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So, the Humpty/Yamata combo deck using R/R looks really interesting. Anyone have any thoughts on it?
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Jan 6, 2016 16:27
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On Rezzard's Judgment can you put any two cards down or do they need to be standby/stealth? And he's Imperishable so when you flip him again can you put two more down?
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Jan 7, 2016 02:29
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Ryoshi posted:On Rezzard's Judgment can you put any two cards down or do they need to be standby/stealth? And he's Imperishable so when you flip him again can you put two more down? Yes to both I am pretty sure. Without standby/stealth though those cards are stuck there.
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Jan 7, 2016 03:11
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That's fine, that's actually insanely overpowered if you can pull it off right. Get as many Deathscythes and Laevitanns (or however you spell it) out on turns 1 and 2, Judgment turn 3 laying any Stealths/Standbys you have, things with 3+ cost if nothing else, then just spend turns 4 through whatever throwing Rezzard at things and killing them to your side of the field until he gets killed himself. Rinse and repeat.
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Jan 7, 2016 03:25
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Tanon posted:So, the Humpty/Yamata combo deck using R/R looks really interesting. Anyone have any thoughts on it? Got a link to it? Ryoshi posted:That's fine, that's actually insanely overpowered if you can pull it off right. Get as many Deathscythes and Laevitanns (or however you spell it) out on turns 1 and 2, Judgment turn 3 laying any Stealths/Standbys you have, things with 3+ cost if nothing else, then just spend turns 4 through whatever throwing Rezzard at things and killing them to your side of the field until he gets killed himself. Rinse and repeat. Oh man, you don't even know the beginning of overpowered in this game. That's a very good start though.
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Jan 7, 2016 03:30
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Ramos posted:Got a link to it? http://youtu.be/hAFyxZZJ5l4 That's a link to the deck tech, the list is in the description. Basically, it gets Humpty Dumpty out on two then swings on 3 before using Chesire Cat to put Yamata on top of your library then Humptying to Yamata and pumping with R/R and Little Red and murdering your opponent/their board. Edit: Also, at 2 PM JST (so, I think midnight EST?) there's a FoW QA on twitch. Dunno the language, but somethings supposedly gonna be spoiled. Tanon fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 03:35
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Seems kind of weak to black decks. Dark Alice's Scorn and Unseen Pressure immediately come to mind, but that's mostly because they're cards I routinely run. I also have to wonder how useful Realm of Pure Spirit is. It certainly doesn't protect your win condition. Orochi's always been a good win condition, but this deck feels like it would fall apart with some mild disruption.
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Jan 7, 2016 04:11
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Yeah, I really don't know what to play yet. I haven't bought the first card, I've just been looking at interesting decks. The current power level in this game is absolutely absurd. If you don't have turn 1 interaction with your opponent's resonators, you'll just get ran right the gently caress over. Forty card decks and the way you mulligan, plus R/R makes decks super consistent as well. I may just make a simpler R/R red aggro or knights deck first, dunno. That combo deck looks cool, but I've looked at the Alice's World decks and they just look more annoying than anything.
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Jan 7, 2016 04:35
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Competitive play is currently in a wonky spot with R&R being released, so every deck is just straight up more consistent with it. It's like Magic's Time Vault or some other early game blunder. Seriously though, I really don't recommend jumping straight into the competitive scene, a lot of the other rulers a lot of fun and you'll probably get a lot more from the game starting with people who are just playing casual. That or maybe try out some drafting or sealed? The starter decks are still a good place to start since they're decently powerful and have a bunch of nice staple cards. Heck, if you've played other card games before, just say what sort of strategy you're into and it shouldn't be too hard to drill down and find something from there.
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Jan 7, 2016 04:44
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I've played MtG for years, and was really into the competitive scene until I've been somewhat priced out recently. Standard isn't interesting and is super expensive, and I enjoy Modern and Legacy (but definitely can't afford Legacy). I like combo and tempo-control; basically Storm and Twin are my jam. I also like goofy combo stuff, and I was planning on building Amulet Bloom til everyone started calling for it to be banned out. I honestly just don't know what to start with. I don't have tons of expendable cash to buy useless stuff, so I like putting together a deck list and just buying it outright. I have heard the starters have good value, I'm just not sure where to start. Magic definitely had a glut of available information to make decisions with. This game has next to nothing. I can't even find a decent deck builder or card library app on iOS.
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Jan 7, 2016 05:26
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Tanon posted:I've played MtG for years, and was really into the competitive scene until I've been somewhat priced out recently. Standard isn't interesting and is super expensive, and I enjoy Modern and Legacy (but definitely can't afford Legacy). I like combo and tempo-control; basically Storm and Twin are my jam. I also like goofy combo stuff, and I was planning on building Amulet Bloom til everyone started calling for it to be banned out. I started by buying the 5 standalone starters, the duel box, 2 vingolf boxes and a box worth of boosters to have a baseline to build from. This was mostly a mistake! Given a time machine I would just buy the 2 Vingolf boxes and then the singles for the decks I've made. Even then the Vingolf boxes mostly coast by on yielding full sets of dual stones and a playset of thunders. It has a few other really handy cards like Rasputin and Mozart but, gonna be honest here, the art and flavor text on the cards is so bad I don't even want to use them. 2 Vingolf's will run about 70 bucks after shipping though. If you want to be as cheap as possible, then I think the red starter deck at 18 bucks is probably the single best place to start. I think it's pretty solidly stronger than the other decks, with maybe the blue deck edging it out. Value-wise, it comes with 4 snow whites, which are currently sitting at 4 dollars low median on tcgplayer. If you want to get a little pricier then the Melgis vs. Faria duel box at about 30 after shipping comes with several cards that seem to be competitive staples (1 guinevere,1 lancelot, 1 perceval, 4 rukh egg, 2 laevatein, 2 excalibur). It will provide a better baseline of cards to transition into something good with some investment than the red starter but it's 10 bucks more expensive and the Faria deck is honestly quite mediocre. Failboattootoot fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 06:03
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Well, it is pretty new. That said, there aren't that many combos sitting around at the moment. Your best bet is in fact to start with Yamata since it's just such a good finisher. If you're less into game ending combos, the cthulhu tribal deck thrives off of synergistic interactions between the various cards. Also, before I go any further, I misread Realm of Pure Spirits, Yamata is pretty much never targetable while that's in play, meaning you have a lot more resistance than I thought. I think the main issue I find with the Yamata deck as it currently stands is that while Yamata is a good finisher, making sure to have back up for the combo strikes me as a good idea. The reanimator decks tend to use Genesis Creation, which gets both Realm of Pure Spirits and Yamata onto the field at the same time. For cards that let you pitch stuff, Knight of the New Moon, Guinevere, and Forty Thieves. Also pretty much no one is playing Dark Alice right now, so reanimator strikes me as a better way of doing things? I personally haven't run into a Yamata deck or played against one yet, likely due to local meta, but on second review of that deck list, it does look very solid. You're likely going to be locked into R&R for playing competitively at the moment though. You can play the game on untap.in, so if nothing else, I'd be up for playing a few rounds with you over the weekend and seeing what works best.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:17
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I paid mild attention to that stream Tanon mentioned. The big announcement? Hmmm. Hmmmmmmmmm. Force of Will tabletop RPG coming to you soon, I guess? edit: For the record, there were no images or anything. Just that in the new few weeks there will be a beta pdf going up on the main site. Also, apparently R&D thought Reflect and Refrain were going to be a minor blip on the meta. Ramos fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 08:05
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Ramos posted:I paid mild attention to that stream Tanon mentioned. The big announcement? Man I am curious how they tested R+R, because even from first glance that card was busted. Perhaps they were testing more Ruler-centric strategies? Also the facebook mentions a spoiler but I don't see anything.
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Jan 7, 2016 10:58
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Interested to see what non-ban or errata thing they'll do to bring down R/R. Hopefully R&D learned a lesson from it? Tabletop RPG seems interesting enough, and apparently spoilers for the next set are in a week or two, so it'll be interesting to see how things change. And I'm not sure what the wife has planned for the weekend, but if I get some time free I'd love to get online and play, Ramos. How's the client you're using?
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Jan 7, 2016 14:16
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They also mentioned on the stream that the next Vingolf will be based on a anime so here's hoping it's JoJo.
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Jan 7, 2016 14:37
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Tamagod Sushi posted:Man I am curious how they tested R+R, because even from first glance that card was busted. Perhaps they were testing more Ruler-centric strategies? Also the facebook mentions a spoiler but I don't see anything. The spoiler, as far as I can tell, was the tabletop RPG. I know at least one other person in the chat was confused about that. Tanon posted:Interested to see what non-ban or errata thing they'll do to bring down R/R. Hopefully R&D learned a lesson from it? The best thing right now is untap.in. That's a literal url. It's very bare minimum and doesn't actually have any rules enforcement, but it's about the best thing there is right now. I'll make sure to hang around in the IRC chatroom over the weekend if nothing else to help you and if that doesn't work, just PM me when a good time would be. awesomebrah posted:They also mentioned on the stream that the next Vingolf will be based on a anime so here's hoping it's JoJo. This Japanese product has gone on for too long without giant fighting robots, I think. Ramos fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 14:50
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I really want to get out and play at the local store's organized play nights but you guys have me all worried it would be three hours straight of losing to R+R over and over again. 
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Jan 7, 2016 16:12
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Not much to say to that beyond just give it a shot anyway. Worst case scenario is that you ask if there's time and place for casual play and then leave early.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:21
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Ryoshi posted:I really want to get out and play at the local store's organized play nights but you guys have me all worried it would be three hours straight of losing to R+R over and over again. I honestly wouldn't worry too much about R/R at the local level, sure it's broken but it does take some skill to play properly so you won't necessarily auto lose to it. At the competitive level on the other hand you better have a very very very good reason to play something else.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:51
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From the perspective of a non-player who's just looking at this as an interested outsider: What's so broken about R/R? I'm not getting a good feel for it by just reading the cards in question.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:33
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Just about everything. Sit tight, this is going to be decently long post that won't necessarily cover absolutely EVERYTHING that makes R&R good.  So starting with Reflect, you get to use one of those abilities once per turn, every turn. This means your turn and your opponent's turn. You'll be getting two counters for each of your turns so long as you remember to use Reflect's abilities. So his first ability gives a resonator +200/+200. If your resonators are roughly on the same level of your opponent's and they aren't playing Reflect then you pretty much auto win at combat. Swinging with a 400/400 with a potential 500/500 blocker means that if your opponent does block, he or she loses the combat without additional help and if he or she doesn't, you push damage through and keep that once per turn ability. The second ability and the one I find I use the most just lets you carve out your hand. R&R doesn't get bad hands because you can basically rapid cycle through your entire deck until you carve out exactly the hand you want at your own pace. This level of selection gets dumber with Morgiana. The third ability plays into the same idea as the first, combat superiority. Since your resonators normally can only be targeted by opposing resonators when they are rested, Reflect can just skip that often if the particular resonator is valuable enough. Also, during combat, your resonator will become rested if it attacks or blocks. Recovering it means you can attack or block again, which can help push damage, stave off aggro, etc. Now then, you can flip to Refrain whenever. Basically hit the number of stones you need and just flip flop back and forth for free for the rest of the game since it costs zero will to go to Refrain. Refrain can also flip back to Reflect, meaning you still have full access to Reflect's abilities and also can dodge punishment from cards like Blazer. Refrain's first ability can blunt aggro, open up attack pathways for you, and let you abuse Enter abilities of resonators. And R&R flip flopping back and forth every turn will always let you get enough counters to do that every turn. Since it takes resources to play down your guys every turn while R&R gets to bounce it for no will is just another way to steadily accrue an advantage on board. If handling resonators wasn't good enough, Refrain can also basically counter you playing any given non-resonator card. Kill spell for one of my guys? Counter it. Potentially game winning combo? Counter it. Your opponent will have to work around baiting out the R&R player to countering the wrong thing in order to hope to squeeze out a key move and that's before I even use cards from my own hand to counter them if I wanted to. The last ability, while being the least used for me, is basically a fast way to get any card you need to answer an opponent's threat or get your own game winning combo online. Say, for example, with Toran's Humpty Dumpty combo, if I just so happened use a discard spell to get rid of one of the tools needed, if Reflect's cycling ability wasn't enough to get to a second piece, Refrain can just go ahead and grab another. So, pretty powerful right? It gets better. Research and Development also saw fit to give R&R Orb of Illusion. You can have up to four of these, they're all free to play, and they're already easy to find with R&R. While on Refrain's side, you can start getting counters even faster than before, you can also use Refrain's abilities multiple times per turn, and just because you didn't have enough card advantage, you can even draw cards off of it. And that's per orb. R&R's not easy to play but in the right hands, the card is just a constant advantage engine, forcing your opponent to non-optimal plays while giving you access to whatever tools you could possibly want. Yeah, rulers like Sylvia are quite powerful, but it's not hard for R&R decks to cobble together exactly what it needs to counter her. Grabbing a deathscythe isn't difficult when you're R&R. Ramos fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 19:18
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Ramos posted:lots of big words Thanks for the writeup! I was still in the Hearthstone mindset, so it didn't occur to me that you could activate it during the enemy turn, too, and I also missed that Refrain's first ability could target enemy resonators. That's an impressive amount of bullshit to carry on two cards.
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Jan 7, 2016 20:26
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The thing about the loot effect as well is you only have a 40 card main deck, and can still have 4 ofs. That means that each card you draw is a much higher percentage of your deck, and looking at 3 cards a turn is absolutely bonkers.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:48
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Feeling pretty lucky, got 2 foil cheshire cats from a local shop for 20 bucks each.  Thinking of making a u/w reflect deck. It will probably be real bad but that's ok, I only play against my friends anyway so being bad would be preferable. Speaking of bad, I made a deck for the friends who were complaining about the art. My cousin played it against my modified rezzard starter and it seemed real drat slow. Figured I would share it and look for advice on some replacements. Hunks&cats.dec, the obvious gimmick being no scantily clad anime women. Ruler: Puss in Boots Stones 3x Fire magic stone 3x wind magic stone 4x magic stone of blasting waves Main Deck 4x Aramis, the Three Musketeers 4x Athros, the Three Musketeers 4x Porthos, the Three Musketeers 2x Herald of the Beast Lady 2x Survivor of Heaven Castle 2x Flame Cat 4x Lancelot, the Knight of Mad Demon 4x Mordred, the Traitor 4x Musketeer's Bayonet 2x Rapid Growth 2x Evolution of Limits 1x Burn to Cinders 1x Thunder 4x Demonflame Obviously 4 thunders would be great, but I don't want to pay for them and that singleton is the only one I've got that isn't already in a deck. Replacing the evolution of limits with more rapid growths would also be preferable. I'm thinking that maybe lowering the hunk quotient and getting 4 elvish priests would help? Failboattootoot fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 07:32
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Considering how much mana you need for some of your musketeers, Elvish Priest is definitely a good idea. Unless your opponent has some sort of answer, it pretty much sets you an entire turn ahead anyway. Since your strategy is also based around getting out all three musketeers, you might want to consider Drop of Yggdrasil or Leaves of Yggdrasil so that way your guys can't be too easily removed. If you need bad but fun W/U cards, Mad Tea-Party is always good.
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Jan 8, 2016 15:23
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Failboattootoot posted:Feeling pretty lucky, got 2 foil cheshire cats from a local shop for 20 bucks each.  Cheshire is only available in Foil.
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Jan 8, 2016 15:57
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On the other hand, they're at least thirty dollars per piece, so good job. (Jesus Christ, I hope we get a yellow border reprint soon.) Ramos fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 16:03
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Ramos posted:On the other hand, they're at least thirty dollars per piece, so good job. Same, along with Little Red the Pure Stone.
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Jan 8, 2016 16:25
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I just realized how genius of a marketing move it is to make some of your cards only in foil: it makes people want to foil out the rest of their deck to match, pushing up pack sales. Or maybe that's just the OCD in me coming out.
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Jan 8, 2016 16:28
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Tanon posted:I just realized how genius of a marketing move it is to make some of your cards only in foil: it makes people want to foil out the rest of their deck to match, pushing up pack sales. Before Millennia of Ages came out Rares and Super Rares where only available in Foil and you couldn't get Foil Commons and Uncommons. There where also the special versions of various Rares/Super Rares keeping things in check. Speaking of which I thought the crazy high price of the non-red Little Reds made regular (red) Little Red pretty cheap but I guess at some point people decided that just wasn't gonna fly. Also I guess the games popularity has started to take off. I know Magic nerds like the game because it's so close to Magic and fixes some of Magics problems I just hope they don't drag the finance crap into it. And if they do I hope the company making it goes full on Yu-Gi-Oh with reprints and does poo poo like reprint expensive cards at common in a later set.  They'll probably just keep making Vingolf type sets to combat that though. It works pretty well I guess. The Dual Stones used to be, like, 2-3x as much as they are now IIRC. Cernunnos fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 17:20
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I'm pretty alright with more vingolf sets. It makes it really easy to get everything in one swoop. Plus, it tickles my desire to have silly and colorful cubes where anime Socrates teams up with Alice of Wonderland to fight fabulous vampire Rezzard and his undead minion Cu Chulainn.
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Jan 8, 2016 17:46
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Oy, Tanon, after our games last night, I think the main issue with your deck at the moment is that it's built to fight other control decks but not necessarily fight off aggro decks. A major thing about Force of Will is quickly figuring out if you're the slower or faster deck in the match up and acting accordingly. For starters, I suggested Hera. Worst case scenario is a blocker, best case scenario is an additional clock that draws you a card and deals with a regalia. It even deals with the flute. She should probably be sitting somewhere main board. I also suggested Sign to the Future, which is probably more of a sideboard card, though you might be able to get away with a couple main board if the meta is aggressive enough. I know that it definitely ruins my deck before boarding. Arla's also a popular sideboard choice considering it directly answers Bahamut, but Bahamut's also going a bit out of style, so I'm not sure if it's worth a spot. That said, I think you just want a lot more raw card draw and field presence to ensure you can buy time to get to your win conditions. Squire of the Ocean Lady, Fruit of Yggdrasil, Adombrali, and Hanzo Hattori. Morgiana's also helpful in that regard as we've already discussed in this topic. Familiar of Holy Wind cantrips and can work as a removal spell in a few cases. Alice's Little Scout may also work since it has synergy with Deep Blue and also Adombrali if you decide to run it as well.
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Jan 11, 2016 00:09
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Cernunnos posted:Before Millennia of Ages came out Rares and Super Rares where only available in Foil and you couldn't get Foil Commons and Uncommons. if anyone tries to drag the "finance crap" into it then they're begging to completely lose their investment because we have zero idea on how Fow Inc. is gonna approach reprints.
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Jan 11, 2016 11:44
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I will play this game forever if they put out powerful reprint sets every time a block rotates out.
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Jan 11, 2016 14:05
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Ugh I really wish I could pull a few more rulers from boosters, out of the dozen or so I've grabbed I've only gotten ONE.
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Jan 11, 2016 18:21
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Out of curiosity, has anyone been trying out Glimpse of Kaguya? It's kind of surprisingly good when you realize that there's a lot of activated abilities in the game. I mean, it's about the only way you're going to counter Refrain's counter ability among other things.
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Jan 11, 2016 21:35
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Ramos posted:Out of curiosity, has anyone been trying out Glimpse of Kaguya? It's kind of surprisingly good when you realize that there's a lot of activated abilities in the game. I mean, it's about the only way you're going to counter Refrain's counter ability among other things. As long as R/R is 90+% of the meta, I can see it being a good main deck card. When the Wonder Twins aren't running everything, I imagine it will be a sideboard card at best.
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Jan 11, 2016 22:20
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Holy gently caress, we got some errata! See here. You can now only activate Reflect's abilities on your turn, effectively halving the number of counters you get naturally plus no defensive combat tricks.
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Jan 12, 2016 08:06
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I think it's a very good change. Definitely nerfs them, without completely crippling them into junk. I think it actually hurts combo and synergy decks more than anything, although aggro decks lose the ability to pump and save. It'll be interesting to see how the meta will shake out now.
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Jan 12, 2016 16:51
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