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Three-Phase
Aug 5, 2006

by zen death robot
I thought there were some black and white LCDs as well that were for things like some medical applications (looking at digitized images of X-rays where you needed very good quality and things like that.)

EDIT: Here's one: http://www.necdisplay.com/p/medical-diagnostic-displays/md211g3

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King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

You think you can take me at Satan's Hollow? Go 'head on!

mdm posted:

CRTs are only good for vintage video games but lol if you care about how vintage video games look

I don't care how they look, but I do care that there isn't any input lag at all because input lag makes playing stuff like Super Mario Bros. impossible. There's noticeable input lag on a flatscreen unless you buy a $300 framemeister or whatever.

But it's also pretty dumb to get your NES modded to output component video so your picture is slightly sharper.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

hmmm idk I beat smb on a flat screen in like 5:30 the other day after finding an old NES while unpacking so I think maybe you're just really bad at video games? im sorry you had to find out this way :(

Edmund Sparkler
Jul 4, 2003
For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is John Galt? This is John Galt speaking. I am the man who loves his life. I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values. I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are peris

Three-Phase posted:

I thought there were some black and white LCDs as well that were for things like some medical applications (looking at digitized images of X-rays where you needed very good quality and things like that.)

EDIT: Here's one: http://www.necdisplay.com/p/medical-diagnostic-displays/md211g3

Medical equipment is insane. I get that it's specialized and it's important that it be precise but $5k+ for a B&W LCD is crazy. :retrogames:

Edmund Sparkler fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Apr 18, 2016

Three-Phase
Aug 5, 2006

by zen death robot

FIRST TIME posted:

Medical equipment is insane. I get that it's specialized and it's important that it be precise but $5k+ for a B&W LCD is crazy. :retrogames:

I guess if you need a super-sharp display to scan through dozens of patients' x-rays and find the one that has a tumor, or you're trying to determine what is happening inside the brain of a child that got slammed into by a car while riding his bicycle, a $5k display that's extremely high quality makes sense. It's being used for literal life-and-death decisions. :shrug:

Edmund Sparkler
Jul 4, 2003
For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is John Galt? This is John Galt speaking. I am the man who loves his life. I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values. I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are peris

At one point I was collecting consoles until I finally realized that they just took up a lot of space and that for NES/SNES/Gameboy/Sega Genesis, it was just easier to run emulators off a modded OG XBOX hooked up to my TV. Still worth it though to keep some systems around. N64 emulation sucks so it's worth keeping around.

I get what people say about lag but I think it's easy enough to get used to for most games unless you're a major sperglord.

Three-Phase posted:

I guess if you need a super-sharp display to scan through dozens of patients' x-rays and find the one that has a tumor, or you're trying to determine what is happening inside the brain of a child that got slammed into by a car while riding his bicycle, a $5k display that's extremely high quality makes sense. It's being used for literal life-and-death decisions. :shrug:

Definitely, totally agree.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

no lie I keep my OG consoles in a rubbermaid bin in the garage and play everything on a retron5 now, it owns (except the retron5 controllers which are garbage poo poo for idiots but I have a million old NES/Genesis pads around)

Schweinhund
Oct 23, 2004

:derp:   :kayak:                                     

Ryoshi posted:

hmmm idk I beat smb on a flat screen in like 5:30 the other day after finding an old NES while unpacking so I think maybe you're just really bad at video games? im sorry you had to find out this way :(

5:30 is amateur hour. shouldve used a crt

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

The gently caress is a framemeister?

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

Jerry Cotton posted:

The gently caress is a framemeister?

dedicated upscaler that takes component/s-video/whatever garbage your old console shits out and HDMI's it with much less lag than the lovely scalers in a $139 Proscan

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

I don't know what that is either but I'm assuming it's a lovely Chinese-made American brand of TVs? The solution, of course, is to buy a decent Sony-brand LCD TV like I did so you don't need external inventions. The only thing I've had trouble with is Beat the Beat Ryhmyparatiisi for the Wii but I don't know if it's because of lag or because I suck at it :shrug:

(I didn't think there'd be a product literally called Framemeister :lol:)

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

Wikipedia posted:

Competition is focused mainly on price to size ratio.

Ah.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

Schweinhund posted:

5:30 is amateur hour. shouldve used a crt

yeah i know man im rusty as poo poo but still it's a far cry from unplayable like that scrublord asserted earlier


related note, how did we use NES controllers for so long, those corners fuckin hurt

Hector Beerlioz
Jun 16, 2010

aw, hec
I bought the tvs

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

You think you can take me at Satan's Hollow? Go 'head on!

Ryoshi posted:

yeah i know man im rusty as poo poo but still it's a far cry from unplayable like that scrublord asserted earlier

I have never played SMB on a flatscreen so I don't know what you're talking about. The input lag thing was something that people who know way more about refresh rates and hertzes and poo poo than I do came up with, because of something to do with how NES was programmed with old-rear end TVs in mind.

I do know that you can't play Hogan's Alley on an HDTV. I can't even play it on my HD CRT.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

King Vidiot posted:

I have never played SMB on a flatscreen so I don't know what you're talking about. The input lag thing was something that people who know way more about refresh rates and hertzes and poo poo than I do came up with, because of something to do with how NES was programmed with old-rear end TVs in mind.

"People who know" is a type I'd be hesitant to trust on any matter based on my experiences on audiophile forums.

Indy
Mar 30, 2005

Hey guys, what's up?

Three-Phase posted:

I guess if you need a super-sharp display to scan through dozens of patients' x-rays and find the one that has a tumor, or you're trying to determine what is happening inside the brain of a child that got slammed into by a car while riding his bicycle, a $5k display that's extremely high quality makes sense. It's being used for literal life-and-death decisions. :shrug:

Lol if you belive this. It costs 5k because it can

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

Do they even make black-and-white panels or is it just a regular colour panel use to display b&w images?

A SWEATY FATBEARD
Oct 6, 2012

:buddy: GAY 4 ORGANS :buddy:
I suppose that weird/tiny old CRTs still have some value. Back in 2013, I got my hands on a tiny monochrome VGA monitor which was 10 inches across, shipped with one of those 286-based "electronic typewriter" things which were bullshit products for aging people who were afraid of computers back in 1985. The 286 was thrown away but the monitor worked like a champ with Win7, although it topped out at 640x480 - the picture was crisp and clear, and it would put many early 2000s LCDs to shame. I spray painted it black and sold it to a hipster :siren: for no less than $20, :siren: in TYOOL 2013. Pretty impressive for something that was literally fished out of the dumpster.

JiveHonky
May 12, 2001

by zen death robot
Grimey Drawer

Hector Beerlioz posted:

I bought the tvs

you son of a...

kremlins
May 9, 2009

thank god this thread is back

people still make black and white TVs, for prisoners. they're made with clear plastic so you can't hide anything in them

it'd seem like they'd have to go through extra work to manufacture black and white TVs in 2016, just to be intentionally cruel to people in prison. shucks

Hector Beerlioz
Jun 16, 2010

aw, hec

JiveHonky posted:

you son of a...

I surrounded all of them around me head, if i leave it would literally be breaking the 4th wall.

Nostalgia4Dogges
Jun 18, 2004

Only emojis can express my pure, simple stupidity.

Jerry Cotton posted:

Do they even make black-and-white panels or is it just a regular colour panel use to display b&w images?

Yeah I wonder if the extreme niche uses like a screen for a radiologist to purely look at x-rays applies. Maybe?

Edmund Sparkler
Jul 4, 2003
For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is John Galt? This is John Galt speaking. I am the man who loves his life. I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values. I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are peris

A SWEATY FATBEARD posted:

I suppose that weird/tiny old CRTs still have some value. Back in 2013, I got my hands on a tiny monochrome VGA monitor which was 10 inches across, shipped with one of those 286-based "electronic typewriter" things which were bullshit products for aging people who were afraid of computers back in 1985. The 286 was thrown away but the monitor worked like a champ with Win7, although it topped out at 640x480 - the picture was crisp and clear, and it would put many early 2000s LCDs to shame. I spray painted it black and sold it to a hipster :siren: for no less than $20, :siren: in TYOOL 2013. Pretty impressive for something that was literally fished out of the dumpster.

Model M and other similar keyboards still sell for stupid money.

I found a bunch of old HP keyboards at a thrift shop for $1 each and got $25 each for them. To be fair, I prefer them to the newer, shittier keyboards but now way I'd pay any real money for one.

Kremlin Kremlin posted:

thank god this thread is back

people still make black and white TVs, for prisoners. they're made with clear plastic so you can't hide anything in them

it'd seem like they'd have to go through extra work to manufacture black and white TVs in 2016, just to be intentionally cruel to people in prison. shucks

Yeah, I've seen those in the wild before. They don't have a built in speaker, just a headphone jack. I guess it's so the inmates can't be annoying with them and start fights and poo poo.

Edmund Sparkler fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Apr 18, 2016

kremlins
May 9, 2009

my symbolics 3620 keyboard goes for something like $1200 on ebay

Edmund Sparkler
Jul 4, 2003
For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is John Galt? This is John Galt speaking. I am the man who loves his life. I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values. I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are peris

Kremlin Kremlin posted:

my symbolics 3620 keyboard goes for something like $1200 on ebay

tbf, that is a pretty sweet looking keyboard



Manufacturers got stupid when they started making keyboards all rounded off and "ergonomic" and poo poo. Also, they started making them with the shittiest parts and materials possible.

That mouse is loving hideous though.

Ein cooler Typ
Nov 26, 2013

by FactsAreUseless
why don't they have color x-rays yet

kremlins
May 9, 2009

FIRST TIME posted:

tbf, that is a pretty sweet looking keyboard



Manufacturers got stupid when they started making keyboards all rounded off and "ergonomic" and poo poo. Also, they started making them with the shittiest parts and materials possible.

That mouse is loving hideous though.

i've got the older model:



it's a fraction of the price of what the LM-2 models cost, which are effectively impossible to find:

kremlins
May 9, 2009

the computer it comes with is phenomenal. something we'll never see again, a computer built for a professional and not for a consumer. you can debug/step through the microcode from the userspace editor (zmacs).

symbolics and genera were amazing

eSports Chaebol
Feb 22, 2005

Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

Kremlin Kremlin posted:

i've got the older model:



it's a fraction of the price of what the LM-2 models cost, which are effectively impossible to find:



these are only cool if you have crazy programs that require you to type one letter with one hand while smashing an entire bottom corner of the keyboard with your fist with the other to access some super secret commands

kremlins
May 9, 2009

they're actually only cool if you have a symbolics lisp machine, which is the only computer they attach to

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012
where's the windows key?

Blue Train
Jun 17, 2012

it's the super key

cyberia
Jun 24, 2011

Do not call me that!
Snuffles was my slave name.
You shall now call me Snowball; because my fur is pretty and white.

There's one of these TVs sitting on the sidewalk outside my neighbour's house right now. It's been there for at least two weeks waiting for the council hard rubbish collection to come and pick it up which shows how worthless it is because there are people that cruise around that will take pretty much any trash that gets put out because they perceive it to have some nebulous resale value.

Say Nothing
Mar 5, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

A SWEATY FATBEARD posted:

I suppose that weird/tiny old CRTs still have some value. Back in 2013, I got my hands on a tiny monochrome VGA monitor which was 10 inches across, shipped with one of those 286-based "electronic typewriter" things which were bullshit products for aging people who were afraid of computers back in 1985. The 286 was thrown away but the monitor worked like a champ with Win7, although it topped out at 640x480 - the picture was crisp and clear, and it would put many early 2000s LCDs to shame. I spray painted it black and sold it to a hipster :siren: for no less than $20, :siren: in TYOOL 2013. Pretty impressive for something that was literally fished out of the dumpster.

Old CRTs are now known as 'Artisanal Monitors' and are treasured by hipster scum.

kremlins
May 9, 2009

Blue Train posted:

it's the super key

The Fuzzy Hulk
Nov 22, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT CROSSING THE STREAMS


cyberia posted:

There's one of these TVs sitting on the sidewalk outside my neighbour's house right now. It's been there for at least two weeks waiting for the council hard rubbish collection to come and pick it up which shows how worthless it is because there are people that cruise around that will take pretty much any trash that gets put out because they perceive it to have some nebulous resale value.

They have bitchen magnifying lenses in them.

Bloodplay it again
Aug 25, 2003

Oh, Dee, you card. :-*

Sh'yeah like I need to press a button to rub one out. Thanks, but no thanks, early 80's.

Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000

by Fluffdaddy

Ryoshi posted:

hmmm idk I beat smb on a flat screen in like 5:30 the other day after finding an old NES while unpacking so I think maybe you're just really bad at video games? im sorry you had to find out this way :(

No, he is correct. I was trying Super Mario World on my NVidia Shield TV device, and the lag was ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, you would never notice it in something like Chrono Trigger, but I couldn't play SMW for poo poo. I would die 3 times before finishing the 2nd stage.

I plugged in the real SNES and it played perfectly. It could be something with Android emulators having lag, or maybe the wireless controller, I don't know. It's not TV input lag though because the Shield is putting out a 1080p picture so there's no scaling going on.

King Vidiot posted:

I don't care how they look, but I do care that there isn't any input lag at all because input lag makes playing stuff like Super Mario Bros. impossible. There's noticeable input lag on a flatscreen unless you buy a $300 framemeister or whatever.


For what it's worth, I think a lot of this has to do with LCD technology. My house only has Panasonic plasma TVs (yes I am a sperg) and I notice no lag when using the original equipment on those TVs. However, I do use a Framemeister because the picture quality is a thousand times better.

I completely admit modding an NES to output component/RGB is spergy as hell when you can just use a PC with an emulator but I like using the original consoles. I use flashcarts for virtually everything though, because my house was becoming a dump with old video game carts. So flashcarts were the happy middle ground for me.

Otisburg posted:

aren't there some people balls deep on the cock of retro gaming who use CRTs for a more "authentic experience?"

It isn't that it's just "authentic". It looks way, way better. The best example I found is Super Mario RPG. Looks like absolute poo poo on emulators but gorgeous on CRTs.

I personally don't use a CRT, but it's not really some hipster poo poo. Old games simply do look a lot better on them. Hell, not even all CRTs. Those 1080i HD CRTs that were out in the early 00s also make retro games look like poo poo.

Vulture posted:

i played the mario bros. games on nintendo w/ a crt when i was a kid, but i dont feel the need now to collect 4 or 5 of the loving things to properly relive the experience like that one goon apparently does. jfc does it really matter if you use an emulator.


If this is in reference to me, I don't have a CRT. The only thing you really have to buy to make an old console look and run great on a flat screen TV is an XRGB Framemeister. Yes, it's expensive. But I figured there was no loving way I was dedicating a wing of my house to only old video games and keeping a CRT in there just for that. Not to mention I would much rather play games on a 60" TV than a 32" (not that I have much time for video games any more anyways, but that is besides the point).

Back to the topic, there are some CRTs still worth a ton of money: certain Sony PVMs, and arcade monitors. I just bought a brand new arcade monitor for a MAME cabinet I began building 8 years ago. The problem is that arcade monitors went from "can't give them away for free" in 2008 to "$500 with moderate burn-in" just recently. I got very, very lucky and found a brand new 25" arcade monitor for $350. The guy could have easily gotten $700 for it (finding one brand new is hilariously rare). Anyway, that's the one instance I would use a CRT: in my arcade cabinet. Arcade monitors are even lower resolution than old TVs, so you really do need an arcade monitor or else everything looks "off". It's spergy, yes, and I wish I didn't care about stuff like that but I do. I know people who made MAME cabinets and used LCD screens and they looked horrible in my opinion but I wasn't going to spoil their fun if they were happy with it.

I hope OLEDs get cheaper and more common, though I think the name sounding so much like LED is going to confuse people and it will fail on that alone (everyone will think they already have an OLED or advertisers will mislead them). It is the only picture I would say rivals HD CRTs and plasmas, if not beats them both. I honestly couldn't believe how great they looked when I saw them. But even though there's literally 0 motion blur, I heard the LG OLEDs are using cheap as hell processors and the input lag is even worse than LCDs from 2003 :negative:

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Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

hmmm yes he is correct in saying there is input lag

except when you said that it wasn't input lag and the bottleneck was elsewhere

really makes u think (about how bad at reading comprehension you are)

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