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Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

CPColin posted:

Our sprints would normally end tomorrow (except for my team, because we're on Kanban :smug:), for a release Monday, but the office is closed tomorrow and everybody's scrambling to get stuff through QA today. I proposed we delay the release to Tuesday and it actually worked. I'm completely floored.

We did a round of sprint planning yesterday.

The plan for this sprint is to enjoy the holidays and get exactly nothing done until January. :D

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Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Destroyenator posted:

Once a team is more mature you're able to assess which bits are working for you and what you'd like to change.

This is also how you can tell whether a team is doing Agile or agile. Sadly I think its much more common for this to never happen than it is for it to happen.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

MisterZimbu posted:

I think we need to implement code reviews for the solely so the other developers will spell their class/file names correctly and tab poo poo in consistently.

God drat.

Code can be autoformatted, but gently caress you if you spell your class and file name incorrectly, even after you are told so several times before merging to master.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

PT6A posted:

I don't write tests as often as I should because I'm a lazy rear end in a top hat, but boy howdy are they useful and I should write comprehensive unit tests more often.

The fact that someone would both not write proper unit tests and not think they're at all a good idea, or equally, that they do write unit tests and still think they're useless -- that's a big error in judgement.

During my last job, I found out that whether I will or won't write tests, very strongly depends on how much bullshit I have to jump through before the tests are up and running.

We had a policy that anything shipping must have tests, and the time for making these was included in estimates. However, "development tools" didn't have to be tested and I was making one of those at the time. I actually had tests ready, but then found out, that tests had to be in different project. But to test from different project, tested functions had to be exported as a library... which would mean adding yet another project, to be compiled as a library and leaving the original project as a single file, that calls into the library, loving around with our build system (at the time, there was noone who knew WTF was really going on, later I ended up spending 2 months to unfuck our build system into something that was at least kinda sane, if you didn't look too hard) So there are no tests for anything written for that "development tool" and good luck if something breaks.


At another time, I wrote unit tests for ~200 lines of homework code, because it was less work than copy pasting input and checking output once.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

ChickenWing posted:

Yeah given that my previous experience with "Agile" was at a bank, where "Agile" meant "you get a half hour long meeting every morning along with all the other meetings", this is practically nirvana. I look forward to the mythical future when I finally get my rear end out of fintech and maybe get to experience something even better :allears:

Sup buddy, I worked in medtech.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

necrobobsledder posted:

Work-life balance doesn't mean that everyone instantly clocks out at 5:30 pm unless your datacenter is literally on fire by my standards, but that's what it seemed to mean for most people.

Assuming you work during the day, I don't see why not.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
Sounds like a place to run from really fast.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

KoRMaK posted:

I don't want to know anything else. Seems like everything else is bad technology lol.

Mercurial!

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
As an european, work rights in USA chat always amuses me... How do you put up with this poo poo?

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

sarehu posted:

The USA has a higher material standard of living than Europe. This includes metrics like poor USA households' dwelling size being bigger than average Europeans', whether you have laundry machines or a dishwasher, average number of unexploded bombs buried underneath your backyard, etc. How do Europeans put up with their poo poo?

We are smugly secure in not getting bankrupted by a hospital visit. :v:


Real talk: If you are a skilled professional in a high demand field (which you probably are, if you post here), then you are in a strong bargaining position and should use it to improve working conditions of you and your peers. This might, or might not, include collective action.

For some reason though, americans seem to be strongly opposed to actually doing so, and what is really sad, my peers here are catching the same FYGMish attitude -- "why should they pay taxes, when they aren't using unemployment benefits?" they ask, as they graduate completely debt free (in fact, state was helping them pay for housing), use local infrastructure and free healthcare...

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

jony neuemonic posted:

I gave 4 weeks as a courtesy once and was told not to tell any of my teammates until ~1.5 weeks before I was out.

Managers are weird.
Yep.

At Job-2, I told my manager that I am going to be out in 2 weeks and asked him if he has someone in mind to take over shepherding our build -- at that point I spent the last 3 months unfucking our horrific nightmare of build system, so we went from 20+minute builds to <5 minutes including running tests, having build server build releases and binary artifacts for developers (we also didn't have enough licences for some of the software our builds required :v: but thats different story) and generally making things work better on the development side, but there were still some rough edges.


He asked me for 4 weeks, I said okay and then never got time to transfer knowledge to someone else. Last two tasks I was given were given to me literally on the last Friday I was there. The only knowledge transfer happened when I took one of my colleagues aside and gave him 1 hour crash course (here is what works, what doesnt, why, what is likely to go wrong and how to fix it) out of our own initiative. :shrug:

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

I thought you are all jaded and cynical now :v:

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Iverron posted:

If there's a deluge of need there's also a deluge of lovely places to work.

This is a very picky industry from the other side as well, even the lovely places think they're el goog.

Very much this. Finding a job is piss easy. Finding a job worth the time is harder.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
I have x250, the ultimate road warrior notebook (sorry, ultrabook) with larger battery and lte modem built-in. :colbert:

I was actually thinking about mbp, but after looking into the connector and lte modem situation, it seemed like I would have to carry ton of dongles everywhere, kinda defeating the point :shrug:


Also WSL is loving great.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Vulture Culture posted:

I think all developers should have the fastest CI money can buy, and painfully slow testing servers that randomly drop, duplicate or mis-order packets, lose connections, and stop responding to requests at odd intervals

https://jagt.github.io/clumsy/

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
I actually kinda liked working with Spark, well PySpark, but I only made toy programs, didn't have to administer the cluster and so on.



My toy ~200 lines of code still managed to run into some stupid problems, like non-existent error reporting. :v:

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
I installed work IM on my phone exactly once.

It was there long enough to send a message along the lines of "Got stuck at the doctor for longer than expected, won't be there for the meeting" to rest of my team.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Hughlander posted:

I almost want to go interview at a start up just to gently caress with people. I'd love to see the reaction to something like:

Me: I'm really passionate about my work, and only want to work with passionate people as well.
CEO: Great! Well you'll find we're all really passionate here!
Me: So can you share with me some of the companies you manage when you leave here? Are there any public companies you're a CEO for on the weekends I can check out?

Please do, that actually sounds hilarious.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Pollyanna posted:

The entirety of a unit of work to be done, and no more, should be captured in a single ticket. The contract is to complete the unit of work specified in the requirements to the best of the engineer’s ability. Don’t ask for a subset of work in a ticket then turn around at the end of it and pile on more poo poo I didn’t know about. If you want me to do more, make a new ticket or get it all down at the beginning.

This sounds a lot like "I don't want to think for myself and have responsibility". I know that you think about yourself as a junior, but that shouldn't preclude you from having some initiative.


Or would you prefer if people wrote tickets like this?

"Extend frobnicator to also frobulate.
Add tests showing that frobnicator can now frobulate.
Refactor old tests to properly put frobnicator into frobnicating mode
Update comments to reflect that frobnicator also frobulates
Update documentation to reflect that frobnicator also frobulates
...
...
..."

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
C++ is full snake_case language, for types as well as for variable names.

PascalCase is usually reserved for template arguments and PascalCase might come to signalize template concepts, so a

C++ code:
InputIterator a = ...
would mean that the type of a will be inferred according to the RHS, but it must conform to Input Iterator concept.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Pollyanna posted:

Genuine question. Without looking, what would you guess I work on?

IIRC you did some Ruby and webshit, so I am gonna guess JS and webshit now? :v:

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
We have 85% and its good enough. We could chase after the last couple percent but

A) gcov is garbage and invents lines out of nowhere
B) I don't feel like testing that our structured exception handler runs properly (which means prints what killed us and exits)

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
We are basically standing up a reasonable development infra from scratch (we will be transitioning research code into prod :v:) and I need some advice.

We want
  1. Git hosting
  2. issue tracker
  3. CI runner
  4. Server to test performance differences
  5. Backups
  6. code coverage tracker
  7. Code review tool

So far, we are planning to lean heavily on self-hosted gitlab and stand up a dedicated server for d), because we don't have much experience with different tools, e.g. YouTrack or TeamCity. Not sure what is a good tool for f) in a mixed Java/C++ codebase.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
The self-hosting is a pretty strong requirement. Our client has a mild case of paranoia and wants to host everything on their own hardware for security, so their own hardware they will get, even though I'd be majorly surprised if their own IT staff is actually competent security-wise.


So far we are looking at GitHub for enterprise, Travis CI for enterprise or TeamCity (I am pushing for TeamCity) and codecov for enterprise. I plan to push for some dedicated code-review tool because Github PR comments kinda suck for detailed reviews.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

necrobobsledder posted:

The CI / build / devops / SRE thread may serve you better https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3695559

Yeah, that would've likely been a better choice.

Anyway, ATM there is approx 0 chance of Jenkins :v:

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
I don't want to add to the Pollyanna pileup too much, but what has been said reflects my experience with her pretty well in that she tends to come off as "I know best, even though I am barely out of coding bootcamp" while espousing some... questionable opinions.

For content, this list of interviewee questions from the 'POS is good:

quote:

- who do you work with on a daily basis / describe the day to day role

translation : are you working with a well-defined team that puts out consistent work or is this place a clusterfuck with people coming and going on a weekly basis because management is incompetent

- how are decisions made / how will [team] be asked to accomplish things / who makes those decisions

translation: are the people making decisions that impact your work accountable to you / your team and do you have the ability to influence them or are they dictated from on high or even worse forced upon you by a hostile entity

- what are the company's primary values? what characteristics are you looking for in a candidate in relation to those primary values?

translation: if they say 'uhhhhhhhhhh' here it's a red flag. if they throw gibberish at you it's not a red flag but it's not a good look either. this should get a human bean answer

- what would be expected of me for the first / three / six months? What will success look like in this position, how will it be measured?

translation: same as the last one.

- what sort of training/mentoring/career dev things are here

translation: they should also be able to answer this without thinking. if they hesitate or bullshit you it's a red flag

- what's the most impressive thing you've seen out of someone else you've interviewed recently

translation: what qualities are people here impressed with. what caliber of candidates are you also considering.

- What do you see as the most challenging aspect of this job?

translation: every job has some bullshit aspect to it. this is their chance to lay it on softly and your chance to decide if it's a particular brand of bullshit you can put up with

- how do you set milestones/deliverables for projects and how does your team react when it's clear they won't be met

translation: are you going to work me like a slave when we don't hit the deadline we never agreed to

- when was the last time you took pto / how much did you take / what did you do

translation: without fail lovely interviewers for lovely companies will try to deflect this one. if they try to say 'oh no don't worry about that' or respond with their actual pto policy just reiterate that they didn't answer your question. when was the last time YOU took pto

---edit---
Note that it is primarily applicable to larger companies, ie as far as I know we don't have official values and the unofficial ones are something like "make $$$ while doing interesting research", but we are ~5 academics who are trying to move some of our research into real world :v:

Xarn fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jan 18, 2018

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

New Yorp New Yorp posted:

In general, a question should follow Stack Overflow rules.
...
Hell, the act of writing down the question in the first place might give you an "ah-hah!" moment that answers your own question.

Very much this. The process of getting a minimal example for SO question usually ends up with me figuring things out, to the point where I post only about 1 question out of 10.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Pollyanna posted:

If I get hired, I want to know that I am needed.

So, I am fairly sure you also posted complaints about management desiring too much from jr. dev and planning badly so there are crazy deadlines. If that was not you sorry :v:

Good management should hire people preemptively, because people need time to ramp up and become productive. This means that when you are being hired, you are not actually needed, because ideally the management is hiring you because they expect more dev work to be there in the next quarter. This means that there is no crazy pressure to perform right now, but also that there is no need for you, because there is enough time to interview and select for more people.

There are exceptions, generally consultants and senior level people are someone who can ramp-up quicker and who you look for when there is crunch, but as long as you are jr. programmer you are not, and should not be, needed.


If by needed you meant something more along the lines of "they have long-term plans for me", then that's obviously different, but still, it will be more of a "we have long-term plans for a jr. programmer", not "we have long-term plans for Pollyanna" :shrug:

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
TBH I recently did 72 character (soft) limit, and being able to have 2 panels side by side on a 12" ultraportable is nice.

If you are working with a proper desktop, lol, go for ~120.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Vulture Culture posted:

Odd-numbered tabs are hard tabs. Even-numbered tabs are four spaces.

Reverse for even-numbered lines.

:suicide:

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
I would unironically hire that person.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
Offices or bust. :colbert:

If there is enough space, I don't mind sharing with couple more programmers tho.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
How many companies have you worked for, again?

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

baquerd posted:

Software engineers having a union would at least be a very clear signal to anyone decent to stay the gently caress away from that company. Engineers are only being exploited by lovely companies, the companies you want to work for are showering their workers with money and benefits.

Excellent post + text combo.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
Also there is something that feels uniquely american about going "as it turns out, going all out on <X> is lovely, so we must go all out on <not X>", especially in context of Capitalism vs Communism.
As someone living in a country from the former Eastern Bloc, I am gonna let you on a secret: People are still lovely under communist regime, and there are still haves, and have nots, and the most important characteristic for being amongst the haves is to know the right people.


One would almost think that people are just lovely in general :thunk:

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

fantastic in plastic posted:

I'd be more worried about the effects it would have on the structure of our profession rather than productivity or wages. We'd almost certainly become more professionalized, like "real" engineers or doctors or lawyers. Credentials might be established, we might start to be held liable for loving up in a way that costs the business revenue, standards would be enforced, and so on. It's not like it would be entirely upside.

How is that bad? Just given the amount of plaintext-or-weak-hashed password leaks we have on the reg, some loving professionalism, liability and other poo poo is needed. Add to it trivial security errors standard in IOT, PII leaking everywhere and so on, and tell me how it is a bad thing :v:

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

baquerd posted:

That sucks too, and unions may be a good alternative in those kinds of workplaces (like I said - one hallmark of a lovely tech company/management would be that unions exist).


Please do tell what companies are good. :allears:

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

baquerd posted:

It changes over time, not just company to company but group to group within a company, and it's very dependent on the type of atmosphere you like to work in. This makes it very important to do your own individual research and engage the company in the interview process. My dream job might be your nightmare and vice versa.

You have said that good companies shower their employees with perks on their own and do not try to gently caress them over.

Now back up your words and tell which company is good. Here is a start: It ain't any of the big 5.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

baquerd posted:

I don't know who you are, what your skills are, what you're looking for, or what you enjoy. Accordingly, I can't recommend you a place where you'll be great and showered with perks and money. There's no one company that's great for everyone.

JawnV6 posted:

It's amazing that this list goes from innumerably many awesome companies just sloshing buckets of cash on rando code monkeys to a scant few that depend wholly on the individual person, seemingly entirely dependent on the last quoted post.

Where do you work? A good place or are you a sucker?

:colbert:



Pixelboy posted:

I work for one of the big ones. I have insanely generous perks and benefits. And yes, I have an office.

Not sure what is informing your position, but it is not ground truth.

I never claimed the big 5 don't provide a lot of cash and benefits. I do however claim that they do not do it out of the goodness of their hearts, but because of current market realities in IT. If you don't believe me, explain e.g. wage collusion*.



* TBH I think American job market is completely stupid and the more extreme parts are unhealthy.

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Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
If you liked, you should've put a test on it. :colbert:

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