manage to kill ourselves off, the natural world will spring back in decades.

Hell, the covid lockdowns show it'd start immediately once our lovely species is gone.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



The Persian Gulf coastline has changed dramatically and that’s something that historians do not always emphasise.

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Whybird
Aug 2, 2009

Phaiston have long avoided the tightly competetive defence sector, but the IRDA Act 2052 has given us the freedom we need to bring out something really special.

https://team-robostar.itch.io/robostar




Nap Ghost

Angrymog posted:

On the topic of siege weaponry, Edward I refused to accept Stirling Castle's surrender until he'd had a chance to fire his new trebuchet, Warwolf, at it.

Not gonna lie, if I'd been on the surrendering side I'd probably have been down with that too.

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