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coe 4 is kind of one of those games where you smash a bunch of action figures together and see what happens, so you don't exactly need an encyclopedic knowledge of things.
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Sep 2, 2016 06:58
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This thread and the stuff that got posted in the RL thread makes this game sound pretty interesting. Too bad I just missed the awesome sale. Oh well, just toss it onto the wishlist. Some amusing stories in here btw.
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Sep 2, 2016 06:59
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Tollymain posted:i just quit out of a game where i spawned in the arctic next to three ancient forests and a brigand nest and banged my head against that wall until i saw an army to the south of roughly 300 units and said "gently caress this i'm out" Despite what I've read elsewhere, I have a vague feeling that gems are much more generous in the Dark Ages than in other eras. Either going onto another country or ditching them is good. Pale Ones are a mixed bag. Tier 2 rituals are good 80+ gems, and that's before the extortionate emerald cost. That's why I've focused more heavily on using them as battlemages experimentally this game. It's honestly a bit simpler to get a necro to the really fancy stuff. I started the current game on a larger than usual map with a few more AIs mixed in, hopefully giving myself longer to settle in and more opponents to fight among themselves. The tier one summons, on the other hand, are pretty potent. Rubys give you a handful of lesser fire elementals per cast. They're ethereal, levitating, melee range (1-7 dam), and don't heal. If they're not uselessly hiding behind a wall of cavern guards, they're pretty potent, and not that difficult to stockpile 40+ of them in an army to bumrush barbarians or barons with. Be careful taking them over frozen rivers if you don't want them to drown, of course. And they set trees on fire, of course. Diamonds give you 1 penumbral or 1 cavern wight at a time. They're good, but they come in at a trickle in tier 1. But it's not like you have any other use for diamonds till tier 2. Cavern Wights are surprisingly not mindless, but they have pretty solid MR and morale regardless. They even heal naturally. They're basically a cavern guard with twice the health, and 20% more damage potential even before you account for the fac that they're no longer missing a fifth of all their attacks. They'll not show up in numbers to win you a war, but you can certainly amass enough to use in a critical battle or two. These guys actually like to take up spots in the front line, so they play well with your normal troops. Penumbrals don't have amazing damage potential, but they are ethereal with magical life draining attacks, and naturally healing. I'm sure you can think of several good ways to use them. They do tend to hide behind cavern guards, so they excel in smaller battles and indie town battles where hurler siege is a joke on account of not being target rich enough. Sapphires and Lesser olm are amazing, with their range 10 paralyzing mindblast. The speed's a little slow, but you have no trouble mixing them into grand battles later on, no matter how thick your front line is. In the Dark Ages, I use them just as much in the giant fights, as well as a pair helping to kill the damned roaming animals like manticores and chimeras or trolls defending mines. Eventually you'll have enough, I suppose. Sadly, I sometimes had to stop summoning them. Scry is amazingly good for tracking an army to hunt and kill, or checking for weakly defended cities. Lesser Deep Summoning, Acquiring New Masteries, and Awaken Guardians are all a mess. On account of there never being even a fifth as many emeralds as you need. If you haven't found a temple for Oracles, seriously consider overbuying emeralds. Sometimes it may even be cheaper to buy new readers than gamble on lesser mastery. Awakened Guardians cost an extortionate 20 emeralds for a map-stationary unit, though you get several per cast. Unlike Agartha of Dominions, they'll just never heal unless you've got that earth regen spell. Now, you do get a tier 2 statue spellcaster, but they're stationery, and not a commander. No using them to circumvent a temple shortage. By the way, are there any cheat mods around so I can experiment with these ridiculously expensive rituals? Here's the price of the tier 2 rituals, excluding mastery: Olm Conclave: 120 Sapphires; Summoning of the Dead, Lava Summoning, Deep Earth Summoning, Awaken Marble Oracle: 80.
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Sep 2, 2016 07:01
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Necro armies I think need to be balanced really carefully. All your main damage is coming from the backline and bane fires. You gotta have just a small line of soulless or something that can take alot of damage. Nothing in the undead army outside of summons has an any kind of useful melee attack so if the backline isnt in the action no damage is being done. E: Haha i dunno how they did it but the dwarves have tunneled to agartha and are now coming back to the surface Isaac fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Sep 2, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 07:08
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 I was confused how one abom was eating a whole barbarian army very slowly. Then I checked the HP. The unit text for the Abomination also says something about leaving it on an old battlefield or graveyard. Has anyone tried this?
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Sep 2, 2016 07:31
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Yeah if you just indiscriminately raise dead you can end up with 5+ rows of melee guys in the late game and they will all die when you attack the fort because there aren't any mages/archers in range to hit the enemy battlements. 3 rows is kind of unavoidable though since some of the summons are 3x3. I didn't get to play with any tier 3 summons but the tier 2 ones include the wonderful dracoliches (which breathe for damage and decay in a decent area) and the ok-i-guess abominations (which can instakill one thing per fight with their digestion attack but otherwise seem to have cruddy damage). e: ^^^^ Leaving it on the site of a battle lets it eat corpses, which just gives it more hp. It can only eat 3 per turn, but I guess if you leave it in a big citadel you captured from the enemy it can eventually get huge. I'm pretty sure this uses the same "invisible dead guys that you can't see" mechanic as the raise dead spell etc. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Sep 2, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 07:35
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I liked this game before it was cool.
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Sep 2, 2016 07:42
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:I liked this game before it was cool. I was going to make a new thread but out of respect for your original thread i bumped it. Living boulders are my new favourite unit and they just killed all my drang mages
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Sep 2, 2016 08:09
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I summoned two different lords of Hell and the three of us are just clowning around, dunking on the troll king's bitch rear end, hi-fiving as we blast his mother's army into cinders. #JustDemonLordThings
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Sep 2, 2016 09:04
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I just had a demilich kill 90 barbarians solo holy heck
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Sep 2, 2016 13:31
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Isaac posted:E: Haha i dunno how they did it but the dwarves have tunneled to agartha and are now coming back to the surface Okay I'm playing necromancer next, being able to swap an enemy capital into Hades and then use it as a staging point to conquer Hades sounds loving rad. I also keep meaning to try Senator so I can become  THE EMPEROR and conquer the world. Does conquering a haunted capitol do anything special in particular, or should I not choose Fallen Empire as my era (or gamble on trying to conquer Hell and become the Dark God-Emperor)?
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Sep 2, 2016 14:21
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Dark Emprah is Hades or Hell cap. I think Fallen is still normal Emps.
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Sep 2, 2016 16:11
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amuayse posted:Dark Emprah is Hades or Hell cap. I think Fallen is still normal Emps. Okay. So if I end up in Fallen Empire, I can still conquer the haunted capitol to coronate myself? Good to know. I want to try a multiplayer game with a Senator+Necromancer team sometime. Conquer Hades and Hell together, reign jointly in abyssal glory. e: or Senator + Pale Ones. Just loving dig a big goddamn hole for your troops to march into and conquer poo poo.
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Sep 2, 2016 16:46
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I am trying to like this game, but I keep bouncing off of it. Playing the default map settings (small, random leaders, 3 factions), and it seems like the game basically consists of slowly moving units around the map, having their numbers get whittled down by randoms while claiming sites to improve your glacially slow income, eventually buying units that you then have to slowly march across the map to reinforce the whittled units, repeat until you get bored and quit. What am I missing? How do I make the turn-to-turn actions more interesting? It feels like on any given turn practically nothing of consequence happens, but they still take a long time to resolve as I have to give orders to each individual commander, probably sit through a battle (which still takes some time even if you auto-resolve), and then wait for the other factions to move. And I'm not really finding much of any larger strategy aside from "build up enough of your faction-specific resource to use the higher-tier special powers so you can buy superunits". Which also takes forever because faction-specific resources seem to be loving rare (or else the spells that use them are loving expensive). Plus I always seem to spawn in either the desert or tundra no matter what faction I get. 
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Sep 2, 2016 17:00
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as far as i can tell, it's basically a game about running into a bunch of weird units and looking and going "wow, look at all these weird spells and rituals and effects!" if that's not exciting to you then you're probably out of luck.
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Sep 2, 2016 17:03
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I am trying to like this game, but I keep bouncing off of it. Playing the default map settings (small, random leaders, 3 factions), and it seems like the game basically consists of slowly moving units around the map, having their numbers get whittled down by randoms while claiming sites to improve your glacially slow income, eventually buying units that you then have to slowly march across the map to reinforce the whittled units, repeat until you get bored and quit. What am I missing? How do I make the turn-to-turn actions more interesting? It feels like on any given turn practically nothing of consequence happens, but they still take a long time to resolve as I have to give orders to each individual commander, probably sit through a battle (which still takes some time even if you auto-resolve), and then wait for the other factions to move. And I'm not really finding much of any larger strategy aside from "build up enough of your faction-specific resource to use the higher-tier special powers so you can buy superunits". Which also takes forever because faction-specific resources seem to be loving rare (or else the spells that use them are loving expensive). Large, 8 AIs. Part of the slowness is coming from your setup, I have no idea why it is the default.
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Sep 2, 2016 17:13
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I play on the default size of map but with like four or five AIs instead of just two
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Sep 2, 2016 17:31
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Yeah cranking up the number of AIs helps a bit. Unfortunately the early game is rather slow regardless.
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Sep 2, 2016 17:53
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The Homeland Defense mod helps with that a bit. The starting defenses it gives you aren't really enough to protect against a proper army but they'll keep your citadel from being swiped out from under you by like, deer, or bandits, or whatever. Or surprise fishmen out of the ocean like one of my attempts at Senator  The early game goes a little faster when you can afford to take your whole starting army with you to conquer poo poo in the area immediately around your starting point instead of having to leave a bunch of archers behind.
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Sep 2, 2016 18:22
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I have found playing at the Empire Age to be the most fun for most classes. Tons of villages, towns, ports and cities full of gold, sacrifices and trade for getting whatever other resources you need to quickly get an economy and troop production going.
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Sep 2, 2016 20:11
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I just did a game as a warlock while my internet was down. My starting guy turned out to be earth, and it turns out Kings of Earth can just kinda solo anything the other factions could throw at me. Queens of Elemental Air are less effective.
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Sep 2, 2016 20:13
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PleasingFungus posted:as far as i can tell, it's basically a game about running into a bunch of weird units and looking and going "wow, look at all these weird spells and rituals and effects!" if that's not exciting to you then you're probably out of luck. Yeah, I just mind controlled the Troll King and made him beat his own mother to death when I caught him conquering my villages. The game is definitely more about the absurd situations it creates than incredibly deep gameplay.
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Sep 2, 2016 20:51
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lol just lol if you don't just tunnel so far into the earth with a cave crawler that it unleashes demons from hell on the surface of the world.
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Sep 2, 2016 20:59
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Tried a few warlock games, been really tough to get going, unless there's some trick I don't understand it seems like you kind of have to get lucky with being able to find gems of the right type, (and hope they're not too well defended,) they seem a lot harder to come by than sacrifices. High Priestess is much easier to start, you just take a few villages and then go out into the desert and start summoning all kinds of powerful nonsense
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Sep 2, 2016 21:09
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SpruceZeus posted:Tried a few warlock games, been really tough to get going, unless there's some trick I don't understand it seems like you kind of have to get lucky with being able to find gems of the right type, (and hope they're not too well defended,) they seem a lot harder to come by than sacrifices. Yeah you've pretty much gotta hold on by using your human troops until you can start doing greater summonings. Archer spam with a decent front line and caster support can punch through pretty much any independents. Fortunately it only takes a few greater summoning rituals to have a pretty powerful core of hard-to-kill elemental casters. You can kind of get around the luck factor using trade, too.
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Sep 2, 2016 21:13
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ohhh okay yeah if i could get some trade somehow, that would help alot. but aside from that, i guess i really do just gotta sit around until i can summon a champion, instead of wasting my time on the small fry? okay i'll try again and give that a shot e: this really amused me, never seen a labyrinth before. 9AP, lol 
SpruceZeus fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Sep 2, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 21:24
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Ah, a little further clarification on the Pale Ones. Strength of the Earth is only a level 2 spell. Burst 5 spell, grants regen and strength +2. Pretty handy. As well, all Oracles get a 25% discount on their secondary element. So, an Oracle of the Dead can cast a tier 2 summons for 60 gems instead of 80. One thing I'm trying to figure out, however: are defensive walls beneficial or detrimental to the Pale Ones? P.S. I found the mythical sealed chamber. Wondering whether to fight off the barbarians, or tackle this legendary site. I'm sure it would never backfire... LordSloth fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Sep 2, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 21:37
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LordSloth posted:Ah, a little further clarification on the Pale Ones. My gut feeling is that for regular Pale Ones, defensive walls are a detriment but not a small enough one to matter given the relative value of most sites with defensive walls. The detriment gets bigger with more ancients while the benefit gets bigger with more mages and olms, with elementals and (pen)umbrals not giving a poo poo either way.
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Sep 2, 2016 21:47
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I've been playing this game for a while, before I even noticed there was a thread for it. Was kind of a nice surprise. I'm having trouble going anything but necromancers though. I just really enjoy the theme. (A couple of the music tracks are really awesome for it.) A grim crusade across the fallen empire, purging the taint of demon and outsider alike as they try to stake their claim on the broken corpse of the human majesty. A tide of dead to drive back the foes to all life.
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Sep 2, 2016 22:40
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LordSloth posted:One thing I'm trying to figure out, however: are defensive walls beneficial or detrimental to the Pale Ones? Well, I usually try to fight AI Pale Ones when they're pinned behind walls so that they can't deploy their whole line against my whole line. If you've got a way to fight back and aren't facing a ranged-heavy enemy, though, they're probably at least not detrimental. SpruceZeus posted:ohhh okay yeah if i could get some trade somehow, that would help alot. but aside from that, i guess i really do just gotta sit around until i can summon a champion, instead of wasting my time on the small fry? okay i'll try again and give that a shot Don't bother with champions, they aren't very good. You want Greater <Element> Summoning, which gets you like 2-5 of either a hard-to-kill basic caster elemental or a powerful front-liner. All of the casters are good. Salamanders are very bad and Winter Wolves just kind of adequate, but Stone Drakes and Thunderbirds are rad. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Sep 2, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 23:31
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i finally managed to get a couple tier 2 warlock summons going and then got impatient, blundered into an army that was just a little too strong, and died. gonna give it a rest for now and play some high priestess or something to relax who needs to go hunting for gems anyway, all you really need is MORE BLOOD 
SpruceZeus fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Sep 2, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 23:31
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I'm going to shill for Senators because they're real cool. Ever imagine a husband and wife marching to the battlefield to fight against the army of hell, the undeads, otherworldly horrors, constructs, elementals, celestial beings, deep sea creatures, and mythical beasts, and winning? Well you can as the Senator, but you gotta play in an era where the capital exists
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Sep 2, 2016 23:36
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Jazerus posted:Don't bother with champions, they aren't very good. You want Greater <Element> Summoning, which gets you like 2-5 of either a hard-to-kill basic caster elemental or a powerful front-liner. All of the casters are good. Salamanders are very bad and Winter Wolves just kind of adequate, but Stone Drakes and Thunderbirds are rad. that's what i meant, yeah, when i finally started to get underway a little i ended up with like four fire elementals and a bunch of those salamanders... i thought the salamanders seemed a bit poo poo. just my luck i'd get them twice in a row, i guess. whyyyy are gems so hard to fiiiiiind... e: ^^^that sounds kinda rad, been meaning to give the senator a proper try sometime now that i have a better idea of what i'm doing ee: vvv Nope it didnt occur to me at all, and then i died somewhere else. figures thered be something nasty in there though. every time i think ive found some hidden secret it always turns out to secretly be a terrible trap that gets me hunted by horrors or something instead of a neat reward
SpruceZeus fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Sep 2, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 23:44
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SpruceZeus posted:
Did you go in? I got a very nasty suprise in the only labrynth ive found. E: I won my necro/empire game last night and I think ive done everything there is to do as necro now. I still want another game just for more plane swapping fun. The demilich is good but hes kind of disapointing in that he still goes insane. But even having him 1/5 turns is pretty powerful.
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Sep 2, 2016 23:47
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I'm playing Necromancers in a Fallen Empire game now and it owns. I started literally adjacent to the haunted capitoleum  Needless to say, my starting apprentice has like 90 insanity and just kinda lives there now.I used Raise Legion on an Old Battlefield and got a rad shade army led by a mage and a general, both also shades, who summon additional shades in battle. I immediately had them plane shift to Hades and conquer a few ghost towns for gold income, since I'm rolling in Hands but have almost no money. My nearest neighbours are Hoburgs, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how their gigantic stack of poo poo units stands up to my gigantic stack of poo poo units plus a dracolich and a pile of bane fire archers.
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Sep 3, 2016 00:36
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alright. so I've now got two rows of se'ir, gibbor, and scorpion beasts, two shedim, a lammashta with a flaming morningstar, eight (!!!) lilots, and a bunch of random crap the lilots have charmed for me. boy do i ever love lilots. 
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Sep 3, 2016 01:00
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I personally like how cheap and tanky Priestess's summons are in comparison to the gambling nature of other sacrifice nations.
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Sep 3, 2016 01:14
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Angry Diplomat posted:I'm playing Necromancers in a Fallen Empire game now and it owns. I started literally adjacent to the haunted capitoleum I never got a chance to try Raise Legion, because I made an incredibly stupid mistake by casting Greater Lichcraft on my only high-level necro. I tried teleporting him to an old battlefield, but apparently they don't count as "having corpses" for the purpose of Lichgate. amuayse posted:I personally like how cheap and tanky Priestess's summons are in comparison to the gambling nature of other sacrifice nations. I should try Priestess next time. Summons turning on me was definitely the most irritating aspect of playing
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Sep 3, 2016 01:17
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Im gonna make a necro turorial/guide later today. Whats the preferred way to do this in 2016? FRAPs? I coukd do it in screenshots also.
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Sep 3, 2016 01:26
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Priestess is fun. You can summon an immortal sun god on top of a mountain that stops snow and turns a quarter of the map into desert.
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Sep 3, 2016 01:28
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