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Aramoro posted:Because I didn't know and people were all 'just loving google it, I'm not your search engine' I looked it up and the first results seemed to be the International Journal of Transgenderism which has now changed it's name to International Journal of Transgender Health this year. So presumably it became a bad terfy term in the last 3 months that we should all know about. Does the existence of the UNCF mean that calling calling black people "Negroes" is fine? Obviously the word only became bad in the last 3 months, we shouldn't be expected to know.
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Mar 30, 2020 12:36
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Aramoro posted:The main one they were talking about today was some who did a 230 miles round trip to buy some windows off ebay, who had his wife in the boot. The journey was unnecessary, he didn't need the windows, brought him into contact with multiple people and also he had his wife in the boot of the car. Though I guess that bit is unrelated to Corona. are we talking about a hatchback or a sedan, because i know "boot" translates to "trunk"
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Mar 30, 2020 12:36
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cowboy
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https://twitter.com/NWmwaypolice/status/1244274769954066434 "Traffic Offence Report" "Idiots [mentioned] on Social Media", i guess she couldn't fit in the car at the same time as the windows so at least presumably she only had to spend half the drive time in solitary stringless has a new favorite as of 12:44 on Mar 30, 2020 |
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Mar 30, 2020 12:40
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I guess I'm gonna put it this way. If I go to, say, Japan, I'm not going to walk up to people on the street and ask them — even super politely — "hey what do you guys like to be called?" What language should I use when talking to you? What's your deal?" Because they're just people. They're existing, they're going about their lives. I'm the interloper. Maybe if one of them is real nice they might take me aside and give me some education in Japanese culture, but they're under no obligation or expectation to do so. They'd be well within their rights to be annoyed at me and my "why do you people have to be all different??" attitude, as though they're just doing it to spite me. What I'm going to do is lurk on the edges, quietly, and watch and listen, and try to absorb how they interact with each other, and then try to emulate that. If what I observe is at odds with what I've brought in as preconceived notions, well, I'm going to trust my observations and experiences and not the anime I watched or whatever, and I'm going to change what I'm doing. I know even this approach has its problematic elements because it makes me sound like I'm Jane Goodall or some poo poo. But I feel like there is no such thing as a 100% "clean" and "right" way to do a cultural interaction (because that is what we're talking about here I think). There are more bad and less bad ways. And I think the least bad way is about coming into it with the mental framework of being a foreign visitor who isn't particularly welcome (or unwelcome), but can take a few common-sense steps to assimilating without antagonizing anyone while I'm on their turf. e: I'm not gonna get all bent out of shape if they call me "gaijin" either
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Mar 30, 2020 12:43
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Data Graham posted:What I'm going to do is lurk on the edges, quietly, and watch and listen, and try to absorb how they interact with each other, and then try to emulate that.
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Mar 30, 2020 12:46
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Somfin posted:That last sentence is incredibly whiny, by the way. Are you upset about the word "cis" too? No not at all, cis is a good term that I use and everyone should. In the last 5 years 3 of my friends have come out as trans and its a big issue here in Scotland so I do try to be educated about the issues. But even with that I didn't know, so I have to assume other people will not know. I do know now so I won't use the term again.
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Mar 30, 2020 12:59
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Proteus Jones posted:How the gently caress is going out for a drive putting people at risk? Even if you have to top up the car, you never have to interact with a single human being (except maybe WA and NJ) The issue is if you crash, or have a heart attack, or just sprain your ankle you take up resources that aren't available right now. It's not your risk they're concerned about. Plus it's a general deterrent to stop people nipping round to their mate's house and just lying about where they're going.
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Mar 30, 2020 13:03
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MageMage posted:but if someone says "kill all cis people" it's just being ironic. T-man doesn't mean that when she says it because based on what I know from her posts she'd probably get tired after like the 36th kill and would probably need a nap after that. By the time she wakes up, like, 3000 more cis people would be born so it's like... The work would realistically just never end, you know
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Mar 30, 2020 14:20
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 In the censored photo he’s holding a wad of cash to his ear like a phone.
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Mar 30, 2020 14:24
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MageMage posted:but if someone says "kill all cis people" it's just being ironic. maybe cis people should learn to take a joke and lighten up a bit
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Mar 30, 2020 14:53
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A cis person can’t even recognize a joke. This is canon
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Mar 30, 2020 15:06
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e: I'm cis and was trying to make a point and failed so I deleted it which is what most cis folks should do anyway
Mushika has a new favorite as of 15:28 on Mar 30, 2020 |
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Mar 30, 2020 15:19
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CharlestheHammer posted:A cis person can’t even recognize a joke. If this is directed at cis ppl, then you are correct if this was directed towards magemage, well, then something is incorrect with your statement. :X
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Mar 30, 2020 15:26
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Plant MONSTER. posted:If this is directed at cis ppl, then you are correct Not directed at anyone in particular.
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Mar 30, 2020 15:29
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Excuse me Cis people can take a joke. We take everything 
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Mar 30, 2020 15:51
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https://twitter.com/kittynouveau/status/1244359294067380225?s=21
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Mar 30, 2020 15:52
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CharlestheHammer posted:A cis person can’t even recognize a joke. They recognize TWO(2) whole jokes.
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Mar 30, 2020 16:07
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https://twitter.com/adilkakru/status/1244253093824303104
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Mar 30, 2020 16:12
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Good Christ, that is a loving high bar they've gone and come right out of the gate with.
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Mar 30, 2020 16:25
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MageMage posted:"Transgenderism" is not a bad word, nor is it a "terfy" terfs are probably using it an we're just letting them have it. It's not you, some people are "on one" Also gtf with that "on one" business. One because it's dismissive, but mostly for the grocers' quotes quote:It's apparently bad to say "transgenderism" but if someone says "kill all cis people" it's just being ironic.
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Mar 30, 2020 16:26
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Please don't engage with MageMage on anything.
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Mar 30, 2020 16:36
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I get it, "-ism" usually denotes an ideological affiliation, which being transgender is clearly not an ideology. It's also clearly not a choice, as participating in any ideology, for the most part, is. That being said, I had never heard of the word "transgenderism" before this morning, in this thread. I'm sorry it's something that hurts y'all. At least now I'll never use it, even accidentally. The real thought experiment would be turning off your computer and sitting quietly for a few minutes, and then comparing the number of opinions changed while doing that vs. posting in this thread, in which "-ism" stands more for Idiots on Social Media. Usually I lurk my way through the trans dust-ups in this thread, but there was something about this one that seemed unreasonably strident and off-topic. I also don't agree with the poster who kicked the whole thing off by entertaining the role of devil's advocate, but come on y'all. This quarantine has got us all wound up. I don't think anybody on these forums expects our trans posters to unwillingly or unwittingly be ambassadors and educators; that's a role you are equally welcome to play or not at all.
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Mar 30, 2020 16:54
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1000 umbrellas posted:This quarantine has got us all wound up. I don't think anybody on these forums expects our trans posters to unwillingly or unwittingly be ambassadors and educators; that's a role you are equally welcome to play or not at all. It'd really suck if simply being trans and saying "hey, that's not cool to say" frequently ended with people expecting that person to educate them on the entire problem. I'm glad that's not something that people were literally asking for in this thread and that trans posters have been expected to do outside of quarantine.
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Mar 30, 2020 16:58
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Midnight Voyager posted:It'd really suck if simply being trans and saying "hey, that's not cool to say" frequently ended with people expecting that person to educate them on the entire problem. I'm glad that's not something that people were literally asking for in this thread and that trans posters have been expected to do outside of quarantine. That last comment was specifically in regards to a poster who said they are exhausted by being The Explainer. I'm also sorry that is frequently a social expectation that is experienced as a social responsibility, but... Guess what? You don't have to do that on these here forums. Hell, if you don't do it, it's possible, nay, even likely, that someone will step in and do it anyway.
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Mar 30, 2020 17:03
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Maybe instead of insulting someone who's trying to learn about the subject and telling them to just do research themselves when they might not even be sure how to frame the question on Google, you could give them good resources to start? That way you don't have to spend your valuable time educating people and you can ensure that they're not going to have an algorithm give them TERF poo poo!
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Mar 30, 2020 17:05
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Please don't engage with MageMage on anything.
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Mar 30, 2020 17:06
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1000 umbrellas posted:That last comment was specifically in regards to a poster who said they are exhausted by being The Explainer. I'm also sorry that is frequently a social expectation that is experienced as a social responsibility, but... Guess what? You don't have to do that on these here forums. Hell, if you don't do it, it's possible, nay, even likely, that someone will step in and do it anyway. You do realize you just said "nobody" expects them to do that and then immediately admitted it's a frequent social expectation. Somebody does expect them to do that. Nobody HAS to do anything, but societal pressure exists and it sucks. It's like water torture. Also thanks, chitoryu, for immediately being like "Here's how to better educate people, while we're saying people shouldn't have to educate other people!" I'd say it illustrated the point, but this thread is a masterclass in missing points.
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Mar 30, 2020 17:10
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Midnight Voyager posted:Also thanks, chitoryu, for immediately being like "Here's how to better educate people, while we're saying people shouldn't have to educate other people!" I'd say it illustrated the point, but this thread is a masterclass in missing points. So someone asked a question of a group, and the response is "No, it's not my duty to educate you. Do it yourself. Also I'm not going to give you a good starting point for self-research so if you end up with the wrong ideas on Google it's your fault." Have I got that right?
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Mar 30, 2020 17:13
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Just remember: never learn anything and never teach any one anything. That is the only way for this world to work.
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Mar 30, 2020 17:21
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Midnight Voyager posted:You do realize you just said "nobody" expects them to do that and then immediately admitted it's a frequent social expectation. Somebody does expect them to do that. Nobody HAS to do anything, but societal pressure exists and it sucks. It's like water torture. I'm sorry, allow me to clarify what I mean: "Nobody" in this thread or on these forums expects any other poster to be an unwilling participant in this or any discussion. I can't hold a gun to your head and demand that you post for my edification. My admittance that explaining the trans experience is a social expectation, out there in the world, beyond the SA forums, is me hearing you, even through your sarcasm, and trying to incorporate your lived experience into my response. Would you rather I have said "no, no, you're wrong, it's not a social expectation at all, I stand by my original point." Come on. edit: my overarching point is that if posting screenshots of Twitter on a comedy forum prompts you to rip into an explanation of your identity in a way that is starting to feel like water torture, maybe take a break OR take relief in the fact that we don't need you to do that here in order to accept you 
1000 umbrellas has a new favorite as of 17:28 on Mar 30, 2020 |
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Mar 30, 2020 17:22
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chitoryu12 posted:Also I'm not going to give you a good starting point for self-research so if you end up with the wrong ideas on Google it's your fault." Have I got that right? I'd believe this argument if I also saw it in connection with literally anything else. 1000 umbrellas posted:LOL Google "is Right to Work good" No, I will not be doing that, because my point is you all know how to self educate and cut through bullshit except conveniently not now. Nastyman has a new favorite as of 18:03 on Mar 30, 2020 |
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Mar 30, 2020 17:32
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it wasn't a twitter screenshot, it was someone ITT posting elaborate theorycraft on the secret true nature of trans. people were very reasonably like "don't do that" and then every greasy transphobe left on these dead gay forums took turns explaining why actually it's important to educate people who gainsay your lived experience, and after that it's a big hazy mess of awful closeted bigotry and justified-but-fruitless indignation "if we're upsetting you, you could just leave, honey " is a moderation standard with a very negative track record, if you hadn't noticed
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Mar 30, 2020 17:35
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Nastyman posted:I'd believe this argument if I also saw it in connection with literally anything else. LOL Google "is Right to Work good" edit: LordSaturn posted:"if we're upsetting you, you could just leave, honey Also not what I said, but if y'all wanna argue you can do it all day without me.
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Mar 30, 2020 17:37
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LordSaturn posted:it wasn't a twitter screenshot, it was someone ITT posting elaborate theorycraft on the secret true nature of trans. people were very reasonably like "don't do that" and then every greasy transphobe left on these dead gay forums took turns explaining why actually it's important to educate people who gainsay your lived experience, and after that it's a big hazy mess of awful closeted bigotry and justified-but-fruitless indignation what bothers me is that it wasn't just a cascade of "no, gently caress off", plenty of people gave answers, terse or no, including me. if trans folks can live in existential fear cis folks can deal with a little snark while still ultimately being educated!
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Mar 30, 2020 17:40
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chitoryu12 posted:Maybe instead of insulting someone who's trying to learn about the subject and telling them to just do research themselves when they might not even be sure how to frame the question on Google, you could give them good resources to start? That way you don't have to spend your valuable time educating people and you can ensure that they're not going to have an algorithm give them TERF poo poo! The trouble is that it’s often impossible to distinguish someone asking questions in good faith from someone who is sealioning. The tactic of the latter is literally to “just ask questions” until you flip out
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Mar 30, 2020 17:41
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Just because I was curious, I typed "would transgender people exist if there were no gender roles" into Google to see what a self-educating person would find. One of the top results is a loving Quillette article. This is why I suggested just knowing a good starting point to tell people to read: if they do it themselves, they're probably going to get right-wing or TERF poo poo thrown at them.
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Mar 30, 2020 17:42
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chitoryu12 posted:Just because I was curious, I typed "would transgender people exist if there were no gender roles" into Google to see what a self-educating person would find. One of the top results is a loving Quillette article. maybe the dichotomy you present is a false one and instead of making GBS threads up this thread with their questions "allies" can take a quote of what made them think of their topic of discussion to a more appropriate thread for such a discussion Catgirl Al Capone has a new favorite as of 17:47 on Mar 30, 2020 |
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Mar 30, 2020 17:45
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1000 umbrellas posted:Also not what I said, but if y'all wanna argue you can do it all day without me. "I'ma call you a liar, but that doesn't count as arguing back, sweetie " gently caress alongCYBEReris posted:what bothers me is that it wasn't just a cascade of "no, gently caress off", plenty of people gave answers, terse or no, including me. if trans folks can live in existential fear cis folks can deal with a little snark while still ultimately being educated! also extremely fair. most of the answers were good, but the usual forums republican uncles decided to come and complain that their boots weren't being polished enough. if these forums are going to be dead and gay then by god they had better start living up to that
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Mar 30, 2020 17:46
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1000 umbrellas posted:
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Mar 30, 2020 17:46
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The libs are really destroying the one and only thing they had going for them https://twitter.com/LeftistWonk/status/1244661156989591554?s=19
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