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ChubbyChecker posted:wait until you hear about polish submarines They flew it to the sun at night?
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Apr 11, 2021 22:48
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FreudianSlippers posted:The Vasa sunk in the exact right conditions to be well preserved so they raised up in mostly one piece centuries later and Stockholm has a museum where you can look at it. I've been to this museum, it's really great.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:35
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Those masts seem tiny
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Apr 12, 2021 04:00
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FreudianSlippers posted:The Vasa sunk in the exact right conditions to be well preserved so they raised up in mostly one piece centuries later and Stockholm has a museum where you can look at it. When it was brought to surface, there was a miniature nude statue of Paavo Nurmi on the deck.
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Apr 12, 2021 04:09
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Milo and POTUS posted:Those masts seem tiny
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Apr 12, 2021 04:10
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Fatty Crabcakes posted:It was in cold water for centuries. Don't judge. Also it was literally a Grovership, not a showership.
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Apr 12, 2021 04:15
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C.M. Kruger posted:IIRC the torpedo battery commander was also a pensioner who'd retired back in 1927 and had come back to help train the students at the request of the fort commander. What a rough hand to have fate deal you. Imagine finding out that OOPS YOU'RE AN ACTIVE COMBATANT IN WORLD WAR II when all you wanted to do was train some young nincompoops because the fort commander asked you real nice to just come and show them the ropes, that's all, then you can go home. FreudianSlippers posted:The Vasa sunk in the exact right conditions to be well preserved so they raised up in mostly one piece centuries later and Stockholm has a museum where you can look at it. Why the ship booty look like a Hindu temple tho???
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Apr 12, 2021 05:10
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Milo and POTUS posted:Those masts seem tiny Yeah, like, even if you live thousands of miles away from open water and don't know the first thing about boats the proportions just intuitively looked super hosed up. It looks like they built it wrong, as a joke.
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Apr 12, 2021 06:25
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Serious answer, they cut the masts off to fit into the building. Sorry
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Apr 12, 2021 06:32
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bony tony posted:Serious answer, they cut the masts off to fit into the building. Sorry Why didn't they just lower the
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Apr 12, 2021 06:33
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they’re still on display but outside the actual building 
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Apr 12, 2021 06:57
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Did they contract Grover to design that museum building
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Apr 12, 2021 07:00
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That building also owns
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Apr 12, 2021 07:12
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The original masts were taller than the ship, the ship is 5+ stories high, that entrance in the picture is at level 4. Standing underneath the thing it's a trip to realize it was all built by hand with hand tools 400 years ago.
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Apr 12, 2021 07:28
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:The original masts were taller than the ship, the ship is 5+ stories high, that entrance in the picture is at level 4. Standing underneath the thing it's a trip to realize it was all built by hand with hand tools 400 years ago. ...And the reason why it capsized was because it had one extra gun floor added to it after the initial design so the measurements and the center of weight seem off because they are. That's kinda the point of it.
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Apr 12, 2021 08:18
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On a related note: In order to build a ship like that, you obviously need a lot of wood. If you want to build an entire fleet, you'll need lots of woods. In 1807 Denmark lost yet another battle, and England captured the entire Danish fleet. So the king and admiralty of Denmark ordered several oak forests to be planted in order to have lumber ready in case something similar happened again. Not a dumb move considering our war record. The problem is that oak trees don't grow that quickly. Around 90,000 trees were fully grown and of a quality to be used in ship construction... 25 years ago. But it wasn't a complete waste, since the Viking Ship Museum in Roskilde used some of the trees in the reconstruction of a viking age ship.
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Apr 12, 2021 08:26
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Europe looks really good with lots a trees and it sucks there are none in the west anymore
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Apr 12, 2021 08:44
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NFX posted:The problem is that oak trees don't grow that quickly. Around 90,000 trees were fully grown and of a quality to be used in ship construction... 25 years ago. Same thing happened in Sweden, the Navy chief got a phonecall in 1975 telling them the oak trees they planted in the early 1800s were now fully grown and they could come pick them up if they wanted to (they didn't).
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Apr 12, 2021 08:47
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Comrade Koba posted:Same thing happened in Sweden, the Navy chief got a phonecall in 1975 telling them the oak trees they planted in the early 1800s were now fully grown and they could come pick them up if they wanted to (they didn't). Good news is the price of lumber has gone up!
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Apr 12, 2021 08:52
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NFX posted:So the king and admiralty of Denmark ordered [in 1807] several oak forests to be planted in order to have lumber ready in case something similar happened again. I guess they were aware of this delay. It's pretty cool and telling of character to plan something that far ahead, to invest into something which will only grant benefits 200 years later. But which has to be done that way, because there's just no other way to get reliable wood sources aside from "grow forests".
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Apr 12, 2021 09:05
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I like to imagine that the guy who made the phone call was completely surprised that the trees weren't needed anymore.
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Apr 12, 2021 09:39
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WITCHCRAFT posted:Why the ship booty look like a Hindu temple tho??? it was the style at the time bony tony posted:Serious answer, they cut the masts off to fit into the building. Sorry the masts weren't cut, they were just removed, just like they would have been removed before storms Wipfmetz posted:I guess they were aware of this delay. It's pretty cool and telling of character to plan something that far ahead, to invest into something which will only grant benefits 200 years later. But which has to be done that way, because there's just no other way to get reliable wood sources aside from "grow forests". another way would be to get colonies
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Apr 12, 2021 10:00
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This happened in Britain too. There's a country estate (in the Welsh Borders, I think) which has an oak plantation where all the trees are strangely deformed near their base but then grow straight for the rest of their height. It's because when they were planted in the 1820s they were tied/pinned into the shapes needed to be make the curved structural bits of a ship, then in the 1850s it was realised that they weren't needed and the trees were 'released' to grow naturally. There's a plantation in Scotland which supplies timber for restoration projects on old sailing ships (including HMS Victory) and houses/structures from trees that were growing when Victory was still in active service. The UK Forestry Commission was founded in 1919 when it was realised that 1000+ years of shipbuilding, a century of neglect once wood fell from favour for ships, growing demand for timbers for coal mine prop and roofs and, finally, a surge in demand for wood for rifle butts and barrels in WW1 had essentially picked Britain and Ireland clean of mature timber. In the early 1920s when Captain Scott's former ship Discovery was being refitted they had to import timber from Quebec because there was none suitably from a domestic source.
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Apr 12, 2021 10:25
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Even in the US, the Navy still manages a 50,000 acre white oak forest reserve solely for the purpose of maintaining USS Constitution.
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Apr 12, 2021 10:35
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Milo and POTUS posted:Europe looks really good with lots a trees and it sucks there are none in the west anymore Is there any old-growth forest left in Europe? Even in North America I think it's basically just in the PNW and the canadian boreal forests. If we managed that in a few hundred years I can't imagine european forests fared well In France at least the only thing approaching a forest I've ever seen is in the Vosges. Edgar Allen Ho has a new favorite as of 12:07 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 12:05
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Is there any old-growth forest left in Europe? Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraina.
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Apr 12, 2021 12:09
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Is there any old-growth forest left in Europe? Even in North America I think it's basically just in the PNW and the canadian boreal forests. If we managed that in a few hundred years I can't imagine european forests fared well I was about to say plenty in northern and eastern but I actually don't know about old growth. There's this great big green glob about 80 miles south of Paris and I can't find anything about it on wikipedia. It's about 1000 square miles but it's almost certainly replanted if I had to guess
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Apr 12, 2021 14:24
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Civilization has been deforesting land for millennia. Some Roman industrial processes required charcoal, and they completely deforested at least one island and an awful lot of regular land, making it.
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Apr 12, 2021 14:30
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Milo and POTUS posted:I was about to say plenty in northern and eastern but I actually don't know about old growth. I think that would be Gâtinais français, which is quite pretty but definitely replanted.
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Apr 12, 2021 14:44
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:The original masts were taller than the ship, the ship is 5+ stories high, that entrance in the picture is at level 4. Standing underneath the thing it's a trip to realize it was all built by hand with hand tools 400 years ago. My big "I can't believe people built these regularly" trip are Helepolii: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helepolis I thought this was something clash of clans made up for mobile entertainment purposes. Imagine this showing up to your city one day. Yeesh.
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Apr 12, 2021 15:25
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Civilization has been deforesting land for millennia. Some Roman industrial processes required charcoal, and they completely deforested at least one island and an awful lot of regular land, making it.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:20
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GolfHole posted:My big "I can't believe people built these regularly" trip are Helepolii: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helepolis On the topic of siege weaponry, Edward I refused to accept Stirling Castle's surrender until he'd had a chance to fire his new trebuchet, Warwolf, at it.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:27
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Alhazred posted:Ancient Greece was almost completely deforested, causing erosion which again caused springs and streams to dry up. Plato is quoted lamenting over how the mountains in Attika were almost completely barren because of this. The middle east was mostly a lush forest and savannah 12000 years ago before humans systematically cut down all forests and had their livestock graze the sad remains into the dry lands characteristic of the region today. The european neolithic period had large heathlands all over Europe for the same reasons.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:49
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Dissolved salts in the tigris/euphrates were present in high enough concentrations that actual salt crusts formed on formerly productive farmland in the decades leading up to the collapse of irrigated agriculture in that area, which can be tracked in their historical records. They were also aware of the declines as they were happening and kept increasing the use of salt-tolerant crops, but in the end they couldn't solve the problem.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:58
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And that bastion of wilderness which is the Amazon rainforest might have been mostly cultivated land a few centuries ago. Then humans dissappeared due to disease and societal collapse and whoops, nature reclaimed her lands once again. Much smaller scale of that is what has happened around chernobyl too.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:59
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Those huge monoculture logging forests are really disquieting to walk through, they're a hellscape in terms of biodiversity. You go down from millions of diverse species down to like a few dozen, just waiting for the next failure cascade to take the whole thing out. Human industry is a hell of a thing.. everything it touches turns to poo poo
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Apr 12, 2021 19:13
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boofhead posted:Those huge monoculture logging forests are really disquieting to walk through, they're a hellscape in terms of biodiversity. You go down from millions of diverse species down to like a few dozen, just waiting for the next failure cascade to take the whole thing out. Human industry is a hell of a thing.. everything it touches turns to poo poo Here they at least try to keep them semi-multicultured with some preservation actions per areas cleared, but then again they also were plowing the new forests floors ~1 meter deep every 3 meters on north-south direction especially on the eastern parts of the country to "manage floods and encourage new growth". This has nothing to do with the Russia, promised.
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Apr 12, 2021 19:18
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Zudgemud posted:And that bastion of wilderness which is the Amazon rainforest might have been mostly cultivated land a few centuries ago. Then humans dissappeared due to disease and societal collapse and whoops, nature reclaimed her lands once again. Much smaller scale of that is what has happened around chernobyl too. I mean, that's basically the bright spot. Once we do manage to kill ourselves off, the natural world will spring back in decades. Hell, the covid lockdowns show it'd start immediately once our lovely species is gone.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:05
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The Persian Gulf coastline has changed dramatically and that’s something that historians do not always emphasise.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:58
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Angrymog posted:On the topic of siege weaponry, Edward I refused to accept Stirling Castle's surrender until he'd had a chance to fire his new trebuchet, Warwolf, at it. Not gonna lie, if I'd been on the surrendering side I'd probably have been down with that too.
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Apr 14, 2021 10:27
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