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Burned through this over the past few days. Very entertaining and maybe the most infuriating thing I have watched in my life. Unlike you OP, I hold the most rage for the two cops, Lenk and the other guy who helped set this up. I don't want to spoil anything but if we're going to discuss it, I personally think it's pretty obvious that at least four pieces of evidence were planted. The key, the bullet, the vehicle and the blood were all obviously planted. I am 50/50 on whether the bones were planted or not. It was also very obvious just by watching the video tapes that the 16 year olds confession was coerced. And what I don't understand, is how cops, attorney's and the judge who have all been in the justice system their whole lives can't see this plain as day. So infuriating. Kal Torak fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 20:33
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The Clap posted:I don't know about y'all but in my opinion the most awful person was Mike Halbech. That shifty motherfucker can't stop walking in front of the cameras and, smirk on his face the entire time, calling everyone liars and saying "We love the police." He feeds off the media attention and uses it to poo poo on the entire Avery family every single chance he gets. He pays exactly zero attention to the trial and the evidence that is available in favor of eating out of the cops' hands. This is an interesting point. I've never had a family member murdered but above all else, I would want them to punish the right person. I am always very surprised when the family is so adamant about the person on trial being the one who did it and there is no room in their mind to any alternative. I never understand why that is...are they just so blinded by rage that they just want someone punished, whoever that might be? I don't see how you can sit in that courtroom and not have some serious doubts they have the right person. Kal Torak fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 16:47
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CortezFantastic posted:Finished this. There was a lot to talk about. In my opinion, the bones weren't burned there but were actually moved there. They were probably burned in the pit further away and moved with the barrell that also had bones in it. I am 50/50 on whether or not the bones were moved by the killer or the cops. I think it would have been difficult for the cops to do it out in the open like that, but they had the farm locked down a long time and could have done it in the darkness of night. I am not a conspiracy theorist at all...I hate conspiracies but in this case, I think it's fairly obvious the other evidence was planted so I wouldn't be shocked if the bones were as well. The other thing I was thinking about when reflecting on this is how the D.A. was so adamant nobody would be smart enough to frame Avery like this, but then believes that that 16 year old kid was smart enough to clean up a bloody murder leaving absolutely no trace of cleaning up and no trace of DNA or any evidence that he was there. No competent person would believe this. So if we all think Avery did not do this...or at least there is a really good chance he didn't....who did?
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Dec 23, 2015 16:53
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precision posted:I've seen a lot of people wondering how this could possibly have 10 hours worth of material after watching the first episode, and I don't want to spoil anything at all but just say "keep watching" because you have no loving idea how weird this gets What is unbelievable to me is how a judge and jury seeing that doesn't realize it's obviously a false and coerced confession. It just blows my mind.
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Dec 23, 2015 19:31
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CortezFantastic posted:The problem is there was so much reasonable doubt that it is impossible for me to say he was guilty. Much like the Staircase, this is something where I just can't say he did it because of that. The moment you see a vial of his blood that could've only been opened and used by police is the moment I would never be able to vote guilty. Yes, the blood was bad. Seeing that hole that was clearly made by a syringe makes it obvious someone took some blood from there. But the one that really got me was the license plate and how Colburn called it in like 5 days before it was "officially" found. You just know he was staring right at the vehicle when he made that call and then planted it in the junk yard.
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Dec 24, 2015 02:50
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Basebf555 posted:I know this sounds a little over the top, but has anyone brought up the idea that the cops could have actually murdered this woman for the specific purpose of framing Avery for it? Several of these people had been living with the sword of Damocles over their head ever since Avery was exonerated for the first attack, and then right as these depositions are getting started she disappears? She was known to have visited Avery several times before for the magazine she worked for, so I do think its possible(however remotely) that she was targeted for that reason. There could have been someone(Colburn perhaps?) staked out at Avery's place, and when they saw her leave they grabbed her. I doubt the cops would go that far. That seems way over the top. I honestly wonder if those two guys who gave each other alibis were involved. Sorry, I'm really bad with names so I don't remember them. But I found that odd and that's where I thought the documentary was going but they kind of dropped it after that. I believe that since she was last seen on the Avery property and the body was burned relatively close to there, there's a good chance she was intercepted on her way off the property. Someone who was familiar with the Avery family and Steve Avery's past had to be involved.
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Dec 24, 2015 03:10
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Basebf555 posted:I know its movie type poo poo but so are a whole bunch of things the police almost certainly did in this case. I think coordinating the murder of an innocent young woman by 5 or 6 law enforcement officers would be a massive conspiracy and extremely unlikely.
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Dec 24, 2015 03:34
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Basebf555 posted:The implication the documentary was making there is that the brother and ex-boyfriend, who were leading the search party, must have had some meeting with the dirty cops where the whole thing was explained to them and they went along with it. The cops probably convinced them that Avery was totally 100% guilty for sure, and that moving the car was necessary to make sure he paid for the crime. Or maybe the ex-boyfriend did it who the gently caress knows. I don't think it has to be that sinister with that many people. Here's how I think it went: - Colburn finds the vehicle - Radios in to confirm it's the vehicle (why would he do this if he didn't have the vehicle?) - Keys probably still in vehicle - Moves car to junk yard and disguises it (by disguising it the way they did, they actually make it stick out) - They had a few days to plant the blood evidence - Get the search party to search junk yard knowing full well it will be discovered eventually I think the fact it was discovered so soon is likely because it was on an outside ridge and because it was disguised.
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Dec 24, 2015 19:38
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Popular Human posted:My wife and I have watched the first three episodes so far, and we caught this - but there's an even sketchier one. The very first interview they show with Halbech's brother, he drops a line about how his "grieving process" will last for weeks or years. At this point, Teresa has been missing for three days, and they haven't even found her car yet. My wife pointed out how sketchy it was for him to already be talking like he knew she was dead, then that second interview just compounded it. I don't know what the motive would be for killing your sister. The brother was at the trials and sentencing every day. Seems like a lot to go through... I still think it has to be someone who lived on or close to the Avery property and knew enough to intercept her leaving the property and then burn her body close to the property. Again, I am going to bring up Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych who just happen to give each other an alibi during the time Steven says she would have leaving. I know there's no motive there either for them, but their testimony changed considerably from the time they were first interviewed to the time of the trial.
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Dec 27, 2015 23:08
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XboxPants posted:The first time they showed Teresa was that super weird, kinda creepy taped video will of hers that she had recorded several years before her murder where she basically lays out that it'd be no big surprise to her if she were to die sometime soon, and it's something she's just accepted as something she can't change about her life. That's... that's super, super, super not normal. What the gently caress. And then she does die in a couple years under shady circumstances. Interesting. I hadn't considered that. However, I think the body was obviously burned at either the quarry or Avery's fire pit. Can we agree on that? If it was someone close to her, we are to assume that whoever did it, knew about Avery, knew about his history, knew he would be the perfect target, and knew that she would be going to take pictures for him? That seems like a serious stretch for her brother or ex-boyfriend.
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Dec 28, 2015 04:55
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I have a hard time believing Avery did this. I get it, he's no saint. But he's also not some drug dealer who considers prison time the cost of doing business. He also has no history of murder or anything close to it. He spent EIGHTEEN years behind bars as an innocent man and had a pending mult-million dollar case open. I know he's not the sharpest tool in the shed but you gotta think the last thing he is going to do is risk getting put behind bars again and lose out on the case. He had to have known the finger would be pointed his way immediately if this woman disappeared.
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Dec 28, 2015 21:07
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Basebf555 posted:Anything could have happened when the two of them were alone on his part of the property. He may have touched her inappropriately and she fought back, she may have insulted him in some way that led to him committing the crime in anger(we know he has anger issues), who loving knows. It didn't have to be some cold-blooded, calculated plan to murder her from the beginning. Remember, its very possible he did it but under a different set of circumstances than what Brendan confessed to. That's a good point. I suppose it could have been something unplanned that escalated quickly.
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Dec 28, 2015 21:19
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Basebf555 posted:I apologize if it came across that way, but I mean in the empirical sense those are two facts that aren't disputed. Theresa did in fact meet with Avery that day, she did in fact disappear shortly after meeting with him, and her remains were in fact found on his property. Those very basic facts usually go a long way towards telling you who committed the crime, under normal circumstances. That's all I'm saying. Agreed. This is why I continue to believe it had to be someone who lived on or close to Avery's property and was able to intercept Teresa on her way off the property.
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Dec 29, 2015 00:55
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Steve2911 posted:Are they not just given all the transcripts? If not then what was the point in the whole trial thingy? My understanding is that it takes the court reporter months to prepare a transcript of the trial. There's no way they would be ready in time for jury deliberations.
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Dec 29, 2015 22:53
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Leon Einstein posted:You are basing this off of what? Their reputation? We have no idea who could have done it since the police literally investigated NOBODY other than Avery family members. I think you can base it off the fact that that was the last place she was seen and her body was found on the property and it was clearly burned at either the Quarry or Steve's fire pit. I think that indicates it is very likely that someone on the property or close to the property killed her. At least, that's my opinion.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:57
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TL posted:I will say, despite how unbelievably sad the outcome of his trial was, Brendan did far better on the stand than I thought he would. You must have had ridiculously low expectations because he was terrible on the stand.
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Dec 31, 2015 02:58
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Diabolik900 posted:Did you see any of the other footage of Brendan in this series? Yeah, I get it. I just wanted him to stand up and say in a strong and confident voice that he didn't do it and it was the police who originally suggested how it all went down. My hopes were clearly too high.
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Dec 31, 2015 06:29
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jarjarbinksfan621 posted:People use the term 'trolling' too much without really understanding the term. I"m sharing my genuine opinions. Calling a spade a spade. Saying "put down the bong" to the 95% of people in this thread who think there is a real chance evidence was planted in this case is most certainly trolling.
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Dec 31, 2015 22:36
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jarjarbinksfan621 posted:No, it's not. Trolling is saying something controversial solely to elicit a response or make people angry. I"m saying that because I genuinely think you're an idiot stoner if you actually lean towards evidence being planted with no evidence of that other than the wild doubt casted by the slick defense lawyers. You call 95% of the thread idiots and then try to claim it's not trolling. You don't think that's saying something controversial solely to elicit a response? How can you watch Colburn get questioned about the license plate call and NOT come to the conclusion that there is a reasonable chance evidence was planted in this case? I genuinely think you're an idiot stoner if you actually lean towards evidence not being planted.
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Jan 1, 2016 00:17
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Affi posted:My opinion on the evidence is this; I don't believe that finding it on the seventh search is plausible. He didn't live in a 4,000 square foot house. He lived in a trailer. They would have torn that thing apart on the first and second search. There is ZERO chance that key would have been consistently missed in multiple searches. Just no way.
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Jan 3, 2016 05:58
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IMB posted:why would anyone be surprised that a bullet on their property came from one of steven's guns? it's not like the bullet was pulled from her body. And how exactly did Steven clean up the garage enough that there was zero evidence of Teresa's blood but still left a dozen shell casings and at least one bullet with her DNA on it? The State's story is nonsensical.
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Jan 3, 2016 18:47
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Pinky Artichoke posted:Yeah, well, I sat on a trial as a juror where I was supposed to disregard everything I know about organic chemistry and pretend an "expert witness" who sounded like he had no idea that alcohol might contain carbon and/or hydrogen was the ultimate authority on how blood alcohol tests work. One of the things that's misleading about this documentary and frankly every depiction of jury trials ever is that we just can't know how the jury was instructed and what they were allowed to know. How much does this even matter? Jurors are human and I'm not sure how much the instructions from the judge really matters when forming an opinion on whether or not a person is guilty.
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Jan 5, 2016 18:23
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coolskillrex remix posted:Kratz is not an impartial source he is the FARTHEST thing from an impartial source.. hes the one who prosecuted steven avery. He will twist the truth because he was literally the reason the man went to jail. Did steven use *67 to hide his number? or *67 because he didnt have her number saved for whatever reason? Who knows? Its not a glaring omission unless someone frames it in a glaring way. Always requesting a certain person is also meaningless unless someone frames it a certain way. Maybe she was just great at her job. Everytime I need a HVAC service guy I request the same person because I know him and he's good. Doesn't mean I'm going to kill him.
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Jan 6, 2016 01:06
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mattfl posted:They did show a picture of the bullet the found and not only was it not found after the initial sweep, there were 5 or 6 other sweeps that didn't find it. It was only found months later after the local cop, who remember, wasn't even supposed to be there, amazingly found it! I guess his eyes are that much better than the team of people that were in and out of the garage multiple times! Yeah it's amazing how great those Manitowac deputies are and how much evidence they uncovered after other law enforcement had already searched.
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Jan 6, 2016 16:39
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kaworu posted:So uh, good for him. Maybe he really is qualified and I am being far too judgmental. I don't have any reason to think he killed his sister, but I will say this: I believe that she was killed by someone who knew her, rather than a stranger or light acquaintance. What's so infuriating is that the police appeared to do NO investigating in this direction, as far as I can tell, when there certainly was reason to. I still can't get behind this. She was last seen on the Avery property. She was burned on the Avery property. Her bones were on the Avery property. Someone who lives on or is very familiar with the Avery property intercepted her while she was leaving, probably raped her, killed her, and burned her all on the Avery property or at least in close proximity. I'd bet my life someone with the last name of Avery, Dassey or Tadych is the perpetrator.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:22
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Steve2911 posted:Why rape? Was there any evidence of rape or would you just rather she was raped? Would I just rather she was raped? I don't even get why you would ask this. Obviously, I don't have any evidence of that. But when searching for a motive as to why she was killed by some of the individuals who lived on the property, rape seems like a good one. I didn't mean to offend.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:43
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Zasze posted:I could have misunderstood it but near as I can tell they proved that she wasnt burned at the avery property which is The State's expert says she was burned in Avery's pit. Avery's lawyer says she was burned elsewhere - likely the quarry. I guess the quarry isn't technically Avery property but it's like a quarter of the mile away I believe. I think we can safely assume her body was burned in close proximity, if not on their property.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:45
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as all gently caress why would you burn her at the quarry then bring her back, i mean it explains why she was bleeding a gently caress ton in her own car maybe?
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If I were a betting man, I would bet that the true story from Brendan is what he originally wrote down in that "interview" with Michael O'Kelly. That scene was heart-breaking to watch...I feel like he was trying to finally tell the honest truth and get his story across to someone who was supposed to be on his side. And it was shot down.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:32
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kaworu posted:Even the judge, who seemed to be against Dassey ever step of the way, excused Kachinsky as his attorney after those actions. That's a *big deal*. You cannot just take the fruits of what got him excused and throw it back at Dassey as evidence. That's what BuddyLee is doing, and it's disingenuous on a number of levels and revolting as *gently caress* to me. Yeah, I still can't believe this. How can those drawings be used against him when it was his lawyer and private investigator that got him to draw them? I just don't understand how that is fair or just.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:11
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Basebf555 posted:I believe all physical evidence was collected by the time they ever had an interaction with Brendan. So they already had in their minds the way they thought it happened, and they tried to mold Brendan's confession to fit the narrative they were trying to establish. He didn't guess it though. "I'm going to come right out and say it, who shot her in the head?"
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Jan 8, 2016 19:41
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BioMe posted:Honestly the fact there was only Steven's DNA on the key isn't that weird on its own. It's easy to see how you might clean a key and then accidentally contaminate it with your own DNA again. The circumstance it was found was suspicious though. Haha, yeah I'll leave my DNA all over the car but make sure the key is clean.
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Jan 8, 2016 20:21
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MrBuddyLee posted:The sad thing is, the cops asked Barb if she wanted to be with her son for each interview, and if she wanted him to have a lawyer present, and she declined each time and sat outside. I'm pretty sure she disputes this. If you're basing that "fact" only on what the police said and testified to, it really means nothing in this case. At least to me.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:13
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