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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Yay I had a lot of fun in gnomefia 1, I will play

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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

imgay posted:

my distrustful ex-wife

It was all just a ruse so that i could end up with Gallagher, my one true love

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Puntification posted:

gnome of the year right here.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Asiina posted:

Start game

:bandwagon:

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Kashuno posted:

PLEASE don't doxx me

Trying to doxx kash would be as big a dead end as the road he lives on

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Confirming!

BottleKnight posted:

I'm willing to take input for the deadline. Would you rather it be shorter and end on a weekend or extend into Monday?

Or super ultra turbo mode and do end of day Friday?

I like the idea of turbo deadline for d1 (Friday pm) because a four RL day D1 seems excessive. That said, I'm going to be phonebound Friday and Saturday.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

EXAKT Science posted:

His account was registered two days ago. Is he a parachute?

##vote EXAKT - 99% gut/meta read on my part

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

To clarify - read over EXAKT's posts in drug mafia. For context, scum Merk opens the game by scumclaiming, and town EXAKT votes for him on D1 and has this, among other posts, to say:

EXAKT Science in another game posted:

Scumclaiming is anti-town and should be punished.

---

I will end the day voting merk because scumclaims are a good reason to vote for someone.

---

I will never not vote someone for scumclaiming

Remember, EXAKT was town and Merk was scum. EXAKT was correct in that game to policyvote for a scum claim. So when Bigup DJ opened the game by posting "I am scum", I would have expected something similar to that. Instead we see:

EXAKT Science this game posted:

I don't wanna kill dj day 1 of his first game.

--

His account was registered two days ago. Is he a parachute?

--

Hahaha I'm a moron who doesn't understand phoneposting

--

##vote Somber you've taken advantage of my trust too many times!

EXAKT justifies not voting the scumclaim with a reason that turns out to be incorrect, and then upon realizing the logic was mistaken, votes for Somber instead of BigUp. I don't think a town EXAKT would have done that, hence my vote.

I acknowledge that it's a flimsy day 1 case based on a meta read.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

EXAKT Science posted:

If this isn't his first game, then yeah I will policy vote DJ today. However I want to enjoy a little jokephase first

We do have four days and I haven't seen any puns, so there's gno major rush to end the day just yet :)

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
I'm phonebound until Sunday but at this moment in time I don't see a vote I like more than EXAKT.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

EXAKT Science posted:

What about the dude who scumclaimed?
##vote DJ

With all due respect to bigup, he just kind of seems like a shitposter to me so I don't read the claim as a definite tell. With you I feel like your initial reaction to bigup was specifically forced / out of the norm, which I find more suspicious.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
I'm at set break of a concert so probably won't be posting much d1 after this but specifically I think bigup is being used as an easy target for scum to move the vote onto. My biggest scum reads are EXAKT and chic at the moment and I'm gonna keep my vote here and encourage people to switch there.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

EXAKT Science posted:

Still think it's big up for similar reasons to yesterday and also due to the lack of hammer. Also the scums probably like mafia because they killed a lurker, so that's something to think about

##vote EXAKT

My opinion hasn't really changed. Also, the vague word choice above ("similar reasons to yesterday" as opposed to "for scumclaiming") makes me think EXAKT is constructing a lie instead of sharing an honest opinion.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Puntification posted:

Why does vagueness make it more likely to be deceit in this scenario? Are you implying he's hoping that the ambiguity will lead people to think his reasons are better than they are or something?

In this case, I think that the vagueness is a tell. Even if we ignore EXAKT's meta When I try and look at the game from the point of view of a town EXAKT, my response to a vote on BigUp petering out would be to case the people who didn't vote there.

EXAKT Science posted:

Yeah, because you screwed yours up. I'm also casting a sideways glance at the way Somber is calling me a good vote but it's also hedging his bets on me.

Somberbrero posted:

Yeah, I don't think bigup is a smart move. I'm playing board games and being rude right now but I will check back in.

Like for example, if EXAKT had an eye on Somber on D1 and then Somber was one of the deciding votes leading to not hammering BigUp. I find it suspicious that EXAKT doesn't have anything to say about that and is instead focused on BigUp "for reasons similar to yesterday".

EXAKT Science posted:

Murmur is also probably scum, imo

What makes you say this?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

EXAKT Science posted:

Like, one of your very first posts was casing me super seriously, which, tonally, did not fit with the rest of the discussion that was happening at the time

I saw something that I viewed as suspicious and made a case based on it. Are you saying I shouldn't have done so because we were in jokephase?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

EXAKT Science posted:

She's pushing a bad case, and I've seen her jump on an early case super seriously as scum before

EXAKT Science posted:

Like, one of your very first posts was casing me super seriously, which, tonally, did not fit with the rest of the discussion that was happening at the time

Out of curiosity, do you think it's scummy that I didn't vote BigUp to break up the no lynch

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Murmur Twin posted:

Out of curiosity, do you think it's scummy that I didn't vote BigUp to break up the no lynch?

mafia edit, don't know where my question mark went

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

EXAKT Science posted:

Yeah, a bit. It means that we're now in day 1 2.0 and are going to have the same dead-end conversations add yesterday since we only have the flip if someone with like two game-related posts, and it's the flip from a night kill rather than a dunk

I agree with this statement, in that my failure to prevent a no-lynch is more incriminating than my having a serious tone on D1 when I made a case.

Why not mention it when you originally cased me?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Does anyone not from New England have anything to say about anything?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

imgay posted:

drat mmt don't want me to speak anymorr

I never knew you were from NE and my role PM doesn't say I dislike you this time around, so please feel free to speak ;-*

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Epsilon Plus posted:

Just to clarify, you think bigup was scum because of the lack of a hammer, so scum are likely to be among those who didn't vote for him?

Epsilon Plus posted:

Also EXAKT never bothered to reply to this.

Why exactly do you need the answer to that? Are you saying you don't believe EXAKT's claim?

Epsilon Plus posted:

You can see why I've been a bit of a non-participant. Getting useful data from this mess is hard. Wish Somber had stuck around, his insights are great.

In my experience, apologizing for lack of participation is usually something scum does because they're concerned with how they're perceived by town.

Epsilon Plus posted:

Everyone wants to lunch you. Those who don't want to lunch you are too divided and/or distracted by the other idiots to make a strong case on anyone else.

Yeah, it's stupid.

I feel like this is a strange post coming from someone who has neither voted for BigUp nor cased anyone else.

Looking over E+'s posts I don't see any sort of consistent point of view, it seems to me like he's just skimming and trying to post reactions to give the impression of content. ##vote Epsilon Plus

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Puntification posted:

That multiple vote flip onto bigup after Exakt claimed is utter bs. I don't buy bigup as scum and would happily vote any of those clowns.

Is there a specific reason you don't buy BigUp as scum? Like to me his alignment is a coin flip and I'm curious if there's something I'm missing.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

totino boy posted:

kashono is right and killing dj for being a chaotic element is a fine reason. chaos is inherently scummy especially when coupled with no thoughts or reasoning or reads or opinions or anything. when we take the wildcards out of the deck the game is better for everyone

Let's assume for a second that BigUp was out of the question - who would you be most likely to vote for and why?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Murmur Twin posted:

Let's assume for a second that BigUp was out of the question - who would you be most likely to vote for and why?

Same question goes out to Chic and EXAKT and anyone else who wants to answer it.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Puntification posted:

This post by murmur pinged me, it seems weird and wrong logic-ed, like, who assured in their own towniness thinks their own behaviour is incriminating? And attacking exakt cos the argument she came up with that may not even have occurred to him until pointed out by her is better than his seems really odd.

My thought process was that EXAKT's case on my tone was, in my opinion, faked. I didn't buy that someone could have read over my posts and come to the conclusion that my tone when casing EXAKT was the scummiest thing about me (instead of my failure to vote to break up a no-lynch). I figured I would question them there to gauge a reaction.

I mean - even now, their claim is the only thing that makes me feel like my read was incorrect.

totino boy posted:

i would vote for tommunist or punt because they are being very snipey and distancing from interactions

Can you clarify a post or two of punt's that makes you say that? And what's your read on E+?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Epsilon Plus posted:

Full disclosure: my past few IRL days have been kinda lovely. Combined with what a quagmire this game has been so far I admit to not being fully participatory.

For what it's worth, regardless of the game state I hope things improve IRL :)

Chic Trombone posted:

murmur fwiw not voting out a new person on d1 of their first game is pretty much common courtesy and i think saying "i don't want to vote the new guy out" is a null tell, if anything imo

I've had a scum read on Chic since the above post - my two biggest reads are E+ and Chic but at least E+ is engaging more with the game. ##vote Chic

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Asiina posted:

I mean it's nice to say "oh let's scumhunt instead of going for the obvious target" but if there's someone who isn't going to play the game and you're completely unable to determine his alignment because of it, then in absence of something stronger I see no problem with anyone who votes for him.

I would argue that the above logic makes a stronger case for Chic than it does for BigUp.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
:redhammer:

Somberbrero posted:

yeah but more than that i really don't like you phoning in today's lunch.

Yeah, most delivery places let you order food online now :j:

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
:crossarms:

EXAKT Science posted:

Because the scums targeted a lurker last night and know that Asiina is going to be busy comodding the Ecco game, and also that she's not going to get dunked

And why did you target Asiina?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

EXAKT Science posted:

Because the scums targeted a lurker last night and know that Asiina is going to be busy comodding the Ecco game, and also that she's not going to get dunked

More questions for EXAKT:

1 - If scum wanted to target someone lurking (no offense), why would they have targetted Asii over, say, the person who claimed doctor?

2 - Why do you seem confident that scum targetted Asii but question why scum would have targetted Kash?

3 - Why vote for JakeP (who you hadn't mentioned until D3) instead of me (who you claimed to think was scum) when he and I have more or less been on the same page?

My read on the game right now is Asiina/EXAKT for scum, and they withheld the kill to try and give plausibility to EXAKT's (lucky? mod-given fake?) doctor claim.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Do you not at least think that question #1 has merit?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Asiina posted:

Yeah, EXAKT's lurker reason for protecting me makes no sense, but it was possibly effective, so I don't really care?

I'm more questioning why scum wouldn't have targetted EXAKT for the NK.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

JakeP posted:

wow a lot of people in this thread stupid as poo poo to give any weight to what Exakt said.

He protected her and no one died, and nobody can think of any of the plethora of reasons why this could happen

I feel like this was the same point I was trying to make?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

JakeP posted:

MMT and Punt have been suspiciously quiet, is MMT still on concert tour? what was the timeline on that?

Busy day! I've been following on my phone but just got home and am re-reading.

I'm starting to grow more suspicious of imgay and derp, effort coming soon.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Let's chat!

imgay posted:

Jake, Asiina isn't scum, and this push makes you look scummier and scummier

(a) Why are you sure Asiina isn't scum?
(b) What is specifically scummy (as opposed to wrong) about Jake's opinion?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

imgay posted:

because asiina being tunneled so hard. i believe asiina is actively trying which never happens when ive seen her as scum before. and jake just feels super scummy, even more so with his tunnel. like its dumb when people criticize u for something they doing themself

(a) Regardless of your opinion on Asiina, what makes you rule out Jake being town and genuinely thinking she's scum?
(b) Is there specific content of Asiina's that makes you read town, or is it just a meta read?
(c) Talk to me about your opinion of Somber as the game has progressed.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
##vote imgay

The confidence imgay is trying to convey in his Jake/Asiina reads feels feigned to me.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Murmur Twin posted:

##vote imgay

The confidence imgay is trying to convey in his Jake/Asiina reads feels feigned to me.

Also, gotta keep gnomish tradition alive.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
I take back the derp thing, on a re-read he seems town.

imgay posted:

sorry i post from the heart, if it means anything, your pushes have been pretty scummy too

It just seems suspicious to me that

(a) you don't seem concerned about "what if the perfectly valid explanations Murmur listed are true and I'm pushing a mislynch"?
(b) you didn't really have any solid opinions until Asiina started going after Jake, and then all of a sudden you had the same opinion that she did

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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
I'm doing a reread now and I'm welcome to hear what other people have to say but right now I feel good with my vote.

EXAKT Science posted:

I also know that I'm not going to die tonight, and I'm much better with at least one flip to work with

For what it's worth I originally read this as "I know I'm going to die tonight" and that EXAKT was hamming up the doctor claim. That's what initially made me so skeptical when there wasn't a NK. I'm opening up to the idea that the doctor claim is valid and I was barking at shadows.

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