Making a Murderer - American Law Enforcement at its Finest

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Kampfbereit: Sep 6, 2011

The REAL Goobusters posted:

Man gently caress Ken Kratz and gently caress theresa's brother jesus christ

This, plus all cops and prosecutors. But that brother angered me more than anyone else. His smug loving face makes me want to artisanally drown him in my piss.

Seriously, why even spend all that money on a mock trial? Whenever a crime happens, why can't you just have one fat retarded slob of a cop point to a random name in a phone book and then put that person away for life? Saves millions and the result is the same.

# ¿ Dec 26, 2015 19:34

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 10:59

Kampfbereit: Sep 6, 2011

It's nice to see that cops all over the US are using the exact same methods when they are coercing mentally challenged people and/or children. They did the same thing to the West Memphis Three, they focussed on the retarded kid and forced a confession out of him, then used that to convict the others.

Take a look at the WM3 (Arkansas, 1994), Murder on a Sunday Morning (Florida, 2000), Central Park Five (NYC, 1989), and Capturing the Friedmans (NY, 1987). Cops interrogate children without their parents present, sometimes for HOURS, and promise them that everything will be OK and they can go home if they just "confess". This isn't an anomaly in a small, corrupt rust belt Sheriff's office, it seems to be the national law enforcement norm.

It's baffling that cops still don't understand that they're doing a bad thing. Every LEO interviewed in the above documentaries is so smug and confident, even when the "criminals" have been completely exonerated.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2015 06:52

Kampfbereit: Sep 6, 2011

Grem posted:

Yea, Avery is a turd who threw a cat on a fire, and pulled his dong and a gun on his cousins. His saintly act of "not raping a lady one time" doesn't swerve him off a path to murder. The last couple episodes really revealed that Avery thought he wouldn't get caught again. He tried a clean up as much if not more than PD That was after him. The two kids tearfully recasting their statements read more to me like they know their story os right but can't speak of it or the entire family will fall apart. So they try a last minute recant hail marry and it fails.

"Recant"? Did you not see how the "interrogations" of these mentally subnormal children took place? They had no idea what they were saying, and the piece of poo poo cops threw them under the bus out of incompetence and laziness. All their initial statements said nothing of burning toes, it wasn't until Riegert and Fassbender flat out TOLD them what to say that they "remembered" the "truth".

After three hours of cajoling, Brendan is coerced into making up a horrifying fairy tale, because he thinks that'll get him out of there. After he "confessed" to a rape/murder that exactly ZERO physical evidence supports (no chains, ropes, blood, or hair in the bedroom or anywhere inside the trailer), he thinks he'll get to go back to school for his project report, and those two sadistic cunts just string him along. This is exactly how the cops forced kids to "confess" to crimes they didn't commit in all the other documentaries I mentioned.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2015 11:09

Kampfbereit: Sep 6, 2011

Unzip and Attack posted:

And as stated previously by another poster, the conspiracy could be as small as one man (Lenk) or may only involve one or two other people. This didn't have to be some huge cabal.

Exactly! And don't forget that this is exactly what happened to OJ Simpson, which is mentioned in passing in this documentary. One lazy racist piece of poo poo cop planted blood on his clothes to frame him. The blood had been taken from a lab sample and had EDTA in it. It's not like this hasn't happened before.

If there was a conspiracy to frame Steven, you'd only need Lenk and Colburn to be in on it. Colburn made that really weird call to dispatch about Teresa's plates. They found the key and the magic bullet, which no other cop could find. Both had a lot to lose from the lawsuit.

When the defense put the Calumet cops on the stand, I understood that there was no need for a larger conspiracy. They looked like Brendan's intellectual peers. Even if they did their best, how could one of them keep watch over two bent cops planting tiny objects? And remember when they "found" the key? Lenk and Colburn said "we immediately knew this was the smoking gun, so we didn't want to taint the evidence" or something similar. They saw a car key in a junk yard with thousands of cars, and knew that this car key was relevant?

I'm not saying Steven is innocent, but that the entire case against him is horribly prosecuted. If we believe Brendan's "confession", they stabbed her, cut her hair, slit her throat, carried her (living and bleeding) through the trailer to the garage, shot her eleven times there, and then burned her. Without a single microscopic speck of blood or hair ending up at any of those places. Murderers with an IQ well above 70 have tried to clean tiled bathrooms of blood, and failed. Here, we have two literal retards who somehow have Dexter-ish abilities to fool the CSI. But they also missed the huge smears of her blood in her car. Which they put her in. Because....why? Why did they put her in the car?

Why didn't they crush the car in the crusher, or smelt it in the smelter? Why did they place it so close to the entrance that it was found by that moronic jesus freak after less than 30 minutes of stumbling around randomly? Why not at least clean it? Why remove the key and disable the car (battery terminals were removed). Did he plan to keep this massively incriminating piece of evidence there forever, while at the same time burning everything else?

I think someone else suggested this theory or part of it somewhere, but one reasonable explanation for Colburn's license plate check could have been this:
1. Teresa is murdered by Steven. Her car is placed at the yard, possibly awaiting destruction.
2. Teresa is reported missing, Colburn and Lenk sets out to either find evidence or "find evidence".
3. Colburn sneaks onto the yard, finds her car, calls in the plates, gets confirmation ("99 Toyota?").
4. They don't have a search warrant, so they can't report it, as it would be inadmissible. They also know it would look bad if they were the ones who found the car.
5. (possible, but not necessary) They take Avery's blood from the evidence locker and drip it inside the car, to tie him to it with DNA.
6. They collude with the awful brother and ex-boyfriend (who got special permission to move through cordoned-off areas for some reason).
7. Brother and ex are either told flat out where to look or gently steered there. They could have been shown exactly where the car is, which explains their ultra weird stuttering when asked if they had been to the junk yard before, and why they sent someone else there to insulate themselves from the shenanigans.
8. Lenk and Colburn can't place evidence inside the trailer due to the decision to put Calumet in charge, which is why the key and the bullet is only "discovered" as they gain access to it far later. Outside the trailer, however, is an abundance of evidence. Lenk and Colburn also don't know that there will be a need for DNA evidence inside the trailer, as they have no control over what Riegert makes Brendan say. If Lenk and Colburn forced a confession out of him, they could have steered him away from the indoors blood-letting, and placed the rape and murder outside instead. As Riegert isn't in on the frame job, he honestly thinks he's doing a great job.

You could modify step 1 if you like, and the rest will still hold up. For example:
1. Scott Tadych (possibly aided by Bobby) stops Teresa as she's driving away, rapekills her, puts her in the trunk of her own car (explains her blood in the car), drives to the quarry and burns her, then puts the car on the lot to frame Steven, and puts the charred bones in the pit. Scott and Bobby alibi each other. This fits with Scott's glee over Steven's conviction.
or
1. Lenk pulls Teresa over, kills her, puts body in trunk, burns her at the quarry, plants everything at the yard. Colburn is unaware of this.
or
1. A drifter* kills Teresa. Lenk finds her, puts body in trunk, burns her at the quarry, plants everything at the yard. Colburn is unaware of this.
or
1. Aliens incinerate Teresa with ray guns. Lenk is also an alien. Etc etc.

*Ya, I still think it was a drifter! Leave Avery alone, he's been through a lot dontyaknow.

# ¿ Dec 28, 2015 08:26

Kampfbereit: Sep 6, 2011

sportsgenius86 posted:

As shady as the cops are, I really don't see them killing someone to do this. It wouldn't fit with the license plate call either.

It fits if she was alive when he called it in. Like, he saw her in her car at a stoplight or wherever, called it in to see if it was her, followed her to a remote area and pulled her over. Not saying I believe that's what actually happened, but it possible. When the defense played that call in court, he looked crestfallen.

We also don't know if she died immediately after seeing Avery, or even the same day. She could have gone on a bender, met her secret lover, worked the night shift at a strip club two towns over and so on. Remember that there seems to have been some activity with her cell phone after she was (according to the Kratz timeline) dead and her phone burned.

# ¿ Dec 28, 2015 20:32

Kampfbereit: Sep 6, 2011

EL BROMANCE posted:

Anyway, if you liked that then watch this. Was mentioned in the thread earlier, but it's very good (made in 2000 and fairly low budget, but fits in with this spate of 'true crazy crimes you've never heard of' documentaries we're getting).

Murder on a Sunday Morning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWwf-uHrCIA

I really recommend this to everyone in this thread. It's the same, but different. In MoaSM the cops didn't pin the crime on their nemesis, they just literally arrested the first young black man they saw. Like literally-literally. They drove down the street until they saw someone black, and arrested him. Same interrogation technique though.

MrCodeDude posted:

Way to focus on an incredibly small detail in the much greater story.

Turn it back on, get through 3 episodes, and see if your opinion changes.

Didn't the police/prosecution say she was shot 11 times?

Since she was burned, they could only infer based off the bullet wounds off the remaining bone fragments. Were there really 11 in-tact bone fragments which showed bullet wounds?

Yes, animal lovers are retarded. I saw a documentary about a guy called Hitler or something, and it said that he was a struggling homeless artist and decorated war veteran who really loved dogs. I stopped watching there, two minutes into a ten-part series, as I had received all information I needed to judge his character. I wish I could time travel back to 1920 to shake the hand of this great man. Wonder what happened to him?

On topic: The skull fragments had one or two possible bullet holes (entry/exit?). The cops found 11 empty shell casings on the floor of the garage, so they forced Brendan to confess that she was shot 11 times. Again, 11 shell casings on the immaculately cleaned floor with no trace of the DNA of a woman who had been shot 11 times with a RIFLE on that floor. "There, the floor and my forty broken lawn mowers are immaculately clean! Now I just have to put all the shell casings and that bullet back on the floor."

# ¿ Dec 29, 2015 07:13

Kampfbereit: Sep 6, 2011

Chrtrptnt posted:

Someone brought up the blood in the car but no fingerprints, a cloth or leather glove wouldn't leave fingerprints but could soak up enough blood to leave it on surfaces. Likewise, a surgical glove could be torn, or cut while a person is wearing it and get blood all over it. So I can see how that could happen and I don't find it hard to believe that the Averys have work gloves or mechanics rubber/latex gloves laying around a junkyard.

It appears from the photos shown the Avery blood in the car were not smears that you would typically associate with a blood-soaked glove, but free-falling drops. (This is just my own interpretation, I am in no way a blood spatter expert.)
If he wore gloves he wouldn't have cut his finger as easily.
If he wore gloves for the purpose of not leaving evidence inside the car, and cut his finger so badly it went through the glove (i.e. not just a scrape he wasn't aware of), wouldn't he have noticed he was bleeding and done something about it?
Also, if he killed Teresa, he would have known HER blood was all over the back of the car. So why hide the car on his property at all? Even without his fingerprints, it's massively incriminating.
He left blood around the ignition switch, but not on the key which he held in his bleeding hand? The DNA on the key wasn't blood, but some other type of DNA. If he bled through the glove enough to leave drops there, the fabric strap of the key would probably have at least some blood on it. He could have cleaned it with his super-CSI skillz, but why keep it at all then? He was apparently not going to drive it (removed battery terminals). Why not leave it in the car? The problem I have with the DA's storyline thing is that it requires Avery to constantly flip between being a Dexter crime scene clean-up genius and a guy who plants evidence on himself (keeps the car and the key, cleans up the garage floor but then puts the casings and bullet fragment back).

Chrtrptnt posted:

Would a backyard burn pit get hot enough to destroy that much of a body? This isn't a conspiracy type question, just an honest one. Crematory ovens are purpose built and still take several hours to get a body to ash.

You can burn a body with just wood as fuel, it's still a fairly common cremation practice in parts of Asia. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyre) You stack the wood like a log cabin, so you maximize the oxygen passing through and the surfaces exposed to fire. (Basically you do the opposite of the charcoal making process, where you minimize the temperature by restricting the flow of oxygen.) A pit is a much worse place to burn something for that very reason, but with the right fuel and lots of time you can definitely burn a corpse. Their fire pit seemed on the smaller side, but according to the DA, they had burned tires there. You'd need to tend to the pyre for several hours though, and it needs to be a roaring fire the entire time, otherwise you're just barbecuing the corpse.

Chrtrptnt posted:

I also don't understand completely the vial of blood as being potentially tampered with. Those types of blood vials are filled through the top via needle, so a needle hole doesn't automatically mean that it was used to steal blood for planting evidence.

I'm not sure about this, my only knowledge comes from having been anaemic for years and having had a lot of blood drawn by phlebotomists. After drawing the blood, the phlebotomist places the vial on a mechanical device that gently rolls it back and forth, to mix the blood with the EDTA which is already present in the tubes with purple tops. (The colour of the top determines what's going to happen to the blood and which agents are in the tube. Purple is sort of general when testing for drugs, diseases and deficiencies AFAIK. Other colours are for blood gas analysis etc.) If the tube had just a rubber top with a fairly large hole in it, I imagine blood could leak out and outside stuff could get in, which would be bad for a number of reasons.

The hole in the tube in itself wasn't the biggest problem, it was the fact that the evidence seal on the styrofoam box had been broken and then shoddily resealed with scotch tape.

# ¿ Dec 31, 2015 06:00

Kampfbereit: Sep 6, 2011