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csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution
I practice shuffling cards one-handed while mousing around with my off hand. The sleight-of-hand will be useful at upcoming feature scheduling meetings :v:

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csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution
e: double post

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Messyass posted:

Has anybody ever actually had the luxury of a product owner who:
- knows what she's talking about
- has mandate to make decisions
- is available day to day?

In my experience two out of three has been the maximum.

Two out of three's about as good as I've had it too. I'm lucky in that my product owners have mostly been of the first two, but that ends up being mutually exclusive with the third because if they know what they're talking about and can make impactful decisions then they're in very high demand.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Finster Dexter posted:

But really, as a dev, I don't need a PO that does #2 and #3. Dev should have the mandate to make decisions (about implementation, anyway)

Decision making by the PO is not supposed to be about implementation. POs need to have the ability to make decisions about prioritization and requirements, and unfortunately I've had far too many experiences where the PO's prioritization is overridden by executives or other jokers who just want to satisfy the latest biggest deal.

As a dev you absolutely want to have a PO who has the mandate to set and maintain prioritization so that you don't end up with unnecessary whiplash.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

sarehu posted:

And then give an estimate of the round-trip latency depending on how big the dataset is / how big rows are.

Would anyone actually ask this? Real-world read speed and query-to-result is going to be dictated by pressures on the database engine by other queries and memory / tempdb caching, not just table size.

...or did I just give the best answer? :aaa:

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution
Yeah I agree that understanding the complexity of a database operation is important. It was sarehu's comment about latency which confused me into wondering why anyone would ask about that specifically.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

CPColin posted:

I'm not going to try to convince you that it was lovely.

Of course it's lovely! Layoffs are lovely. They're a dehumanizing response to poor planning - but I agree with Ithaqua, the actual day it happens is less of a thing for the person that it happens to than the fact that it happened at all. Odds are in fact that someone involved with a layoff event will be having a birthday, or their significant other will be, or their children will be, or some similarly supposed-to-be-fun thing will be going on. There is simply no good time to be laid off for the employee getting laid off.

Plus you have to be realistic: if a company is prone to doing layoffs at all, no organizer of a layoff going to reconfigure it because the day of the year is significant to someone being affected. That's just the cold nature of it. Here are the reasons HR might decide that someone should not be involved in a layoff event:
  • They are in a legally protected class and it can be proven (a priori) that they were put on the list for that reason
  • It can be proven (again, a priori) that they were placed on the list as a retaliatory action by management

And both of those have a big fat MAYBE riding alongside. At the big company I used to work for as a manager I'd only ever seen layoff lists be questioned for the first reason and all it did was slow HR down while the company made sure their asses were covered.

That was one reason among many that I got out :unsmith:

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

KoRMaK posted:

Why does the dba care the purpose of the loving columns?

It's generally an X-Y problem. What the DBMS supports something more efficient than what the developer asked for? If I said to a DBA that I needed a string column but neglected to inform them that what I was storing was XML or JSON or something structured like that then what will probably happen is the resulting schema won't be optimal for storage and the developer will probably write some stupid loving LIKE query which would table scan and absolutely murder performance.

quote:

How many rows are in this table?

Knowing how large the table is going to get would be very important for data partitioning and disk allocation. Knowing how frequently it's going to be accessed would be important for knowing what media to store the data on...stupidly expensive high availability SAN or less speedy but less costly disks?

To sum up, it's just possible that a good DBA may know something about DBMSes that even a good developer doesn't :ssh:

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Pollyanna posted:

The worst part of computers isn't the computers themselves, but the people using them.

Congratulations on realizing the truth behind truths! Go forth with eyes open and realize that the code you're working on doesn't matter nearly as much as not surrounding yourself with horrible people because that poo poo is pure poison.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution
"Technical debt" in and of itself isn't a bad thing. It's what you leverage to get a working product out on a timetable. Like any other kind of debt it can be overextended and cripple you eventually but it's not inherently evil.

I've been fighting the same fight as CPColin on my team and emphasizing the importance of filing tickets when you see random things that need improvement in existing codebases. That gives the issues visibility and you'll have something to point to and say "This is why it's hard to add new features." Plus when you have the tickets recorded your team can agree on (or a technical lead can tell you) what takes priority and what doesn't, and you can take credit for completing tasks.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

rt4 posted:

I like the way Michael Feathers puts it: anything that doesn't have unit tests is legacy code.

Tests serve both as explanation of usage and confirm that changes haven't broken anything.

That's a strange way of defining "legacy." Something can be extremely tested but still out of date with the current set of requirements.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

ToxicSlurpee posted:

In c# strings are a primitive type. In Java they are not. In Java == is a reference comparison for string objects. That's the big difference; this is why == works that way for ints in both langauge.

C# strings are not a primitive type.

C#'s "trick" is that it has operator overloading. System.String provides an == overload that does value comparison instead of reference comparison. Reference types which don't provide an == overload will do reference comparison and value types will do value comparison.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Steve French posted:

And this is why you don't try to generalize job titles too much between companies.

Working in Development: Don't Try to Generalize Job Titles Between Companies

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Pollyanna posted:

Just got a (small) PR for caching Bundler gems via a Docker container rejected, with the reason "Please bring this as a part of the improvement ideas for the team to prioritize". :psyduck: The PR alleviates an issue with a branch that was recently merged into staging that also requires a new gem, and people's Docker containers blew up as a result. I understand the importance of prioritizing changes, but this seemed like a critical issue.

Did you tell the reviewer or the rest of your team, personally and not just a comment on the PR, "I found a critical issue and will be submitting a PR to fix it"? No offense intended but if they're fresh off your gigantic refactoring PRs they might not have actually understood that this was a defect that needed fixing in the short term.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

piratepilates posted:

What do people mean when they say they test for team fit? It's been a while since I went for interviews and I don't remember much about seeing if I fit in to a team. What would that even be? Making sure the person isn't an rear end in a top hat, or expecting everyone to be wearing suits at the company?

When people say "testing for team fit" they usually mean a part of the interview which is attempting to make the candidate fits their ~ company culture ~. The concept is given a lot of crap but I have interviewed many people who passed our programming tests but then turned out to be absolute shits of human beings. A couple of standouts: person who couldn't stop leering at one of the female interviewers, person doing a remote interview where we screenshared and they had a wallpaper saying "What do you call the extermination of six million Jews? A good start!"

Vulture Culture's point, and I agree with it, is that If a company believes you should only interview 100% on technical skills and don't even consider the part where the candidate may ever have to interact with some other person then that company will probably end up hiring people who normal individuals cannot stand to be around.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution
Working in Development: What's grooming?

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Skandranon posted:

You think the bosses that give those out expect part of it if you win?

No, but the bosses definitely only spent one dollar (per however many tickets) per employee on "gifts." Since most of those are probably worth only as much as the paper they're printed on, the effective "gift" from the employee's perspective is even less than was spent. If anything does come of the tickets then it's at the state's expense and not the company's. It's a copout.

Hell, even a tub of popcorn has guaranteed calories.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Maluco Marinero posted:

Eh, honestly I think it's a sign of unoriginality and a lack of vocabulary/communication skills, than any sort of philosophical stand. Swearing all the time is just such low effort.

You've clearly never heard me swear. I've got technique.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Pollyanna posted:

Then we've just looped back to standard corporate vacation days.

I'm genuinely curious why you would say this. Standard corporate vacation policies specify a maximum number of days taken with no lower bound, so Vulture Culture's example of specifying a minimum with no [documented] upper bound is the standard policy's exact opposite. What do you mean?

I worked at a place which, after an acquisition, converted standard PTO accrual to unlimited but didn't pay out the difference. When unlimited went into effect there was no minimum specified. HR flatly refused to answer any requests for clarification from management which resulted in some managers documenting how much people took and unofficially rating them based on minimums or maximums (depended on the manager!), and some managers not giving a gently caress. It was not a good policy.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution
What industry actually uses COCOMO in modern practice? I learned about it in my software engineering course in college in 2001, taught by a guy who hadn't been in industry for years, then never heard about it again.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution
Well why polish the turd and compare it to COCOMO at all unless it's a form of COCOMO? Like Vulture Culture said that's just going to attract terrible managers and make people who understand software estimation even a little not take you seriously.

If you've created a tool dealio that estimates time to close for Github issues based on historical data and tags or whatever then call it something like Github Issue Estimator


And yeah of course machine learning is going to have a hard time determining when a Github issue is closed, the halting problem hasn't been solved :haw:

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

curufinor posted:

I'll call it Comestimate because I am very hungry right now

Uh okay

quote:

Most actual practical machine learning problems attack a lovely version of the halting problem, because correlational structure expands in time indefinitely. Long-temporal-distance correlation is a fundamental feature of human language for example and long spatial distance correlation is a fundamental feature of all interesting image data. Think of 2nd-order phase transition where correlational distance expands to the whole object with infinite distance... but modern machine learning poo poo can attack it not too badly.

Okay.

Just to make sure I'm understanding what you want here, you want to validate the accuracy of your algorithms by recruiting a human person to look at the same Github project as your tool to estimate TTC on the issues then wait to see who is more right? That doesn't sound very practical unless it's a project with a high rate of issue creation and resolution which probably means it's intractable (or just boring) for a human to crawl all that data and come up with an estimate. How much are you paying for such a recruit?

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

curufinor posted:

It's basically a LSTM with like 20 weird tricks cribbed from the recesses of random papers I read over the last decade and a lot of weird issue tracker-specific features

Unfortunately spouting off machine learning heuristics and statistical distribution models is not a very good sales pitch for why anyone, particularly project management professionals, should care about this tool.

Will this tool generate a prediction for time to completion for a completely novel task on a given project that has been analyzed?
What about a completely novel project?
How much data does it need to bootstrap?
How does it estimate resources allocated to a task or is it agnostic of this?
If the estimates are agnostic of assigned resources, how can it generate predictive data that's worth anything?
How have you proven its correctness to date?


edit: looking back I realize this sounds adversarial and if it comes off as being too much of an rear end in a top hat I apologize. The fact is if you want to introduce a new estimation tool into the marketplace there are going to be some tough questions to answer, like "can the market support yet another estimation tool?" and "is there even a market for this kind of estimation?" If this is a personal project then the stuff about the marketplace doesn't apply. Personal projects are great! If you use it as a portfolio project though, you may want to be prepared to answer the above list of questions anyway. I know I'd ask them if this was presented to me by a candidate.

csammis fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Mar 10, 2017

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Plorkyeran posted:

Not getting any sort of advance notice or severance package for anything but getting fired for cause is super unusual and lovely.

Happened to me on Friday :v:

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

KoRMaK posted:

I would needle and erode them with questions of "why" like a loving 5 year old asking about the color of the sky.

True story, when a previous company started trying to do MVP their consultant recommended this exact tactic to use on product managers asking for new features. They called it "five 'whys'" and the theory went that if you couldn't get to a concrete use case for a feature by the time you've asked "Why A? Because B. Why B?" five times then that feature isn't really necessary. It was fun the first couple of times and then the yelling / ignoring started...so yeah pretty much like a 5 year old :v:

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Vulture Culture posted:

e: to boot, the idea that developers know more than the product owners and stakeholders on what features will provide the most future value to the business is both combative and arrogant. It presumes incompetence on the part of the people making the decisions, which will never yield good results in that relationship.

In all fairness I should say that developers weren't part of this 5-whys-with-product-managers process. My part in this was as a senior architect over a subset of a large enterprise content management platform, and I was a product owner in my own right. Part of my role was to take feature requests from people who were not engineers or even necessarily system experts and turn them into engineering enhancements that kept the platform more or less cohesive. Quite often a product manager or sales person would come to engineering with a feature request that could already be solved by some lesser-known part of this massive system, so drilling down into feature requirements wasn't a waste of time.

That having been said almost all of our product mangers were very competent and 5-whys is built around the tactics of literal children so...yup. I already said it didn't go well :)


Hell at least we actually talked about adding features to the platform itself. Our system had a scriptable interface that was a dialect of Javascript, so really freaking easy to pick up on. 95% of our feature requests could have been responded to with "have professional services write them a script," the actual execution of which caused 98% of my alcohol intake.

csammis fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Apr 27, 2017

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Pollyanna posted:

I dunno if it's worth it for me to apply

stop doing this

I've lost track of how many times it's been said in these threads but stop doing the other company's recruiter's job for them. Just Apply.

quote:

Can't hurt to try, so...maybe I should be doing that.

You should be!

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

KoRMaK posted:

why though? IS it a compiler thing or something?

Yes. The short story is that the compiler or interpreter maps functions to locations in memory so that it can easily turn function invocations into jumps to that location.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

geeves posted:

That's lovely thing for management to ask. And for 2016? Jesus.

Something like this was asked of us a few years back. We just sent them a Google Sheet of linked ticket numbers and titles by assignee from Jira.

They were not happy but we told them we didn't have time for this poo poo.

CPColin posted:

Apparently everybody was confused about what everybody else was asking for, because my supervisor just sent another email to tell everybody not to worry, because they're actually looking for some other statistic.

This sort of thing happens pretty regularly (annually in fact :haw: ) at companies going for the R&D tax credit

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Pollyanna posted:

That might just be me projecting

"extrapolating" more than "projecting" maybe?

quote:

I’m just very suspicious of it.

And based solely on your experience that's understandable, but what you keep doing in these threads is taking your personal experiences and promulgating them like universal truths...and that just isn't the case. There are only a couple of universal truths to working in development, the main ones being that all code is terrible and that computers were a mistake.

I'll throw in my anecdote: a couple of jobs ago my company went to an unlimited vacation policy. My management chain were good people and made sure employees knew that they were cool with people leveraging the policy as they personally felt appropriate. Most of my coworkers were professional about it and didn't take off a ton of time with no notice, and still met their commitments for a given release cycle. It was really nice. Going from that situation to a limited PTO bank and a manager who is quite strict about asses-in-chairs for 40 hours a week sucked a lot.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution
Without commenting on the pros or cons of an organization having a remote work policy, having it at all is 100% opt-in for said organization. How is it necessarily lovely management to not to implement such a thing?

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Pollyanna posted:

Started at my new new place this week ... Plus, I swear that 1/3 to 1/2 of my time here this week was spent in meetings.

Training? Onboarding?

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:

I'm also in charge of updating everybody's JIRA tickets now, which I found out last week after the CEO got mad at me for not making sure all of the other developers' JIRA tickets were updated. So I guess I'm a product manager now or something?

Project manager :eng99:

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Boiled Water posted:

She could also lie and just put down working there while actually having quit.

That's not a great idea. If a prospective employer calls your previous employers to verify employment history, one of the only things that the previous employer is technically allowed to verify is dates of hire and termination. If those don't match your story by a significant margin - not like "I put down 'May 13,' it was actually 'May 10' but "I put down May, it was actually February" - that is quite a discrepancy to be explained.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Shirec posted:

normally I'd get paid out on leaving a place because I hadn't used it all

This is not guaranteed in all 50 states in our glorious union :ssh:

quote:

a $5k signing bonus

Be sure to find out if there's a repayment schedule on a signing bonus! Companies can and will write a promissory note into a signing bonus so that you must work for them for X years or pay back the bonus upon separation, prorated. This isn't automatically a deal breaker but you should be aware of it if your active plan is to continue job-shopping and jump in fewer than X years.

quote:

Any warnings on posting the glassdoor thing? I've googled the re-write and none of it shows up, so I feel ok about it

I want to read it as much as the next poster but you really shouldn't post it so that it can be connected to you. Just because something doesn't show up in the Google index right now doesn't mean it won't tomorrow, or it might show up some other index, or some drat thing. Anyone can register an account to track your posts in the non-public parts of SA if they realize you post here at all. Schadenfreude is suuuuuper nice but realistically no good can come of it.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution
Try the Goons For Hire thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3246449

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution
It's the first particle accelerator able to hit the powers that it can hit. There's a physical limit to how small something like that can be.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Grump posted:

Today I picked up a ticket from our JIRA board that was unassigned but someone else on my team had done the requirements gathering (and probably assumed he was going to be the one to work on it). Am I a dick for picking this ticket up when someone else did all the leg work? This is literally stressing me out so much, but I'm also getting sick of this "This dev went to the meetings so the feature is his" mentality

Are you a dick about this objectively? Probably not, but if you’re worried about hurt feelings you should just talk to the person in question, maybe something like this:

“Hey <dev> I saw this ticket was still unassigned, I assigned it to myself so we could get it off our plate, cool? If you want to do it yourself I’ll assign it to you and pick up something else.”

Then if requested actually do assign it to him right away. Unassigned work tends to go ignored.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution
Working in Development: I like my job and I want to do less of it.

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csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Please do not tweet my bash history

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