Hogge Wild posted:

kannatetaan

endlessmonotony posted:

It's a compromise where we get the worst side of everything and everyone's boned because infighting gets in the way of solving the problem in any way.

It's a very Finnish compromise. It may not be the solution we need, but by Ukko, it's the solution we deserve.

Oldsmobile posted:

The main problem with all but a completely monolithic government health care systems is the cost. Private health care is under all systems more expensive.

But I'm not sure I want a completely public monolithic system and I'm willing to pay a bit more for a mixed system as long as the tax money pumping big money contracts are eradicated.

But the system the government seems to be pushing is replacing a public monolith with a private monolith and that won't save money. So more cuts are ahead.

But like I said, you can't cut from healthcare because it will always bite you on the rear end. Public health crisis cost tenfold compared to just simply paying for a couple of doctor's visits.

DarkCrawler posted:

Sweden isn't doing that, though. It's not even the first European country to utilize border checks, so I don't know what you're flipping about. This is actually positive to Finland, and organized registration and admittance of refugees is in itself a positive. It doesn't mean that Sweden is blocking anyone from applying to asylum in Sweden.

Ligur posted:

So Spain, France, Slovenia and Molvania are standing in the way of money being used to control EU borders, you are saying? They, like, sabotage any attempts to do so.

The evil capitalist hitler plan of the Belgians is to un-control EU borders!!!12

Hogge Wild posted:

main reason i read this thread is to see marxists poo poo their pants when they read ligur's posts

Ligur posted:

Because of D&D, can't say if serious or just D&D.

Jerry Cotton posted:

D&D as in käiväröinti ja huutaminen or D&D as in dönzönsöndrögöns?

Ligur posted:

MONGOLS

(if you gon' probate me for this check out the other posts with not-that-much-input)

Ligur posted:

Hey Finns, if having an identity is harmful and equates opposing people with other identities, having read newspapers this week much to my detriment, is the Hitler-Satan why:

What is the point of having a country at all?
Why have a flag?
Why have national history?
Why have a national anthem?
Why vote?
Why pay taxes?
If borders are meaningless then why have them?

Jerry Cotton posted:

Triple A posted:

Ligur posted:

Yeah. What should they do?

I have been told that people will beat me up, that I should die in a fire, that all my relatives should die of cancer and so on right here, in D&D. (I have never, ever, said something like that to anyone on any forum, or in real life). IIRC some punk wanted to meet me in this thread for a beer so he could properly observe how cowardly I am, but didn't like his options after learning I teach people how to kick and punch.

I just don't give a poo poo. Neither should you. Or anyone else. That's it for "cyberbullying."

His Divine Shadow posted:

Apparently they snuck through a price hike for health care visits while nobody was looking. Striking right at the pockets of the poor. The lazy fuckers.

Oldsmobile posted:

I actually agree with what you're saying.

Here's my take on last night:
- I really loving hate nazis and I really hate it when people try to claim that what happened yesterday, was not a nazi march. It plainly was.
- Even though I agree with the basic idea of countering a nazi march with a demonstration, the counter demonstrators (who weren't all anarchists, though most probably were) went about it in a very dumb way that basically made things worse and just ended up making the nazis look good. Counter productive, destructive even. So gently caress that!
- No matter which way I look at it, it saddens me that the police protected a nazi march. That just plain feels wrong.
- The police probably shouldn't have shot at the counter demonstrators and they probably just wanted to try out their new toys in action. That's not cool and I don't want Finland to go there.

All this is basically just depressing as hell. Thanks everyone involved for loving up a perfectly good country!

Ligur posted:

Indeed, I was inspired by all the people like you who write about nazis who stürm the Finland, so I went to find out. I really wanted to see a real, hard-core, extreme right-wing nazi-march assault while sieg heiling, just to see if the talk and fear is real.

Nothing like that was evident. It's not real. It was mostly working and middle class men and women, from 18 to 50 year olds, walking peacefully, no flags, no ideology.

There were some leijona-hats, but that is a given in any "Finland!" -type event. Apart from that, no heiling, no marching in goosestep, no listening to Wager, no hate speech, no nothing. Just guys and most of all girls marching with torches to respect Suomi and the fallen. It was clear nobody was against anyone or anything during that walk. If that is what accounts to nazism/fascims these days then I understand your fears but I must say that said fears are loving stupid.

The only threat to anything was the random ineffectual group of (far-)leftists trying to stop the march and throwing police with stuff,

Rappaport posted:

Niinkun ystävä Ligur aiemmin taisi todeta, se oli kulkue jossa varmaan joo oli mukana natsihenkisiä ihmisiä. Ja ihmisiä joiden mielestä natsihenkisyys on aika helvetin tyhmää. Tämä ei välttämättä tarkoita, että kulkue itsessään saatika sen järjestäjät olisivat natseja. Voin lyödä stobesta vetoa, että jollakulla noista anarko-markoista jotka olivat riehumassa eilen on Leninin kuva seinällä; tämä ei tee anarko-markojen riehumisesta kommunistien mielenosoitusta. Ja jos jätetään semanttiset väännöt sikseen (joskin LOL tere tulemast D&D), en ole ihan vakuuttunut että 612-kulkue tai anarko-markot edustavat suurta riskiä yhteiskunnalliselle järjestykselle, Suomen valtiomuodolle tmv. Ite en menis tommoseen kulkueeseen koska en halua saada kananmunasta niskaani, mutta olenkin lihava laiskuri enkä varsinaisesti koe ilmaisuvapauttani rajoitetun. Ja siellä oli aika reilusti poliiseja vahtimassa markoja, että en varmaan ois saanu munasta vaikka oisinkin menny.

Summa summarum, minusta on vähäsen hassua että sinua pelottaa/huolettaa muutama sata ihmistä jotka halusivat marssia joko höpönationalismin/natseilun tai ihan vaan isäm maan puolesta itsenäisyyspäivänä. Se, että siellä oli Seppo "anaaliryssien vastustaja" Lehto poukkimassa matkassa tekee tapahtumasta lähinnä koomisemman, ei huolettavamman.

Friendly Tumour posted:

yeah and those nazis dont even call themselves nazis

Rappaport posted:

Didn't this thread start using Finnish after ScanPol threw a tantrum about Ligur?

Anyway, counter-point to mister Lassus, why should national-minded, non-Nazi folks let Nazis take over independence day? If only Nazis soihtukulkue, then all kulkueet are for Nazis, makes u think huh? Alternatively, who could organize a kulkue on independence day without being called a Nazi by the markot? Li Andersson, I suppose, but it doesn't seem entirely reasonable that everyone else who digs independence day is a Nazi by default.

Pussy Noise posted:

Just the other day, on my way to my hotel room in one of the most garish of post-soviet monuments in Eastern Europe, I was slightly inconvenenced by a bunch of Slav nationalists in their 20€ second hand leather jackets. What a bunch of Nazis! I literally had to take the elevator to the 26th floor and have a beer to calm my nerves before bed.

Fish of hemp posted:

When I was in high school I saw local scouts having their scout march.

It is quite a sight to see vaahtosammutinsized kids march in unison holding torches and singing "Sinun puolestas elää ja kuolla / on halumme korkehin!".

Nazis or no nazis, I don't think it's right that some 8 year old sings how he really, really wishes to die for Finnish flag some day.

Ligur posted:

Ja sehän ei tule muuttumaan kun saa enemmän voittoa rakentamalla kalliita perhe-asuntoja.

I've posted about this before (IIRC I wasn't the only one with this opinion) but Finland feels so paralyzed it's friggin' depressing. Just about nothing gets done about anything, apart from some minor cuts, some minor tax hikes (which, of course, at this point have added up to devastating effect) and otherwise it's just people expressing their personal opinions about what would be good and nice.

There's just this... crushing feeling of the whole kansakunta being impotent in the face of any issue. Doing thing X will always be found to be illegal or against some stiff degree or barely voted down in the city council (often for great reasons like "SDP and LA have to vote against every issue TF supports just out of principle"), and it's easier to let it rest than changing the drat regulation that stops doing thing X.

Urgh. After rage-lifting tons of iron I might get drunk and then make drunk posts for certain guys to be triggered to the point of screaming about 'spergers and fetal damage.

Ligur posted:

First one that comes to mind is Apotti -hanke. IIRC even the Left views with with a suspicion most of the time, but when the Vantaa persu city council voted against and wanted to re-evaluate the costs, it the whole left voted for it immediately. So that sounds like voting just because voting against someone on principle, not voting because of your own principle.

But brah, I'm not saying it's only the left or the right doing this, what I meant is that everyone is doing is just to spite each other with little care of what follows after.


Dunno. Denmark has a good track record of implementing policy changes on a pretty fast track when necessary. It feels as if (of course, this is a slighty hyperbole) Finland has not been able to do any major policy changes for 8+ years.

But glad you if you believe the system works.

Ligur posted:

I, uhh, don't?

Ligur posted:

Oldsmobile & Rexroom say: good dialoue is accusing everyone with a different view of racism. The lack of people freaking out with no reason makes the thread worse in their heads.

It would be funny if they didn't actually think like that.

Ligur posted:

Good idea, it's just that native West Europeans are not really allowed to worry over or protect themselves.

It's racist, you see.


Frankly, I find the nazi conspiracists amusing and its fun to make fun of them. Likewise with posters who are stuck on perceiving everythinig that involves foreigners through the lense of racism no matter if it's there or not.

Also ur wrong. My opinions change all the time. Therefore I sometimes forget that kukkahattusuvakkis are often incapable of changing theirs even in the face of whatever facts come about, or whatever happens in the real world. You can observe a person like this by certain characteristics: answering questions with questions of their own when they can't respond without looking foolish, the penchant of going into full on ad hominen insult attack when faced with things that might show their personal beliefs in controversial light (instead of even trying a constructive response). I don't need to go that low, because I have not adopted any beliefs or ideologies so deeply I am one with them.

Yeah, I know ironicat posts are coming, but come on, when have I ever responded to anyone by going batshit and typing "gently caress you gently caress you" tai "vittu oot ihan vammanen HAHAH KATTOKAA KAIKKI TOI ON VAMMANEN!"? That'll be basically never.

That is the reason why some people simply flip out if their opinion is contradicted, they believe in it so deeply it has become such an integrated part of their persona they take opposing views as personal attacks. Hence, the many "gently caress you!!" and "I hope you die of cancer!" posts you can see in D&D when, for example, I or whoever posts "these immigration policies are stupid as hell and often based on wishful thinking and even lies".

Like you, for example. Don't you believe that the hundreds of additional patrol missions and that a mere 30k new comers basically put the Finnish police force to its knees isn't worrying, and possibly the fault of racist Finns, and little to do with the new comers who behave like poo poo, or am I mistaken? You are free to correct me if I'm wrong. You worry about the ampumaraketti guy or the polttopullo dude who failed to burn anything instead, even though the latter have really not caused any damage and quite little fuss outside of SoMe, and with no conspiracies behind them I might add...

Ligur posted:

That motherfucker is weird.

If someone wonders what I get out of links that show the "varmaa kuolemaa pakenevat lapset" in a different light to meillä on unelma, I wonder what BGH gets out of regularly quoting my posts in full, adding more or less nothing.

Ligur posted:

That motherfucker is weird.

If someone wonders what I get out of links that show the "varmaa kuolemaa pakenevat lapset" in a different light to meillä on unelma, I wonder what BGH gets out of regularly quoting my posts in full, adding more or less nothing.

Darkest Auer posted:

And the religious indoctrination that perpetuates those literal centuries of war will of course magically go away once they reach a Western suvakkila.

Nauta posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8-Y6HEMS14

Darkest Auer posted:

Just like people in the Middle East have stopped stoning/beheading people to death oh wait

Look - and I might reveal myself as a Ligur here - education is the only solution. Cultural relativism and the whole "oh, it's their culture" nonsense is hurting the very people suvakkis are trying to protect. Religions are the worst and it is laughable that in tyool 2016 there is still an official Church in Finland.

Edit: kill everyone

OhYeah posted:

I should have thought the issue is obvious: a minority of people commiting the majority of crimes. You don't see that as a problem?

And who the gently caress says people turn a blind eye to rape when it's done by locals? What the gently caress, where does the ever happen?


You know what, I actually think that most black people love fried chicken. I mean who doesn't love fried chicken, it's delicious. And Koreans go crazy for kimchi, it's true, man.

But I get what you meant. We shouldn't a label a whole group of people based on stereotypical views about them. It's kind of hard not to do that sometimes, though. For example when you see a group of Turks and Kurds in a violent brawl... in the middle of Stockholm.


I guess that's why hundreds of them have pictures and videos of beheadings and stonings on their smartphones. I can only guess how many were smart enough to delete that poo poo before they got here.

OhYeah posted:

That's some serious mental gymnastics to arrive to that conclusion, but whatever. I can't disprove it, I just find that reasoning incredibly unlikely.


Can you care to explain what you mean by this? Because it makes no sense. The majority of crimes of a certain nature are committed by people of a certain, non-native background. That's the gist of it. You can't argue with facts, but you can ignore them, I guess.


Well I guess the main reason is that in a very brief time period, a very large group of people has been introduced to your country from another culture that has very different standards and values for gender equality and social hierarchy. So people become anxious and afraid. No one is sending out "anti-rape patrols" against locals because they know that the police and courts will deal with them. However, experience so far has shown that the politicians and the justice system is unwilling to deal with the problem with the same determination when it comes to immigrants or refugees lest they are labelled "racist". People don't trust their leaders because they have demonstrated that being perceived as "not racist" is more important to them than fighting a substantial societal problem.


I'm not really sure what this is, some sort of satire or sarcasm? Listen, no one is debating that multi-culturalism and diversity are beneficial, but they are not agreeing how the neo-progressive left defines those terms. Importing a permanent underclass of undereducated, religiously indoctrinated people from poorer parts of the world (many of whom don't share our basic values such as freedom of speech) and then failing to integrate them is not multi-culturalism. I remember reading about a certain country, it might have been Sweden, where they looked at where all the politicians and third sector workers who preach multi-culturalism actually live... most of them were in all-white, gated communities. That is the height of hypocrisy. They ruin the social cohesion of a country, force the working classes to deal with the problem and then label them "racist" when they speak their mind and point out the problems.

Ligur posted:

No.

He will just quote your post in full and add a link to a song or post a one-liner. He cannot be conversed with, ignore.

OhYeah posted:

This week there are millions of people in Germany who would describe the situation exactly like that.


Depends which country you are speaking about. In case of Finland, yes. In case of Sweden, hell no. Sweden actually stopped registering the ethnic background of sexual predators about 10 years ago because "men of foreign origin" were substantial part of the total number of criminals and it started to clash heavily with the official narrative.


Off the top of my head... thousands of young teen girls have been raped over a very long period in various cities in the UK by handful of Pakistani men. This was known for years and nothing was done, because the people who are responsible for the safety and well-being of their citizens didn't want to appear "racist". I think it's a pretty good example of the absolutely mental PC culture that puts misguided ideology before everything else, even safety of the people.

You can find examples like this all over Europe.


Help me out, thread. Am I supposed to respond to this?