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co199
Oct 28, 2009

I AM A LOUSY FUCKING COMPUTER JANITOR WHO DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CYBER COMPUTER HACKER SHIT.

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO MY FUCKING AWFUL OPINIONS AS I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.
To expand on the Practical Malware Analysis front, this popped up on github the other day: https://github.com/RPISEC/Malware

quote:

About the Course

The Practical Malware Analysis (PMA) book is where many RPISEC members and alumn started. The book reads very well, is full of information, and the lab walkthroughs in the back are invaluable. We didn't want to re-invent the wheel so we structured most of the class around the book. Students were expected to have read the relevant PMA book chapters before class, allowing us to spend much more class time demonstrating skills and techniques and walking through hands-on examples with the students.

Syllabus: http://security.cs.rpi.edu/courses/malware-fall2015/Syllabus.pdf

Note: Most of the samples used in this course are malicious in nature, treat them carefully!

To help protect people from accidentaly running samples on an important machine, and to prevent anti-malware suites from blocking the course material, all of the samples are compressed and encrypted with a password of 'infected'.
Course Abstract

With the increased use of the Internet and prevalence of computing systems in critical infrastructure, technology is undoubtedly a vital part of modern daily life. Unfortunately, the increasingly networked nature of the modern world has also enabled the spread of malicious software, or “malware”, ranging from annoying adware to advanced nation-state sponsored cyber-weaponry. As a result, the ability to detect, analyze, understand, control, and eradicate malware is an increasingly important issue of economic and national security.

This course will introduce students to modern malware analysis techniques through readings and hands-on interactive analysis of real-world samples. After taking this course students will be equipped with the skills to analyze advanced contemporary malware using both static and dynamic analysis.

Prerequisite Knowledge

This course carried a prereq of Computer Organization - CSCI 2500 at RPI. Computer Organization is RPI's basic computer architecture course that teaches things like C, MIPS assembly, x86 assembly, Datapaths, CPU Pipelining, CPU Caching, Memory Mapping, etc.

Our expected demographic for Malware Analysis was students with zero reverse engineering experience. That said, to be able to take this course you will probably need at least the following skills.

Working knowledge of C/C++
Any assembly level experience

Might be a worthwhile place to start if you have some interest in reversing.

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co199
Oct 28, 2009

I AM A LOUSY FUCKING COMPUTER JANITOR WHO DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CYBER COMPUTER HACKER SHIT.

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO MY FUCKING AWFUL OPINIONS AS I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

Rufus Ping posted:

If you're running linux without grsec (which renders this unexploitable) you're a bit of a mug imo

Debian even has prebuilt grsec kernels now

I worked with spender, he is a cool and smart guy. Run grsec.

co199
Oct 28, 2009

I AM A LOUSY FUCKING COMPUTER JANITOR WHO DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CYBER COMPUTER HACKER SHIT.

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO MY FUCKING AWFUL OPINIONS AS I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

ReagaNOMNOMicks posted:

I have nerver ever posted ITT or anywhere in SH/SC I think because I'm a mere user but I think I found somthing you guys might like!

From the Panama Papers thread in D&D:


Drupal, Joomla, Wordpress...any time I do a "hacked" web server investigation, it's a 99% chance that it's one of those. Not surprised at all.

co199
Oct 28, 2009

I AM A LOUSY FUCKING COMPUTER JANITOR WHO DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CYBER COMPUTER HACKER SHIT.

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO MY FUCKING AWFUL OPINIONS AS I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

OSI bean dip posted:

We've been using it in a DFIR setting as of late

God yes, Splunk is awesome for log comparison.

co199
Oct 28, 2009

I AM A LOUSY FUCKING COMPUTER JANITOR WHO DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CYBER COMPUTER HACKER SHIT.

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO MY FUCKING AWFUL OPINIONS AS I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

Twerk from Home posted:

You really shouldn't be running any sort of Antivirus product in 2016.

I would qualify this by saying "you shouldn't be running antivirus as a primary line of defense in 2016". There are some use cases for it, but it's better supplemented with additional tools (on endpoints at least).

I can point to a real world example with a customer I just finished working with that had no security software on approximately 1000 endpoints in a healthcare environment, even though they had a standing contract with a major AV vendor. They didn't replace AV with anything, they just didn't have anything on their systems. When they got hit by a 7-year-old worm and came screaming to us, we pointed out that the exact hashes they had would have been picked up by their AV solution and they really had no excuse as to why it hadn't been deployed.

Traditional AV is on life support, but as a last line of defense (e.g. if AV detects something you're already hosed but maybe it might save you a little bit) it's worth having.

EDIT: I should note that there were a lot of internal politics that led to that decision (due to acquisitions and such) but people are literally taking the saying "AV is dead" at face value and running with nothing, in the real world, in 2016. The security industry needs to be careful about what they soapbox.

co199 fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Apr 29, 2016

co199
Oct 28, 2009

I AM A LOUSY FUCKING COMPUTER JANITOR WHO DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CYBER COMPUTER HACKER SHIT.

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO MY FUCKING AWFUL OPINIONS AS I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:

The current use cases for AV are checking a box on audits and providing an entrypoint for everyone else.

7 year old worm? So they weren't keeping systems up to date, don't expect any security software on those machines to have up to date definitions if they were deployed. What services were you offering the client in this case, and how was remediation handled?

It's not worth having and we've been beating the drum on this for over a decade, the highlighted vulnerabilities lately are showing that the situation (as usual) is much worse than anyone considered. The joke is the security software wasn't getting seriously audited as no professional wants it near their machine.

The soapbox you should be more concerned about is a one-stop protection suite for families and small companies around the world that convinces them to hand over money for reduced security. It's been said before but it's going to take at least a worm before anyone stops and takes note of the underlying issue.

The circumstances around this engagement were more complicated than just "oh they weren't running AV lol it would have fixed them". I think we're all aware of the travesty that is the healthcare IT environment, especially concerning legacy applications and operating systems. You're absolutely correct that they weren't keeping systems securely up-to-date and again, it's more than just a case of AV solving the problem - I was simply using it as an example where actually having an AV product deployed would have helped with one aspect of the issue. There are other, better answers (including tools like Carbon Black) for getting visibility into endpoints, and I'm certainly not hopping on the AV dick to say everyone "needs" AV. I agree completely that there are better tools out there - again, not saying AV is a necessity - in this case it would have been better than the nothing they had, even if not the optimal (multiple layer) solution. You obviously have to balance hardware, software and personnel solutions along with actual effective policies internally.

We were deployed in an IR capability, predominantly to identify just what the gently caress was happening as the customer had no visibility and no idea what the gently caress was going on. Our initial reaction was "burn the whole thing to the ground and start again", but unfortunately that wasn't realistic so we actually engaged other teams that had standing relationships with the customer (and SMEs on the tools in their environment) to help with remediation.

co199
Oct 28, 2009

I AM A LOUSY FUCKING COMPUTER JANITOR WHO DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CYBER COMPUTER HACKER SHIT.

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO MY FUCKING AWFUL OPINIONS AS I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

Subjunctive posted:

It's also possible that wearing a seatbelt can kill you by trapping you in a car, but the seatbelt soapbox is still exactly the right one to stand on. You can have a fatal reaction to a vaccine, but you should still get them. The most likely outcome of having AV installed is worse than the most likely outcome of skipping it.

I'm not trying to be an rear end in a top hat here, but can you give me a real-world example of securing an environment of say, 10,000 endpoints (we'll softball it with a mix of XP, 7 and 10, Server2k3,2k8r2 and 2k12) without using AV and without getting laughed out of a boardroom for presenting a cost of $texas?

co199
Oct 28, 2009

I AM A LOUSY FUCKING COMPUTER JANITOR WHO DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CYBER COMPUTER HACKER SHIT.

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO MY FUCKING AWFUL OPINIONS AS I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

Subjunctive posted:

My company has > 10K end-user machines and we don't run AV.

But I'm curious: what would you do that would replace AV but be really expensive?

I wouldn't replace AV, that's the point - I'd use it in conjunction with other tools. You didn't answer the question, you just asked another one.

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co199
Oct 28, 2009

I AM A LOUSY FUCKING COMPUTER JANITOR WHO DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CYBER COMPUTER HACKER SHIT.

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO MY FUCKING AWFUL OPINIONS AS I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

apseudonym posted:

Why do you think using AV makes it cheaper?

Ok, I'm not saying AV makes it cheaper, my question was specifically around securing a large enterprise, without AV, for a "reasonable" price. That's probably too broad of a specification, realistically, but for the sake of conversation we'll let it stand.

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