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Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



Whybird posted:

Not gonna lie, if I'd been on the surrendering side I'd probably have been down with that too.

I mean, depends on if you get to leave the castle first imo

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Falukorv
Jun 23, 2013


Even in Scandinavia old growth forests are rare even though we have more hectars of forest than ever before, but most is production forest, even-aged monocultures of spruce and pine. In Sweden, only around 2 % (or thereabouts, forget exact figure) is old growth, a few dotted in protected reserves and the like around the country and largest areas of protected old growth forests are the subalpine forests near the mountains. But it is an issue which has received more attention since the 90s, was even worse during the middle 20th century.

Besides a scarcity in forest diversity, theres also a shortage of semi-natural grasslands (most diverse biotopes we have in Scandinavia) and wetlands because modern farming and forestry has reduced the need for meadows and pastures of various types (especially on meager soils in relatively dry places) and often replaced with forest monocultures.

Funnily enough if managed correctly roadsides and track beds are a great refuge for species adapted to drier open pastures and meadows, some plant species that have declined due to being specialised on one of the most diminised habitats, such as sandy poorer soils in dry and warm open pastures track their distribuiton pretty well with the modern railway network.

Falukorv has a new favorite as of 13:18 on Apr 14, 2021

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






There has never been an abundance of wood in Scandinavia. One of the reasons why the vikings sailed to America was that they heard about the huge forests there.

BalloonFish
Jun 30, 2013



Fun Shoe

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Is there any old-growth forest left in Europe?

There's a tiny (less than five hectares) pocket of ancient oak 'forest' high up on Dartmoor on the sheltered side of a valley. It's the last remaining fragment of the forest that covered all of Dartmoor in the Paelolithic period, which also makes it the last part of the wild wood which covered all of England, albeit the non-typical upland part. Apparently the milder climate of the past century has caused the oaks to both greatly increase in individual size (they were originally stunted due to the difficult but just-about-tenable conditions) and overall areas.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Civilization has been deforesting land for millennia. Some Roman industrial processes required charcoal, and they completely deforested at least one island and an awful lot of regular land, making it.

The karst mountain landscapes of the Balkan Adriatic coast are 'artificial' in the sense that they were completely deforested over the past 2000 years, of which the Greek demand for ship timber and Roman demand for charcoal played a large part. I've seen the 'factoid' put about that it was the demand for building piles in Venice that led to the stripping of Dalmatia but IIRC it's been shown that was just a major identifiable single 'customer' as part of a long-term process that had been going on for millenia.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Alhazred posted:

There has never been an abundance of wood in Scandinavia. One of the reasons why the vikings sailed to America was that they heard about the huge forests there.
Doesn't that describe most places with metal working or carpentry for houses and boats? The acres per cabin and acres per tool numbers can be completely insane and don't even get started on ships.

Byzantine
Sep 1, 2007



BalloonFish posted:

I've seen the 'factoid' put about that it was the demand for building piles in Venice that led to the stripping of Dalmatia but IIRC it's been shown that was just a major identifiable single 'customer' as part of a long-term process that had been going on for millenia.

I’m ok with anything that blames Venice.

RagnarokZ
May 14, 2004

Emperor of the Internet

Byzantine posted:

I’m ok with anything that blames Venice.

So we should definitely ban crabs then? Good to know.

We silly Danes actually preserved a wandering coastal dune, as in, left to just move across and envelop everything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A5bjerg_Mile

In another 100-200 years it'll actually reach the road and railroad connect the town of Skagen, presumably forcing us to build a tunnel or redirect the roads behind the dune.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jozy loves scoring like a fat kid loves eating cake.





The 17th-century Swedish nobleman Carl Gustaf Wrangel spent much of his life building an opulent castle called Skokloster Castle, but he also spent much of his life off campaigning in countries other than Sweden, shipping spoils of war back to fill up the castle while other people built it in his absence. Eventually he died in Germany. When word got back to the builders at Skokloster, they realized that with Wrangel dead nobody was going to pay them to finish the castle, so they up and left in the middle of building one of the rooms, which is now known as the Unfinished Hall.

Today the castle is a museum, and most of it is lavishly decorated and filled with works of art and opulent furniture. In contrast, the Unfinished Hall still looks more or less the way it did the day the workers said gently caress it:






e: for comparison's sake, here's a different room from the castle:

vyelkin has a new favorite as of 02:54 on Apr 15, 2021

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug

vyelkin posted:

The 17th-century Swedish nobleman Carl Gustaf Wrangel spent much of his life building an opulent castle called Skokloster Castle, but he also spent much of his life off campaigning in countries other than Sweden, shipping spoils of war back to fill up the castle while other people built it in his absence. Eventually he died in Germany. When word got back to the builders at Skokloster, they realized that with Wrangel dead nobody was going to pay them to finish the castle, so they up and left in the middle of building one of the rooms, which is now known as the Unfinished Hall.

Today the castle is a museum, and most of it is lavishly decorated and filled with works of art and opulent furniture. In contrast, the Unfinished Hall still looks more or less the way it did the day the workers said gently caress it:






e: for comparison's sake, here's a different room from the castle:

Most of that finished room is hideous but I really dig the flooring.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



They had surprisingly modern buckets.

Falukorv
Jun 23, 2013


Alhazred posted:

There has never been an abundance of wood in Scandinavia. One of the reasons why the vikings sailed to America was that they heard about the huge forests there.

Parts of Norrland probably were pretty forested back then too, but that was Sami territory and viking settlements there were few. and would be mostly pine, spruce and birch. In southern Scandinavia there were forests to ofc but readily harvested and always in demand, especially hardwood species.

Falukorv has a new favorite as of 14:19 on Apr 15, 2021

Phy
Jun 27, 2008





Fun Shoe

Platystemon posted:

They had surprisingly modern buckets.

tbh i was kinda hoping the buckets hadn't been moved in hundreds of years, like that ladder on the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem

especially if there was a big union bloke employed to just hang out in the Unfinished Room, and if you get a little too close to a bucket or a ladder he just glowers at you and says "No scab work, pal"

But like Swedishly

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!



inget strejkbrytande arbete, kära vän

Falukorv
Jun 23, 2013


(bombs a ship)

Wipfmetz
Oct 12, 2007

Sitzen ein oder mehrere Wipfe in einer Lore, so kann man sie ueber den Rand der Lore hinausschauen sehen.

Byzantine posted:

I’m ok with anything that blames Venice.
I see what you did there.

Zopotantor
Feb 24, 2013

...und ist er drin dann lassen wir ihn niemals wieder raus...


Wipfmetz posted:

I see what you did there.

Didn’t you pay attention? It’s Venice wot did it.

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008


Wipfmetz posted:

I see what you did there.

Doge Dandolo didn't. But the Eastern Romans would. Oh, they would.

Jasper Tin Neck
Nov 13, 2008


"Scientifically proven, rich and creamy."



zedprime posted:

Doesn't that describe most places with metal working or carpentry for houses and boats? The acres per cabin and acres per tool numbers can be completely insane and don't even get started on ships.

I think Alhazred is being facetious, because the greater part of Scandinavian history consists of the state trying to figure out how to squeeze some tax revenue and manpower from all the worthless and desolate forests. You need men and grain to fight wars and forests offered neither.

The border between Norway and Sweden wasn't properly established in the North until 1751, because nobody cared.

System Metternich
Feb 28, 2010

But what did he mean by that?



Here’s something that blew my mind a little: the man who was in all likelihood the last person to have served the Weimar Republic as a soldier died only this morning!

Ludwig Piller was born in 1914 and joined up with the Reichswehr the day he turned 18 in 1932. Piller was fascinated with aviation and ended up as a mechanic with the air force, which at that time still had to be kept a secret due to the Treaty of Versailles forbidding Germany from operating one. By sheer chance Piller met Ernst Udet, the legendary fighter ace from WW1 who took a liking to the young soldier and arranged for him to be trained as a pilot. Twelve days after the start of WW2 and right before his being sent to Poland, Piller married his girlfriend so that she would be able to receive a widow's rent if he wouldn't make it back. The marriage lasted right to his death, at which point the two had been a couple for 84 years. Despite being shot down twice, Piller survived the war and claimed that after Germany's surrender he even was kept by the US along with other pilots for a while in case the war with Japan would drag on longer. After the war Piller worked as a salesman. He died at the ripe old age of 106.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


System Metternich posted:

Here’s something that blew my mind a little: the man who was in all likelihood the last person to have served the Weimar Republic as a soldier died only this morning!

Ludwig Piller was born in 1914 and joined up with the Reichswehr the day he turned 18 in 1932. Piller was fascinated with aviation and ended up as a mechanic with the air force, which at that time still had to be kept a secret due to the Treaty of Versailles forbidding Germany from operating one. By sheer chance Piller met Ernst Udet, the legendary fighter ace from WW1 who took a liking to the young soldier and arranged for him to be trained as a pilot. Twelve days after the start of WW2 and right before his being sent to Poland, Piller married his girlfriend so that she would be able to receive a widow's rent if he wouldn't make it back. The marriage lasted right to his death, at which point the two had been a couple for 84 years. Despite being shot down twice, Piller survived the war and claimed that after Germany's surrender he even was kept by the US along with other pilots for a while in case the war with Japan would drag on longer. After the war Piller worked as a salesman. He died at the ripe old age of 106.

Yeah he really was overshadowed by his much more notorious relative.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



Far as I know the Weimar Republic didn't have any critical air wars, so rather, let's cheer the death of another nazi.

NLJP
Aug 26, 2004




Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Far as I know the Weimar Republic didn't have any critical air wars, so rather, let's cheer the death of another nazi.

I mean, you're right about the last part being bad but 'serving in' an army is not the same as 'fought in' one.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



NLJP posted:

I mean, you're right about the last part being bad but 'serving in' an army is not the same as 'fought in' one.

"Twelve days after the start of WW2 and right before his being sent to Poland, Piller married his girlfriend so that she would be able to receive a widow's rent if he wouldn't make it back. The marriage lasted right to his death, at which point the two had been a couple for 84 years. Despite being shot down twice, Piller survived the war"

what war was it that he get shot down in, again? Maybe he was just a really, really dedicated private Siemens pilot who fought alongside John Rabe.

Edgar Allen Ho has a new favorite as of 00:26 on Apr 21, 2021

Fatty Crabcakes
Jan 31, 2008

HISSSSSSSSSSSSS



NLJP posted:

I mean, you're right about the last part being bad but 'serving in' an army is not the same as 'fought in' one.
Weird flex mein herr

BasicLich
Oct 22, 2020


oof lets hope this is the last post in yet another "clean wehrmacht/luftwaffe" derail

Red Bones
Aug 9, 2012

"I think he's a bad enough person to stay ghost through his sheer love of child-killing."



BasicLich posted:

oof lets hope this is the last post in yet another "clean wehrmacht/luftwaffe" derail

How many Germans defected from Nazi Germany or refused to join the military during the war? Did a lot of them leave for countries in the Americas when the Nazis first came to power?

I'm curious given this man's situation was that he joined the military before the Nazis came to power and then stayed in the army after that transition. Did a lot of people leave instead of doing that? I know there were a lot of intellectuals who left because of the persecution, but what about regular people? Or career soldiers?

I'm not asking this in a defending the Nazis way BTW, the post just made me realise I have no idea how many people left Germany because the fascists came to power.

Red Bones has a new favorite as of 10:48 on Apr 21, 2021

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


He could've just flown out lmao.

BasicLich
Oct 22, 2020


i dont care

get a load of this incredible Sapphire and Gold ring in carved in the Intaglio style which may have been worn by roman emperor Caligua




e:

side view


Intaglio face (believed to be the profile of Caesonia)

BasicLich has a new favorite as of 11:13 on Apr 21, 2021

NLJP
Aug 26, 2004




I was talking about how he served in the Weimar army without fighting for them. I know he fought for the nazis which is yes, very bad

E:maybe I misread the post I replied to but I thought it was implying his serving in the Weimar air force didn't count as being the last surviving person to have been in that army because he didn't 'fight' in it.

NLJP has a new favorite as of 13:11 on Apr 21, 2021

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



Red Bones posted:

How many Germans defected from Nazi Germany or refused to join the military during the war? Did a lot of them leave for countries in the Americas when the Nazis first came to power?

I'm curious given this man's situation was that he joined the military before the Nazis came to power and then stayed in the army after that transition. Did a lot of people leave instead of doing that? I know there were a lot of intellectuals who left because of the persecution, but what about regular people? Or career soldiers?

I'm not asking this in a defending the Nazis way BTW, the post just made me realise I have no idea how many people left Germany because the fascists came to power.

Not a lot. Which isn't really an indictment on the germans but rather a lesson in why fascists should be stopped before they come to power. The frothing fascists are obviously the most culpable but loads of normal-rear end people often go along once the horrible poo poo is normalized. There probably weren't a lot of people smashing jewish businesses in 1933 who thought "yep, when my son bravely serves in the glorious Wehrmacht he is going to gun down hundreds of women and children in Ukraine" but... nazis. Plenty of countries literally under nazi military occupation ended up enthusiastically handing over their own jews too.

Since this is mostly the PYF Scandinavian History Fun Fact thread though: danes managed to rescue almost all of the danish jews and send them to safety in Sweden. Hitler had planned to start the arrests on Rosh Hashanah. But the delightfully-named german diplomat Georg Ferdinand Duckwitz leaked the plan and Denmark's chief Rabbi Marcus Melchior told everyone that our most holy days were cancelled and everyone must flee. And then a bunch of danish goyim were like "yeah sure, we'll help you flee, hop on my fishing trawler and we'll head to Reyjavik and then onwards to Malmö"

or something like that I don't know how nordic distances work

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


Malmo by way of Reykjavik. Talk about going around your elbow to get to your thumb

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Think something witty and pretend it's written here.



Dude you can take a rowboat from Denmark to Sweden if you really need to. You can literally see from Malmö harbor to the Denmark.

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm not a hero...





BasicLich posted:

i dont care

get a load of this incredible Sapphire and Gold ring in carved in the Intaglio style which may have been worn by roman emperor Caligua




e:

side view


Intaglio face (believed to be the profile of Caesonia)


Say what you want about the Romans, but they did have an aesthetic.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



that was a joke

Because back before shockingly recently it was faster to take a boat to Copenhagen and back than to go overland from one coast of Iceland to the other.

There is a reason I said Malmö and not Stockholm or, you know, another swedish city. I'm actually struggling to name a third swedish city. Visby is on Gotland. Umea but the a has the o on it. Way up north! thank you for listening to my stream of consciousness

e: Lund is another one close to the oresund!

Edgar Allen Ho has a new favorite as of 17:04 on Apr 21, 2021

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Think something witty and pretend it's written here.



Edgar Allen Ho posted:

that was a joke

Because back before shockingly recently it was faster to take a boat to Copenhagen and back than to go overland from one coast of Iceland to the other.

There is a reason I said Malmö and not Stockholm or, you know, another swedish city. I'm actually struggling to name a third swedish city. Visby is on Gotland. Umea but the a has the o on it. Way up north! thank you for listening to my stream of consciousness

Well, on that you are sort of right that there basically is Stockholm, Malmö and Gothenburg. Also Luleå if you need to come up with something in the North in Swedish Lappland and Jonköping if you need something that is inland/large lakes-area.

Der Kyhe has a new favorite as of 17:09 on Apr 21, 2021

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Der Kyhe posted:

Dude you can take a rowboat from Denmark to Sweden if you really need to. You can literally see from Malmö harbor to the Denmark.

As demonstrated by the poem Terje Vigen:
The smallest dory there was to hand
he chose for his Skagen trip.
Sail and mast he left home on land,-
such gear he thought best not ship.
He reckoned, did Terje, the boat would steer
though seas ram a bit a-beam;
the Jutland reef was the devil to clear,-
but worse, he'd the English blockade to fear,
its look-out's eagle-eyed gleam.
Then trusting to fortune's grace profound
he smartly took on the oars.
At Fladstrand, reaching there safe and sound,
he gathered his precious stores.
God knows his cargo was nothing grand:
three casks of barley, that's all;
but Terje came from a wretched land,-
and here was the staff of life to hand;
and his wife and baby call.
He slaved on the thwart for three nights and days,
that brave and powerful man;
the fourth, at dawn, by sun's first rays,
a blurred, misty line to scan.
It wasn't the skeltering clouds he spied,
it was mountain and summit and brae:
but high above the ridges' pride,
Imenes-Saddle, blue and wide.
He knew then just where he lay.


The poem is about a man trying to smuggle food to his wife and kids during the british blockade of Norway in 1809.

Molentik
Apr 30, 2013



Red Bones posted:

How many Germans defected from Nazi Germany or refused to join the military during the war?


A lot of them joined the International Brigades during the Spanish Civil War so they werent around anymore to defect once WWII broke out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsyP-9P4aao

Molentik has a new favorite as of 22:17 on Apr 23, 2021

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!



Most of the open dissidents, rebels, and commies were either already in concentration camps as early as 1933 or left the country while they still could.


Here's a 70s version of a song written by left-wing political prisoners in the Börgermoor labour camp in 1933:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-boCKJsDe5U
The prisoners were forbidden from singing traditional union or socialist songs so they had to invent new ones the guards didn't recognize.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




ive been trying to find the perfect english performance of Nordahl Griegs poem Til Ungdommen (To the Youth) but i think it may not be possible. youtube is a garbage platform. the poem was written in 1936 about the spanish civicl war. then fascism spread further and grieg & many others died, and we still have fascism.

ever valid, this is the best i can do: a decent translation with a pretty good singer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz3rafGZ4AI

in recent years, weirdos have tried to make it something else. gently caress that and gently caress them. it is a song about brotherhood and sisterhood and love and the preservation of earth and love. it will forever be that.

Carthag Tuek has a new favorite as of 00:09 on Apr 24, 2021

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Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Carthag Tuek posted:

ive been trying to find the perfect english performance of Nordahl Griegs poem Til Ungdommen (To the Youth) but i think it may not be possible. youtube is a garbage platform. the poem was written in 1936 about the spanish civicl war. then fascism spread further and grieg & many others died, and we still have fascism.

ever valid, this is the best i can do: a decent translation with a pretty good singer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz3rafGZ4AI

in recent years, weirdos have tried to make it something else. gently caress that and gently caress them. it is a song about brotherhood and sisterhood and love and the preservation of earth and love. it will forever be that.
This was the song the youth sang on 22nd july sang to keep their spirits up when they swam from the island where the terrorist tried to shoot them. Then a couple of days later it was sung when 150 000 people gathered to show their support for the victims. I was part of that crowd so that's an extremely emotional song for me.

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