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 WATCH THE FIRST EPISODE HERE IF YOU LACK NETFLIX Making a Murderer is a documentary series (now streaming in full on Netflix) that was 10 years in the making, and focuses on what has happened primarily in the life of a man, Steven Avery. It all begins when he was convicted of the savage rape and assault of a woman in 1985 in Manitowoc County, Wisconsin, and was imprisoned for a sentence of 38 years (I believe). There was a fair amount of fishiness that occurred in both the investigation and the trial, but the details are a bit murky from 1985. But in 2003, through new DNA evidence, Steven Avery (who maintained his innocence the entire 18 years he was in prison, at the expense of being eligible for parole) was proved unequivocally innocent while the correct suspect was simultaneously implicated. So in 2003 he was triumphantly freed from prison, and was held up as a tragic victim of the flaws of the justice system. This is just the start - what I described above is covered mostly in the first episode. Things get interesting when, in 2005, while Steven Avery is bringing a $36,000,000 civil suit against Manitowoc county (where he still resides) he apparently becomes the only suspect in the disappearance and murder of a young woman, Teresa Halbach. He is then once more investigated and arrested for this - by many of the same policemen who got it wrong the first time, and who were going to be involved in the civil trial that Steven was bringing against Manitowoc County. I know I sound a bit  here, and I'm not doing a fantastic job of explaining things because I'm a bit overwhelmed by the depth and scope of the 10-hour documentary. There is just so much that I don't have the time to go into.This series is very much a continuation of the "True Crime" angle we've been seeing a lot of this year, like The Jinx and Sarah Koenig's Serial podcasts. This was made on a shoestring budget by two women starting in 2005, who were film students at the time, and what they've put together is exhaustive and exhausting at times, but it's also utterly engrossing and fascinating. It does have its biases and I am still not entirely sure where I stand on certain issues, but this would be true of any documentary. It's also incredibly infuriating and rage-inducing, and if you're like me you will wind up too furious to continue watching at times, and feeling real anger at certain individuals in this documentary - specifically two lawyers, DA Ken Kratz (whom I am sure we will all have a great deal to say about later) and also Len Kachinsky, who came across as a special kind of repulsive and corrupt, which is saying a lot in this documentary. But I don't think anyone really compares to Ken Kratz. I don't want to get into spoilers so I'll leave it at that. Anyway. I'm not really very good at OPs or used to writing them - I was surprised to see there wasn't an OP for this yet, I searched back several pages, hopefully I didn't miss it. So, I'll just say that this is very much worth watching and discussing, and I'll be curious to see what sorts of thoughts people have on the whole drat thing. edit: change.org petition because it's good to feel like you're doing something after watching something like this and feeling really powerless: https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-free-steven-avery?recruiter=438194618&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink kaworu fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 20:20
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Burned through this over the past few days. Very entertaining and maybe the most infuriating thing I have watched in my life. Unlike you OP, I hold the most rage for the two cops, Lenk and the other guy who helped set this up. I don't want to spoil anything but if we're going to discuss it, I personally think it's pretty obvious that at least four pieces of evidence were planted. The key, the bullet, the vehicle and the blood were all obviously planted. I am 50/50 on whether the bones were planted or not. It was also very obvious just by watching the video tapes that the 16 year olds confession was coerced. And what I don't understand, is how cops, attorney's and the judge who have all been in the justice system their whole lives can't see this plain as day. So infuriating. Kal Torak fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 20:33
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Yeah, there are probably just going to have to be spoilers in the discussion, so be prepared for that, but I imagine most people watching this knew the outcome anyway (I did). I just didn't want to put any spoilery past episode 1 in the OP. Really though, I don't know who to despise the most, to be honest. The top 5 definitely include James Lenk and Andrew Colburn - the two obviously crooked cops who planted evidence and had the gall to get up there on the witness stand, smirking their asses off, and spin bald-faced lies. Or it could be Wiegert and Fassbender, the two unbelievably unethical investigators who painstakingly coerced an investigation by practically feeding the 'witness', a learning-disabled 16-year-old boy with an IQ of 70, information bit by bit that made him implicate himself without even knowing it. My god, the videos of those confessions are just beyond heartbreaking to watch. This kid thinks he's going to make it back to school in time for sixth period and the cops do not even explain 'Well, you just confessed to a murder' and he doesn't even *get it*. And then Kratz on top of those 4 guys makes 5 pretty evil-seeming and corrupt individuals. Kratz just... He was the head DA, he was in charge of the show, and he just disgusts more than words can express. The fact that grandstands to the jury pointing at Steven Avery saying "One man and one man alone is responsible for this heinous act" and then a month later is prosecuting Brendan Dassey for the same murder. The cognitive dissonance is beyond astounding. And the things he said, and the way he said them, just... *shudder* But again, it's very difficult to... entirely know what's what, obviously. And I'm willing to entertain theories that Steven Avery *may have* committed this murder. But even regardless of that, Brendan Dassey at the very least has no business being in prison. edit: Something that REALLY got to me was seeing Andrew loving Colburn being the cop who is physically escorting Dassey to his sentencing. I mean seriously, what the *gently caress*. kaworu fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 21:07
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Wow, I ended up burning through this in 2 days. Absolutely compelling viewing, just kept wanting to see where the story went next. Reminded me a lot of the paradise lost, WM3 films. In the end I feel as though justice wasn't delivered and the state has avoided the appeals due to the corruption and liability reviewing these cases would open up. That being said according to some articles I read it heavily leans towards Avery's innocence. But the 4 key pieces of evidence are rotten as gently caress and not have read any background I was holding out hope until the last episode which just left me numb. Dimebag fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 21:18
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The whole thing made me pissed off and sad at the same time. I'm of the belief that they thought they had the right guy and were doing the right things... but the end doesn't justify the means. I wanted more episodes.
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Dec 23, 2015 06:15
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About halfway through it and my wife and I probably said "what the gently caress" no less than 50 times so far. I'm a pretty cynical person when it comes to the legal system and law enforcement in general. This show is downright shocking.
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Dec 23, 2015 06:27
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I don't know about y'all but in my opinion the most awful person was Mike Halbech. That shifty motherfucker can't stop walking in front of the cameras and, smirk on his face the entire time, calling everyone liars and saying "We love the police." He feeds off the media attention and uses it to poo poo on the entire Avery family every single chance he gets. He pays exactly zero attention to the trial and the evidence that is available in favor of eating out of the cops' hands. I think the worst part is that he was actually paying attention he would have realized there was a possibility that someone other than Steven Avery killed his sister. Christ, what a weak, disgusting piece of poo poo.
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Dec 23, 2015 06:36
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The Clap posted:I don't know about y'all but in my opinion the most awful person was Mike Halbech. That shifty motherfucker can't stop walking in front of the cameras and, smirk on his face the entire time, calling everyone liars and saying "We love the police." He feeds off the media attention and uses it to poo poo on the entire Avery family every single chance he gets. He pays exactly zero attention to the trial and the evidence that is available in favor of eating out of the cops' hands. I totally agree, there are some points in court where the family seems to be undertaking some critical thinking about the case, however he still comes out and shits all over them. Both he and the ex boyfriend seem as though they should have been questioned harder I mean they sent that evangelical loon and her daughter almost right to the car in the yard.
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Dec 23, 2015 06:41
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The Clap posted:I don't know about y'all but in my opinion the most awful person was Mike Halbech. That shifty motherfucker can't stop walking in front of the cameras and, smirk on his face the entire time, calling everyone liars and saying "We love the police." He feeds off the media attention and uses it to poo poo on the entire Avery family every single chance he gets. He pays exactly zero attention to the trial and the evidence that is available in favor of eating out of the cops' hands. I find him less repulsive than Len Kachinsky. Talk about a piece of crap taking advantage of a mentally deficient kid. That guy should wipe that smug look off his face and be ashamed for his part in that fiasco. But barely. There are few shining lights in these 10 hours.
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Dec 23, 2015 06:45
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Lipumira posted:I find him less repulsive than Len Kachinsky. Talk about a piece of crap taking advantage of a mentally deficient kid. That guy should wipe that smug look off his face and be ashamed for his part in that fiasco. But barely. There are few shining lights in these 10 hours. Oh for sure, Len is a truly terrible human being but Mike bothers me a bit more because of how consistently he appears in front of the cameras and appears to be relishing in the process of the trial and the publicity surrounding it. Len's a more obvious, in-your-face piece of poo poo whereas Mike Halbech takes a little bit longer to let his shittiness bubble to the surface.
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Dec 23, 2015 07:05
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On a positive note, I wanted to add that Dean Strang (one of Steve Avery's lawyers, the more sensitive and eloquent of the two with the dark hair) was one of the very, very few bright spots in this documentary. Not that Buting also didn't come across as competent, but he clearly wasn't as emotionally involved/invested in what was going on as Strang was, or as emotionally tuned into the case. Strang really functions as the audience's surrogate (or he did for me) in terms of very often voicing my thoughts/feelings aloud in the doc in some of his off the cuff interviews in the car, and also during the trial at times. He honestly comes across as the one lawyer who truly has his conscience and a strong moral compass guiding his actions and statements, and I am really not saying that just to... suck up to the fact that he was the lawyer for the defense and said a lot of things I agreed with. Again, not to slight Jerry Buting, but Strang was the one who seemed really talented and eloquent. If 7 of the Jurors voted Not Guilty at the start of deliberations, I'm sure it had entirely to do with the massive difference in presentation and demeanor and honesty between a guy like Strang and a guy like Kratz. I honestly found what that excused juror said really troubling and worrying - about how "tired and weak" a lot of the jurors were compared to the two stubborn ones who were set on voting guilty. In the context of deliberations going on for 4 days and there being a Not Guilty verdict on the lesser of the two major counts, well... It sounds kinda strongly like that could have easily wound up being a hung jury under different circumstances. But not in that county, and not for that case. I honestly would have been shocked if the officials there were going to let the jurors go home without a guilty verdict  What's also really sad is that if Dassey had the money to hire lawyers as good as Strang/Buting from the start instead of getting hosed in the rear end with corrupt or inexperienced public defender after public defender, his case would have gone a lot differently and could easily have had a better outcome. I can only imagine this was part of the rift that formed within the family and had to do with stuff like Brendan's apparent stepdad (Tadych I think?) testifying with Bobby Dassey I think it was about the hosed up timing, and acting as one another alibis. I wonder how he felt when Kratz, the same prosecutor he testified for in putting away Avery, turned around and put his son in prison for the same crime. Really, was anyone else so revolted by Ken Kratz that they had to mute the drat thing and put on captions when he spoke because his voice was so utterly repellent? Imagining that voice reading some of those texts he sent is fairly amusing, though. Perhaps I'll just refer to him as "THE PRIZE" from now on, the one that all hot young tall nymphs who were just victims of domestic abuse want to get with. kaworu fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 08:47
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There are no happy endings
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Dec 23, 2015 10:14
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The Clap posted:I don't know about y'all but in my opinion the most awful person was Mike Halbech. That shifty motherfucker can't stop walking in front of the cameras and, smirk on his face the entire time, calling everyone liars and saying "We love the police." He feeds off the media attention and uses it to poo poo on the entire Avery family every single chance he gets. He pays exactly zero attention to the trial and the evidence that is available in favor of eating out of the cops' hands. That guy got a cushy job working in the video room for the Green Bay Packers right after all that, which I kinda doubt would have happened otherwise. In a profile I saw of him online he was talking about going through all this with the death of his sister as one of the things that made him perfect for the job.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:09
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Finished this. There was a lot to talk about. The two biggest unanswered questions were: Who deleted the voicemails, and why? And how exactly did the bones get in the yard? The voicemails are certainly strange. The ex-boyfriend (or was it the brother?) figured out the password, and created an account online so he can fiddle with her records. Why? Voicemails were obviously deleted after she disappeared but it was never brought up again. Avery obviously couldn't do that. Why would someone do that? With the bones, just how exactly did they get there? They mentioned a bonfire, and people were there. Wouldn't people smell a body being burned? I imagine it is not a pleasant smell that could be easily hidden by smoke. That leads to a whole other list of questions. If they weren't burned there, then where? Or even better, WHY? Did they even present a motive other than "he did it"? Not to mention, it makes no sense for him to hide a car when the day before he was crushing them in his yard. I understand he isn't exactly bright but it had to have occurred to him? I think that is the most disgusting part of this series. This is a family of mentally deficient people, and an entire police department completely ruining their lives because they screwed up a case so bad it was going to bankrupt them. There are so many disgusting figures with power in this case, it is just unreal. I felt ill both times those cops got the kid to admit to the crime.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:18
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The Clap posted:I don't know about y'all but in my opinion the most awful person was Mike Halbech. That shifty motherfucker can't stop walking in front of the cameras and, smirk on his face the entire time, calling everyone liars and saying "We love the police." He feeds off the media attention and uses it to poo poo on the entire Avery family every single chance he gets. He pays exactly zero attention to the trial and the evidence that is available in favor of eating out of the cops' hands. This is an interesting point. I've never had a family member murdered but above all else, I would want them to punish the right person. I am always very surprised when the family is so adamant about the person on trial being the one who did it and there is no room in their mind to any alternative. I never understand why that is...are they just so blinded by rage that they just want someone punished, whoever that might be? I don't see how you can sit in that courtroom and not have some serious doubts they have the right person. Kal Torak fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 16:47
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CortezFantastic posted:Finished this. There was a lot to talk about. In my opinion, the bones weren't burned there but were actually moved there. They were probably burned in the pit further away and moved with the barrell that also had bones in it. I am 50/50 on whether or not the bones were moved by the killer or the cops. I think it would have been difficult for the cops to do it out in the open like that, but they had the farm locked down a long time and could have done it in the darkness of night. I am not a conspiracy theorist at all...I hate conspiracies but in this case, I think it's fairly obvious the other evidence was planted so I wouldn't be shocked if the bones were as well. The other thing I was thinking about when reflecting on this is how the D.A. was so adamant nobody would be smart enough to frame Avery like this, but then believes that that 16 year old kid was smart enough to clean up a bloody murder leaving absolutely no trace of cleaning up and no trace of DNA or any evidence that he was there. No competent person would believe this. So if we all think Avery did not do this...or at least there is a really good chance he didn't....who did?
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Dec 23, 2015 16:53
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Kal Torak posted:So if we all think Avery did not do this...or at least there is a really good chance he didn't....who did? This is the really and truly hosed thing, to me - by focusing the investigation almost entirely on Avery and nigh-refusing to follow up on any other real leads, as far as we can tell, it's extremely unlikely we'll ever know. The police dictate what they investigate and who they investigate, and as the lawyer said, they had extreme "tunnel-vision" on this case - at best. And as a result, regardless of all these questions and the eventual fates of Avery and Dassey, it is extremely unlikely we will ever get any sort of idea as to who the real killer was. Obviously, her roommate (who seemed to be an ex-boyfriend of some sort?) not calling her in as missing for 4 days was also fishy, while those phone records were being deleted. Wasn't it the roommate who admitted to guessing her password, or was that another acquaintance of hers?
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Dec 23, 2015 17:22
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Kal Torak posted:So if we all think Avery did not do this...or at least there is a really good chance he didn't....who did? The obvious choices are the ex-boyfriend and the brother. I immediately started suspecting the boyfriend when he was giving a sort of press conference after the car was found and he was obviously coached. When asked about whether the search had found any evidence he said something to the effect of "any evidence we may or may not have found was handled only by professionals". Why would he be so evasive? Any normal person would be thrilled to have finally found some evidence after a manic, multi-day search. Not saying this means he's guilty but an ex-boyfriend sure has a better possible motive than Avery had. The brother on the other hand used the murder of his sister to put himself in the spotlight at every possible opportunity. There are people who reluctantly take on the role of family spokesperson in times like this and he is not one of them. As another poster said, if a family member of mine were killed in such a fashion, I can't imagine being so vengeful that I would immediately latch on to the first person accused of the crime and insist only they were responsible, especially given the mountain of evidence that this case was mishandled or even deliberately staged. Again not saying this makes him a likely killer, but as with the ex-boyfriend, at least the brother has a remotely plausible motive. As a result of the murder the brother got famous and used it to jump-start a cushy career in a place not known for those. Most depressing to me is that cases like this really highlight how 12 complete idiots get to decide the outcome of most criminal proceedings. All it takes are a couple of complete shitheads on a jury to completely ruin a person's life forever. I have to admit though, the part that appalled me the most was seeing Avery's girlfriend's parole officer essentially make breaking up with Avery a part of her parole. How in the gently caress is that legal?
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Dec 23, 2015 17:32
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I've seen a lot of people wondering how this could possibly have 10 hours worth of material after watching the first episode, and I don't want to spoil anything at all but just say "keep watching" because you have no loving idea how weird this gets Episode 3: oh my loving poo poo the interrogation video where they try to get his 16 year old cousin to say she was shot in the head... "So what happened to her head?" "He cut her hair?" "What else happened to her head? Come on, we know it, you just have to say it..." JESUS gently caress
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Dec 23, 2015 18:30
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precision posted:I've seen a lot of people wondering how this could possibly have 10 hours worth of material after watching the first episode, and I don't want to spoil anything at all but just say "keep watching" because you have no loving idea how weird this gets What is unbelievable to me is how a judge and jury seeing that doesn't realize it's obviously a false and coerced confession. It just blows my mind.
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Dec 23, 2015 19:31
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You know, I am keeping an open mind through this even after watching all 10 hours, and there is a part of me that does see that he could have done this - I am not denying the possibilities. Steven Avery was far from perfect, and there is some sketchy stuff concerning violence toward women in some of his letters, and in his background, to some degree. But that aside, I see no way that murder was committed in the manner described by the cops, and there is absolutely *no way* that Brendan Dassey was involved at all. Frankly, I see Dassey as the biggest victim in this entire vicious debacle. He was practically collateral damage. It's insane that case was even brought to trial. On another note, how distasteful and garish and over the top was that black and white striped prison jumpsuit and big black gloves they marched Steven into the court with every day? Good god, those people.
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Dec 23, 2015 19:35
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The most egregious rear end in a top hat was the keystone kop-cum-sketch artist for about 1,000 reasons, the most amazing being him insinuating that Avery was guilty of the rape despite the DNA exculpation.
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Dec 23, 2015 19:58
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Kal Torak posted:What is unbelievable to me is how a judge and jury seeing that doesn't realize it's obviously a false and coerced confession. It just blows my mind. This is the same trial where the prosecution said "innocent people don't confess" and "reasonable doubt is for innocent people." It's very possible Avery did do it, but the kid who could barely tie his shoelaces being railroaded is a loving disgusting travesty of justice
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Dec 23, 2015 20:44
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a worthy uhh posted:The most egregious rear end in a top hat was the keystone kop-cum-sketch artist for about 1,000 reasons, the most amazing being him insinuating that Avery was guilty of the rape despite the DNA exculpation. Did you notice that he had framed the sketch right next to the mug shot, and had it on the wall of his office as a TROPHY. That is so unbelievably sick. And to the above post, don't forget that the Sheriff's explanation for why they didn't frame Steven was "Well, if we wanted him out of the picture it would have just been easier to, you know, kill him." Unbelievable to hear statements like that being said.
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Dec 23, 2015 21:13
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I know this sounds a little over the top, but has anyone brought up the idea that the cops could have actually murdered this woman for the specific purpose of framing Avery for it? Several of these people had been living with the sword of Damocles over their head ever since Avery was exonerated for the first attack, and then right as these depositions are getting started she disappears? She was known to have visited Avery several times before for the magazine she worked for, so I do think its possible(however remotely) that she was targeted for that reason. There could have been someone(Colburn perhaps?) staked out at Avery's place, and when they saw her leave they grabbed her. Obviously there's not any real evidence supporting that, but these guys were capable of some heinous poo poo and it wouldn't really shock me if they were also capable of straight up murdering somebody. Their careers and even their lives as free men were at stake after all.
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Dec 23, 2015 21:25
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The cops had more of a motive than Avery did.
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Dec 23, 2015 21:55
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It wouldn't surprise me at all. I think it's more likely than Avery committing the murder - absolutely. That doesn't mean that it absolutely wasn't Steven Avery, because I still consider him as a suspect - I sort of have to, because I truly don't know what happened and I'm trying to remain impartial through this. But he had no real motive, while the policemen being charged did. As you say, their livelihood, their reputations, and their financial security and future were going to be at stake as a result of that civil suit. And those depositions really had to have hammered that point home to each and every one of them. Also, did anyone else notice that they actually had Andrew Colburn be the cop who physically took both Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey and escorted them to sentencing? My god, that sickened me more than I can say. Beyond reprehensible. This was so, so obviously personal for Colburn/Lenk and obviously the whole upper echelon of the Manitowoc County Sheriff's office. And it's so hosed up, because after he was arrested Steven was forced to take a lowball settlement in that civil suit just to pay for his lawyers, as the $400,000 the state had been intending to pay him for his wrongful improvement was withdrawn when he was accused. And as such, NOTHING about that 1985 case gently caress-up (and thus nothing about the depositions) could be discussed or used in this case  They really hosed him good.edit: Am I the only one who feels legitimately... affected by this? I'm not even quite sure why. It's the combination of the blatant injustice of what's going on, and just how... intellectually ill-equipped these people were to deal with the situations they found themselves in. Particularly Dassey. The phone conversation between him and his mother, where neither of them knew what "inconsistent" meant? That just utterly broke my heart completely. These people (pretty much the entire Avery family, not just those two but obviously Barb's Husband and Bobby Dassey who testified against Steven) simply did NOT have the mental equipment to deal with reasonably intelligent, malicious people looking to take advantage of them and pull their their strings like puppets. Which guys like Wiegert, Kachinsky, Kratz, etc did to GREAT effect. Also, going back and watching the first episode again after finishing is a really a rough experience - seeing him released from prison after 18 years with tears in his eyes gently saying he felt free and wasn't angry, forgiving and hugging his accuser... I am truly sorry, I have such a hard time as seeing this man as a cold-blooded murderer and rapist. I really, truly do. He may not be that smart, he probably never smelled very good, and I probably wouldn't want to be his friend in real life, to be absolutely frank. But goddammit. So much of this boils down to issues of class and prejudice, really. The Averys are, to put it bluntly, "poor white trash", and were apparently prominently known as such within the community. kaworu fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 22:24
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The problem is there was so much reasonable doubt that it is impossible for me to say he was guilty. Much like the Staircase, this is something where I just can't say he did it because of that. The moment you see a vial of his blood that could've only been opened and used by police is the moment I would never be able to vote guilty.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:32
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Kal Torak posted:What is unbelievable to me is how a judge and jury seeing that doesn't realize it's obviously a false and coerced confession. It just blows my mind. Try to find some tapes of police interrogations. This was especially bad, but there's a reason that the best advice is to never, ever talk to cops under any circumstances. The police can be coercive as gently caress as a matter of regular, day to day business.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:54
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Paradoxish posted:Try to find some tapes of police interrogations. This was especially bad, but there's a reason that the best advice is to never, ever talk to cops under any circumstances. The police can be coercive as gently caress as a matter of regular, day to day business. There is an enormous difference between using investigators using coercive tactics to get a confession out of someone of reasonable intelligence, and using coercive tactics against a mentally disabled child with an IQ of 70, though. I think it just goes a little beyond normal coercive techniques - remember that point when Wiegert breaks in frustration and straight-up tells the kid that Teresa was shot in the head before he came up with it? It was so clear that he didn't have a clue what was going. That was not a normal interrogation by any means. He thought he was gonna go back for sixth period and hand in his project, then go home and watch Wrestlemania and see John Cena and the Undertaker beat the crap out of some guys, and was just blankly trying to do what they wanted so they would go away. kaworu fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 00:07
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I want a movie of this where Len Kachinsky is played by William H.Macy
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Dec 24, 2015 00:21
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:I want a movie of this where Len Kachinsky is played by William H.Macy I thought he was like a dead ringer for Martin Freeman c. Fargo season 1. But interestingly, those are two variations on the same character more or less that we were reminded of.
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Dec 24, 2015 00:55
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Saw this article posted yesterday: http://fox6now.com/2015/12/22/netflix-documentary-on-steven-avery-case-generating-buzz-but-some-say-it-doesnt-tell-the-whole-story/ Of course Kratz (Prosecutor) would say it 'doesn't tell the whole story'. He seemed like a real piece of human garbage in the doc, and had his license suspended for rampant sexual harassment.
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Dec 24, 2015 02:12
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Honestly, towards the end, it got pretty obvious that it was biased towards Avery being innocent. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I think you would indeed need to hear from the cops for the film-makers to be able to call it an impartial documentary, which they seem to be doing. I also wonder if what's happened following Serial had anything to do with their decision to get it all together and put it out there at this point in time. I feel pretty much the same as when I finished that actually. Avery could well have committed the crime, but there's no way he should have gone down based on what was presented to the jury. With regards to the Halbach brother, whilst I'd like to think I'd view everything with a calm, analytical eye, I have no idea how I'd react in that situation, so I can't really judge him for his apparent weird behaviour. So many others made so angry though, especially that Michael Gove looking fucker Kachinsky. The scene between his investigator and Brendan was one of the most awful things I've ever seen in a documentary. What a compelling show though, haven't binged anything in that way for years.
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Dec 24, 2015 02:40
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CortezFantastic posted:The problem is there was so much reasonable doubt that it is impossible for me to say he was guilty. Much like the Staircase, this is something where I just can't say he did it because of that. The moment you see a vial of his blood that could've only been opened and used by police is the moment I would never be able to vote guilty. Yes, the blood was bad. Seeing that hole that was clearly made by a syringe makes it obvious someone took some blood from there. But the one that really got me was the license plate and how Colburn called it in like 5 days before it was "officially" found. You just know he was staring right at the vehicle when he made that call and then planted it in the junk yard.
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Dec 24, 2015 02:50
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Basebf555 posted:I know this sounds a little over the top, but has anyone brought up the idea that the cops could have actually murdered this woman for the specific purpose of framing Avery for it? Several of these people had been living with the sword of Damocles over their head ever since Avery was exonerated for the first attack, and then right as these depositions are getting started she disappears? She was known to have visited Avery several times before for the magazine she worked for, so I do think its possible(however remotely) that she was targeted for that reason. There could have been someone(Colburn perhaps?) staked out at Avery's place, and when they saw her leave they grabbed her. I doubt the cops would go that far. That seems way over the top. I honestly wonder if those two guys who gave each other alibis were involved. Sorry, I'm really bad with names so I don't remember them. But I found that odd and that's where I thought the documentary was going but they kind of dropped it after that. I believe that since she was last seen on the Avery property and the body was burned relatively close to there, there's a good chance she was intercepted on her way off the property. Someone who was familiar with the Avery family and Steve Avery's past had to be involved.
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Dec 24, 2015 03:10
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Kal Torak posted:I doubt the cops would go that far. That seems way over the top. I know its movie type poo poo but so are a whole bunch of things the police almost certainly did in this case. Edit: Also remember we wouldn't be talking about some massive conspiracy here. It's basically the work of like 5 or 6 guys. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 03:13
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Basebf555 posted:I know its movie type poo poo but so are a whole bunch of things the police almost certainly did in this case. I think coordinating the murder of an innocent young woman by 5 or 6 law enforcement officers would be a massive conspiracy and extremely unlikely.
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Dec 24, 2015 03:34
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Kal Torak posted:I think coordinating the murder of an innocent young woman by 5 or 6 law enforcement officers would be a massive conspiracy and extremely unlikely. Of course its extremely unlikely. Its easily just as likely Avery did it, there's no clear answers to be had in this thing. But no, 5 or 6 people isn't a massive conspiracy in the way I'm talking about. My point is its not as difficult to keep a secret if only a few people know about it.
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Dec 24, 2015 03:40
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I've been wrapped up in thought about all this since finishing the show a couple of days ago. I have little doubt, nothing anywhere close to reasonable, that Brendan Dassey is innocent. Everything that happened to him is horrific and that there's been no retribution for him or his family is a tragedy. Steven Avery? I still don't know. It still feels like a lofty fiction that the police would, completely off the record, discover the burnt remains of Halbach as well as her vehicle, and then proceed to plant several pieces evidence, including these charred bones, across the salvage yard. What is more likely a scenario in my mind (and bear in mind I still feel on the fence about everything), is that the vehicle and remains were legitimately on that property, and Lenk/Colborn/maybe more planted the key and the blood because they didn't want to see this symbol of their ineptitude escape their grasp. None of this really answers the "why?" of the murder itself, which is a big part of what makes a lot of this so dramatic.
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Dec 24, 2015 04:40
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