Working in Development: Leaving sounds like a great decision.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Working in Development: Leaving sounds like a great decision.

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Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

That's nuts and +1 supporting your decision to get out.

If I didn't work at a place that's mon-thur travel I'd reach out about a job.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2018 21:22

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 09:26

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

smackfu posted:

In my new role, every three months we have a big planning meeting where every team commits to the features they will be developing and what sprint they will do each story. If your team doesn’t meet your goals for each sprint and the overall quarter, you are raked over the coals.

Somehow this is called agile.

Are you using SAFE?

Because I've seen that happen a lot in those environments.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2018 13:19

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Titles are so meaningless outside of a company that idk how anyone derives value from them.

However recruiters or recruiting software sometimes need a 1:1 match so everyone should do what they have to do getting past poor gate keepers.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2018 14:01

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

If it's any consolidation: As an agile manager type of person, I would have happily chucked the numbers or made up whatever was necessary to satisfy the machine while people got poo poo done.

Even though it's prob put a lot of dollars in my pocket, a part of me wishes this whole "agile" thing hadn't blown up. There so much cargo cult superficial bullshit, it's just makes everyone cynical

# ¿ Aug 30, 2018 17:58

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

A haka at a scrum training.

Ugh why does this poo poo have to be so goofy.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2018 15:42

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Portland Sucks posted:

"If your project deadline is 12 months from now, and they decide they want it now, it's possible to start your project 12 months behind."

It's also possible for me to find a new job. Good luck on that project!

Money today is more valuable than money tomorrow. I'm spending money today to get something tomorrow. Thus all projects are behind.

*Sounds of whips and screams in background*

# ¿ Nov 1, 2018 18:25

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Volmarias posted:

This is awesome and I would love to do it too, though? As long as there's no camera and the sloshing is minimised why should you care how I luxuriate in my own home?

It's the only place I get good signal!

# ¿ Nov 29, 2018 15:33

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

wilderthanmild posted:

Ugh I moved to a leadership position and I feel lucky when I have less than 4 a day.

Or when I at least don't have any after the time I usually leave. People don't seem to realize my schedule is always open after 4 because I usually leave then.

Block your calendar with something. We have a po who has to get her kid and has her calendar blacked out from 4 on so no one tries to hold her.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 20:46

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

My only issue with safe is that it is poisoning so many people who don't know better against agile. Which is really a pretty common sense and human friendly approach to things.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2019 01:16

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

bob dobbs is dead posted:

Yeah, the metaphors don't really respect the non-physicality of software

ban physical analogies for software development. They just reinforce incorrect thoughts and open the door for dumb time-wasting counter-points.

Almost no one is qualified to actually construct a bridge or an airplane or particle collider. Why is it helpful to take something they don't understand to explain something they don't understand?

# ¿ Apr 14, 2019 17:45

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

I'll amend ban to "drastically reduce", to not be hyperbolic for the internet.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2019 18:39

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

HR guy wants to take PTO tomorrow so said gently caress it.

/s but maybe not...

I'm not sure that I couldn't log right back into some old jobs/projects. Especially working in tech where there's shadow chat apps and Trello boards all over the drat place.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2019 20:30

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

I'm curious what the mock-up in XL looks like? Of all the UI modeling options, including literally drawing boxes with pen and paper, that seems like the least intuitive.

Edit: not making GBS threads on pastrami man, sounds like an effective communicator

# ¿ May 13, 2019 21:00

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Wibla posted:

Does it matter what tool they use as long as they get the point across well enough?

Mockups are just that, mockups. No one gives a gently caress as long as they do their job.

My point was that it would be really hard to model something complicated in XL, and was curious for the story about that since it was successful.

Makes a ton of sense hearing the details.

# ¿ May 14, 2019 00:22

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

You know how authors/bands/directors turn to poo poo once they're too famous for an editor?

Well....

# ¿ Jun 13, 2019 21:52

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Carbon dioxide posted:

Truth.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2019 20:12

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Rubellavator posted:

About two years ago we discovered that practically nobody actually uses our fancy front-end for data entry, instead opting to create all their data in excel and import it in csv. Hell, one of the data standards we support is an 80-column card system from the 70s, and there are people out there building their data in notepad.

I'm pretty sure many business products would be best served just using Excel as their FE.

gently caress it, actually just sell Excel as an entire OS. Stick a web browser on tab 2.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2019 02:24

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Most of those things are overlapping methodologies that share a lot of the same ideas. So its pretty stupid to throw them all up on one chart like you would ever do all of them together or that they're actually overly different things.

So I guess exactly the kind of superficiality and cargo culting one should expect...

# ¿ Aug 7, 2019 19:39

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

In my team we bullshit on weekends (or whenever tbh) in WhatsApp but try to keep slack for the workday. I've had similar "separation of message apps" in the past and I think it helps.

I mean, assuming you have coworkers you want to chat with about not work.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2019 13:48

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Maybe helpful to post this article from SVPG on delivery vs feature vs product team.

https://svpg.com/product-vs-feature-teams/

I've def felt pretty stuck as "product manager" or product owner on feature teams and realized it's kind of a nothing job.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2019 21:42

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

If you find good programmers with bad resumes, you are exploiting a market inefficiency!

Well on your way to becoming a cold blooded captain of industry!

# ¿ Nov 4, 2019 23:27

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

A bone stock jira is pretty alright.

People go crazy with customizations and make it terrible. If it's on-prem they under resource the infrastructure and everything crawls.

The problem is almost never the tool and the tool will almost never solve the problem.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2019 20:32

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

SimonChris posted:

http://svn.cacert.org/CAcert/CAcert_Inc/Board/oss/oss_sabotage.html

I just learned about this old OSS manual on how to subtly sabotage enemy organizations, and apparently a lot of managers are secretly CIA saboteurs.

also

Why is the CIA spying on me?!?!?!

I feel like I'm in on the ground floor of a 100 LinkedIn posts and eventual Ted talks

# ¿ Jan 17, 2020 14:45

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Interesting. I scored mid level but because I was high in some categories and low in others.

I've felt pretty burnt out, even despite starting what should be a really great job. It's been hard to understand, so it was helpful seeing a breakdown

# ¿ Feb 16, 2020 21:22

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

I credit highschool Latin for whatever coding ability I managed to absorb. Especially under an ex monk who was about as particular as a computer regarding syntax.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2020 19:35

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

prom candy posted:

I guess I really need to start meditating since it seems like everywhere I go people are recommending it. I tried it a bunch in January but I found it extremely boring.

To some degree, that is the point.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2020 16:17

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

https://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/blog/introducing-the-lafable-process-for-scaling-agile

# ¿ Apr 2, 2020 12:39

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Thanks! I mostly lurk this thread but am trying to identify all the different life rafts.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2020 18:23

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

ChickenWing posted:

okay how's this work because I'm very strongly of the "I don't want corporate IT's grubby paws in my device" persuasion but I've heard peripherally of this option and how it's basically a second partition?

From what I can tell it's all partitioned. Your corp it cannot view or control anything in your personal phone. It works pretty well and I like it better than any previous solution.

Idk if there's insidious configuration or work around that compromises that.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2020 18:23

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Che Delilas posted:

Anyone ever had a product manager or other non-engineer decide on performance targets for an application you own based on performance numbers from a vendor's application that your application interfaces with? Like, "this third party service does its part of the job in X time on average, so our part of the job should take X/4 time on average" ?

Does that strike anyone else as absurd?

Is it to keep your app from becoming the bottleneck?

# ¿ Aug 26, 2020 12:18

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

I am an experienced PM and now a manager of PMs.

I don't think we have a thread for it on SA. I have considered starting something but I don't think there's enough people to keep it active.I mostly lurk in this thread.

These posts are correct, obviously there's other things PMs do (or should do) that devs don't necessarily see. They for sure feels the results though so it's good advice.

two things:

1) sometimes the PM or product person is positioned by the org as an empty suit. Those jobs suck and you should not stick around longer than what it takes to get a better resume.

However, It's sometimes hard to even tell what authority you actually have. You might not realize how much you can do just looking at things on paper or even comparing to peers. So, learn your domain and try to take as much responsibly for the product vision and value as you can.

2) don't end up as the project manager. If you're only managing dependencies, deadlines and reporting that out - sorry your product in name only. That stuff is part of a product job but it shouldn't be the only or primary piece of work.

If that is what the company expects from their "product" people then you're probably better off jumping ship. Assuming you have a true product role, it's very possible to get sucked too far into that stuff, especially if eng or business management is weak.

I'm happy to chat here if others don't mind or via PM (pun!).

# ¿ Sep 13, 2020 20:03

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Hear hear!

# ¿ Sep 14, 2020 00:48

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

ChickenWing posted:

Please feel free to chat here, this is by no means a dev exclusive clubhouse and it's nice to hear from other perspectives from time to time

this applies to anyone else who may be lurking because they're not a code monkey - qa, project management, design, whatever

Well in that case.

Boy if you think finding good dev jobs is hard, come on over to product land. TBH I don't even think of myself as very good but I at least am aware of what I should aspire to. Which is better than 90% of the other product people I've run into.

I don't blame any dev for seeing POs and PMs as useless, because so many of them are terrible or so hamstrung by their role that they might as well be terrible.

I've almost left product 2 distinct times but I like the pay and enjoy the job "as it should be" so I'm probably a lifer now.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2020 19:46

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Lol I'm tech literate enough to scrape together dumb python scripts and I'd never even think to ask for a code review. Holy poo poo

Xguard86 posted:

I don't blame any dev for seeing POs and PMs as useless, because so many of them are terrible

# ¿ Sep 15, 2020 15:16

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Plorkyeran posted:

Post-it notes with a webcam pointed at the wall and a robot to move them.

Real talk I tried to rig this up with a lego mind storm set many years back.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2020 00:19

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Not a huge fan of "hi" but I do find the "sudden wall of text" technique a little jarring. Especially without paragraphs.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2020 12:21

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Maybe it's all the time spent playing everquest but I sort of prefer slack for most conversations.

I can talk to multiple people, there's a record if I forget or want to share info w/o garbling it and there's time to think and structure thoughts.

I also try to state my priority early or use the @ stuff effectively so I'm not intruding on people. I know how annoying it is having a busy body manager.

I am sort of hoping my comfort with async, remote tools and generally calm way of working is a unique advantage as a manager. Because I see so few who are comfortable with it.

Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Oct 16, 2020

# ¿ Oct 16, 2020 18:22

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

"observability" is a good key word too. Often paired with DevOps and SRE.

# ¿ Oct 23, 2020 21:20

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Safe sucks. You are completely correct in your diagnose of the issues. I too am driven insane by how ineffective companies are and despair to find an org not running at about a C+ level on it's best day.

As above: prepare your resume, whatever leetcode interview skills you need and see what's out there. There's a bias for loss-aversion so don't let fear of moving on limit you.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2020 14:44

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 09:26

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

We all just the click first one. I think it would be weird to add your own.

I keep mine yellow because as a white guy it feels weird actively selecting the white skin tone with what is floating around our there.

We have a guy who uses rainbow thumb but it's kind of "his thing".

# ¿ Nov 11, 2020 01:33

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Working in Development: Leaving sounds like a great decision.

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