Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Flavor Truck
Nov 5, 2007

My Love for You is like a Truck


LAWSUIT

EOTech got sued by the federal government because they lied about their dot shifting in extreme temperatures and settled for $25.6 million. In addition to this, they are offering FULL REFUNDS +$15 for shipping costs if you complete a form on their website. On the form, be sure to mention that you are requesting a refund and list the price you paid for the optic.

Click here to read the article

Click here to get your money back

I bought an EOTech 512 from a friend who won it at a SWAT convention and was very satisfied with it. It held zero very well and I've used it regularly. As a result of the lawsuit, the company I work for no longer authorizes EOTech, so I've got to make the switch to Aimpoint. I'm basically getting a free upgrade to a better optic because I only paid $300 for the 512.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

right arm
Oct 29, 2011



They used the wrong RAM

charliebravo77
Jun 11, 2003



Looks like I might turn my 512.A65 into a G43

E2M2
Mar 2, 2007

Ain't No Thang.

When do Eotechs plummet in price?

Darth Freddy
Feb 6, 2007

An Emperor's slightest dislike is transmitted to those who serve him, and there it is amplified into rage.

Bought one that turned out to be fake, wonder if I can return that one to them and get my money back.

Warbadger
Jun 17, 2006


Was about to sell mine anyways to go toward house stuff. Giving it a shot.

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

Darth Freddy posted:

Bought one that turned out to be fake, wonder if I can return that one to them and get my money back.

Well it might go by unnoticed in the avalanche of returned optics, but that would be pretty unethical.

I wonder what they are going to do with them all, can't really refurb a inherently defective design.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



ZebraBlade posted:

Well it might go by unnoticed in the avalanche of returned optics, but that would be pretty unethical.

Standup ethics aren't really what got Eotech in this mess.

Flavor Truck
Nov 5, 2007

My Love for You is like a Truck


ZebraBlade posted:

Well it might go by unnoticed in the avalanche of returned optics, but that would be pretty unethical.

I wonder what they are going to do with them all, can't really refurb a inherently defective design.

Plantronics once had a system where you'd complete a form online and just say that your $100 headset broke, and they'd send you one NIB without asking questions.

djdanno13
Apr 20, 2004

Killing Nazi Zombies since June 14 1775



I'm glad, I knew these sights were flawed back in 2009 when my warrant officers personal eotech fell apart by just sitting in the weapons rack in our shack in Iraq. I seem to remember some people poo pooing me when I stated the same back then too.

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



Apparently the refunds are in the form of gift certificates according to m4c.net



edit: Apparently a possible photoshop?

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


The Rat posted:

Apparently the refunds are in the form of gift certificates according to m4c.net



edit: Apparently a possible photoshop?

it's certainly grainy enough to feed most of ethiopia

Flavor Truck
Nov 5, 2007

My Love for You is like a Truck


The Rat posted:

Apparently the refunds are in the form of gift certificates according to m4c.net



edit: Apparently a possible photoshop?

I've read that EOTech has already set aside quite a bit of money on this, so that's probably a fake.

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010


Bad Dog

Fake and not a legal form of refund (the expiration date alone is a no-no)

stik
Apr 19, 2008



I've got an old 551 that I bought used. I think it was made in 2007, think they'll give me money for it? If so, how much? I can't remember what I paid for it, bought it in a parking lot off craigslist.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Haha, I know L3 is a defense company but it sounds like EOtech is owned by a phone company.

Wa11y
Jul 23, 2002

Did I say "cookies?" I meant, "Fire in your face!"

Shaocaholica posted:

Haha, I know L3 is a defense company but it sounds like EOtech is owned by a phone company.

I had the same reaction when I saw that cert. "L3 Communications? Isn't that a telco?" I actually had to search L3 and found out it's NOT Level 3, but the actual company that owns EOTech.

Paper Diamonds
Sep 2, 2011


Am I reading this correctly?

soldiersystems.net posted:

The PMO has noted a +/- 4 MOA shift at -40 Deg F and 122 Deg F. Second, is the concern over the claim by EOTech that their HWS are parallax free which was the subject of a previous Safety of Use Message from the same office issued 16 March, 2015.
So if I have a 512 that I like and don't plan on shooting in -41(-) or 123(+) temperatures ever, should I ask for a refund?

Paper Diamonds fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Dec 10, 2015

SanitysEdge
Jul 28, 2005


I wonder if the production date makes a difference? A significant majority of the 512s made in 2011 passed though my hands. Clearly if those ones are broken then the design is bad - its not my fault.

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010


Bad Dog

123 degrees? drat, that's pretty bad. You can gently caress up your Eotech leaving it in the car for an hour on an 85 degree day?

Scarecrow411
Nov 14, 2004

FREE FUNSTER


Paper Diamonds posted:

Am I reading this correctly?

So if I have a 512 that I like and don't plan on shooting in -41(-) or 123(+) temperatures ever, should I ask for a refund?

The CTO replied that the “sight would have [a] problem at -40 deg even at 1x due
to excessive parallax error” and that “[t]he parallax error even at 32 deg F is 12 moa, at 5 deg F (the
temperature outside right now) is > 20 moa. . . . It is not an acceptable performance. People have
to know what need[s] to be done so they can start planning for it. . . . Sometimes the truth is the best
answer.”

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

Suddenly feeling justified in paying a bit more to get an aimpoint instead of eotech.

buuuuut, I don't shoot often enough anymore to justify the aimpoint

Snowman Crossing
Dec 4, 2009



Paper Diamonds posted:

Am I reading this correctly?

So if I have a 512 that I like and don't plan on shooting in -41(-) or 123(+) temperatures ever, should I ask for a refund?

Yes. Your optic is basically poo poo from an anus. Get a refund and buy an Aimpoint

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Paper Diamonds posted:

Am I reading this correctly?

So if I have a 512 that I like and don't plan on shooting in -41(-) or 123(+) temperatures ever, should I ask for a refund?

If you like it, go with your gut. I'd personally dump it but I do go shooting in -20 weather on the regular. And my Aimpoint PRO has never given a single gently caress.

I eats my spinach
Jan 16, 2005

'sup gordon

I just grabbed the carbine with the 512 mounted to try and decide if I should get a refund, when I removed the batteries both spring contact terminals came out with the AAs. thanks for making the decision so simple all of a sudden, L3

I eats my spinach fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Dec 11, 2015

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



Professor Awesome posted:

I just grabbed the carbine with the 512 mounted to try and decide if I should get a refund, when I removed the batteries both spring contact terminals came out with the AAs. thanks for making the decision so simple all of a sudden, L3

Not the first time I've seen that happen. Happened to some of the 512s in my company from my first contract.

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata


lol

Paper Diamonds
Sep 2, 2011


Butch Cassidy posted:

If you like it, go with your gut. I'd personally dump it but I do go shooting in -20 weather on the regular. And my Aimpoint PRO has never given a single gently caress.
Sent in the RMA request today. Now for the waiting game.

I did my "research" before buying my 512 and of all the bad things I heard about dimness, striping, de-lamination, lovely battery units, and even the sights just ceasing to function, I never saw anyone complain about wandering zero. So while I wait for this RMA I ask all you people with more extensive knowledge than me: Do other sights have "thermal drift" issues? It's never been something I've really heard of, but just conceptually thinking about an aluminum tube with a reticle inside either etched or projected, wouldn't the metal expand/contract by some amount in varying temperatures? For that matter would a barrel have a similar problem?

ThinkFear
Sep 14, 2007



What was the original MSRP for the 511? $450?

sky shark
Jun 9, 2004

CHILD RAPE IS FINE WHEN I LIKE THE RAPIST

As a former Eotech dealer I'm sitting here looking at 10 pieces wondering how I should be handle getting money out of them.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



sky shark posted:

As a former Eotech dealer I'm sitting here looking at 10 pieces wondering how I should be handle getting money out of them.

Call and ask? Your company did purchase them so should probably get the same consideration as Uncle Sam and private purchasers.

sky shark
Jun 9, 2004

CHILD RAPE IS FINE WHEN I LIKE THE RAPIST

Eotech apparently is only open on every other Friday of the month, so I'll have to call on Monday

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


So did this all get found out by government users or did the private community discover the same issues?

sky shark
Jun 9, 2004

CHILD RAPE IS FINE WHEN I LIKE THE RAPIST

Shaocaholica posted:

So did this all get found out by government users or did the private community discover the same issues?

FBI HRT apparently discovered it through testing.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


sky shark posted:

FBI HRT apparently discovered it through testing.

Ha, that's not a dept. I would have though that did this testing. I guess the military just takes these companies for their word?

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007


Hair Elf

Shaocaholica posted:

I guess the military just takes these companies for their word?
That and kickbacks

Styles Bitchley
Nov 13, 2004

FOR THE WIN FOR THE WIN FOR THE WIN

Submitted RMA refund request for my 2006 built 512.


Paper Diamonds posted:

Sent in the RMA request today. Now for the waiting game.

I did my "research" before buying my 512 and of all the bad things I heard about dimness, striping, de-lamination, lovely battery units, and even the sights just ceasing to function, I never saw anyone complain about wandering zero. So while I wait for this RMA I ask all you people with more extensive knowledge than me: Do other sights have "thermal drift" issues? It's never been something I've really heard of, but just conceptually thinking about an aluminum tube with a reticle inside either etched or projected, wouldn't the metal expand/contract by some amount in varying temperatures? For that matter would a barrel have a similar problem?

It will be interesting to see if this prompts higher scrutiny in other such optics, and if so what the findings would be. As far as the failure mode, I guess it really depends on the design and use of materials. No doubt a barrel expands, but due to the shape of it would be mostly linear(stretches) I would think. I know I can take a steel 4" precision gage block at 68°F, measure it to 0.00001" resolution and if I hold it in my hand for a minute it will be a few ten thousands of an inch longer, which is pretty significant.

Shaocaholica posted:

Ha, that's not a dept. I would have though that did this testing. I guess the military just takes these companies for their word?

Externally, records found during discovery state the US army complained about the issue in 2006. During contract evalutions in 2007, it was also reported by the Norwegian Army. Internally, EOtech knew about the issue at least since then and did internally testing confirming the problem. It is pretty damning evidence.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


How much do other optics drift under extreme temperature swings? Surely the mount, rails barrel and other parts are affected as well. Curious what the drift is on the control part of the tests. Not saying this isn't bad but it's not like other optics and guns are expected to keep perfect zero under these conditions are they?

ThinkFear
Sep 14, 2007



Time to find out if they will refund a 15 year old 511

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


So since there's no fix/new design yet the only thing they can do is issue refunds? If they don't release a fixed product, doesn't that mean they're done for?

  • Locked thread