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TrixR4kids posted:So obviously with the documentary you can only see the evidence that they decide to show. Does anyone know if there's anything they blatantly left out? Was it ever proven that Brendan "confessed" to Kayla? Someone (cops/family) may have put it in her head that Brendan was responsible, which she paired with all the explicit news coverage. As bad as I feel for the Halbach family, I feel equally bad for Allan and Dolores Avery. Dolores, although seemingly optimistic while on the phone with Steve, looked absolutely broken throughout the final episodes. I expected a back-and-forth Serial vibe from Making a Murderer, where each episode I'd waiver on guilty/not-guilty; that didn't happen. There was never anything that made me believe, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Steven Avery was guilty. For that, I wish there was one Devil's Advocate episode where the show outlined all the evidence against Steven Avery (similar to Serial), because everything shown from the prosecution/police wasn't presented well.
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Dec 25, 2015 13:01
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TrixR4kids posted:After reading about it more it sounds like she told a school counselor who told the cops. I suppose you're right, it could've been rumors and then she tells the counselor etc. This was after the news coverage as well, it's just hard to understand why she would say this other than being a dumb kid. What all did Kayla's story corroborate, anyway? That Brendan helped Steve move a body? Or did she also know the more intricate details of the throat slashing/rape/burning/etc? From what I remember, the police had an idea of what happened, and needed someone to testify against Steve. They first tried Jodi, but she refused to talk, so they moved onto Brendan.
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Dec 26, 2015 02:58
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TrixR4kids posted:That he saw body parts in the fire and that he saw Teresa chained up to the bed. Both of which were in the news at the time she would've mentioned this to a counselor. Obviously her testimony even if she didn't recant wouldn't prove the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, I just wonder if she actually heard that from him or not and if not, why did she say stuff to the counselor. How did the news know the information about Teresa being chained up to the bed? I thought the prosecution only released that information once they got the "confession" from Brendan? Why would the police even believe that she was chained up to the bed? There were no rope fibers found in the bedroom and Brendan indicated that they used a chain for her feet. That certainly would have caused damage to the bed frame - damage they didn't find? Also, no blood in the bedroom (or soaked into the mattress). I thought the investigators were later pushing for Brendan to confess that Steve murdered Teresa in the garage. Whole thing is weird/poorly investigated.
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Dec 26, 2015 03:47
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Was this mentioned in the show? http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articles/makingamurderer.html quote:Why did the state crime lab analyst who accidentally contaminated a key DNA sample ask for a waiver to get around protocols that said contaminated samples should be ruled inconclusive and retested? (There was not enough of the sample left for retesting). This same analyst provided key hair sample evidence against Avery in his earlier sexual assault case, the sexual assault it turned out that he didn't do. http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...ede9a459ee7.htm quote:Culhane said DNA tests of a hair taken from the 1985 assault victim — one of the same hairs that Culhane had testified nearly two decades earlier was "consistent" with Avery’s — was in fact from another man, Gregory Allen, a dangerous sexual offender who had been on the radar of local police for years. They used the same forensic analyst from the 1985 case? 
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Dec 26, 2015 04:35
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From your own link: quote:But Farnsworth is quick to point out that a single act of childhood violence against animals, while disturbing to many, may not mean that more violence is inevitable. Killing the family cat by lighting it on fire? Yes, awful, despicable, etc. But just because he killed an animal (and admitted to it!) 20 years ago doesn't mean he's going to murder some photographer that he has no real relationship with. He also ran a woman off the road and held her at gunpoint. But both crimes (cat, road rage) happened before he was falsely imprisoned for the Beerntsen crime. As far as I know, he didn't get into any trouble once he was released from prison until the Halbach disappearance. Grem posted:The fact there was no EDTA in the blood in the car was really the final straw for me. There was another expert who said that one could not, with any definite certainty, conclude that there was no EDTA in the blood. Just because the test didn't find any EDTA, doesn't mean there wasn't any EDTA in the blood. Could be the test didn't work/wasn't sufficient. Remember this was a test that was supposed to take 4-6 months that the FBI pushed out in less than a week.
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Dec 28, 2015 05:10
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Kampfbereit posted:1. Lenk pulls Teresa over, kills her, puts body in trunk, burns her at the quarry, plants everything at the yard. Colburn is unaware of this. As much as I think Avery is not guilty, I just can't wrap my head around the police murdering a young girl for the sake of framing Avery. Fully believe the cops planted the key, blood, and bullet to strengthen their case against Avery. They may have even moved the bones from the quarry to outside his house. No idea how/where she was murdered and the motive for doing so. She obviously was transported in her trunk. No idea how the car got to Avery's or why her body was burned on his property. They said Steven Avery's IQ was 70. That's almost two full standard deviations away from average. He is smarter than only 2.2% of the population. Is that really a man who could kidnap/rape/murder a girl while leaving no evidence in his house and garage? The only way for this to happen is if this were premeditated and he Dexter'd his kill site or if he meticulously cleaned immediately afterwards (contrast this clean job with the living state of his house). If he had all that foresight to not leave any evidence at his house, why would he be so lazy with disposing of the evidence? Why wouldn't you scrap/crush her SUV? Why wouldn't you incinerate her instead of using trash barrels? How could he be so well trained on the front-end, but completely gently caress up the back?
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Dec 28, 2015 08:56
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computer parts posted:Yeah, and if they had some of what they did just wouldn't make sense (like calling in the vehicle before it was discovered). Tadych and Bobby have literally nothing to gain by killing Teresa, unless it was a random act. They actually have a lot to lose because if Avery's getting even a fraction of that $36m settlement, that money goes a long way in rural Wisconsin. If the murderer knew of the police's hostility towards Avery AND Teresa's schedule, that narrows the suspect list considerably (eliminates the drifter theory). Let's say it was one (or more) of the brother/ex-boyfriend/roommate combo. They know from Teresa that she was going to Avery's property. They follow her, wait for her to leave Avery's, murder her in a random field. Transport the body to the quarry, burn it, wait for the barrels to cool off, bury bones outside of Avery's property, ditch the SUV on the edge of the salvage yard, hide the license plate in another salvaged vehicle. Then the killer(s) have to bet that the police will be so tunnel-visioned on Avery, that the police not only ignore any evidence that Avery isn't the killer, but also plant evidence on the killer's behalf to strengthen the case against Avery. That sounds just as crazy as the police murdering her. e: I guess the police could have moved the bones, too. MrCodeDude fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 09:36
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Grem posted:People keep bringing up the $36m civil rights case, but the documentary said that the Avery Bill that was passed right when Teresa went missing gave Avery $400k. I'm almost positive that was going to be the extent of his restitution, I don't see the state adding another lump of money on to what he was probably going to win anyways. I can't find if his case ever closed or what, but the way he was buddy buddy with lawmakers in the state I can see them offering the $400k and him dropping the civil rights lawsuit in exchange. The $400k state restitution (which I don't believe was ever paid out) is for those wrongly convicted of crimes who were later exonerated. This assumes capable police investigation and state prosecution. Avery was able to file a very legitimate and damaging civil suit against Manitowoc County, the Sheriff, and the District Attorney, because of their gross negligence and continued willful misconduct in investigating/prosecuting the case. He had to settle this civil case (which originally asked for $36m, $18m of which was for punitive damages) for $400k because he needed money to fund his criminal defense case. In the settlement, Manitowoc admitted no wrongdoing. If the Teresa Halbach thing never happened, it's very likely Avery gets at least a mid 7-figure payout from the civil suit (on top of the $400k from the state restitution).
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Dec 29, 2015 00:41
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IRQ posted:I got to the part where he murders a cat with fire 10 minutes in and the show is like "boys will be boys!" about it then turned it off. Way to focus on an incredibly small detail in the much greater story. Turn it back on, get through 3 episodes, and see if your opinion changes. IMB posted:I want to see the autopsy report for the woman Steven allegedly killed. I got this weird sense of suicide from her. I don't know who would have burned her body at the Avery's - unless it was a county employee or crooked deputy. I still think she killed herself. Didn't the police/prosecution say she was shot 11 times? Since she was burned, they could only infer based off the bullet wounds off the remaining bone fragments. Were there really 11 in-tact bone fragments which showed bullet wounds?
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Dec 29, 2015 05:14
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IMB posted:Taxpayers would have paid whatever money was awarded, it wouldn't have come from the sheriff's personal pocketbook. It would have come from slush funds/jail funds, etc. It would have been figured out after the final amount was decided on. Both the Sheriff and DA were allowed to be named in the civil suit, which means they would also share some of the financial burden. Pinky Artichoke posted:OK, different issue, I'm almost finished (had to stop in the middle of episode 10) and I had to laugh a little when Steven says he never expected to go to jail again. Come on, man, you're a felon in possession of a firearm. You're still a reckless driver. You're putting yourself into compromising situations with an underage girl. Being exonerated in the past doesn't give you a Get Out Of Jail Free card for all of the petty bullshit that would've had you in and out of jail all along if Penny Beerntsen had never been attacked. Did I miss this? What underage girl? EL BROMANCE posted:One of the bits that got me was when you heard the phone call revealing that neither kid nor mother knows what 'inconsistent' means. I think it just rubbed it in that they just didn't have a chance. This was a terribly depressing scene, but I took from it that while Brendan didn't know what the word meant, his mom wasn't sure what it meant as it pertained to his case. That is, she knew the definition, but wasn't sure how him giving inconsistent statements would affect his and/or Steve's criminal cases.
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Dec 29, 2015 10:41
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Pinky Artichoke posted:It's something Brown County was investigating when the Halbach murder charges came up: Uhhhhhhhhh quote:Zakowski said the allegation involved sexual intercourse with a girl over the age of 16. He said the girl was a relative of Avery's and the alleged attack took place in Manitowoc County. That's a pretty big accusation that was glossed over. This is a much bigger red flag than the animal abuse thing because it happened after he was released. No wonder the town/city/state hated them. WastedJoker posted:Also, was the underage girl Steven was supposedly fiddling the same girl who lied about Brendan before admitting the tearful truth in court? The girl he allegedly sexually abused was at least 16 in 2004, so not the young cousin who recanted her confession about Brendan. MrCodeDude fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 12:53
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