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Nate RFB posted:The difference between 3.33 and 1.11/2.22, at least in terms of TV episode plots being woven into the films, is that while the first two are a stiching together of several episodes and the third is just one (24) stretched out to one film. Albeit with a healthy amount of new content if you're being charitable, padding if you're not. Well, no, 3.33 is not just 24 stretched out. Kaworu plays a heavy part in both, yes, but the nature of the relationship between him and Shinji is very different between the two, and 3.33 has a whole load of ideas that are just plain not in 24. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 14:35
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In your opinion, how are they different? I came away from the third film thinking it feeling that that relationship at least functioned in the exact same capacity, just reskinned and adjusted to fit the circumstances. The individual events may be different on their own but the themes were the same.
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Jan 30, 2016 14:42
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God drat I love that film, and 100% unironically think that the Komm Susser Tod Instrumenality sequence is the most gorgeous looking thing ever put on film, dodgy late 90's CGI and all.
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Jan 30, 2016 14:43
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Nate RFB posted:In your opinion, how are they different? I came away from the third film thinking it feeling that that relationship at least functioned in the exact same capacity, just reskinned and adjusted to fit the circumstances. The individual events may be different on their own but the themes were the same. The themes are most definitely not the same. 3.33 deals primarily with themes of guilt and denial, and metafictional themes about the Evangelion property as a whole. Episode 24 is about Shinji seeking comfort from anyone he's able to, and the thematic parallel between the pilots and Angels more or less being finished. Just consider how different Kaworu's death is between 3.33 and 24. In 24, Shinji rather selflessly kills Kaworu for the greater good of humanity (And this is something Kaworu himself basically wanted). In 3.33, the whole movie revolves around Shinji's culpability in Third Impact, with people like Asuka blaming him for it, saying it's his fault etc. The one who finally convinces Shinji of his involvement with the apocalypse is Kaworu in one of the movie's key scenes (He does nothing like this in 24). This leads Shinji to ultimately act selfishly, by ignoring Kaworu's warnings and pulling the spears (Believing he can "turn back time" because "now the guilt is all mine ([his])" and stop Third Impact from having ever happened to begin with, as opposed to trying to take responsibility and help the world as it is now), unintentionally causing Kaworu's death as an accident more or less, and causing Fourth Impact etc. IOW Shinji's relationship with Kaworu puts him down the path of tragic mistakes he makes in 3.33, and this is just not how it plays out in 24 at all, since that episode really isn't based around the decisions Shinji is making. Really the main commonality between 24 and 3.33 is that Kaworu cares about Shinji in both of them. It's Shinji that's quite different between the show and movie.
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Jan 30, 2016 15:14
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Fair enough. To me, it was the broad strokes of due to various circumstances Shinji becomes isolated and alienated from those he previously was close to and becomes attached to Kaworu as a means to heal and/or escape from those problems. When he loses him at the end (the manner in which Kaworu dies is absolutely the biggest difference here in terms of how Shinji arrived at that moment) Shinji sinks to his greatest low of all. Asuka has to pull Shinji along to just walk forward, just like Misato had to do in EoE.
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Jan 30, 2016 16:38
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It's pretty frustrating to see him basically pushed into all of that happening though, the only reason any of them are still alive in the first place is because he returned to pilot Eva. Though I guess in this timeline they might not understand that quite as well as they did in the TV universe. Not to say it's a flaw in the movie of course, I found that all disturbingly believable.
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Jan 30, 2016 17:37
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Jan 30, 2016 19:22
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Oh my god
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Jan 30, 2016 19:29
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haha
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Jan 30, 2016 19:38
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Instrumenality begins
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Jan 30, 2016 20:42
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aaaa AAAAAAAA!!
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Jan 30, 2016 21:42
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lol
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Jan 30, 2016 22:48
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amazing
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Jan 31, 2016 00:23
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I was trying earlier to think of some other movies I both love and hate as much as EoE and could only come up with Battle Royale and some horror movies like Don't Look Now or the 70's Body Snatchers.
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Jan 31, 2016 00:27
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Thanks, i didn't really need that rem sleep anyway....
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Jan 31, 2016 00:30
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Sakurazuka posted:I was trying earlier to think of some other movies I both love and hate as much as EoE and could only come up with Battle Royale and some horror movies like Don't Look Now or the 70's Body Snatchers. Melancholia for me.
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Jan 31, 2016 01:48
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Sakurazuka posted:I was trying earlier to think of some other movies I both love and hate as much as EoE and could only come up with Battle Royale and some horror movies like Don't Look Now or the 70's Body Snatchers. In what way did you hate EoE out of curiosity? It didn't really provoke that sort of feeling in me, so I can't think of any examples. At least not for movies that I legitimately love, other than (maybe) One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, if you mean in the painful tragedy way. VVVVV Yeah, I can't think of any examples of something like that at the moment, but there are definitely some times when I watch and enjoy a movie, and the lesson that it teaches and the lesson that it wants to teach are at odds with one another, and so the denouement falls utterly flat almost ruining the thing. Kytrarewn fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 02:55
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The only time I love and hate a movie at the same time is if it has multiple thematic ideas and I find myself endorsing one and not the other. So, like, Horns or Gurren Lagann, maybe. EoE doesn't have that problem at all for me. Rebuild might, but I can't tell yet.
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Jan 31, 2016 02:58
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Hate because of all the horrible things that happen to people in it, mainly. Just the opening JSDF invasion of NERV is incredibly brutal.
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Jan 31, 2016 03:41
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how the gently caress can anyone hate body snatchers '78
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Jan 31, 2016 03:55
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Sometimes a movie can be TOO scary
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Jan 31, 2016 04:17
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It's a great film it's just... The ending and then the cut to completely silent credits, it's too much.
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Jan 31, 2016 04:25
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That's my second biggest regret about not having seen it in an actual cinema btw
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Jan 31, 2016 04:47
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For a while I was solidly in the "Eva is overrated and bad" camp, then I dove into the bottomless pit that is called "Evangelion lore and symbolism" and since emerging have liked the series more and more as time's passed on. End of Eva is loving amazing. There are a ton of reasons to regret not being there when it was first playing in theaters and seeing this giant can of worms unleashed upon society first-hand. Evangelion 3.33 might be really good but also might be really bad, I'm still not sure on that one. Augus fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 07:43
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On 3.33. Think about how the orginal series would of gone without Shinji from episode 20 onwards.
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Jan 31, 2016 13:42
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Something that really helps put things in perspective is when you consider that the titles of the Rebuild movies actually mean something about the films themselves. 1.0 is about loneliness (the presence or absence), 2.0 is about trying to move forward (succeeding or failing), and 3.0 is about trying to redo and fix past mistakes (which you can or cannot do). They're stages of Shinji's growth as a character. Shinji is alone at first, but realizes in the end that he isn't. Shinji learns how to move forward, and in the end is able to take his own initiative and act independently, moving him closer to adulthood. But being an adult also means accepting that your actions have consequences, and for a lot of people this is really really hard. Shinji did what he wanted to and what he felt was right, but the sad fact is that doesn't always work out for the better. What he felt in his heart was right had unforseen consequences, and it made people resent him for it. And this sucks. Like, a lot. I've seen people say that 3.0 is the only time in the series they felt that Shinji was actually being wronged, that his angst was justified and it seemed like everyone else was being irrational and ganging up on him. Honestly, it makes perfect sense to feel that way because Shinji had no way of knowing that what he was doing at the end of 2.0 would backfire. This drives him to try and undo his mistakes (and Kaworu makes the mistake of pushing him towards this) when the truth was that he couldn't undo the consequences of his action, he could only accept what happened and do his best in the world he's now stuck with. So thematically, 3.0 makes perfect sense as a progression from 2.0. If 2.0 was about the thrill of stepping into the world as an adult and taking things into your own hands, 3.0 is about how being an adult is actually really complicated and you're inevitably going to make mistakes when you're doing what you think is right. This mirrors End of Evangelion, where the triumphant scene of Shinji rejecting Instrumentality is followed up with a harsh reminder that him and Asuka are still psychologically damaged people in a devastated world, that they're not just going to get better immediately and their lives are still going to be complicated and painful. What otherwise would've been a happy ending has a bitter note thrown in right at the end. I need to rewatch Rebuild 3.0 to see again just to see how well the execution holds up, but I've moved past the idea that it was merely just "making GBS threads on the last movie and the fans" like a lot of people took it and realized that the movie does have something more to say. Of course, what happens in the final movie could still fly in the face of everything I just said and make me look like a huge idiot, but whatever.
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Jan 31, 2016 22:51
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It okay since we're never going to find out 
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Jan 31, 2016 22:56
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2050 is gonna be a good year for anime nerds. e: Linnaeus posted:So what do you think 3.0+1.0 will mean? You are (Not) Alone + You Can (Not) Redo = ??? With others (not) helping you, you can (not) rebuild?  gently caress if I know. Anno can be called a lot of things, predictable isn't really one of them. Augus fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 22:57
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Augus posted:
So what do you think 3.0+1.0 will mean?
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Jan 31, 2016 22:59
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Sometimes it's better to quit and take up a more fulfilling hobby, like growing watermelons. Edit: 3.0+1.0 is a Non Non Biyori crossover movie. Renge is the true final angel. l33tc4k30fd00m fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 00:13
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Augus posted:
Wait, wait i remember this... first you use the commutative property then i think you use the FOIL method
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Feb 1, 2016 00:16
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Ok so 5 episodes in and she hates Shinji already but loves Rei. She is shipping them a bit but suspects she is his sister . She like Toji and co and still as of yet is fooled by the shonen saterday morning esk nature of the initial episodes. Sometimes I think this is a bad idea, but then I remember 25-26 and EoE. This will be glorious. Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 19:44
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She's got no idea  
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Feb 2, 2016 19:57
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Tarranon posted:She's got no idea Ah she loves plot subtext and characterisation in shows plus she is quite sharp so I think she will notice things are amiss before long. She knows the Eva is not as straight forward as it looks. Overall its curious to have anothers impression of the show. Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 20:30
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I knew Komm, susser Tod was based on something written by Hideaki Anno and adapted into english, but I didn't know the Japanese text had been released and directly translated. Pretty striking: http://wiki.evageeks.org/Komm,_s%C3%BCsser_Tod - one translation http://www.evaotaku.com/omake/Komm.html - another The original seems to be a much less ornamented take on the show's themes
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Feb 2, 2016 21:43
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Zas posted:I knew Komm, susser Tod was based on something written by Hideaki Anno and adapted into english, but I didn't know the Japanese text had been released and directly translated. Pretty striking: The music is pretty obviously a reference to the Beatles' Hey Jude, another song about a kid put through hell by his ambitious father.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:36
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So, I have been catching these Funimation pre-views for what I assume are Evangelion movies 3.33 and the like, and they honestly look really good, but I am not sure where I should start. My only previous experience with this series is the original show, which I enjoyed at first, but of course was not pleased with the ending, which I have gathered over time is common. Basically, Evangelion layman, looking for advice on what to watch or avoid.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:13
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parts of it use the pachelbel's canon (which was in Death/Rebirth) progression, but that's probably a coincidence since that progression shows up everywhere in everything. it even has a tvtropes page lol it also might take it's name from a famous Bach piece: Komm, süßer Tod, komm selge Ruh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXlF9MCMeRI (this is a well known version by stokowski who does it up like a samuel barber piece) it has very different lyrical content, being a lutheran hymn and all, but at the same time: Come, sweet death, come blessed rest! O world, you torture chamber, oh! stay with your lamentations in this world of sorrow, it is heaven that I desire, death shall bring me there. Come, blessed rest!
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Feb 3, 2016 05:16
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Uroboros posted:So, I have been catching these Funimation pre-views for what I assume are Evangelion movies 3.33 and the like, and they honestly look really good, but I am not sure where I should start. My only previous experience with this series is the original show, which I enjoyed at first, but of course was not pleased with the ending, which I have gathered over time is common. Basically, Evangelion layman, looking for advice on what to watch or avoid. Watch the TV series (you want the Director's Cut if possible), then End of Evangelion. The Rebuild movies are a retelling of the series that starts out similar and then ramps up the changes, and a huge part of what makes them tick is how they contrast with the TV series. They're definitely worth watching, and in theory you could start out with them and just watch them as their own story, but I wouldn't. (They're also incomplete, the fourth and final one is still a year or two out.)
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Feb 3, 2016 05:21
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Uroboros posted:So, I have been catching these Funimation pre-views for what I assume are Evangelion movies 3.33 and the like, and they honestly look really good, but I am not sure where I should start. My only previous experience with this series is the original show, which I enjoyed at first, but of course was not pleased with the ending, which I have gathered over time is common. Basically, Evangelion layman, looking for advice on what to watch or avoid. rewatch the show, or watch death & rebirth, and then watch the end of evangelion. the jury's still out on the rebuilds until the project is completed. anno got depressed after making 3, and made the new godzilla movie coming out this year instead of starting production on 4 so it probably won't be until the end of 2016/2017 at least. if you're uncomfortable with watching something incomplete then consider skipping until then. they're divisive but they're really interesting. i think the first two are pretty whatever but 3 is incredible and the best thing eva related since end of eva. i suppose you could skip to the rebuilds if you wanted, because while they definitely require a familiarity with the series, nothing they've done has been explicitly related to end of eva (yet) (well, i guess there is a pretty major detail but it's still intentionally vague.) but really, you owe it to yourself to watch end of eva, because it is one of the best movies ever.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:42
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