|
How is the pacing of the last two books? I just finished White-Luck Warrior and it felt really slow compared to all of the previous books.
|
#
¿
Oct 23, 2017 15:09
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 14:01 |
|
|
Amuys posted:Anyone know anything about the sequel series other than it's about the No-God obviously? I just finished TUC a few days ago and spent some time reading the various fan forums, here's what I picked up (some of which has already been posted): - It will be called The No-God - Bakker is envisioning 2-3 books - Bakker doesn't have a ton planned. His original plan for the series, which he apparently thought up at least in broad strokes decades ago, ended where TUC ends. - The first book may focus on the crab-handed kid, or may be a collection of short stories, or both? - Kellhus is "dead but not done." Ajokli can't find him or doesn't know where he is or something like that. - Bakker may be considering a prequel novel set prior to TDTCB
|
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2017 22:33
|
|
|
The nonman that Kellhus fights at the very start of the series is the same nonman he fights a couple times during the big battle in TUC, right (Mekeretrig or whatever)? It seems like that nonman is a pretty high-ranking/important dude in the Consult, why is he wandering around in the middle of nowhere at the start of the series? I know there isn't going to be a satisfying answer and the number of "wait what's the deal with..." questions that will forever remain unanswered is high, but this one seems especially weird. Bold Robot fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Nov 28, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Nov 28, 2017 18:19
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:The prose down in Ishterebinth is like the raving of an ancient race whose immortality was gifted to them by a plague that tragically killed all their editors I forget the details but isn’t it confirmed that the last two books didn’t receive any meaningful editing at all? Like the publisher completely dropped the ball or something. At the very least, they both had a lot of typos.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 19, 2018 00:43
|
|
|
There really isn't a satisfying answer to the Ajokli stuff, even though "what is up with Kellus and what is his endgame" is the central question of the sequel series. In theory this is stuff we might get answers to if Bakker writes more books, but it's not clear if there will be more books, or if there are, whether they will tie up any of the loose strings. I read a bunch of interviews with Bakker after finishing the series and he seems to have strange views on things that still need to be explained vs. things that he feels were explained in the books.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2018 14:34
|
|
|
papa horny michael posted:That motherfucker. Bakker has a weird habit of revealing/confirming/denying stuff in random spots online. For example there’s an interview he did with some random fantasy blog in like 2011 where he explains that the Tusk was made by the Inchoroi to trick ancient men into fighting the Nonmen. Why spill the beans on this kinda interesting piece of background on a blog and not weave it into the story? 
|
|
#
¿
Feb 1, 2018 01:41
|
|
|
Strom Cuzewon posted:TUC ending spoilers: I remember the second part a little differently. The Consult have a bunch of skin spies holding chorae surrounding Kellhus. The Ajokli thing happens and Kellhus/Ajokli is able to hold/control the skin spies, who stop advancing on him. Kelmomas has been sneaking around and runs up behind the Dunyain Consult dudes and starts stabbing them - iirc he thinks he's helping, like with Sorweel. When this happens, Kellhus's concentration and/or possession is broken and he goes "K-Kel?" The interruption has caused his control over the skin spies to slip, and the closest one touches him with a chorae. Not that it really makes any more sense or provides more resolution this way, though.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 1, 2018 15:13
|
|
|
skasion posted:I think it’s generally more in keeping with Kelmomas’ character that he would gently caress everything up for everyone by mistake trying to get daddy to love him, than that he would gently caress everything up on purpose in exactly the way he intended. Though who knows if Kelmomas’ character has any further relevance. Kellhus flew in yeah. I think there might be like one scene where Kelmomas sneaks into one of the lower levels of the ark (or maybe just sneaks away from the camp?), but how he got to the top doesn’t get an explanation that I remember. To be fair, it’s well established that Kelmomas is really good at sneaking around.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 1, 2018 17:23
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:It's aggravating to me that both trilogies begin with a set of propelling questions. In the first you've got 'do the Consult still exist', 'who attacked the Scarlet Spires', and 'what is happening to Kellhus' (plus the more basic plot question of 'what will happen to the Holy War?') All of them get interesting answers. In the second trilogy you've got 'why did Achamian's dreams change', 'why do the Consult think Mimara's baby is important', 'why are we spending so much time with this murder kid', and 'what's Kellhus ultimately planning?' About half of those get answers. The baby, the Judging Eye, and the dreams feel like they never really came to anything. Part of what helps the first trilogy hold together is that the basic plot is a deceptively straightforward retelling of the First Crusade. Even beyond the idea of “vaguely Christian dudes attack vaguely Muslim dudes,” the timeline, description of locations/cities, and battles map pretty closely onto what actually happened. Several of the characters must be based on real historical figures, most clearly Saubon but also Proyas, Xerius, even Kellhus, etc. I agree that aggravating is a good word to use. There’s a lot to like in these books, especially in the first trilogy, but the more I think about it the less satisfying the ending feels.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 1, 2018 22:00
|
|
|
skasion posted:The original No-God was the Anasurimbor prince who got buried alive and then mailed off to the Consult, right? The time frame seems to line up roughly and it seems like you need the Anasurimbor gene-seed or whatever to run the No-God’s box. But on the other hand, I thought the guy was secretly Seswatha’s kid. If that’s true then I don’t know how it would work at all. Yeah all of this is correct I believe. The original Anasurimbor dude being probably Seswatha’s kid doesn’t really fit with what we know about how the No-God works and there isn’t any clear explanation.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 15, 2018 20:18
|
|
|
kcroy posted:The holy war is the main background feature. It parallels the actual Crusades at some level. For example, the "Childrens Crusade" which really happened is mirrored in an event called the "Vulgar Crusade" in the books. Everyone is trying to control the holy war for their own purposes. Close, you're thinking of the People's Crusade, which immediately preceded the First Crusade. The Children's Crusade was over 100 years later but also got owned really hard. The plot and progression of the Holy War parallels the First Crusade extremely closely, even down to like, the geography of the battles and cities as Bakker describes them.
|
|
#
¿
May 1, 2018 14:06
|
|
|
Strom Cuzewon posted:Given the huge gap between White-Luck Warrior and Great Ordeal, and then the speed with which Unholy Consult followed I get the feeling his publisher no longer gave a poo poo, and then hastily rushed publication to fulfil whatever contract they had with him. They certainly feel less tightly edited than PoN. Even putting the plot stuff aside, the last two books have a ton of typos. I think there's a thread on the second-apocalypse.com forums where Bakker says he recalls sending corrections on some of them to the publisher but they never got fixed, or something like that. So yeah I think the publisher really phoned it in at the end.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 10, 2018 01:40
|
|
|
Mukulu posted:I say I say that was a joke sir. The concept for the ending (bad guys win, sometimes poo poo doesn’t work out) is good, the execution (most plot threads either don’t resolve at all or resolve in a really unsatisfactory way) is lame and lazy storytelling. The first trilogy is still rad though and I would still recommend it.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 10, 2018 03:29
|
|
|
Lunchmeat Larry posted:What do you think oil is 
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2018 03:53
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 14:01 |
|
|
Tosk posted:I made this point a page or two ago and someone already voiced their disagreement then, but I think people feel more let down by Bakker than some other fantasy authors because the first trilogy was really good. Yes, with all the important caveats that jump immediately to mind, but nonetheless, it was some solid fantasy.  I enjoyed the first trilogy and had no problem with the "good guys lose" ending, but the second trilogy was just a mess. Only a few of the various plots really went anywhere or mattered at all, which made for a really unsatisfying ending in a different way than I think Bakker was aiming for.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 30, 2020 15:09
|
|