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It's a compromise where we get the worst side of everything and everyone's boned because infighting gets in the way of solving the problem in any way. It's a very Finnish compromise. It may not be the solution we need, but by Ukko, it's the solution we deserve.
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Nov 7, 2015 15:19
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News are coming in the government's agreement on the amount of regions... isn't an agreement anymore. At this point I can not tell if these are fake news.
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Nov 8, 2015 03:29
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His Divine Shadow posted:Not quite, a variant of those but not the same, different taste/texture/shape. I only ever found them at Dragsvik sotilaskoti and they where much nicer than any berliner. I could almost rejoin the army for them. I know offhand like half a dozen places to grab 'em in Tampere, with little variations. Most of them in Kauppahalli.
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Nov 19, 2015 23:15
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His Divine Shadow posted:Sure you're not thinking of kermamunkkit? That might even be a picture of one, the elusive sputnik is hard to photograph. Nah, I'm thinking of "täytemunkki". Same basic idea as a kermamunkki, except it's jam-filled.
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Nov 20, 2015 22:39
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Ligur posted:In other news poster Rexroom doesn't care about poo poo about the (hundreds of, according to the police this morning) crimes the new arrivals commit... That's weak, even by your standards.
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Dec 2, 2015 23:56
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Ligur posted:Ahh, this is why the elderly and their pensions is a terrific economic boon to Finland, as are all the unemployed... Well, I'm glad that cutting the pensions and benefits has salvaged our economy.
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Dec 10, 2015 20:48
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Geriatric Pirate posted:I don't really care if they have to fill out forms to get government money. They're getting money for doing a job that doesn't make economic sense to do. Most of us don't have that luxury. Most of us can't just fill out some forms and then get government money to do what we want to do, we actually have to work jobs that provide things that people want at economically competitive prices and wages. If anything, the government should make the paperwork as difficult as possible to discourage farmers and maybe save us some money. Farm work doesn't make economic sense only in an economy where people don't have to eat if they don't get food cheap enough. Which I suppose is true, but the negative effects related to such choice tend to be powerful enough to seriously skew the market. As a result, government-subsidized farms substantially improve the prices for food sold to Finland - we do, afterall, have a choice to transition to entirely self-sustained before we run out. And as such, subsidizing local agriculture does make sense for the government. Doubly so when those agricultural workers would be difficult to employ in other, more profitable industries.
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Mar 11, 2016 18:45
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Geriatric Pirate posted:Ah great, our resident juche advocate is here to tell us to subsidize food to "make it cheap" (obviously, subsidies aren't counted in the price) instead of just buying it for cheap from abroad. This is like pissing into a sewer out of spite, but you're being willingly dense and everyone can see it, so I might as well. The advantage is in the Finnish government having a more stable negotiating position. If Finland didn't have the ability to supply itself on food, there would be motive for the suppliers to form a cartel and get substantially higher margins for their goods. Finland's remote and blocking trade enough to make it cost-ineffective to compete wouldn't be very difficult. This is rather simply what follows from the players involved acting in their own self-interest, and thus isn't even a leftist argument - subsidizing agriculture enough to prevent wide-scale starvation in the case of a trade blockade results in getting lower prices because it's harder to restrict supply to drive margins up. Free markets don't optimize for overall profit, they optimize for individual profit. This is basic poo poo, and you pretending to not understand it is frankly embarrassingly lazy. Step up yo trolling game, son.
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Mar 11, 2016 20:06
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Hogge Wild posted:i dont really get why people think that finnish food is somehow cleaner than eg. polish, italian or brazilian When a Finnish farmer poisons a bunch of Finnish children out of negligence, he risks being lynched. When a Chinese farmer poisons a bunch of Finnish children out of negligence, he just has to vanish.
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Mar 13, 2016 16:24
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DarkCrawler posted:It really is amazing how evangelistic neoliberalism is. Companies aren't godlike entities removed from the constraints of time and space. Rich people aren't ubermensch immune to law. We punish them all the time. We just need to punish them more efficiently and widely. There is a shitload of money in that business. You're acting like you'll actually get him to read your goddamn post instead of just coming up with some complete bullshit. According to his gimmick, money is an indicator of moral purity, not a means of exchange enabled by society. You need to drunkpost less. Or more, so you skip directly into "gently caress it".
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Apr 6, 2016 10:48
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Cerebral Bore posted:The one that Ligur linked that, once again, literally says the opposite of what he thinks it does. Ligur is busy defending Finland against the terror of people browner than good people, he doesn't have time to read!
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Apr 13, 2016 11:00
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Geriatric Pirate posted:Yeah man, all those doctors and engineers riding the bus to work while cleaners and unemployed people are stuck driving around. Wow. Literally the opposite of reality. Public transport is so lovely these days that only the people living in inner cities - where the living isn't cheap - can rely on it for work transportation and only if they work in those cities as well. Anywhere more rural you need a car to even get groceries, and if you want a job, you absolutely need a car of your own. And doctors and engineers do take the bus to work, and frequently - they can concentrate on their work and not the driving conditions or parking.
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Apr 17, 2016 17:10
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Nauta posted:"my humanities prof told me you can't be racist if you don't represent the majority of the country you live in even if you judge people based on their race" The word you're looking for is "prejudiced". Using "racist" as a synonym is common, but incorrect. hth.
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Apr 24, 2016 23:38
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Cerebral Bore posted:Solar panels don't rack up cost overruns in the billions of euros either. But I suppose that it's heartening to know that GP still hasn't found an example of corporate malfeasance and corner-cutting that he won't support. Solar panels are environmentally destructive as all hell and have a substantial cost overrun in the form of "eh it isn't even worth operating them, just build and scrap to lose less money". Concentrated solar is a decent idea in places called "not loving Finland". It would probably be cheaper to rent land in Greece and produce the power there and build the infrastructure to power Finland that way than to try solar power this far north. Wind power brings in a decent amount, but you also need base production - where your options are pretty much hydro, nuclear and coal, and we're already using all the hydro we can without converting vast stretches of erämaa into power generating regions. Meanwhile, nuclear works fine if people like Areva or Kokoomus aren't cutting enough corners to turn the project into a perfect sphere. It's the kind of project where you need to commit to doing it right, though, and if there's something the Finnish governments of past 20 years can't do to save their lives, it's to commit to an idea.
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Jun 7, 2016 18:42
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doverhog posted:Not to be totally racist, but literally kuolemantuottamus is literally not murder. Kuolemantuottamus can be translated as "murder" because premeditation is not strictly necessary for it to be called murder.
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Sep 19, 2016 18:24
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doverhog posted:In Finnish oikeuskäytäntö no one is charged with murder if they knock someone over and they hit their head. Blame eduskunta and the courts for that one. They're not charged with murder anyway, because the name of the crime is in Finnish, and "kuolemantuottamus", "tappo" and "murha" all can translate to "murder". The nazi scum intended to kick the victim, kicked the victim, and the victim died as a result of the kick. It's murder.
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Sep 19, 2016 20:14
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Double Bill posted:Was that a joke, because murder is a pretty clearly defined word and concept in every language. Manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter are not it. If there was no proven intent to kill it's involuntary manslaughter, this isn't really up for debate or a grey area of any kind. The proven intent to kill isn't required for the concept of "murder"; merely willfully doing an action that is likely to result in death of someone else. Legally, most jurisdictions require both premeditation and deliberation, but the definition of the word doesn't necessarily include it. I'm just being turbo-pedantic because doverhog's post was not only pedantic, it was also wrong.
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Sep 19, 2016 20:29
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punakone posted:Honestly I am a bit scared not only of the increasing violence but also from the seeming calling of dismantling of the oikeuskäytäntö, not even nazis are worth abandoning it That's fair enough - but we already have laws against fascist organizations and behavior that presents a danger to society, and these fuckheads fall under both - and the people who want lynchings would probably be fine if our laws to keep society peaceful were working. But clearly they aren't. I'd link the tone Hitler image here, but I fear it's actually too appropriate.
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Sep 19, 2016 21:36
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punakone posted:Lock em all up under the appropriate laws i say. Just sayin' the people calling for lynchings are probably also asking why they aren't already locked the gently caress up, and wouldn't want anyone to be lynched if they were. Fear makes you look for quick and dirty solutions.
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Sep 19, 2016 21:40
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uncop posted:The catch is that MMT theorists see fiat money as an infinite resource, so according to them a job that consumes no more real resources (including what the worker consumes using their pay) than it creates real resources is cost-neutral as far as public economy is concerned (meaning that printing the money will not cause inflation). So according to the theory, the job guarantee, making the unemployed somewhat productive, allows for much higher payments than a basic income would before causing an inflation risk. The huge amounts of money the scheme costs to the state can be written off since fiat money is no more real than WoW gold and only the supply&demand of real resources determines inflation. The other catch, of course, being that taking care of an unemployed chunk of population is expensive, and the government would need firing squads to fire unproductive citizens which would be necessary for the economy to work according to free market rules. The employer of last resort system wouldn't have to even be resource-neutral, just cheaper than taking care of said people otherwise.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:33
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Rappaport posted:Well, you don't drive with your license, now do you! Though where they'd gotten a car from is another question. You drive with your hands and feet. Therefore, we should cut off the hands and feet of refugees.
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Oct 10, 2016 21:32
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Täälläpä 0%. 6 pistettä. Ihan rehellisesti vastaamalla. Ei kannattais olla köyhä ja sairas. Siitäpä suurin osa.
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Oct 30, 2016 21:16
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SnowblindFatal posted:IMO jokainen päivä pitäisi aloittaa Ei elämästä selviä hengissä -kuuntelulla I prefer Eletään Vaan Vaikka Piruuttaan.
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Nov 6, 2016 23:43
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Fushigi Yuugi fansub posted:i'm just melting down, that's all Well as much is clear. You're the person Ligur agrees with. That probably should fill you with shame.
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Nov 15, 2016 18:07
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Geriatric Pirate posted:We don't have enough money to pay people just for existing (or more accurately, to pay them what they seem to want to be paid) You're right, we don't. Which is why it's so inconvenient the disabled, unemployed and retired don't just vanish when they're not needed, and instead continue needing food and healthcare.
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Nov 28, 2016 02:17
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endlessmonotony posted:You're right, we don't. And at the same time it's so inconvenient we could use way more labor, for, say, food production, care of the elderly, cleaning public spaces and maintaining/building infrastructure - for example, there's now been a seven-year backlog of new light traffic routes that need to be constructed near major cities. And we have plenty of people without work. I bet the solution is to subsidize employers for corporations in ways such as rent support so that Finland is a more attractive investment target for foreign investments, which we can tax and then when we're done paying for fancy buffets for the executives and the politicians who made this miracle happen we can use the remaining money to pay for the rent support and maybe even have some left over for the road-building. And the food problem is solved by importing it from the cheapest bidder. Capitalism works!
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Nov 28, 2016 02:25
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endlessmonotony posted:And at the same time it's so inconvenient we could use way more labor, for, say, food production, care of the elderly, cleaning public spaces and maintaining/building infrastructure - for example, there's now been a seven-year backlog of new light traffic routes that need to be constructed near major cities. And we have plenty of people without work. And even if the plan doesn't work, we tried our best and must take new debts to solve the increasing public funding crisis from all the rent support and healthcare for the subsidized employees, which leads to us cutting more from the weakest and selling more government property, but we all need to sacrifice, whether it's replacing beef with oatmeal five days a week, as it is for the poor, or our third daily bottle of champagne as it is for the executives and politicians. At the same time we must blame the unemployed for their sheer audacity not to be employed. It's not like there's work to do, except all that infrastructure work we'll get to when we have the tax funds, but first we got to pay off the debts that were accumulated as a result of our brave, brave attempts to fix the problem. It's not like the infrastructure work or the healthcare work or even the food production would lower costs in the long run, even if all available data clearly shows it would. It's cheaper to keep people unemployed and in the soup line.
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Nov 28, 2016 02:30
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uncop posted:Tbf I don't think more than a third of that 3% is actually incapable of productive work, they're merely not currently competitive at skills that are needed. It would not be that difficult to design a job that could accommodate for example someone with moderate depression, but depressed people are unreliable & look bad so the free market won't do it until it runs out of easier people to employ. I'm pretty sure we used to have jobs for people like that until we decided they should rather stew in unemployment until they get accepted for a pension. Same with old people whose professions ceased to exist. Also y'know companies like a group of unemployed people so they can drive wages down. This creates externalities such as long-term unemployed, increased benefit use (see rent assistance) and people who need to use unemployment funds to keep alive... ... but these externalities are paid for by the state and not the companies because they're indeed externalities. The Free Market optimizing for best solution for the state and not the companies only applies if there's no information or power discrepancies. As it is, if you get caught in the machinery, you get ground up. 
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Nov 28, 2016 21:13
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Geriatric Pirate posted:You guys all freaked out about Foreign Minister Soini and so far he's been one of the less controversial ministers This doesn't make Soini good.
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Jan 23, 2017 06:00
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Nenonen posted:that's racist Finnit.
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Feb 10, 2017 18:45
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Jerry Cotton posted:You mean more? I don't know how he'd feel more sympathetic towards racist. I think it's just "[thing] makes me feel sympathetic toward racists" where you can mad libs in anything and it's still true as far as he's concerned.
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Mar 7, 2017 07:58
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HUMAN FISH posted:lmao The tram's something that should have been done fifty years ago. The traffic in the city center is a loving nightmare as it is and it's only been growing worse. Building new road for buses is both a royal bitch and you can't time buses nearly as tightly as trams to deal with bottlenecks. It's the Obamacare of Tampere - it's a vast improvement over the previous system, it just looks awful because it's a half-assed compromise in order to get past the opposition. It tells a lot that the majority of the voices against it are the ones who neither use public transport nor drive their own cars to the center unless they have to.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:36
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endlessmonotony posted:The tram's something that should have been done fifty years ago. The traffic in the city center is a loving nightmare as it is and it's only been growing worse. Building new road for buses is both a royal bitch and you can't time buses nearly as tightly as trams to deal with bottlenecks. It's the Obamacare of Tampere - it's a vast improvement over the previous system, it just looks awful because it's a half-assed compromise in order to get past the opposition. I mean the obvious solution is to turn the entire city center into a giant parking lot and abandon the idea of having people enjoy spending their time anywhere even close, but since there's no political will for that, the compromise is to have trams instead of buses deal with the traffic at the choke points between Pispala and Kaleva and then connect from there with buses. The ultimate endpoints of Lielahti and Hervanta are just because that's where the bulk of people are.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:53
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Geriatric Pirate posted:There's nothing wrong with foundations and private individuals pricing these things under market rates because the taxpayer doesn't lose out. If foundations want to favor certain groups (students, Swedes etc) that's up to them, someone gave them money for that purpose. But the purpose of our city government isn't to favor people who know how to game the housing lottery. Frankly this gimmick is getting old. We get it, poor people should suffer and die. That's literally the only thing you're consistent about. Just repeating the same post in different words is however profoundly lovely posting.
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Mar 19, 2017 17:03
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Geriatric Pirate posted:Just because you blindly follow the LA no matter how dumb or anti-poor they are doesn't change the substance of the argument. There's no substance to your argument unless you accept the premise that this theoretical free market is more important than people not going homeless. It isn't a real free market because of capital imbalance, because of cost of entry, because of incomplete knowledge and oh because people need to eat. You have no argument. You think poor people should suffer because you're hosed in the head, and literally everything else I've ever seen you write is just after-the-fact justifications.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:49
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uncop posted:First of all, "efficiency" in economics is an academic term that is often used by neoclassicals in a misguiding way that makes it easy to attribute meaning to it that it does not have. A market will allocate resources efficiently, for a certain definition of efficiency. For example, international agricultural markets will not allocate food efficiently to people who are hungry, they will allocate it efficiently to people who want to and have resources to pay for it. So, for every market, we have to check whether the market definition of efficiency is the same as our societal definition of efficiency, and whether there's a cost in maximizing that value that actually makes it harder to maximize values we want to maximize. Nor will a market necessarily maximize for the efficiency of other markets that depend on the costs that market imposes on them. For example, labor costs depend on the costs of living labor faces, which is why Germany's housing policy creates cheap labor whereas American financialized housing policy creates the opposite in every growth center of theirs. Gonna say, I was considering writing roughly this post, but I found myself too lazy to, given all the good it's likely to do. I'd also note that in a situation like ours people have way too little in the way of spare resources to actually facilitate them taking the kind of risks that elevate people from "wage slave" to "innovative pioneer" and thus our situation is inferior to even just straight up housing lottery, nevermind a sane system where the local government aims for a 0.1% vacancy and keeps building efficient buildings until that's met. If the government just restricts themselves to small, efficient apartments, it's both much more efficient from their viewpoint and doesn't cause unnecessary harm to the private side - people with substantial spare resources tend to spend some of them onto making their living more comfortable and spacious.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:02
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Geriatric Pirate posted:Umm... you're going to have to define what you think "markets work" means. Economics is the study of infinite wants and scarce resources, you can't just assume a lack of scarcity. Anyway, as it stands, Finland has more housing than people want but this does not change the fact that Central Helsinki (+ some other areas) real estate is about as built up as it can get. So now the market allocates it to people who want to pay for it, which is what markets are meant to do. I don't see how government ownership solves the "Central Helsinki" problem in any way. Economics is the study of infinite wants and scarce resources if you've got extremely bizarre ideas of how economics and the world in general works. There isn't an infinite demand for apartments in the Helsinki region. There isn't an infinite demand for anything, because there comes a point where markets saturate. If you think that even remotely applies in any branch of economics, it might explain a bit about your really dumb posting.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:03
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Geriatric Pirate posted:What an insightful post from the guy who wants Juche in Finland. Clearly shows a high level of understanding. Might want to try insults that aren't easily discovered as faulty by anyone who cares (which I freely admit is nobody). The problem here is that not only is your post(ing) poo poo, so is the thinking behind it. The basics of economics won't get you far when you add in problems such as "nobody has perfect knowledge" and "individual good and common good aren't the same" and "people aren't perfectly rational". And a few dozen other factors that come into play when dealing with something as complex as city planning. I mean I could go into more detail. But either you believe the poo poo you post or you're just super committed to a gimmick, and either way any significant effort seems pointless.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:00
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Geriatric Pirate posted:http://chrisauld.com/ (scroll down to 18 SIGNS YOU’RE READING BAD CRITICISM OF ECONOMICS) Whoa what a link. But you forget, I'm not criticizing economics, I'm criticizing your posting which relies on a very cursory reading on economics, and which has been again and again proven insufficient by actual economists. You twist and turn the economics until it says what you want it to say with no regard for how the world works nor how economics as a science (generally) works. Also you seem to believe we want efficiency in the economic sense out of the system. Meanwhile, given that we're desiring neither with efficiency nor allocation based on wants, but rather least suffering and most functional society, we can handle quite a lot of inefficiency, though not as much as the current system has. The current system would be beaten by a lottery because it is a bunch of individual actors unable to predict the consequences of the actions of other actors and choosing to take no action over risky but overall profitable action. People don't have infinite time and do quite often cash out before attaining maximum profit. You keep loving this up because your "understanding" doesn't allow for enough unknown variables to actually replicate real-world conditions. Arhinmäki's plan would work despite not being the most efficient plan because the city has multiple ways to benefit and some benefit is better than nothing, which is what happens when you discard all plans that aren't optimally efficient.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:06
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Rexroom posted:Finally, our long national nightmare is beginning to end. It's a good idea to drop it. We lose more in the single spring day than we gain all year from the loving hassle, and statistics back me up on that.
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Mar 28, 2017 04:54
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