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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:I would assume they just played the odds and didn't actually care who had the pagers, figuring enough would be Hezbollah. And really, why would Israel give a poo poo if some random civilians or medics blow up into the bargain. The tweet in the screenshot doesn't say anything about exploding pagers, as far as I can tell. E: To be clear, I'm not aware of anything else he could be referring to, so it can easily be about pagers. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Sep 17, 2024 |
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Sep 17, 2024 16:20
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Paladinus posted:The tweet in the screenshot doesn't say anything about exploding pagers, as far as I can tell. You may be missing Topaz Luk’s comment about how the initial tweet hasn’t aged well? Although Luk left the administration months ago, it’s unlikely he would know anything. The Twitter account posting that is also saying the US Air Force may have done the attack by flying a plane that can hack pagers about 150 miles off the coast of Lebanon, so they seem prone to just making stuff up. Neon Belly fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Sep 17, 2024 |
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Sep 17, 2024 16:27
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Neon Belly posted:You may be missing Topaz Luk’s comment about how the initial tweet hasn’t aged well? Although Luk left the administration months ago, it’s unlikely he would know anything. No, I got that part. It's just there can be some other 'moves in the North' that I'm not aware of. It's also a good point that he's not in the admin anymore. He probably just assumed, like everyone else. I saw the hacking thing elsewhere and decided that it didn't sound very believable. Even if those pagers had a self-destruct function, it wouldn't be it exploding and killing everyone around, but something like frying the chip and and the memory card. Like, you would want it to go off by mistake, especially if it apparently can be activated remotely. So someone's definitely tampered with them.
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Sep 17, 2024 16:40
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TheRat posted:I think we'd all tut and roll our eyes if a spy movie had 150 pagers with explosives go off at the same time. The entire thing is beyond bonkers. "Going off at the same time" is exactly what pagers are designed to do and "Clandestinely intercept and modify electronics" is exactly the kind of thing that spy agencies like Mossad and the CIA do regularly. I'm completely unsurprised by this.
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Sep 17, 2024 17:11
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TheRat posted:I think we'd all tut and roll our eyes if a spy movie had 150 pagers with explosives go off at the same time. The entire thing is beyond bonkers. Current reports are 2800 injuries, I'm guessing it's more than 150 pagers.
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Sep 17, 2024 17:20
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KillHour posted:"Going off at the same time" is exactly what pagers are designed to do and "Clandestinely intercept and modify electronics" is exactly the kind of thing that spy agencies like Mossad and the CIA do regularly. I'm completely unsurprised by this. I mean, I'm not surprised Mossad has the capacity to do something like this either, but I didn't exactly have "Pagers exploded a bunch of people" on my bingo card here.
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Sep 17, 2024 17:20
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Did mossad infiltrate Lebanons only pager repair shop? Like, this is the first time I thought of pagers in eons. Is Hezbollah the last holdout on pagers? Mossad seems way more competent than the IDF
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Sep 17, 2024 17:28
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wzm posted:Current reports are 2800 injuries, I'm guessing it's more than 150 pagers. Depends on the blast radius of pagers going off in crowded areas i suppose. Either way, it's sheer state-sponsored terrorism, which Israel is allowed to do, as a treat
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Sep 17, 2024 17:36
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Hezbollah was using pagers since they're theoretically harder to track. And Mossad (like thr IDF) is way better at mayhem and murder than it's supposed job of intelligence- they refused to believe all the info they were getting about October 7, for example
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Sep 17, 2024 17:37
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I'm stumped figuring out how this many people are getting injured/killed by a pager. Have they been secretly getting explosive laden units sent in to the country and distributed? Are they triggering some sort of insane runaway reaction in the (assumably LiOn) batteries?
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Sep 17, 2024 17:50
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Kammat posted:I'm stumped figuring out how this many people are getting injured/killed by a pager. Have they been secretly getting explosive laden units sent in to the country and distributed? Are they triggering some sort of insane runaway reaction in the (assumably LiOn) batteries? Intercepting a shipment or several is the only plausible way, even if you can get a battery to melt down it just burns really fast instead of going off like a hand grenade
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Sep 17, 2024 17:52
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StashAugustine posted:Intercepting a shipment or several is the only plausible way, even if you can get a battery to melt down it just burns really fast instead of going off like a hand grenade Could have also been a Trojan horse kind of situation, where a shipment originating in Israel was disguised as a donation from a wealthy supporter.
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Sep 17, 2024 18:02
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Did mossad infiltrate Lebanons only pager repair shop? Like, this is the first time I thought of pagers in eons. Is Hezbollah the last holdout on pagers? Medical staff still use them widely I believe. Which would probably be seen as a huge bonus for Israel to be honest.
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Sep 17, 2024 18:21
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Reddit detectives working hard. Maybe wait for actual information?
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Sep 17, 2024 18:22
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https://x.com/lowkey0nline/status/1836083424702194070?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q https://x.com/ejmalrai/status/1836059048115839192?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q Looks like Israel got Motorola to let it build miniature bombs into a pager shipment to Lebanon? Jeeesus.
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Sep 17, 2024 18:37
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Is it possible Motorola didn't know the devices were tampered with and may have just thought it was a shipment being held up in customs? Or Israel bought them with a false pretense, modified them, then passed them on to channels that would lead them to Lebanon? This is insane.
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Sep 17, 2024 19:04
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Watch Motorola get banned from half the world. Great move boys. They probably thought eh, they're just gonna put some bugs in the receivers, no worries!
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Sep 17, 2024 19:05
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Darth Walrus posted:https://x.com/lowkey0nline/status/1836083424702194070?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q It's not Motorala, the pagers are from Gold Apollo, a company from Taiwan
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Sep 17, 2024 19:09
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Scam Likely posted:Is it possible Motorola didn't know the devices were tampered with and may have just thought it was a shipment being held up in customs? Or Israel bought them with a false pretense, modified them, then passed them on to channels that would lead them to Lebanon? This is insane. I highly doubt that Motorola or whoever made the pager was involved in this directly. But it's not clear where or how Israel 'confiscated and held' the shipment. E: So not Motorola, it looks like. Once again, I would urge everyone to pay attention to what sources they cite. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Sep 17, 2024 |
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Sep 17, 2024 19:14
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Failed Imagineer posted:Depends on the blast radius of pagers going off in crowded areas i suppose. Either way, it's sheer state-sponsored terrorism, which Israel is allowed to do, as a treat I've seen the videos and it's lots of people getting their fingers blown off or popping of into their side, depending on where the pager is was at the time. Explosives-wise, it's like a firecracker going off either in someone's hand and close to the face or up against the torso or thigh. It's enough to severely injure an adult carrying one (or kill a child), but not an immediate threat to everyone around. I think the most major issue is that the size and distribution of the explosions. It's not sure how much damage this really caused to Hezbollah, but its clear that almost 3000 incidents ("hundreds" is the number that Western media is claiming, but I've seen a couple dozen), that many of these are innocent and unconnected Lebanese people. I think that there was a thought the pagers were distributed internally to Hezbollah members but it's clear that's not the case. The Iranian ambassador to Lebanon getting pager-bombed also feels like that's an international incident. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Sep 17, 2024 |
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Sep 17, 2024 19:32
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I've googled and can't find much (thanks google) is there any precedent for something like this occurring? Have hundreds of communication devices (or any devices) ever simultaneously exploded?
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Sep 17, 2024 19:54
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Young Freud posted:I've seen the videos and it's lots of people getting their fingers blown off or popping of into their side, depending on where the pager is was at the time. Explosives-wise, it's like a firecracker going off either in someone's hand and close to the face or up against the torso or thigh. It's enough to severely injure an adult carrying one (or kill a child), but not an immediate threat to everyone around. 2-3 grams of high-explosive are a lot more significant than a firecracker going off. If you put that much high explosive where a pager normally goes (in your front pocket or clipped on to the front of your belt) it could easily sever major arteries and be fatal. Tumble fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Sep 17, 2024 |
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Sep 17, 2024 20:44
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Sky Cracks Open posted:I've googled and can't find much (thanks google) is there any precedent for something like this occurring? Have hundreds of communication devices (or any devices) ever simultaneously exploded? It's a classic Israeli intelligence trick, first used against Black September leader Mahmoud Hamshar in the Operation Wrath Of God retaliatory attacks by Mossad and in 1996 against Hamas bombmaker Yahya Ayyash by Shin Bet. This is the same style attack but on a larger scale.
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Sep 17, 2024 20:47
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Just watched a live interview on UK Ch4 news with some brigadier-general IDF spokesman, who essentially claimed responsibility on Israels behalf, and stated that Israel was ready for war with Iran in response to a leading question. Enter the Cool Zone.
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Sep 17, 2024 21:05
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Darth Walrus posted:https://x.com/lowkey0nline/status/1836083424702194070?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q I don't understand how they can do this and be sure that some of that shipment isn't gonna go to non-hesbola civilians. i mean, I do, they don't care all that much. And they killed and injured scores of civilians.
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Sep 17, 2024 22:01
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mrfart posted:I don't understand how they can do this and be sure that some of that shipment isn't gonna go to non-hesbola civilians. It occurs to me part of this operation would be having a mole to convince Hezbollah to distribute these. You don't just tell the whole organization "hey grab these pagers they're cheap and cool you should all use them", someone well connected enough to both know who to talk to and how to get the decision agreed to had to have instigated this distribution. The real sucky part is, if Israel did have such a mole, a similar technique could have been used against Hamas which would have both been better at targeting Hamas individuals without, you know, levelling Gaza with WW2 quantities of explosives.
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Sep 17, 2024 22:12
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mrfart posted:I don't understand how they can do this and be sure that some of that shipment isn't gonna go to non-hesbola civilians. i mean stuxnet caused a ton of collateral damage across the world by opening backdoors on random devices as it spread to the target devices. this is just bringing that mentatlity into the physical world
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Sep 17, 2024 22:17
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mrfart posted:I don't understand how they can do this and be sure that some of that shipment isn't gonna go to non-hesbola civilians. I'm certain that's what they thought and they never bothered to think of the consequences. Apparently, these "pagers" are more like mini networked radios that allow two-way text communications. I can see that being popular among people in an area that might have disruptions in cellular service, regardless if they belong to Hezbollah or not.
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Sep 17, 2024 23:01
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i mean stuxnet caused a ton of collateral damage across the world by opening backdoors on random devices as it spread to the target devices. this is just bringing that mentatlity into the physical world Do you have a source? My understanding was that Stuxnet was incredibly targeted to Siemen’s hardware and even had a self-destruct timer. Or do you mean it led to developments like DQ?
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Sep 17, 2024 23:11
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Orthanc6 posted:It occurs to me part of this operation would be having a mole to convince Hezbollah to distribute these. You don't just tell the whole organization "hey grab these pagers they're cheap and cool you should all use them", someone well connected enough to both know who to talk to and how to get the decision agreed to had to have instigated this distribution. It's much more likely that some friendly-to-Israel country found out about a supplier to Hezbollah (probably via sanctions investigations) and had the pagers intercepted instead of charging the supplier. This is something the US and China have both done with networking/computer equipment, although it's the first time that I'm aware of where the modifications were to make them into a bomb instead of some kind of backdoor. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa-upgrade-factory-show-cisco-router-getting-implant/ KillHour fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Sep 17, 2024 |
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Sep 17, 2024 23:33
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The BBC article on it said that the victims included very old people, very young, and healthcare workers. The young included children of Hezbollah members. Seems like Israel didn't necessarily go for pagers they knew were going to Hezbollah, but rather just a big shipment of pagers on the idea that most of the people in Lebanon who use pagers will be in Hezbollah and if they kill some on-call doctors and nurses, that's just a nice bit of bonus terrorism.
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Sep 18, 2024 04:05
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It is wild that we are avoiding WW3 because Iran and Lebanon are intentionally avoiding war while the western press shits on then constantly
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Sep 18, 2024 04:38
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Jimbozig posted:The BBC article on it said that the victims included very old people, very young, and healthcare workers. The young included children of Hezbollah members. If Hezbollah gave the pagers away at all, people need to remember that they basically run government services in southern Lebanon. They may have handed out pagers to vulnerable people like the old and school kids to provide up-to-date information at times that the cellular network could be down (like a war). Fake Edit: Reuters is reporting that the batch imported into Lebanon was 5,000. Also, Gold Apollo is saying that they didn't manufacture the phones, but an European company with a license made them, but won't release the name and location of the company. Even more suspect, the Lebanese government is saying that they believe the bomb installation was done at the production level. https://www.reuters.com/world/middl..._source=twitter
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Sep 18, 2024 04:43
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Young Freud posted:If Hezbollah gave the pagers away at all, people need to remember that they basically run government services in southern Lebanon. They may have handed out pagers to vulnerable people like the old and school kids to provide up-to-date information at times that the cellular network could be down (like a war). Manufacturers name is out. Thousands of pagers to first responders and front line medical, gently caress that’s awful.
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Sep 18, 2024 05:09
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RoboBoogie posted:Manufacturers name is out. Thousands of pagers to first responders and front line medical, gently caress that’s awful. BAC has practically opened themselves up to some major consequences, regardless of where they're located.
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Sep 18, 2024 05:46
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RoboBoogie posted:Manufacturers name is out. Thousands of pagers to first responders and front line medical, gently caress that’s awful. Where are you reading this? I've seen the name dropped -- BAC -- but the reporting I was reading hadn't been able to find any further details about the company.
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Sep 18, 2024 05:49
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Yawgmoft posted:It is wild that we are avoiding WW3 because Iran and Lebanon are intentionally avoiding war while the western press shits on then constantly That's something that terrifies me, Lebanon just got struck by a large scale terror attack and if they do anything in retaliation then the region is absolutely hosed.
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Sep 18, 2024 07:31
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Jimbozig posted:Seems like Israel didn't necessarily go for pagers they knew were going to Hezbollah, but rather just a big shipment of pagers on the idea that most of the people in Lebanon who use pagers will be in Hezbollah and if they kill some on-call doctors and nurses, that's just a nice bit of bonus terrorism. Not sure this is true from my reading of the news stories. The official Hezbollah statement is "pagers belonging to employees of various Hezbollah units and institutions exploded", and the various stories describe the victims as either Hezbollah members or family/close contacts of Hezbollah members. So it does seem like this was specifically targeted at pagers going to Hezbollah members. Of course that can still maim or kill medical staff employed by Hezbollah, or bystanders like the 10 year old daughter of the Hezbollah member.
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Sep 18, 2024 08:09
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oxford_town posted:Not sure this is true from my reading of the news stories. The official Hezbollah statement is "pagers belonging to employees of various Hezbollah units and institutions exploded", and the various stories describe the victims as either Hezbollah members or family/close contacts of Hezbollah members. If I understood correctly, the bomb was detonated by a message that seemed to come from headquarters. So there might be a lot of people walking around with a bomb in their pager, but they didn't get the specific message? I wouldn't go near a pager anymore if I was in Lebanon.
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Sep 18, 2024 08:36
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Darth Walrus posted:https://x.com/lowkey0nline/status/1836083424702194070?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q Can the community note show up after you've posted this? It says right in there that it wasn't Motorola. Not trying to be accusatory I figure I'm missing something.
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