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EgonSpengler posted:Also on the list of economy things that Relic figured out and hasn't backed away from in over a decade: Paying for your units up front. Yes and went to auto-build functionality when they made the switch. Nobody's saying this needs to have a TA style economy. Or even a Homeworld style one. But overwatch functionality should be the de-facto genre standard if you go for up-front economy and has been in Relic games. Edit: The unit guide is cool - it does seem like there's more combat depth that the previews showed (Gearbox should really get kicked in the nuts of their handling of this). DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 19:20
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Goon favourite, TB has a skirmish video up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYRibkfPXM0
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Jan 19, 2016 19:24
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e:fb
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Jan 19, 2016 19:25
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Is TB playing a review version lacking in updates? ...because if not, you need to patch in rebindable controls/hotkeys ASAP. That's a hilarious oversight for an RTS in TYOOL 2016.
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Jan 19, 2016 19:28
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dogstile posted:I'm also bad at RTS's and I can confirm that overall I have way less downtime if i'm not automating production because if I do and run out of resources, chances are i've forgotten what i was building and i'm spending ages frantically clicking around trying to find what the gently caress is taking up all my money and no matter how much bold you use isn't going to change that. Economy stalls aren't the end of the world. As long as you have some income, things will still continue to build. Personally, I find it easier rather than having to constantly build units.
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Jan 19, 2016 19:42
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Mordja posted:Goon favourite, TB has a skirmish video up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYRibkfPXM0 Ooooh my that's a pretty savage review. I mean, I've been having a lot of fun replaying HW1R and HW2R over the weekend in anticipation but wowza, TB doubles the gently caress DOWN on the criticisms of the AI.
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Jan 19, 2016 20:04
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If you went trough HW1 Remastered campaign and found it decent ai wise then this is going to be fine. HW1: R also had absolutely braindead AI in campaign.
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Jan 19, 2016 20:14
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The AI is the least issue with HW1:R.
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Jan 19, 2016 20:15
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lol tb is awful in that skirmish video, yet he blames the ai for cheating. gimme a break, has he played an RTS title in the past decade or so? frest posted:Is TB playing a review version lacking in updates? ...because if not, you need to patch in rebindable controls/hotkeys ASAP. That's a hilarious oversight for an RTS in TYOOL 2016. i agree that it's a lazy oversight, but i've personally never had to rebind keys in any of the homeworld titles because they're fine by default (at least for me)
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Jan 19, 2016 20:24
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I never thought Homeworld had particularly good AI but maybe it's just me? Not being able to rebind keys is hilarious though, that seems like the kind of basic functionality that should be in your RTS game.
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Jan 19, 2016 20:28
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TheCoach posted:If you went trough HW1 Remastered campaign and found it decent ai wise then this is going to be fine. HW1: R also had absolutely braindead AI in campaign. Well I should clarify that the fun in HW1R is mostly stealing every loving ship the AI trundles lazily in the direction of my mothership. The AI is junk, but it's scripted to do things that present a challenge most of the time just through sheer weight of numbers. HW2R has no capture everything shenanigans and thus is... less fun.
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Jan 19, 2016 20:29
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newmans_owned posted:lol tb is awful in that skirmish video, yet he blames the ai for cheating. gimme a break, has he played an RTS title in the past decade or so? Hes a Blizzard fanboy in the esports scene since SC1. If it isn't Starcraft 1 or 2 it sucks as those are RTS perfection.
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Jan 19, 2016 20:32
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gullah jack posted:I never thought Homeworld had particularly good AI but maybe it's just me? I think it's because the AI ships flying around don't give the same impression as a ground unit just sitting there trading blows, even if they're effectively doing the same thing.
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Jan 19, 2016 20:34
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Mokinokaro posted:Hes a Blizzard fanboy in the esports scene since SC1. If it isn't Starcraft 1 or 2 it sucks as those are RTS perfection. though hopefully they do patch in remappable hotkeys and such jazz
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Jan 19, 2016 20:36
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plz don't listen to TB when it comes to RTS. here's another review that just dropped http://wargamer.com/Article/10328
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Jan 19, 2016 20:37
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Did TB say if it was 60 fps perfection?
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Jan 19, 2016 20:39
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newmans_owned posted:lol tb is awful in that skirmish video, yet he blames the ai for cheating. gimme a break, has he played an RTS title in the past decade or so? That AI did actually perform a thousand times worse than Broodwar though, and Broodwars AI was not stellar either. Cheating AI is OK, that's the only way you can have any sort of a challenge from it. However this cheating AI was beaten 1v1 on a small map by a not so focused guy that did lots of mistakes, anyone with any skill will stomp it dead without a contest. Game itself looks pretty good tho, so if that AI can be fixed or it's buildorder is moddable, you could make yourself a pretty challenging game.
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Jan 19, 2016 20:50
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I am not basing my purchase of this game around the Skirmish AI, but let's not pretend that this isn't a legitimate criticism or not worthy of mentioning in a review. For some people, AI stomp matches are what they like to do. I'm curious to see how the multiplayer goes personally.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:12
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I just hope that the sp tells a good story and is fun to play!
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Jan 19, 2016 21:19
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Mokinokaro posted:Hes a Blizzard fanboy in the esports scene since SC1. If it isn't Starcraft 1 or 2 it sucks as those are RTS perfection. Doesn't change that he's right and it shows in the video - the AI is awful. He's floating tons of resources, as you'd do when you're new to a game and distracted, yet he's easily beating the hardest difficulty setting. That is loving horrible for an RTS, where the majority of people will only play singleplayer and comp stomps. The non-rebindable keys (and they're not even WASD camera and/or grid-keys) are just the tip of the problems it seems.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:28
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I'd be concerned about that if I played to use computers as anything but filler fodder. It certainly didn't ruin HW Remastered for me.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:31
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Watching TB's video i noticed one detail: The carrier will happily drive over literally anything (units, resources) and doesn't seem to have any collision checks whatsoever. I understand it might be a little tricky to implement that well, but for a game that's big on immersion ... it really obliterates immersion. Also having a ~10 hour campaign doesn't sound great, unless he massively underestimates that? Edit: Also, wow, the endgame of that AI on hard was just hilariously bad. It's not even that it didn't use advanced strategies or anything like that, it actively hosed itself over. Sent hordes of trash units, wasting its resources in completely useless annoyance attacks, tuned its carrier for speed, but left it standing immobile, hid the stronger units *behind* the carrier. This isn't even bad AI, it's entirely buggy and broken. I'm hoping that the review copy he had simply had broken AI, or AI tuned to flop over and show its belly, to make it easy for reviewers. Mithaldu fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 22:04
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frest posted:I am not basing my purchase of this game around the Skirmish AI, but let's not pretend that this isn't a legitimate criticism or not worthy of mentioning in a review. For some people, AI stomp matches are what they like to do. I'm curious to see how the multiplayer goes personally. Skirmish AI was never a relic strong suit unfortunately. Hopefully some patches improve it.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:12
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I've played about 8 hours of campaign and I've enjoyed it a great deal, 'cheating AI' throwing a continual stream of forces at you isn't a problem since you spend a lot of the time in enemy territory. Then again I'm not an RTS player so I'm not qualified to discuss how it compares with other games.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:26
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ROCKET SCIENCE
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illectro posted:I've played about 8 hours of campaign and I've enjoyed it a great deal, 'cheating AI' throwing a continual stream of forces at you isn't a problem since you spend a lot of the time in enemy territory. Then again I'm not an RTS player so I'm not qualified to discuss how it compares with other games. The cheating is not the issue, especially not in the campaign. All game AIs cheat to some extent, in all games, otherwise they wouldn't be fun. What's bad is that it did that so blatantly, on hard, in skirmish mode, and still present literally no challenge whatsoever. It's bad because it means after the short and easy campaign (tutorial) you may do some MP matches while the MP is still alive, and then the game is done.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:30
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Mokinokaro posted:Skirmish AI was never a relic strong suit unfortunately. Hopefully some patches improve it. It was never their strong suit, but the hardest difficulty skirmish AI at least put up a fight. It actually tried to overwhelm you with it's unfair resource advantage in HW2 or CoH and it's not even capable of that it seems in DoK. Hell it didn't look like the AI was even capable of recognizing a losing battle - it never retreated anything even when it was presented with an overwhelming number of the correct counter-unit. RBA Starblade posted:I played a fair few comp stomps on Remastered, what it actually does is overload itself on harvesters then build some light corvettes. If it's Hiigaran it'll build a few marine frigates and hope you're not looking at your mothership (they managed to steal my friend's once, hilariously). Then that's an issue with the Remaster - the AI was perfectly capable of spamming you to death with way-to-early-to-have-them units like destroyers in the original HW2. Not that the remaster also have brokenly bad AI excuses DoK having the same in the first place. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 22:34
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DatonKallandor posted:It was never their strong suit, but the hardest difficulty skirmish AI at least put up a fight. It actually tried to overwhelm you with it's unfair resource advantage and it's not even capable of that it seems in DoK. I played a fair few comp stomps on Remastered, what it actually does is overload itself on harvesters then build some light corvettes. If it's Hiigaran it'll build a few marine frigates and hope you're not looking at your mothership (they managed to steal my friend's once, hilariously). quote:Then that's an issue with the Remaster - the AI was perfectly capable of spamming you to death with way-to-early-to-have-them units like destroyers in the original HW2. I don't recall that ever happening in any HW2 game I played. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 22:35
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DatonKallandor posted:It was never their strong suit, but the hardest difficulty skirmish AI at least put up a fight. It actually tried to overwhelm you with it's unfair resource advantage in HW2 or CoH and it's not even capable of that it seems in DoK. Hell it didn't look like the AI was even capable of recognizing a losing battle - it never retreated anything even when it was presented with an overwhelming number of the correct counter-unit. It looks broken. Not badly made, but purely broken. EDIT: PCGames.de's review brings up the AI a lot. It's not terribly adaptive apparently. Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 22:37
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Actually the marine frigate thing is my favorite thing about Remastered because it almost never feels like telling you if your carriers, shipyards, or mothership are under attack, or even if it blew up.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:39
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anyone who played against AI in older Relic titles has actual brain issues, much like the AI itself
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Jan 19, 2016 23:10
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Mokinokaro posted:It looks broken. Not badly made, but purely broken.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:19
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I guess I'll just watch this some day. Sorry developers, but if you don't spend time on a basic AI in an RTS, I won't spend my money. A ten hour campaign and five skirmish maps just says you aren't trying either.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhUByeB4ovs Here's a skirmish map played against normal AI. It looks about par for the course, braindead HW AI to me. I don't think that there was any functional AI in the HW: Remastered HW1 campaign at all, so I guess it's a step up!
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Jan 19, 2016 23:30
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In the spirit of 11th hour news we've just announced this for all pre-order customers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qulqPto9iCc The Deserts of Kharak: Expedition guide. Will be included for anyone who has bought already or buys by 10am PST tomorrow.
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Jan 20, 2016 01:23
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How about some Gaalsien gameplay? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhUByeB4ovs
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Jan 20, 2016 04:25
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illectro posted:My video of the game is now https://youtu.be/bqxx7xcjoQ8 I like the fact that you mention how awesome it would be to have a replay feature just to watch the battle. I wish that was in the Remastered Homeworlds and this.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:38
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Mokinokaro posted:How about some Gaalsien gameplay? "WE ARE EVIL SO OUR VOICES ARE DEEP".
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Jan 20, 2016 05:39
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DrSunshine posted:"WE ARE EVIL SO OUR VOICES ARE DEEP". Sounds like they might be cybernetic. One of the previews did mention that a third, unplayable faction appears during the campaign...
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Jan 20, 2016 05:45
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Cythereal posted:Sounds like they might be cybernetic. One of the previews did mention that a third, unplayable faction appears during the campaign... Don't all the Gaalsien we've seen wear sort of these scary gas masks? On second thought, they kind of remind me of the Brotherhood of NOD in Tiberian Dawn-- the voices, the red coloring, the speedy high-tech units... EDIT: I'll give them one thing -- the sound design. Having the units gradually increase the tension in their voices as they engage hostiles is a really great way of building excitement and tension for the player as well. As I watch these gameplay videos I can't help but feel my heartrate rise as the units start to engage each other. DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 05:47
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RBA Starblade posted:I played a fair few comp stomps on Remastered, what it actually does is overload itself on harvesters then build some light corvettes. If it's Hiigaran it'll build a few marine frigates and hope you're not looking at your mothership (they managed to steal my friend's once, hilariously). It hadn't happened to me in Homeworld 2 remastered, but I definitely had a nasty surprise in Homeworld 1 Remastered when I did the mission to destroy the Taiidani fleet that wrecked Kharak. I've got a swarm of stuff stolen with salvage 'vettes, and then out of nowhere the enemy had six destroyers and two dozen ion frigates waiting for me.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:56
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