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froward
Jun 2, 2014

catch me on the IRC, dogg



we must become the pitiless censors of ourselves

FISHFRIEND


My favorite times in TFR IRC is how often the channel turns to Making poo poo. Building furniture, casting lowers, rebuilding engines, buying tools, and bitching about Harbor Freight (IT'S REALLY BAD YOU GUYS).

This is a thread for Shop Talk about things we make, how to make them, bragging, and asking for help. THough the TFR DIY megathread is a project thread, the OP is never updated. The DIY subforum has megathreads for every autist hobby. It is my aim to make this thread a mix of useful reference and friendly chat.

If you would like to brag about your latest project, do so! Please be prepared to field annoying questions, like "what curing process did you use on that tabletop" and "how much would I have to shell out to get a tool setup to build one of those myself".

If you have interest/experience in a topic, and don't mind your name being on an Internal Watchlist, i will add you to a subheading below, because I am bad at remembering names and these lists help me, and I like to pretend they help others as well.

Other forum resources
* The TFR DIY megathread
* The DIY subforum
* shalafi4 machines a VSS

Metalworkers
* MohawkSatan - our canadian friend who is literally a machinist, will talk about tooling at length
* Action-Jesus - has actually made suppressors on his minilathe.
* Lathespin.gif
* PartsKit
* Shalafi4
* Anyone who claims to be

Equipment purchase & comparison
* https://littlemachineshop.com/ - LMS is all about benchtop machining.
* Victornet "Great balance of price and quality" - Fang

Learning how to use this poo poo
*mrpete222 AKA Tubalcain
*Keith Fenner
*Clickspring
*Tom Lipton of Ox Tool co.
*Marc L'ecuyer
*Tom's Techniques
*Abom79
*Keith Rucker
*Dale Derry, Metal Tips and Tricks
*Brad Jacob, Basement Shop Guy
-----

Rodrigo Diaz posted:

This is my shop.


Javid posted:

Another prototype iteration for the handi-rifle underlugs ft. a goon-donated castoff barrel:







My falloutest gun yet.


froward fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Sep 18, 2016

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MohawkSatan
Dec 20, 2008

by Cyrano4747


Ask me about machining. I will jerk off at length, with far more knowledge than any first year apprentice should ever be able to. Gun related poo poo? Motherfucker, I've been doing math and designs for guns since I was 14. I OBSESS OVER THIS poo poo.

Also literally waiting on RCMP replies to information requests so I can make goddamned guns legally.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

Don't let Lowtax go down with the ship. Do your part for these dead gay forums.


You forgot Lathespin.gif

Also I am not a machining whiz but I did an 80% AR lower on a Bridgeport once.

MrTuffPaws
Feb 7, 2005



MohawkSatan, any opinions on minimills? Worth it?

MohawkSatan
Dec 20, 2008

by Cyrano4747


MrTuffPaws posted:

MohawkSatan, any opinions on minimills? Worth it?

If you don't have the time, space, or cash for a full sized mill, yes. They can be freakishly solid little things. I've gotten a chance to play around with a HiTorque micromill and the thing was absurdly good for the price. IF you're wanting to make just small things, or have a little mill around for hobby work, then yeah, they're totally worth it. For a serious production shop, a full size mill is needed.

link to the mill I got to play with: http://littlemachineshop.com/produc...gory=1387807683

Only problems we had with it was the motor stalling out, but that took some serious effort. That said, I could make +-0.001" cuts all day on it without a problem, so you've got some good accuracy.

Was there anything specific you were thinking of doing with it?

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


Right now I'm waiting on a few things for my shapeoko 2 so I can finally get back to making stupid poo poo, both random project parts and stupid engravings from stuff made in Illustrator.

MrTuffPaws posted:

MohawkSatan, any opinions on minimills? Worth it?
Not him, but I have one. It sucks for metal working. Mild steel really stresses it, chatters like a mofo and the z axis drifts if you look at it funny. Works fine for plastic though!

When I was looking into a mill I was advised repeatedly to get something larger, like maybe something more along these lines for a starter:
http://grizzly.com/products/Drill-M...nch-Table/G0705

As you've probably guessed I skipped it because of the extra expense and weight I'd have to figure out how to deal with. Yeah, it's way more expensive, but seriously the mini mills as they come are a pile of crap. Only good thing is now you can get cnc conversions and other upgrades easily, but then you're already at the price of the above machine in total.

An alternative is lurking government auctions for a cheap Bridgeport, but expect to have to freight it and do some cleanup work. Also might have to wire in some heavier duty electrical outlets depending on what you've got currently.

Eventually I'll convert mine to CNC so I can at least try to do some aluminum and such, but seriously that's a purchase I've regretted for about 10 years now.

MohawkSatan
Dec 20, 2008

by Cyrano4747


Just out of curiosity, but what kind of minimill is yours Parts Kit? The only one I've worked with was solid, and from all reports others are solid too. Does yours have a solid colum? What kind of workholding setup are you using? Are you getting chatter regardless of speed/feed?

InterceptorV8
Mar 9, 2004

Loaded up and trucking.We gonna do what they say cant be done.

Parts Kit posted:

Right now I'm waiting on a few things for my shapeoko 2 so I can finally get back to making stupid poo poo, both random project parts and stupid engravings from stuff made in Illustrator.

Not him, but I have one. It sucks for metal working. Mild steel really stresses it, chatters like a mofo and the z axis drifts if you look at it funny. Works fine for plastic though!

When I was looking into a mill I was advised repeatedly to get something larger, like maybe something more along these lines for a starter:
http://grizzly.com/products/Drill-M...nch-Table/G0705

As you've probably guessed I skipped it because of the extra expense and weight I'd have to figure out how to deal with. Yeah, it's way more expensive, but seriously the mini mills as they come are a pile of crap. Only good thing is now you can get cnc conversions and other upgrades easily, but then you're already at the price of the above machine in total.

An alternative is lurking government auctions for a cheap Bridgeport, but expect to have to freight it and do some cleanup work. Also might have to wire in some heavier duty electrical outlets depending on what you've got currently.

Eventually I'll convert mine to CNC so I can at least try to do some aluminum and such, but seriously that's a purchase I've regretted for about 10 years now.

That's strange, I've even heard of guys getting good service from used Harbor Freight minimills.

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


MohawkSatan posted:

Just out of curiosity, but what kind of minimill is yours Parts Kit? The only one I've worked with was solid, and from all reports others are solid too. Does yours have a solid colum? What kind of workholding setup are you using? Are you getting chatter regardless of speed/feed?
Harbor Freight branded X2. I'm not sure on the column, it's a single piece of cast iron but it's the one that can tilt and the wandering is from the z-axis gears (yes even in fine adjustment). Also yeah, regardless of speeds/feeds. Might be the absurd backlash, that crappy screw drive is a good part of why I want to get a CNC conversion with an actual decent drive setup.

froward
Jun 2, 2014

catch me on the IRC, dogg



we must become the pitiless censors of ourselves

FISHFRIEND


quick reminder: do not buy anything from harbor freight, ever.

I bought some philips driver bits there, once. They twisted! TWISTED! I've had drivers shatter but never twist. Also a hammerdrill that poo poo itself after an hour of use.

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


Oddly enough their floor jacks and jackstands are fine. But yeah, drill bits, taps/dies, end mills, any cutting tool stay the gently caress away from.

Lathespin.gif
May 19, 2005


Pillbug

Total garbage tier small mills That Suck:










Actual small mills that Really Work and Are Good:













hope this helps!

Pimp Drakula
Oct 12, 2013



froward posted:

quick reminder: do not buy anything from harbor freight, ever.

I bought some philips driver bits there, once. They twisted! TWISTED! I've had drivers shatter but never twist. Also a hammerdrill that poo poo itself after an hour of use.

A flathead bit that came in a Wheeler gunsmithing driver kit I bought spun into a helix. Looks neato but less good for disassembling revolvers.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

I build and work on my own stuff. I don't have any real projects, but I have stuff that is broken or needs modifying, and I do it. Not sure where I fall in that metalwork/woodworking spectrum. My last 'project' was buying a $160 Harbor Freight tool cart for $20 because it had some rust and a busted top compartment. Some bedliner and pop rivets and it's as good as new.

I bounce between TFR and AI; I spend a lot of time working on other people's cars and selling auto parts.

Action Jesus
Jun 18, 2002



Lathespin.gif posted:

Total garbage tier small mills That Suck:


Actual small mills that Really Work and Are Good:


hope this helps!

This is what is making me just want to save and wait to get an old Bridgeport or something, I dearly wish for a mill but I have a hard time trusting any of the smaller ones.

I have a Grizzly G0765 7x14 benchtop lathe that works decently for it's small size. Compared to the other 7x Lathes, the Grizzly at least comes with a nice set of features out of the box like a super beefy tailstock, bigger motor, steady rest & faceplate, and DRO for the motor's RPMs. If/when something does gently caress up, you also have Grizzly's support, which is good. The variable speed feature is kind of debatable for me, it's nice to change speed on the fly but you really do lose torque on the low end, it would be better IMO to have the full rear end of the motor at like 70rpm for threading instead of just lowering its powerd (or shifting frequency or however that magic electric poo poo works) I've done a number of projects on this little lathe as well as basically teach myself how to turn and machine stuff.

As the OP (And I have in the DIY and NFA threads) mentioned, I did just complete a .22 silencer that I'm pretty pleased with. I have a series of writeups for it going up on the gunpositive.com blog.


the TLDR of a $600 7x14 benchtop lathe is that it's good to learn on, can keep rigidity if you keep the gibs and backlash in good adjustment, has enough power to cut most things (I work mostly in 4140, but have cut 17-4ph stainless, 6061 and 7075 AL, as well as other way softer materials like wood) but at the end of the day is a very small lathe.

Admiral Bosch
Apr 19, 2007
Who is Admiral Aken Bosch, and what is that old scoundrel up to?

Hello new thread! I don't profess to be any sort of expert, but I am a second year CNC machining student at one of the better regarded community colleges in my state. At my current level, I find that I learn more by asking questions online and observing others' work than I learn from my instructors. I will be watching this thread with keen interest. Youtube is easily one of the best resources around.

Also Lathespin.gif's stuff is mesmerizing.

Slung Blade
Jul 10, 2002

IN STEEL WE TRUST



froward posted:

The DIY subforum has megathreads for every autist hobby.

Taking time to leave my hugbox to say hello. DIY does have plenty of skilled machinists so don't be afraid to check in occasionally.

I really need a shop where I can put in a lathe and a mill.

sky shark
Jun 9, 2004

CHILD RAPE IS FINE WHEN I LIKE THE RAPIST

Reminder that most of the low end mills and lathes are built in the same factories in China.

Grizzly, Sieg, Harbor Freight's Central Machine and a couple others share parts commonality - in some cases the only difference is the paint:

https://littlemachineshop.com/info/...the_compare.php

https://littlemachineshop.com/info/minimill_compare.php

Little Machine Shop is a great resource for benchtop stuff.

CNCZone is a great resource for learning. As is SawmillCreek - which requires you to register with a "real" name.

I really want to mill and lathe stuff but have never learned and didn't take shop classes and the adult learning always starts before I get off from work and is across town. I need to join up with my local Maker group.

Action Jesus
Jun 18, 2002



sky shark posted:


I really want to mill and lathe stuff but have never learned and didn't take shop classes and the adult learning always starts before I get off from work and is across town. I need to join up with my local Maker group.

You'd be amazed what you can learn from these guys, all youtube machinists and most of them professionals and a couple of them (mrpete and marc l'ecuyer) are/were machine shop teachers.

mrpete222 AKA Tubalcain
Keith Fenner
Clickspring
Tom Lipton of Ox Tool co.
Marc L'ecuyer
Tom's Techniques
Abom79
Keith Rucker
Dale Derry, Metal Tips and Tricks
Brad Jacob, Basement Shop Guy

edit: forgot a couple. Seriously, YouTube has an amazing wealth of information, there are a number of welding experts/teachers you can learn from as well. Of course none of this substitutes first hand experience, but it goes a long way for machine theory and operation.

Action Jesus fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Dec 7, 2015

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


Slung Blade posted:

Taking time to leave my hugbox to say hello. DIY does have plenty of skilled machinists so don't be afraid to check in occasionally.

I really need a shop where I can put in a lathe and a mill.
I'm sure you can figure out some good way to spin it Mr. Mayor. Vote for Proposition Get Me a Shop I'm Bored!

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


Aw yes, the parts I needed for the shapeoko are in and preliminary tests are positive. Now to redo my g-code files and make a test piece.

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


Ran the machine and made two skateboard deck spacers. Works great so far, just need to recheck squareness of the z axis and then set up the fixtures properly.

The Hambulance
Apr 19, 2011



ASK ME ABOUT MY AWESOME STARTUP IDEA


Fun Shoe

Hooray! A thread that I can contribute something to! Been a machinist for 30 years. I've cut all sorts of common and exotic material on lathes and mills. Manual and CNC (I program them as well).

I don't have much experience with hobby machines, only the industrial stuff.

I have worked on guns and gun parts, but I am by no means a gunsmith.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



this is what my dining room table looks like rn



I also do a bunch of metal fabrication/welding/anything-that-isn't-milling stuff but I don't have any projects offhand that aren't jewelry trying to make some quick cash for Christmas.

Parts Kit posted:

Oddly enough their floor jacks and jackstands are fine. But yeah, drill bits, taps/dies, end mills, any cutting tool stay the gently caress away from.

Harbor Freight is just fine for most applications that don't need fancy metallurgy or other expensive materials, I've had many times more issues with the low-end brand name poo poo they sell at Home Depot. Nothing they sell holds a candle to professional-grade equipment but not every clamp and corded drill in your workshop gotta be $3000 precision machined tungsten from 1940.

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Dec 8, 2015

Lathespin.gif
May 19, 2005


Pillbug

Somewhere in a box I should still have a ~5/16" harbor freight tap, it turned itself into a helical flute tap after one attempted use... After it twisted up into a pretzel deforming itself to the ID of the hole (and managing to get it back out!) we tried striking it with a nearby old, mostly dead file, just to check...

Fuckers dead soft steel, the teeth come right off without a squeak. If there's one place to cheap out on it's not taps. Dear lord ain't no pain like a broken tap in an otherwise finished part.

That said, Horrible Fright sometimes has lil' HSS lathe bit sets for cheap, in case you need a few small tool bits. Doesn't seem any worse than the typical enco/msc cheap import HSS under light use, and not every tool needs to be 8% cobalt/rex aaa/momax (but you should try)

Don't even think about their brazed carbide lathe tools though, that poo poo is irredeemable hot piss garbage.

Their drill bit sets run from 'meh' to 'unusable trash' from bit to bit, for a home shop getting a master index jobber set on sale and planning to sharpen as you go/replace any commonly used sizes with Real Drills wouldn't be the worst idea, but seriously save up another 50-100 bucks and at least get hertel drills. #1 machining operation: drilling holes. Buy Good Drills.

The end mills are usable for parts you don't care about much, whacking through rust/scale/slag, and learning with. They'll probably have poo poo geometry, the metallurgy, grind, and heat treat are of questionable parentage, they are more likely to snap off and scar your part and make you turn the air blue, and they don't cut good. If you want to zap some rust off a rough part, or are just starting out and don't want to break/chip the nice niagara/OSG cutters playing around with some 6061 or whatever they'll do the job for a short while.

The calipers are accurate enough for calipers but suck hardcore if you've ever used better. Seriously, they feel and handle like a piece of poo. They also suck batteries like mad. They're decent enough to leave on a grinding room bench, though

The screwdrivers are poo poo. Buy wiha, or xcelite, or good quality flatground good drivers for Gun Stuff, or dear gods below at least some stanley/craftsman before that horrible garbage.

Their rolling toolboxes and tool carts are surprisingly pretty much the best deal out there, short of spending way too much money at the tool truck or getting lucky on craigslist. Rumor has it they sourced the old snap-on box drawings from somewhere. They use pretty heavy gauge steel, the drawers are solid, and the casters are pretty good. Basically way better than anything from sears/home depot/etc these days, and pretty much on par with a decent snap-on chest.


I've also heard good things about their 'welding required, no plan included hydraulic press kit' or as they like to market it, 'engine hoist'.

Lathespin.gif
May 19, 2005


Pillbug

...also sheesh that was a lot of words, so here's some disorganized shop porn



























Fang
Jul 9, 2001
If you don't think ponderous, clumsy sentence structure loaded with hamfisted thesaurus wankery makes good writing, you're probably just too dumb to read my posts.

/r/iamverysmart

lathespin.gif, I appreciate your experience and devotion to quality, but you're giving some bad advice that will turn people off a great hobby. It's easy to do good work with a mini-mill, provided its limitations are taken into account. There are obviously limits on work size and positioning, and the reduced rigidity makes the setup less forgiving of incorrect speeds and feeds, or dull cutters. This makes mini-mills harder for beginners (and probably frustrating for those used to bigger and better things), but they're far from useless. I used a Little Machine Shop mini-mill to machine a FAL casting; although it took some creative setups and stretched the machine to the limit of its dimensions and capabilities, it was still possible.

And rather than talk about which tools are lovely, can we instead share the stuff that does a good job at an affordable price? I've found Victornet to provide a great combination of price and quality. I do have to warn people about http://www.the-carbide-end-mill-store.com though; I had one long end mill pull itself out of the collet while face milling due to a very slightly undersized shank.

Lathespin.gif
May 19, 2005


Pillbug

Yeah, I've heard good things about the upgraded/cleaned up LMS machines, but I've never run one myself. Seems the way to go if you truly don't have the room for anything larger, and can't source a little clausing/rockwell mill or something like it. The thing is, if you're spending 500-1k+ on an import benchtop machine you're already getting close to used bridgeport territory... Paying scrap prices for a well-used machine isn't that unusual, if you can manage to be in the right place at the right time. Of course you need somewhere to put it, probably 220v service, and moving them around is a hell of a job.

Mini-mills have their place, and yeah with small/light cuts you can get good results, I shouldn't be too hard on 'em for home garage use. The last one I used was super clapped out and beaten up and was simply maddening to run.

Tooling!

lakeshorecarbide.com has some cool stuff, like variable helix zrn end mills. Prices are pretty dang good too.

enco's atrax end mills are pretty good, miles better than the no-name stuff and cheap- like six bucks for a double end 1/8" carbide end mill is nice. Never pay full price for enco, you can always find 20-30% off or better codes online.

lyndex 5c collets are solid, and totally worth the extra over the house brand

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


Uploading to Imgur is actually working for me now so here are the super duper complex risers I made last night.



It's just nice having that drat machine work.

The junk collector
Aug 10, 2005
Hey do you want that motherboard?

Lathespin.gif posted:

Somewhere in a box I should still have a ~5/16" harbor freight tap, it turned itself into a helical flute tap after one attempted use... After it twisted up into a pretzel deforming itself to the ID of the hole (and managing to get it back out!) we tried striking it with a nearby old, mostly dead file, just to check...

Fuckers dead soft steel, the teeth come right off without a squeak. If there's one place to cheap out on it's not taps. Dear lord ain't no pain like a broken tap in an otherwise finished part.

That said, Horrible Fright sometimes has lil' HSS lathe bit sets for cheap, in case you need a few small tool bits. Doesn't seem any worse than the typical enco/msc cheap import HSS under light use, and not every tool needs to be 8% cobalt/rex aaa/momax (but you should try)

Their rolling toolboxes and tool carts are surprisingly pretty much the best deal out there, short of spending way too much money at the tool truck or getting lucky on craigslist. Rumor has it they sourced the old snap-on box drawings from somewhere. They use pretty heavy gauge steel, the drawers are solid, and the casters are pretty good. Basically way better than anything from sears/home depot/etc these days, and pretty much on par with a decent snap-on chest.

I bought a set of HF taps and dies to use on aluminum rod for some small art projects. The taps worked ok but the die threads were all miscut and they could literally do nothing.

I've bought their lathe tools, good to practice sharpening and shaping so you don't ruin nice blanks.

Their tool boxes are mixed. They seem to have 2 models of everything one of which is total poo poo and one that is pretty decent. Check out the model in the store of the one you intend to buy before you buy it.

I have a Grizzly mill in my garage these days. I haven't had it for too long but it was as big as I could get on a 15A 120V house line and I can run it in my townhouse and it works great cutting aluminum all day long. I would love to pick up an old bridgeport or equivalent, but most people like me cant move, store, or power one.

froward
Jun 2, 2014

catch me on the IRC, dogg



we must become the pitiless censors of ourselves

FISHFRIEND


Fang posted:

And rather than talk about which tools are lovely, can we instead share the stuff that does a good job at an affordable price? I've found Victornet to provide a great combination of price and quality. I do have to warn people about http://www.the-carbide-end-mill-store.com, though; I had one long end mill pull itself out of the collet while face milling due to a very slightly undersized shank.

thank you for linking instead of just name dropping! and providing references to useful resources! it's fun & easy to bitch about stuff; it's more difficult to provide useful information to others.

MrTuffPaws
Feb 7, 2005



Is there a visual primer to what's what's for mill bits?

Lathespin.gif
May 19, 2005


Pillbug

I'll try to take a few pics next time I'm organizing end mills, but off the cuff and leeching from google images: Typically an 1/8"-3/4" or so shank for most smaller mills, single or double ended, HSS is cheaper than carbide, 2 or 3 flutes for aluminum, 3 or 4+ flutes for steels and hard stuff, always use as short a cutter as is practical.







http://www.mcmaster.com/#end-mills/

Lathespin.gif
May 19, 2005


Pillbug

so I had to babysit a process at work and had 45 mins to kill, not really enough time to get into any of the main projects on the list tho.

just enough time to make a widget. first things first, PPE:



grab some 2" aluminum slugs and a bandsaw



skim the face



dat elusive perfect finish pass chipflow



give it some chamfers and make that poo poo groovy



needs something in the middle, I think... about an inch with a nice radius. hello old friend!



I should really finish turning that mortar someday.

anyway, figure 1/2" deep for that 1" diameter. drill at like 1/4" or 5/16" or whatevs, approx .475" deep. load end mill, set to center height by eye.



tweak crossfeed centerline for equal chipflow to find center



done, chamfer that poo poo



flip it, and relieve the bottom center about .030"-.050" deep, leaving about a 1/4" rim on the OD. this will make it sit flat in the benchtop mo bettah.



looks good



TO THE MILL



centerfind, load a L/.290" drill, set up for a 30* hole pattern on a .750" radius. set quill stop at around .700" deep. do it.



do it some more



around once more to add some chamfers



ta-da!





PEW PEW PEW

Lathespin.gif fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Feb 18, 2016

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

This thread is fantastic. I picked up a Grizzly Mill Drill for super cheap and I have a JET 920N that is missing its motor, belt tensioner and gear set. Eventually I'd like to convert it to run on a treadmill motor but it's slow going at the moment.

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


I really, really need to suck it up and get myself a basic MIG welder. Keep running into stuff I want to do that I can't and a MIG and a decent chopsaw would make a breeze.

djdanno13
Apr 20, 2004

Killing Nazi Zombies since June 14 1775



I would probably suggest the Hobart 140. Runs off of 110 and make sure you pick up some argon gas to go with it. Don't ever ever use that Flux core poo poo if you can help it. I think I had roughly $700 in my whole setup by the time I was done but my memory might be fuzzy.

Lathespin.gif
May 19, 2005


Pillbug

sounds about right, stargold gas is nice stuff for mig if you can swing it.

if you have somewhere to keep it and 220v, you could always get a good old stick welder for 100 bucks or so, just the thing for angle iron frames and such:



also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMmbj0GdSr4

don't wear rings

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.



I always wondered how potato chips were made.

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Alex P Corn
Jun 4, 2005

be careful what you dream for

SOMEBODY SERIOUSLY SPENT TEN BUCKS ON THIS


That's some Red Green poo poo right there.

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