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barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Brawnfire posted:






My guess would be company cooks for their unit.

If I know my French, the dude with the ceremonial frying pan is the Captain of the entire Janissaries. I love the symbolism, I would love to know more!

Now I kinda want to see a military junta which uses cooking utensils for decoration, instead of the usual fascist eagle-themed regalia :haw:

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barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


The Founding Fathers were booze hounds to a man. The Declaration of Independence itself was drafted by Jefferson in a tavern, and the lot of them probably didn't see a sober day until the War of Independence was over, after which the real drinking began:

Modern Drunkard posted:

If there is anything left to be said regarding George Washington and his presidency it’s this: while in office he spent over seven percent of his sizable income on alcohol.

Apparently Benedict Arnold was not a fan of drinking. Figures. :v:

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


I just learned that Renato Bialetti, the son of the inventor of the Moka Pot and the long-time CEO of the eponymous company, was buried in an urn shaped like... you guessed it,



Not surprised they decided to cremate his body :v:

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Fish of hemp posted:

If I ever get a change to time travel I would travel to a victorian London. To get a feeling how that place would have smelled.

Booming industry, coal heating, animals living among people, people who don't ready access to running water and bathing, no washing machines.

It must have been sort of miasma we can't even imagine today.

You could just go check out any major third-world city today and get the same effect. I hear that Bangladesh is pretty good for making you feel p. drat guilty about your own quality of life :smith:

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Americans also always forget that in Europe the cheap home computer was king. Nintendo and Sega became more of a thing as the 1990s rolled around, but for a good while in the 1980s it was Commodore 64 and then Amiga all the way. (Brits had their Spectrums and whatnot.)

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


In Prussia, a dueling scar was considered an essential part of a fashionable male student's attire until the early 1900s. Since duels were fought with big military swords, they weren't just small nicks either:

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Moldless Bread posted:

I can see the logic behind dueling, though. It enforces the social etiquette by making someone directly responsible for their claims. If you catch someone spreading lies about you, you're socially sanctioned to attack them for it.
Presumably, if you publicly speak out against someone, you only do it if the matter is important enough to be worth potentially dying for.

How it shakes out in reality is a different matter, of course...

In reality you just get a bunch of college kids stabbing each other in the face over the slightest insult because everyone must have a scar to be considered a Real Manly Man. :v:

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Speaking of student fencing, there is still the interesting tradition in Finnish academia (and maybe in some other Nordic countries as well?) of graduating doctors receiving the right to wear a special 'civil sword' as a part of their academic regalia. They're allowed to carry it in academic festivities as a symbol of their willingness to defend Truth and Bildung with the weapons of spirit, all strictly symbolic, of course.

I'm due to get my own silly hat and sword next summer and I'm unreasonably excited about it, hah :3:

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Since learning about it in this thread yesterday, I mentioned Mensur to a friend who had just returned from a stint as a visiting fellow at a prestigious German university. He told me that someone had tried to recruit a friend of theirs, a fellow Finn, to a 'fencing' club. The friend was, surprise surprise, a tall and blonde man. Being of a leftist political persuasion, he feigned innocence and asked if anyone else than a tall blonde, say, for example, a person with darker hair or skin, were allowed in. The answer was something along the lines of "*wink* *wink* Probably not! *wink* *wink*" He passed on joining as he wasn't exactly thrilled about the idea of being recruited into a completely apolitical little blood-letting club. Jesus!

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


There's also North Ireland. It's pretty amazing that the figure of the IRA terrorist was such a mainstay of fiction until the 1990s and disappeared from the public imagination pretty much instantly after the Good Friday agreement. That doesn't mean that the sectarian divide disappeared in reality, but hey, a step towards the better, in any case.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


It's not as if Napoleon had any reason for holding back. He had beaten all of the world's best armies at that point and could rightfully boast being the biggest thing in military matters since Julius Caesar. His mouth wasn't writing any checks that his armies couldn't cash.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Ghost Leviathan posted:

It turns out nearly everything the British say about the French is probably projection.

What's pretty telling is that the French have a lot less of a constant need to bitterly badmouth the Brits than vice versa. Historical inferiority complexes between nations are usually very one-sided.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Those French losers who most definitely were so bad at war that almost all military terminology is derived from French.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


French soldiers get regular real-life practice, what with fighting constant low-level colonial conflicts in Francophone Africa like the 1960s never happened. French really are the most American country in Europe, no wonder they hate each others guts, hah.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Sulla Faex posted:

I think this page has been linked before, it definitely seems quite familiar, but for more details on napoleonic battlefield cleanup:

https://shannonselin.com/2016/07/napoleonic-battlefield-cleanup/

This was really interesting and morbid in equal measure, thank you.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


WITCHCRAFT posted:

The first quote in there really got to me. "It's a train wreck but you can't look away" seems like one of those universal human truths. Usually it's like "haha, that 13th century schoolkid made doodles just like me, some things never change!" or the Pompeii graffiti that would be right at home in a modern bathroom stall. This one seems just as universal, but it is hideously grim and morbid.

"The ground between the wood and the Russian batteries, about a quarter of a mile, was a sheet of naked human bodies, which friends and foes had during the night mutually stripped, although numbers of these bodies still retained consciousness of their situation. It was a sight that the eye loathed, but from which it could not remove."

Sometimes, it's really cool when a piece history puts your mind right there when it happened. Sometimes, you really wish it hadn't. :smith:

There's a line about that already in Plato's Republic:

The Republic, Book 4 posted:

The story is, that Leontius, the son of Aglaion, coming up one day from the Piraeus, under the north wall on the outside, observed some dead bodies lying on the ground at the place of execution. He felt a desire to see them, and also a dread and abhorrence of them; for a time he struggled and covered his eyes, but at length the desire got the better of him; and forcing them open, he ran up to the dead bodies, saying, Look, ye wretches, take your fill of the fair sight!

Some things really transcend history.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


A famine is often much harder on the colonized than on the colonialist. However, I also know that it doesn't necessarily turn you into a sad, depressed sack of tears for the rest of your life. People can move past it, and heal.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Comstar posted:

I thought that's one of the definition traits of every "Empire". Taking resources from the outer area's to the Imperial core and forcing the outer area's to give and grow the resources for them. What's an empire that hasn't done that?

Well, most empires don't have a state-sanctioned PR operation still active in 2021 which actively claims that the Brits were there to lift backwards peoples out of their misery and the natives should be thankful for all the good they did, drat it

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Biplane posted:

In Norway we call it "calling for the moose/elk" because you sound like a horned up moose when throwing up :eng101:

In Finland we call it "speaking Norwegian" or even "taking a call to Norway on the porcelain phone" because of all the black metal bands :eng101:

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Samovar posted:

Better than the 'Adolph Fredrick' tradition.

Please tell me how a liberal monarch who ensured unbeforeseen civil liberties to his people, made snuff boxes as a hobby and died from liking partying a bit too much was a worse exemplary than the war-addicted patron saint of Swedish neo nazis who brought nothing but ruin to his people. :colbert:

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


[Graffiti on the wall of the Swedish embassy] SCANDINAVIEN GÅR TILL HUSET

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Samovar posted:

FÖR SENT!

Ursäkta :doh:

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


3D Megadoodoo posted:

I think you mean recount, not recant?

I guess they hadn't heard yet that Generalissimo Fransisco Franco is still dead.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


I love that the Swedish defence doctrine in case of a full-scale Russian invasion from the sea used to be (still is?) pretty simple: just start driving all the Stridsvagn at the landing Russians as fast as you can and hope that there are many enough to stall the landing. Those things are extremely good at going forwards and shooting at things in front of them because that's their only role: either you stop the invasion or you get blown up from the air while trying. In either case there is no need for niceties like a turning turret. This in the optimistic case that thermonuclear warfare hasn't already broken out. Cold war was fun!

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007



This is the post I was half-remembering above, thank you for writing it!

e: I rediscovered this post about Swedish Radar MacGyver and it deserves to appear in this thread too since it is one of my favourite historical fun facts: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3872282&pagenumber=22&perpage=40#post489566959

barbecue at the folks has a new favorite as of 08:43 on May 10, 2021

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Alhazred posted:

Cause of death for roman emperors:
20 died of natural causes.
23 was assassinated.
9 died in battle.
8 was probably assassinated.
5 committed suicide.
1 died in captivity.

I want a similar list compiled of famous philosophers. Everyone knows that Athenians murdered Socrates for speaking his mind, but I just learned that the famous Stoic Chrysippos is said to have made his exit by laughing himself to death while watching a drunk donkey try to eat some figs. :allears:

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


girl dick energy posted:

The "See also" has some real winners, including the surprisingly long list of inventors killed by their own inventions.

This was a good one. Many here might be aware that Thomas Midgley Jr. was the man who invented both adding lead to fuel and CFCs, making him possibly the single most environmentally destructive person in history. What at least I didn't know is that he contracted polio later in life and after becoming disabled, invented an elaborate setup of ropes and pulleys to help him get up from bed. He got tangled in the wires and accidentally strangled himself to death. Dude couldn't catch a break!

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Today, in "Posting through Centuries",

https://twitter.com/MichaelShindler/status/1442474465506562049

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


We managed to get a very reasonable deal on an old house despite the market being what it is, because all the previous prospective buyers had been too tall to stand straight in the pre-WW2 basement where the laundry room and sauna are. Being short has its advantages sometimes, I guess.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


3D Megadoodoo posted:

No they don't? They don't ever need to sell to anyone. It's normal to die before you've sold a single home.

Ya, we're staying here until one of us kicks the bucket, if at all possible, this house is awesome and about to get a lot better with renovations. I love reading home improvement (HYUCK) threads on SA for tips, but the US mindset of "everything you do about your house should be about increasing its market value for its eventual flipping for Great Profit" baffles me. People here in the arctic wastes... just don't do that?

A historical fact for you: the predominant Finnish single-family home is called both "veteran house" and "die house", or "d6 house", to be exact. The first name comes from the great resettlement after WW2 when most cities and towns had massive suburban settlements created to house both the veterans returning from the war, as well as the refugees fleeing from the areas annexed by USSR. The solution was to give/sell a cheap small parcel of land to each family, on which they could build a "type house", with easy to follow instructions provided by the government. The type house was basically a cube with a roof on it - hence the name "noppatalo" or "die house.



The type house was easy to build out of any available materials with minimum amount of skills and tools required, a functionalist solution to the problem of housing an immense population in a very short time. (Ours was made by a carpenter master with access to proper materials - the walls are brick and the original woodwork is top-notch and still in the condition it was in 1948. The "renovations" done in the 1970s and early 2000s, though... :sigh: ) Some hundreds of thousands were erected before 1970s and dot the entire Finnish landscape from Helsinki to Sodankylä. The house was inspired by American and Japanese examples. I think the influence of the popular Sears prefabs from early 1900s can also be seen in the Type House!



It's a perfect house for the Nordic climate: all the rooms are centered around a central chimney that warms the entire house while the minimum surface area retains that heat effectively. Ours has central heating and had its fireplaces removed in the 1970s. Since the price of heating oil is just going up, we're gonna install new modern fireplaces and a heat pump as soon as we get the chance. With luck, this place should be fit for living a 100 years from now on. With the rising sea levels, at that point it should also be beachfront property. Our grandkids will surely be pleased with our foresight.

barbecue at the folks has a new favorite as of 13:18 on Nov 14, 2021

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


One of my favourite quotes ever:

Roald Amundsen posted:

Adventure is just bad planning.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


I love the thought of someone putting together a team to explore the Arctic, realizing halfway that they're surrounded by idiots who will probably get themselves killed and just noping out of your own expedition.

- Hey, Stefansson, where you going?
- [startled that someone noticed them leaving and looking very guilty] To... uhh... to hunt some reindeer meat! I'll be right back!
- Cool! Bring a big piece for me, hah!
- ...sure. [starts briskly walking towards the horizon]

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


3D Megadoodoo posted:

Vaikka Medjedin märinä
Voi värisyttää välillä
Käy Kuninkaiden Laaksoon
Käy Kuninkaiden Laaksoon

I honestly thought for a moment that this is from a CMX song I somehow haven't heard before

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


ChubbyChecker posted:

what is an "elvis"?

He's the tiger friend of Paavo here:

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Gaius Marius posted:

It goes even farther than that. The Nio statues outside Buddhist temples in Japan and China are derived from Hercules statuary.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nio

Cultural exchange between West and East was a lot more active than people usually think. There are people suggesting that the Greek word "therapeutai" (from which "therapy" ofc derived from) might have been adopted by philosopher Philo of Alexandria to describe Theravadan Buddhist monks ("Theraputta") who possibly were living and studying in Alexandria around 100 BCE - 50 CE. There was also a whole Hellenistic Greco-Buddhist culture in Central Asia around the time that was a result of strong trade links between the Roman and the Hellenic world, India, and even China and Japan. It's all super interesting stuff!

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Finnish name law is also fairly strict (translation mine from KOTUS):

quote:

The name law

protects surnames already in use

aims to separate first names from surnames

aims to separate female and male names

aims to direct parents to choose proper and fitting first names with the best interest of the child in mind [basically this means that the name can be something novel, but must follow some social or religious precedent, has to sound Finnish if the parents are Finnish, and has to be something a child can be expected to be able to live with]

demands that a new surname follows Finnish naming practice in form and ortography

places both members of a married couple in equal standing when choosing a surname

demands that siblings are given the same surname

demands, that a child receives their surname according to the same principles, whether born in or outside legal marriage

So yeah, no Gaylord Hitler Napoleons here either.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


3D Megadoodoo posted:

"How aboat a nice bag of beaver anus, eh?"

Poutine sounds gross

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007



:hai: There is a report of the case:

Bell's New Weekly Messenger, April 30, 1837, p. 6-7 posted:

A DEARLY-BOUGHT KISS

Caroline Newton was indicted for assaulting Thomoas Saverland and biting off his nose. The complainant, whose face bore incontestible evidence of the severe injury inflicted, the fleshy part of the left nostril being completely gone, stated that on the day after Christmas Day he was in a tap-room where were defendant and her sister. The sister laughingly observed that she had left her young man down at Birmingham, and had promised him no man should kiss her while absent. Complainant regarded this observation as a challenge, especially it being holiday time, and caught hold of her and kissed her. She took it in good part as joke, but defendant became angry, and desired she might have as little of that kind of fun as he pleased. Complainant told her if she was angry he would kiss her also and tried to do it. A scuffle ensued, and they both fell to the ground. After they got up complainant went and stood by the fire, and the defendant followed and struck at him. He again closed with her and tried to kiss her, and in the scuffle he was heard to cry out, She has got my nose in her mouth.” When they parted he was bleeding profusely from the nose, and a portion of it, which defendant had bitten off, she was seen to spit out of her mouth upon the ground. The defendant, a fat, middle-aged woman, treated the matter with great levity, and said he had no business to kiss her sister, or attempt to kiss her, in a public house; they were not such kind of people.

If she wanted to be kissed, she had a husband to kiss her, and he was a much handsomer man than defendant ever was, even before he lost his nose. The Chairman told the jury that it mattered little which way their verdict went. If they found her guilty the court would not fine her more than 1s., as the prosecutor had brought the punishment on himself. The jury, without hesitation, acquitted her. The Chairman told the prosecutor he was sorry for the loss of his nose, but if he would play with cats, he must expect to get scratched. Turning to the jury, the Chairman afterwards said, "Gentlemen, my opinion is that if a man attempts to kiss a woman against her will, she has a right to bite his nose off if she has a fancy for so doing."-"And eat it too," added a learned gentleman at the bar. The case caused much laughter to all except the poor complainant.

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007


Jimmy Carter visited Poland in the 1970s and got himself a bad translator for the trip, so folks were treated to the spectacle of the US President turning up saying he's here to gently caress and is never leaving: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20150202-the-greatest-mistranslations-ever

quote:

Jimmy Carter knew how to get an audience to pay attention. In a speech given during the US President’s 1977 visit to Poland, he appeared to express sexual desire for the then-Communist country. Or that’s what his interpreter said, anyway. It turned out Carter had said he wanted to learn about the Polish people’s ‘desires for the future’.

Earning a place in history, his interpreter also turned “I left the United States this morning” into “I left the United States, never to return”; according to Time magazine, even the innocent statement that Carter was happy to be in Poland became the claim that “he was happy to grasp at Poland's private parts”.

Unsurprisingly, the President used a different interpreter when he gave a toast at a state banquet later in the same trip – but his woes didn’t end there. After delivering his first line, Carter paused, to be met with silence. After another line, he was again followed by silence. The new interpreter, who couldn’t understand the President’s English, had decided his best policy was to keep quiet. By the time Carter’s trip ended, he had become the punchline for many a Polish joke.

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barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007



I love how it's hard to judge by the fashion if this was published in the early 20th century or the 21st

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