Making a Murderer - American Law Enforcement at its Finest

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Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

I think Colburn found the car with the body in the back and used it as a way to nail Avery.

I don't know who killed her but I think Colburn and Lenk set everything up from there.

# ¿ Dec 28, 2015 19:20

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:50

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

computer parts posted:

Yeah, that does seem more plausible, burning a body seems a step too far but I guess it could work.

The only issue is that it doesn't answer who killed her, but no one really has a motive for doing that.

As shady as the cops are, I really don't see them killing someone to do this. It wouldn't fit with the license plate call either.

But I think they're both extremely capable of framing Avery once they discovered everything else.

# ¿ Dec 28, 2015 19:53

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

I just have a hard time thinking he did it when there's not a shred of evidence to prove he did that wasn't very obviously planted.

# ¿ Dec 28, 2015 21:16

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

Measly Twerp posted:

He didn't get that either. The money he did get was for settling the lawsuit for $250k if I recall.

He got $400k for settling and I believe that other amount that was supposed to compensate him for loss of earnings or whatever was $450k

# ¿ Dec 28, 2015 22:31

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

XboxPants posted:

That'd make a lot of sense. Colburn finds car with dead body in it, calls it in, turns out it's the missing woman. Panic and/or plotting ensues.

I wonder who all of the people who were on the hook for that $36 million were - remember, the government insurance didn't cover it, so it was coming directly out of the officials' pockets. That's a lot of loving money.

It would've been a ruling for substantially less than that but still enough to financially cripple those individuals, which is exactly why I can't see this as anything other than a situation they saw convenient to frame Avery.

# ¿ Dec 29, 2015 05:44

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

If I ever saw Kratz in public, I would be really tempted to kill him

# ¿ Dec 31, 2015 01:53

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

Whether or not Avery did it, I don't know, but anyone who doesn't think that key was planted is a total idiot IMO.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2016 07:58

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

Eau de MacGowan posted:

What was the deal with Kachinsky having his private investigator interrogate Brendan and have him draw up a bunch of rape diagrams? I thought he was going make Brendan confess to a bunch of nonsense so that he could prove how easily manipulated he was, but apparently the drawings Brendan did actually got submitted as evidence for the prosecution?

Kachinsky, despite his client's wishes, just wanted the plea deal, so he had O'Kelly do all of this with the plan of it being rehashed the following day with the detectives to try to further legitimize the story and essentially force Dassey into a plea. Instead, it backfired because Dassey told the truth to the detectives instead of the bullshit story they solicited from him the first time and Kachinsky got burned for steering his client toward the detectives without him present.

I don't necessarily think Kachinsky was in cahoots, I just think he's lazy and a plea was an easy way to wash his hands of the whole thing.

I also thought the initial purpose was to prove Dassey an unreliable witness but welp....

The more I think about this, the more I think Scott Tadych was responsible for Halbach's death.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 15:14

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

For me, I think there's enough evidence to reasonably believe whatever happened happened on the Avery property, but I just don't think Avery did it. He's got a hosed up history, but he's strangely always atoned for his actions and Tadych's own personal history is much more in line with what seems to have happened to Halbach. His alibi is incredibly weak. His history leads me to believe he's far more capable of a random act of violence like this than Avery.

People make a huge deal of the cat thing, and rightfully so given that it's horrendous and all, but it's also something that I can easily see a bunch of moron hillbillies doing in a way that's less vicious (in their eyes) and more a really disgusting way to humor themselves. It's an absolutely sick act, but considering all the context of these people and the situation, I don't really view it as something that would be used to exemplify his potential ability to murder a human because I think he's just really loving dumb and didn't understand the gravity of what he was doing to the cat. Avery is a weird, hosed up guy but I also see him as being a mostly decent person in his own really odd way.

I don't know if the "trust of the police" thing is so much actual trust in the police rather than an excessive level of naivety that makes them believe there's really no way they could get in trouble for something they didn't do. I think these people are too dumb to see the grand scheme of anything and so they really truly believe that whether or not they actually did a thing will override everything else. It's why Avery is so steadfast in sitting in a jail cell forever rather than taking a deal or not putting much thought into the situation with the juror leaving. I think he's just a really naive guy from a naive family who can't see beyond his actual fault to realize the context of the situation he's in.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 17:52

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

It was a test that's really only reliably accurate when the result comes back positive, so it's not a surprise the prosecution would rely on it heavily.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 22:03

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

MrBuddyLee posted:

Actually, the DNA lady was totally right about the fact that the test indicated a positive for Teresa's DNA on the bullet and that the presence of self-contamination in the null sample shouldn't disqualify the result. The "contamination re-do" rule the defense was arguing about was overly strict, and the DNA lady was trying to choose her words carefully so she could explain that without overstepping.

Teresa's DNA clearly ended up in the test tube the bullet was washed in, and not in the null tube. The argument then becomes "how'd Teresa's DNA get on the bullet" and the most likely explanation is that teresa's blood seeped into the bullet's crater on the garage floor and the bleaching didn't fully sterilize the cratered bullet. You can also argue that the police planted it. I don't think you can make a reasonable argument that Teresa's DNA in the lab test tube came from contamination.

As for the lack of EDTA on the Rav4 samples, EDTA is a stable substance and doesn't degrade in the environment. Since there was no EDTA in the RAV4 Avery blood smears, then the blood in Teresa's car came from Avery directly and not from the tube. There's no other reasonable explanation for Avery's blood in Teresa's car besides "Avery bled on her car while loving around in it."

Why no Avery fingerprints in the car? He wore gloves according to Brendan, but the process of putting gloves on in the dark with a bloody finger would almost definitely result in Avery's blood on the outside of the gloves. Which would transfer from the outside of the gloves to the interior of the car.

Why didn't Avery crush the car? Because he realized that would implicate a family member if the car was later found, and he told Brendan that burning the body was a better solution.

So send him to a mental ward. Someone who clearly killed and probably raped a woman and encouraged a teenager to help him shouldn't be free to do it again. His family said his uncontrollable rage was becoming a problem to live with.

I was all in favor of the guy getting $34 million from the state, and his heir/family should receive that. But committing a murder after his release shouldn't be ignored just because he got falsely imprisoned once.

You have a reasonable explanation for how Avery's blood is all over the inside of Teresa's car? If not, that's enough evidence to convict right there.

Particularly on top of the fact that there's no reasonable timeline that has Teresa being murdered off the Avery property.

The level of detail of much of Brendan's two interviews, in totality, is way too in sync with dozens of pieces of physical evidence to be completely bullshit. Just because some details don't match up or some of the techniques were leading doesn't mean you disregard the entirety of both interviews. Brendan brought up rape first. I believe he brought up stabbing first. I believe he brought up bleaching the garage with Avery first and getting bleach on his pants, and the details about where the RAV4 was moved, and where the body was moved various times. The kid was too accurate, and wasn't led into EVERY fact.

Yeah, it's a textbook on how mistakes can be made in an interview, but that doesn't mean you throw the entire thing out. Read both interviews in totality and tell me Brendan didn't see some horrible poo poo go down and then lie and cover it up for months before leaking a mishmash of truth and cover story out in his interviews.

Honestly, the worst thing about Brendan's case is attorney Len's behavior, which was unethical and criminal. But that all happened long after the March 1st Brendan interview.

Steven Avery admits to standing with Brendan at a bonfire, in a pit behind his house where Teresa's corpse was found, on the night of the murder. He stoked it with tires and a car seat to get it to burn hotter. It's mindblowing that anyone can look at that and reasonably think he wasn't torching a body.

Brendan brought a lot of poo poo up first because he pretty much exhausted every horrific act possible as they attempted to get him to say "shot her in the head" ad nauseum.

And I don't see what him saying rape first has to do with anything considering literally no one has any idea whatsoever if she was raped and the entirety of rape being involved here is based off of the plot of a loving movie that a borderline retarded kid recited from memory because he just wanted to go back to school.

Truther Vandross fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Jan 5, 2016

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 06:40

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

Is there magic blood bleach that will allow you to scrub up an obscene amount of blood flawlessly while also leaving all other blemishes in tact?

I love the "Well Dassey's confession fits the rest of the case" theorists considering the confession was piece-by-piece solicited by the detectives specifically for that purpose.

Truther Vandross fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jan 5, 2016

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 17:04

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

Do they know for sure that Steven is the person in question on the property? Because that seems a lot closer to something Scott would do and the "gave the sister's address as a cover" thing sounds like something the prosecution would say to keep the attention on Steven and away from people wondering why the information given was from the Tadych household. How would anyone even know that the wrong address was given by Steven to get her to come out there?

I just can't take anything starting with "Kratz said" at face value.

e: Plus the car in question was the Tadych's car wasn't it?

Truther Vandross fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jan 5, 2016

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 19:55

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

I would like to know the capacity in which it was brought up in the trial and how much attention it was given by Kratz and company. Assuming Ricciardi and Demos are being forthcoming about their claim that they paid attention to the things that Kratz gave the most attention to during the trial and his press conferences, etc., it would make me wonder how flimsy the evidence regarding the towel thing and the creepy phone calls was. It seems like such a slam dunk thing to bring up but if Kratz basically mentions it in passing during the trial, it would seem to me to be something that wouldn't hold up if he pressed too hard, and thus he didn't give too much focus to it.

I'd also like to hear what Strang has to say about those particular pieces of evidence.

That, to me, seems like something you would want to make a big deal of and if it wasn't made a big deal of, I find a hard time believing it held any real weight.

This entire thing is frustrating because it seems like everything here (the doc included now) has a moderate amount to a shitton of stupidity attached to it and it all just kind of runs together into a muddy mess.

Truther Vandross fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jan 5, 2016

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 20:42

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

if you sit in a room with Brendan Dassey for an hour, let alone three, and cannot discern that he is learning disabled, you are also learning disabled.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 16:02

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

MrBuddyLee posted:

He told his cousin he saw a bound woman and a body, and that he helped clean it up, and that he was worried that the blood might "come up out of the concrete".

I understand that they both recanted those statements later, but I think the narrative makes much more sense if you assume his cousin told the truth until she realized Brendan might go to jail, and then six months later she said she made everything up. She told the initial story to three counselors in January, to her parents in February, and then finally to police in the presence of her parents in March. She only changed her story months later, once Brendan was on trial for murder.

Her initial story is corroborated by the bleach stain in the garage and by Brendan's admission (which he still holds to this day) that he helped clean up a 3'x3' red stain (which he thought might be blood) in the garage with bleach on Halloween night before moving out to the bonfire and burning the clothes he used to clean the stain up with.

The garage/concrete wasn't part of the media narrative at the time. She would have had to invent a story that matched facts not publicly available.

Are you Ken Kratz?

# ¿ Jan 8, 2016 04:03

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

Solice Kirsk posted:

Is the second season going to focus more on Brendan? Or are they going to pick another case all together? Personaly I'd like it to be about another weird case.

It's about Avery and the follow up appeals, etc. Probably going to be a giant infomercial for the Innocence Project tbh.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2016 13:54

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:50

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

Didn't they also tear up the garage concrete where there were cracks and there was no blood there either?

# ¿ Nov 22, 2016 23:17

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Making a Murderer - American Law Enforcement at its Finest