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gret
Dec 12, 2005

goggle-eyed freak



Is it the internal combustion engine that's the problem on the Renault, the energy recovery system, or both? Because I don't know how much of a help Illien can be on the energy recovery aspect.

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Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx


The ice. Energy recovery is pretty solid made with rbr help.

Brainwrong
Mar 20, 2004

RIP Bobby K
Poland's Rose. Like a cabbage in the wind.


the kentucky quid
Jan 19, 2014



dreesemonkey posted:

Do we know the details of the Renault/RBR split engine wise?

My guess is that the Illian-based changes to the block is what Renault and RBR can start working from, but everything else will be designed separately? Is RBR going to manufacture their own blocks, or will they be supplied from Renault/Infiniti/Nissan still?

My understanding is that Illian is "employed" by Renault now, whether that's an FIA requirement or to ice their bruised ego I don't know. I don't think they can really feasibly split the design because ultimately it's circumventing the token system and every other team would've thrown a fit if that was allowed. Both teams would just end up using the one that worked better anyways.

At worse I would say Mecachrome is supplying the engine parts to Red Bull but I very much doubt that now that Renault has a works team. That engine is still very much a Renault design, slapping a new head on an engine is nice and everything but its not reinventing the wheel.

RALF
Mar 15, 2009



Grimey Drawer

I hope Renault beats Red Bull next year

Norns
Nov 21, 2011

Senior Shitposting Strategist



RALF posted:

I hope Renault beats Red Bull next year

This 1000 times over.

Big Huski Boi
Jun 28, 2007

Huski Chocolate is a lifestyle, not only a product. It's about adventure & expedition. Living life to the fullest. It's a perfect recovery drink after training, because of the healthy carbohydrate and protein content, easy to digest and perfect for replenishing tired muscles.

red bull will be using the exact same engine as renault but with a different name on it.

Tsaedje
May 11, 2007

*AUTISM INSTENSIFIES*



be nice wicka posted:

red bull will be using the exact same engine as renault but with a different name on it.

Meanwhile Toro Rosso will be cruising past both with this year's Ferrari which will still be quicker

dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008


Pillbug

RALF posted:

I hope Renault beats Red Bull next year

I have a horrible track record at predicting these things so you'll likely get your wish, BUT my gut says "nah" because:

1. It took RBR bringing in Illian to come up with solutions to the Renault powered ICE, particularly the block I guess. Up until that point Renault were stumped.
2. What are Renault going to do for their ERS system, I believe RBR was on their own and supplied that themselves. If it's going to be an in-house design they're going to have all sorts of teething issues.
3. Depending on how different the engines are between Renault factory team and RBR (completely separate based off the same design? Same engine minus the branding? Somewhere in between?) I have a feeling RBR will come up with a superior package because they've probably known this was going to happen at sometime and got some skunkworks Newey poo poo going on to make the best of whatever they have.
4. RBR chassis / aero are really good. Lotus finished last of the constructors with "best" engine. Welp.
5. RBR seems to be real good at cheating and has basically unlimited cash to throw at the problem.

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013

by FactsAreUseless


Illien is very talented and I hold him in very high regard but I'm not sure if it will be enough to return the Renault to the front.

the kentucky quid
Jan 19, 2014



Human Grand Prix posted:

Illien is very talented and I hold him in very high regard but I'm not sure if it will be enough to return the Renault to the front.

I'm going to very controversially say the man is competent and nothing more. He's built some good engines, but he's also built alot of incredibly average ones.

His biggest claim to fame is noticing a loophole in rules, that doesn't make him a master engine designer.

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx


RBR can't stop telling everyone who listens that they designed four different chassis; one for each engine type.

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

What is this boring crap we're watching? Check if Antiques Roadshow is on



I'm sure the glorious scud are quaking in their hand made loafers, a whole four chassis for four different engine types?! Whatever will they do?

Brainwrong
Mar 20, 2004

RIP Bobby K
Poland's Rose. Like a cabbage in the wind.


learnincurve posted:

Whatever will they do?


Whine and cheat when they don't get their own way?

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx


http://thejudge13.com/2015/12/04/ma...of-force-india/

quote:

Diageo, parent company of Johnnie Walker which is set to become one of Ecclestone’s global F1 sponsors in 2016, have listed details of the dispute in their 2015 annual report with Vijay Mallya. Further, the global spirit’s company have now listed the Force India team as an asset of Diageo, valued at around $120m.

Following the acquisition of Mallya’s United Spirits (US) business, certain questionable inter-company transactions between US and Mallya’s other companies emerged. Diageo launched an internal investigation into “various improprieties and legal violations” allegedly committed and they requested Mallya stand down from his role as Chairman and Director of the Indian liquor firm. Mallya refused claiming inferences and allegations are unjustified and false.

The dispute relates to debts in the balance sheet of US and Diageo are seeking to recover these directly from Vijay Mallya. In June, Diageo received a favourable court ruling forcing Mallya to repay the debts and granted the asset Force India as lodged as collateral with Diegeo.

...

Come the 18th December, Diageo could take a majority stake or even full ownership of the Force India team. Recent reports suggest the team will be renamed as Aston Martin, creating a platform for the Diageo premium brands to be linked with the historic British racing marque. Aston Martin are currently undertaking a rebuilding programme and so the car maker will also benefit from improved profile Formula One brings on the world stage.

Dubs
Mar 6, 2007

Stroll Own Zone.
Disregard Stroll outside zone.


P.Sure the power unit is a unit and ERS/ICE/KERS/HGST are all from renault and redbull didnt make their own ERS and poo poo?

Brainwrong
Mar 20, 2004

RIP Bobby K
Poland's Rose. Like a cabbage in the wind.


Riso posted:

http://thejudge13.com/2015/12/04/ma...of-force-india/

Diageo could take a majority stake or even full ownership of the Force India team.


I didn't think Mallaya owned the majority any way?

Brainwrong
Mar 20, 2004

RIP Bobby K
Poland's Rose. Like a cabbage in the wind.


Dubs posted:

ERS/ICE/KERS/HGST

Did you just have a stroke?

Dubs
Mar 6, 2007

Stroll Own Zone.
Disregard Stroll outside zone.


i am stroking

ukle
Nov 28, 2005



Finally the Aston Martin talk makes sense. Was wondering why the gently caress they would want to associate themselves with Vijay.

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx


Dubs posted:

i am stroking

Two, four or six stroke?

Tsaedje
May 11, 2007

*AUTISM INSTENSIFIES*



I am totally OK with Jordan DNA getting an Aston Martin badge

Brainwrong
Mar 20, 2004

RIP Bobby K
Poland's Rose. Like a cabbage in the wind.


Tsaedje posted:

I am totally OK with Jordan DNA getting an Aston Martin badge

No doubt we'll hear a story next year from EJ about how he invited Aston Martin to F1 in the 90s but he ended up out-business-dealing them and they walked away in shame.

Dubs
Mar 6, 2007

Stroll Own Zone.
Disregard Stroll outside zone.


Riso posted:

Two, four or six stroke?

nazi hooker orgy

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx


http://www.racer.com/f1/item/124275...tag-heuer-chief

quote:

Ron Dennis has conceded to a dispute with TAG Heuer CEO Jean-Claude Biver that resulted in the company jumping ship from McLaren to Red Bull.

...

Speaking before the Red Bull engine deal was announced Dennis said: "With regard to TAG Heuer, it was a brand we were associated with for a very long time, and we had equity involvement. I controlled the sales and marketing of that company in the early periods, I was a shareholder, it went through a variety of iterations, changes of ownership.

"Let's say the thread of history got pulled tighter and tighter, and the current chief executive and I fundamentally disagreed about some things. I didn't share his view on a radical approach to sponsorship that I felt was inappropriate for our brand.

"There was a particular moment in Monte Carlo I didn't feel was positive, so that thread was caught."

McLaren has since acquired another brand of the prestigious LVMH group in Chandon, with Dennis claiming the association to be "multiples more valuable than TAG Heuer".

Dubs
Mar 6, 2007

Stroll Own Zone.
Disregard Stroll outside zone.


LVMH(/ERS/ICE) owns Chandon and Tag Heauerer? who owns John Walker again?

Big Huski Boi
Jun 28, 2007

Huski Chocolate is a lifestyle, not only a product. It's about adventure & expedition. Living life to the fullest. It's a perfect recovery drink after training, because of the healthy carbohydrate and protein content, easy to digest and perfect for replenishing tired muscles.

Dubs posted:

LVMH(/ERS/ICE) owns Chandon and Tag Heauerer? who owns John Walker again?

diageo. scroll up.

dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008


Pillbug

Riso posted:

"multiples more valuable than TAG Heuer".

Hah, multiples more than zero is still zero.

Dubs
Mar 6, 2007

Stroll Own Zone.
Disregard Stroll outside zone.


I just cant keep up with all the sponsors leaving ron

dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008


Pillbug

Dubs posted:

P.Sure the power unit is a unit and ERS/ICE/KERS/HGST are all from renault and redbull didnt make their own ERS and poo poo?

You might be right, I think I misread the original article. RBR did do earlier versions of the ERS/KERS/whatever.

TJ13 posted:

Red Bull have previously demonstrated their expertise in KERS technology, as they provided the units which were bolted onto the Renault V8. Further, they developed the original energy store (ES), which was fitted to the Renault power unit inside the RB10. So it’s not out of the question that RBR have built on their previous experience in hybrid know how and invested in the R&D to deliver an MGU-H and Control Electronics unit. This is after all the organisation that crashed tested a new nose design more than 60 times to get it right.
From http://thejudge13.com/2015/11/06/re...-of-the-puzzle/

Dubs
Mar 6, 2007

Stroll Own Zone.
Disregard Stroll outside zone.


its worth noting that the red bull kers was a absolute piece of poo poo that barely ever worked

El Hefe
Oct 31, 2006

You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

So Toro Rosso gonna use 2015 Ferrari engines and Red Bull 2015 Renault engines?

the kentucky quid
Jan 19, 2014



Dubs posted:

I just cant keep up with all the sponsors leaving ron

It's pretty loving amazing how fast that whole empire fell apart. He had the best sponsorship portfolio in almost any sport never mind F1 and every single one of them just packed up and left overnight.

Dubs
Mar 6, 2007

Stroll Own Zone.
Disregard Stroll outside zone.


El Hefe posted:

So Toro Rosso gonna use 2015 Ferrari engines and Red Bull 2015 Renault engines?

nah bro


tag hwahwar engines



1500quidporsche posted:

It's pretty loving amazing how fast that whole empire fell apart. He had the best sponsorship portfolio in almost any sport never mind F1 and every single one of them just packed up and left overnight.

But now the have Eric Boulier so its all worth it

Big Huski Boi
Jun 28, 2007

Huski Chocolate is a lifestyle, not only a product. It's about adventure & expedition. Living life to the fullest. It's a perfect recovery drink after training, because of the healthy carbohydrate and protein content, easy to digest and perfect for replenishing tired muscles.

1500quidporsche posted:

It's pretty loving amazing how fast that whole empire fell apart. He had the best sponsorship portfolio in almost any sport never mind F1 and every single one of them just packed up and left overnight.

literally no lol

El Hefe
Oct 31, 2006

You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

I guess Bernie or RB paid a lot of money to Renault then, or made a lot of concessions so they could get back with their own team, otherwise I don't know why they even agreed to give them engines even if they are re-badged.

the kentucky quid
Jan 19, 2014



It wouldn't surprise me at all if Renault insisted on a gag order in the contract.

Rhopunzel
Jan 6, 2006

Stroll together, win together


Dubs posted:

LVMH(/ERS/ICE) owns Chandon and Tag Heauerer? who owns John Walker again?

f1

Dubs
Mar 6, 2007

Stroll Own Zone.
Disregard Stroll outside zone.


1500quidporsche posted:

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Renault insisted on a gag order in the contract.

I think this too. Red bull will never refer to Renault again, by the request of renault, after the poo poo metesxahaiz was talking all season

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Big Huski Boi
Jun 28, 2007

Huski Chocolate is a lifestyle, not only a product. It's about adventure & expedition. Living life to the fullest. It's a perfect recovery drink after training, because of the healthy carbohydrate and protein content, easy to digest and perfect for replenishing tired muscles.

El Hefe posted:

I guess Bernie or RB paid a lot of money to Renault then, or made a lot of concessions so they could get back with their own team, otherwise I don't know why they even agreed to give them engines even if they are re-badged.

supposedly ghosn was holding out for historical constructor payouts

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