|
Traveller posted:(note: you probably shouldn't use words like 'heimin' or 'eta' around actual Japanese people.) If you're gonna file the serial numbers off of feudal japan, why would you keep the caste discrimination?
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 15:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 16:00 |
|
|
To Protect Flavor posted:If you're gonna file the serial numbers off of feudal japan, why would you keep the caste discrimination? I'm sure the answer rhymes with "quick".
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 16:02
|
|
|
Is it really intolerable for any game to deal with the ugliness of things like slavery and caste systems?
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 16:08
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Is it really intolerable for any game to deal with the ugliness of things like slavery and caste systems? It's not intolerable, but there's an implicit understanding that the game creator should do their proper research and diligence and represent the topic tastefully and appropriately. Given the issues others have already brought up with the rest of John Wick's Legend of the Five Rings, it doesn't seem like that's what's happening here.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 16:11
|
|
|
I've only played 4th edition, which seems to handle that and the issue of sex and gender pretty well. A big problem with Wick is that he can't stop his inner rear end in a top hat from coming out. He'll tell you to play proper samurai and roleplay bushido and the social context of fantasy not-Japan and all that, but then he'll tell the GM to gently caress you over for doing that, just because.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 16:14
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Is it really intolerable for any game to deal with the ugliness of things like slavery and caste systems? I think it's okay if you actually explore the idea and not just use it as set dressing. And to be fair to L5R at least one module, The City of Lies, explores the role of Eta in Rokugan. When the lower castes are just punching bags for the writers to make the Murderous Doomed Highborn Manchildren feel bad, I think it's okay to remind everyone who put them there in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 16:15
|
|
|
Having a slave character class and recommending that character be the property of another player was the thing that turned me off Mutant Year Zero.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 16:54
|
|
|
Swagger Dagger posted:Having a slave character class and recommending that character be the property of another player was the thing that turned me off Mutant Year Zero.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 17:01
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Unless they're really going to engage with that issue in the manner of Sagas of the Icelanders, that is just a horrible idea. From what I recall, RBH didn't have many good things to say about Sagas of the Icelanders, either.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 17:05
|
|
|
?
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 17:08
|
|
|
Rulebook Heavily, our forum's resident Icelandic historian from Iceland.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 17:09
|
|
|
The best thing about the 90s ending was the end of those dumb as gently caress 'stereotype' sections for each faction in RPGs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 17:11
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Unless they're really going to engage with that issue in the manner of Sagas of the Icelanders, that is just a horrible idea. Sagas of the Icelanders forces weird modern / ahistorical conceptions of sex and gender on my culture and claims "historical authenticity" in order to defend and "explore" them, so I wouldn't be impressed even then.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:The best thing about the 90s ending was the end of those dumb as gently caress 'stereotype' sections for each faction in RPGs. Oh, those are all still there in 4th Edition L5R. And they're as dumb now as they were then.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 17:14
|
|
|
Yeah, in 4th edition every clan has other clans that they hate, and others that they merely despise. In some cases, there's one clan that they deem worthy of a backhanded compliment.Rulebook Heavily posted:Sagas of the Icelanders forces weird modern / ahistorical conceptions of sex and gender on my culture and claims "historical authenticity" in order to defend and "explore" them, so I wouldn't be impressed even then.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 17:18
|
|
|
An Extra Bit of Ironclaw Setting Stuff Because Christ It's Still Raining: I suppose it's time to talk a little about one of the biggest mysteries of the setting: The Autarchs. Unless there's a ton of stuff in sourcebooks I don't have (I've only got the main book for 2e; considering the amount of setting info I've put out already it feels more than comprehensive enough to me) what the hell these guys were (or if they really existed at all) is unknown. Almost every people claims to have faced them or to have faced some leaving of their presence during the formative wars and beginnings of the groups that would become their countries and it's often-times hinted that the Autarchs possessed magic on a scale that no modern wizard can manage. It's hinted occasionally that some of the truly great magical feats of the current day, like the invention of White Magic by Helloise, the founding heroine of the S'Allumerite Penitents, might have something to do with that sort of older power (there is at least one heretical sect that claims she was a being from beyond, an alien creature sent to guide the world, or an Autarch herself). The way I've always run it, myself, is that the Autarchs probably existed and there was likely a time of legends wherein Ironclaw was a much 'higher' fantasy setting full of monsters and great feats of spellcraft and creatures that could easily be called Gods. The legends of almost every group hint at it, and in a world where magic certainly exists and there definitely were some pretty big ancient magical calamities, it doesn't seem that implausible. To me, Ironclaw is a world that started as high fantasy and has seen the monsters and epic wizards recede into the mists of legend, and that the current lower-fantasy trappings of the world are probably a boon to its people. It's much better to have to worry about war, poverty, famine, and disease in normal terms rather than fearing some Dark Lord is going to alter the fabric of reality and lay waste to an entire country. What I like is that this is actually kept ambiguous. There are hints, there's information and hooks you can work with, but unless there's a book I'm not familiar with the central mystery of the setting gets to stay a mystery, to be resolved (or ignored) as your table prefers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
The main issue I have is that Legend of the Five Rings often reinforces the superiority of the upper castes on a metaphysical, mechanical, and narrative level. There are exceptions, to be sure, but even when there are they're almost always co-opted into the samurai class structure or given ignominious endings.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 18:51
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:The main issue I have is that Legend of the Five Rings often reinforces the superiority of the upper castes on a metaphysical, mechanical, and narrative level. There are exceptions, to be sure, but even when there are they're almost always co-opted into the samurai class structure or given ignominious endings. Funny thing, though: I have never, ever seen the people who throw tantrums about the aristocracy in Blue Rose or horseback riding in Reign have anything to say about this factor in L5R.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 19:11
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, in 4th edition every clan has other clans that they hate, and others that they merely despise. In some cases, there's one clan that they deem worthy of a backhanded compliment. Oh jeez not now, I've been meaning to for like a year+ but writing thousands of words on Norse conceptions of gender and gender roles just to refute an RPG seems to never fit into my schedule. Remind me though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 19:22
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:The main issue I have is that Legend of the Five Rings often reinforces the superiority of the upper castes on a metaphysical, mechanical, and narrative level. There are exceptions, to be sure, but even when there are they're almost always co-opted into the samurai class structure or given ignominious endings. Biggest irritation for me (beyond the usual Wickisms, though I actually feel like there's some interesting stuff to salvage out of things like the Scorpions) is how the early system constantly shits on the idea of ronin as viable PCs. Were they not paying attention to their source material or something? Ronin pop up a ton in samurai fiction. Why gimp them mechanically when the mere social consequences of their status do a good job making their lives hell already? Worst part about the caste system is they tease a way to play with it interestingly with the Kolat (though the 1E sourcebook bait and switch was bullshit) then gently caress it up. I really hope FFG changes the setting/mechanics a ton, nerd outrage be damned.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 19:25
|
|
|
MadDogMike posted:Biggest irritation for me (beyond the usual Wickisms, though I actually feel like there's some interesting stuff to salvage out of things like the Scorpions) is how the early system constantly shits on the idea of ronin as viable PCs. Were they not paying attention to their source material or something? Hello, I see you aren't familiar with John Wick's Entire Body Of Work. The only thing that puts him above a TvTropes 'genre savvy subversion' type is that he has, at least, actually written his stuff. Realistically, though, it's more a result of 90s RPG mindsets where you weren't supposed to say 'no' to stuff but rather gimp the hell out of it and be passive aggressive about 'Oh, you want equal power and ability? I didn't know you were such a roll-player and not a ROLE-player, man.' Night10194 fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Aug 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 19:27
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Hello, I see you aren't familiar with John Wick's Entire Body Of Work. Stupidest thing, if he really wants to subvert/deconstruct the whole samurai system he should have made it a ronin-only game instead, nothing like having the PCs at the rear end end of the social system to really take the piss out of it after all. Also a great way to demonstrate to players just how limited "will kill things for food" is as a survival strategy. Instead he plays the whole samurai/bushido thing straight apart from his beloved Scorpions and waifu Kachiko, who seem far more interesting once people got them the hell out of Wick's hands and actually explored the idea of people so devoted to service they will throw away honor itself. Now THERE'S a way to deconstruct bushido, make the sneaky untrustworthy bastards more loyal than all the "nice clans" and ask who are the better servants to their lords. But no, we just get the Rokugan Mafia who are mysteriously allowed to continue existing for Reasons.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
MadDogMike posted:Biggest irritation for me (beyond the usual Wickisms, though I actually feel like there's some interesting stuff to salvage out of things like the Scorpions) is how the early system constantly shits on the idea of ronin as viable PCs. Were they not paying attention to their source material or something? Ronin pop up a ton in samurai fiction. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Aug 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 19:52
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Wick's entire writing career is Show Me On The Doll Where D&D Touched You. He understandably doesn't want to make more games wherein you play wandering, violent hobos with no social connections. But he presents this in a nasty, scornful way, both in this game and in Blood & Honour: "You want to play ronin? Here you go! You suck and all your stuff sucks and everyone hates you! How ya like dem apples? Welcome to the real world, jackass!" Instead of just saying "There are other games that will let you play a D&D party in fantasy Japan, but that's really not the focus here, despite appearances." I'm just going to imagine now that the video is just an average day for Wick. It's just too appropriate.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 21:13
|
|
|
Legend of the Five Rings First Edition OG Stabbers I forgot to mention how Experience works. Characters get XP points as they play the game. They're spent in a similar manner to CP, but raising a skill costs as much XP as the new skill rating and a trait costs (new trait rank x 5) Surely nothing can go wrong when CP do not equal XP!  The Lion Clan lives around the center of Rokugan and is the clan of honorable punches (whereas the Crab are the clan of dirty punches). They have the largest army, even larger than the Crab who have to fight Hell on Earth every day. Legends say that Akodo, the Kami of the Lion, chose a warrior called Matsu as his bride instead of a pretty Doji girl. Matsu took the courtship as an insult and dueled him for control of the Clan: it's a famous story, represented in plays and novels, that always ends with Matsu losing to Akodo but not being forced to marry him. Generally the Lion are considered to be sticklers for tradition and o'ld-fashioned, but also the greatest warriors and generals - no army with an Akodo at its head has ever lost a battle, apparently. Their families are the Akodo (+1 Perception), ruled by Akodo Toturi, the greatest strategist of the Empire; the Matsu (+1 Strength), matriarchal and rivals to the Akodo for preeminence in the Clan; and the Kitsu (+1 Intelligence) who don't have a good reputation in shugenja circles due to their old fashioned ways. Their shugenja school is the Kitsu school. +1 to Intelligence, 3.5 Honor. They get a free raise to Water spells. Their skills are Calligraphy, Etiquette Heraldry, History, meditation, any High skill and any Bugei skill. Their spells are Sense, Commune, Summon, 3 Water spells, 2 Fire spells and 1 Earth spell. Their bushi school is the Akodo school (+1 to Strength, 3.5 Honor) Their skills are Bard, Battle, Defense, History, Kenjutsu, Archery and any other Noble skill.
The  est dudes. what is that yodotai i do not know what you are talking aboutStereotypes posted:Crab: They are courageous and fearless in their duty, and we owe them much for the protection they have given us. We respect them for their strength and cunning on the battlefield (even if their manners are a bit uncouth), but we do not trust them.  The Phoenix Clan live up northeast, on the opposite end from the Crab and the Shadowlands. The first shugenja were their ancestors, an order of holy men that worshiped and coaxed the Fortunes and lesser kami into creating magical effects. The Kami Shiba brought them together and merged their ways with the Tao of Shinsei, creating the underpinnings of Rokugani philosophy. Only one of the Clan's families has a bushido school; everyone else focuses on shugenja and scholarly studies. They are the least militant of all the Clans and prefer peaceful solutions over everything. It's not like Phoenix bushi are cowards, but Phoenix shugenja (the real leaders of the clan) are reluctant to get drawn into conflict. Their families are the Isawa (+1 Awareness), whose Five Elemental Masters train the most gifted students into the magical arts; the Shiba (+1 Intelligence), who are the Clan Champion's family even though it is the Five Elemental Masters who truly rule the Clan; and the Asako (+1 Perception), the greatest historians of the Empire, though the Lion's Ikoma family may dispute that. Who are the Ikoma and why didn't they show up in the Lion writeup? Buy the relevant clanbook, sucker! Their shugenja school is the Isawa school. +1 Void, 2.5 Honor. They get a free Raise on Rital spells, and may use any number of Void Points when casting spells. Their skills are Calligraphy, Investigation, Meditation, Shintao, Theology and other two High skills. Their spells are Sense, Commune, Summon, 3 of any Element, 2 of any other Element and 1 of any other Element. Their bushi school is the Shiba school (+1 Intelligence, 2.5 Honor) Their skills are Tea Ceremony, Defense, Kenjutsu, Meditation, Naginata, Shintao and Archery.
The  est dudes.Stereotypes posted:Crab: They perform a necessary duty for the Empire, but that does not make them noble. They would take the Empire if they could, which makes them selfish, brutish and short-sighted. Only together can we survive.  Just look at how that guy is all RAISE THE ROOF The Scorpion Clan live in a central position, sandwiched between Lion and Crab. They know stuff, secret stuff, and they make sure that you know that they know. That is how they survive: they keep the secrets of others. They don't have the strongest warriors or the most powerful shugenja, so they make do with skullduggery, sneakiness and the odd blackmail attempt or assassination. They have used their own poor fame, combined it with Rokugan's social mores and turned it into a weapon. You can't trust them, but they can be useful to you... A good question is why the other Clans don't just team up to kill the Scorpion. Well, it's Their shugenja school is the Soshi school. +1 to Awareness, 1.5 Honor. They get a free raise to Air spells. Their skills are Calligraphy, Court or Etiquette, Meditation, Sincerity, Theology or Shintao, and another two High skills. Their spells are Sense, Commune, Summon, plus 3 Air spells, 2 Water spells and 1 Fire spell. Their bushi school is the Bayushi school (+1 Intelligence, 1.5 Honor) Their skills are Defense, Iaijutsu, Kenjutsu, Stealth, Sincerity, Archery and Poison. Stealth and Poison? But those are Low skills! Dishonorable!
The  est dudes.Stereotypes posted:Crab: The Crab (much like everyone else) would destroy us if they could. They are as ambitious as we are, but are undisciplined and untrained in the arts of subtlety, and that is why they make such excellent allies.  The Unicorn Clan is located northwest, over the Crab. Back in the time of the Kami, Hantei ordered his sister Shinjo and her followers to explore the world beyond the mountains. She took her people and went away for around 800 years. 200 years back, they came back with fabulous wealth, foreign customs and, most importantly, powerful warhorses the likes of which were unknown in Rokugan. They fit their new culture and customs in Rokugan's social fabric, but even now there are still many people who see them as uneducated youngsters at best and foreign barbarians at worst. All Clans can agree, however, that Unicorn cavalry is the best in the Empire. Their families are the Shinjo (+1 Reflexes), ruled by Clan Champion Shinjo "Master of the Four Winds" Yokatsu; the Otaku (+1 Agility), who have much in common with the Matsu family (women in power, swift attacks); and the Iuchi (+1 Awareness), a shugenja family with a lot of foreign tricks unknown in Rokugan at large. Their shugenja school is the Iuchi school. +1 Perception, 2.5 Honor. They get a Free Raise for Air spells. Their skills are Calligraphy, Hunting, Defense, Horsemanship, Herbalism, Meditation and another Bugei skill. Their spells are Sense, Commune, Summon, 3 Air spells, 2 Fire spells and 1 Earth spell. Their bushi school is the Shinjo school (+1 Agility, 2.5 Honor) Their skills are Hunting, Defense, Horsemanship 2, Kenjutsu, Naginata and Archery (based on Agility instead of Reflexes)
The  est dudes.Stereotypes posted:Crab: We have much in common with them. Many disdain the crab because the duty they chose makes them 'dirty.' Those who make such judgments must also feel that we are 'dirty.' Remember what Shinsei said: 'Find allies in your enemy's foes.' Finally, we have Ronin. Who are poor enough that they don't get art. Ronin are samurai that for some reason or other have no family or Clan, and so have no family name. They're considered to be just above non-warrior samurai in the Celestial Order, but generally they have a low reputation. They have no master to answer to but few people will care to teach family arts to a fallen warrior. Ronin can be bushi or shugenja, and there are two kinds. Clan Ronin are former Clan members that lost favor with their Lord. They're made with the regular chargen rules, but must take Social Disadvantage (Ronin) and cannot progress in their school beyond the first rank. True Ronin never had a clan in the first place. They must take the Social Disadvantage as well, but they get 45 CP to make their character. They don't get Family or School trait benefits, however, and can only raise a Skill or Trait up to 3 at chargen just like regular characters. True Ronin bushi have no techniques, while True Ronin shugenja start with Sense, Commune, Summon and 7 spells with a Mastery Level equal to their Ring rank plus one. Their skills are Hunting and any other six skills, and they may use Low skills without losing Honor. They start with 2.5 Honor. Bushi gear is also pretty poor and they get little money, while shugenja gear is average compared to the clan outfits. 45 CP sounds like a lot, but clan samurai get two free trait points, as well as the all-important techniques and a higher social position. And good luck finding new spells as a ronin shugenja! Point is, Ronin are the  est dudes. They don't even get stereotypes.Next: DRAMATICAL MURDER
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 21:52
|
|
|
If I was going to pitch a far-east game to my players, I think I honestly might go for Jadeclaw over L5R.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
Crasical posted:If I was going to pitch a far-east game to my players, I think I honestly might go for Jadeclaw over L5R. What frustrates me the most about L5R is that there's enough cool poo poo that I would like to play a campaign in it, but not before making major changes to move it away from rear end in a top hat: The Smug.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 00:45
|
|
|
Crasical posted:If I was going to pitch a far-east game to my players, I think I honestly might go for Jadeclaw over L5R. Is Jadeclaw a good game? I never actually picked it up, mostly because I never saw it on sale.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 01:09
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Is Jadeclaw a good game? I never actually picked it up, mostly because I never saw it on sale. It's Ironclaw but set in Asia.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 01:13
|
|
|
Mors Rattus posted:It's Ironclaw but set in Asia. But, like, is it well done Asia? Because I am totally down for that premise if it is. Also, Sanguine recently put Albedo up for sale in PDF form on Drivethru RPG. I remember some people were interested from my review but it was out of print and not on sale at the time. Now it is!
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 01:19
|
|
|
It's more Wuxia China than Japan, and there isn't really a huge deep body of lore on it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 01:21
|
|
|
From what I recall of my last read of the latest edition of it (a supplement for Ironclaw) it's...not great but not offensively horrible in most respects? There's just not a lot of detail, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 01:21
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:I agree with this; it's definitely problematic. On the one hand, there are times when the writing seems to imply that the caste system is fundamentally unjust and deeply flawed. On the other hand, other writing implies that the caste system is directly handed down to humankind from the divine forces of goodness. It waffles based on the writer. An early adventure, Void in the Heavens, features the Scorpion losing their goddamn poo poo when the Oracle of Fire selects an eta as his successor, and very clearly being in the wrong. But then you have the Kolat, whose quest to throw off divine right is at best petulant and at worst psychopathically insane. MadDogMike posted:Now THERE'S a way to deconstruct bushido, make the sneaky untrustworthy bastards more loyal than all the "nice clans" and ask who are the better servants to their lords. In theory that's exactly what the Scorpion are. Way of the Scorpion pounds it into your head if nothing else. The first problem is that loyalty is largely only internal to the clan so it's a fair weather virtue. The second problem is that being the loyaliest folks in a setting where most samurai are willing to put a razorblade in their gut rather than embarrass their family- it ends up just being a matter of degree or braggadocio than something really distinctive, IMO. Halloween Jack posted:Wick's entire writing career is Show Me On The Doll Where D&D Touched You. More or less, I get the impression he really wants RPing to be a group activity and to avoid lone wolves and standalone supermen, but the notion of passive-aggressively undermining these things instead of just saying so is where the problems come up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 04:00
|
|
|
Legend of the Five Rings First Edition Legend of the Initiative Roll  Holy poo poo the art took a sudden Birthright tour here It's time for the Book of Fire! That is to say, the main game system chapter. What's that, you can't wait to hear what Ginawa and company are up to? Me neither! Ginawa, Hijiko and their Scorpion companions line up at a vantage point to watch the Lion and the Crane armies about to fight each other. They must be very close or the Matsu general leading the Lion has a very loud voice, because Ginawa can hear his boasting loud and clear! He seems to know things about the Matsu... maybe too much! Anyway, Ginawa helpfully explains to Hijiko the Crane strategy. The Crane general shows up, asks politely that the Lion surrender, the Lion general is "lol no" and the Crane general is "lol u suck" and the Lion general is like "oh now it's on" and they get ready for a duel! Both Hijiko and Ginawa can tell that the Lion is no match for the Crane, and sure enough, the Matsu general is cut down. The battle begins and it looks like the Crane had it... until the Crane general gets an arrow to the throat for his troubles. An arrow fired from somewhere too close, and wouldn't you know - the Scorpions are gone. Ginawa is on the case before Hijiko can stop them, while the battle rages on. The Scorpions were hiding nearby, also watching the battle. They deny any involvement with the death of the Crane, but Ginawa is having none of it. The Scorpions decide to take care of the insolent ronin, Ginawa draws his cursed sword... and things get really, really ugly. While Skills are associated with certain Traits, it is the system's intent that any skill can be rolled with any trait depending on circumstances. For instance, Stamina + Horsemanship could be used for a long, tiresome ride, or Intelligence + Kenjutsu when the character wants to identify someone's sword technique. All the traits can get some use with all skills, with the possible exception of Strength which is just used in straight Trait rolls or other situations that require raw muscle (like hacking through a guy) In Trait + Skill rolls, normally you roll the sum of both stats and keep the Trait ones. In pure Trait rolls you keep everything. The usual TN for stuff is 15, and while other difficulties are given in multiples of 5 for convenience there's no reason why the GM couldn't call a TN of 14 or 23 for a roll. Raises increase a roll's TN in 5 to cause a greater effect; a character can only make Raises up to their Void rank. A player can call for Raises if they want a specific effect, or the GM can tell them how many Raises it takes to do something particularly hard. A Free Raise gives the benefit of a Raise without actually increasing the TN: these come from school techniques, special circumstances, buffs and so on. Blind Rolls are made when the GM doesn't want to give the TN of a roll or even what roll is being made. However, if the player is not informed of the TN the GM must grant them all the Raises that they could have gotten if they beat the hidden TN. Contested Rolls are made between two characters, rolling against the relevant Trait times five. As mentioned before, the winner is the one that succeeds, or if both succeed the one that makes the most Raises or scores the highest gets a marginal victory. Mutual failure just means the contest carries on. However many dice you get to roll, you can only roll a maximum of ten dice in a single roll. When characters work together, one is chosen as the primary actor and the rest add their Skill ratings to their roll, or give them a single extra dice per helper if the roll only involves a Trait.  Bwahaha, look at this nerd with huge head and tiny arms Void! Spending a Void Point raises one of your Traits in 1 for that roll, basically representing a character getting into "the zone" and performing beyond normal capabilities. A character normally can only spend one Void Point per roll. Spending points does not mean the Void rank goes down, though! Void Point are recovered fully at the beginning of an adventure, after a night's sleep, with a TN 20 Meditation roll or a Void + Tea Ceremony roll that recovers 1 point if performed successfully (Tea Ceremonies can be done for more than one people) The game tells us that novices may think high Traits are better than high Skills, but that is not the case! Skills give more dice, so you have more choices about what to keep and ignore, and any of those extra dice could explode. The idea is that characters with wound penalties are more affected if they have less Skills and experience. Sure, okay. Honor! L5R seems to assume that rolls can be made against PCs to change their mind about stuff, seducing or manipulating them. There's no actual social conflict system. Anyway, when a character is forced to make an action they consider dishonorable, and/or blow the Willpower roll to resist it, they may make a Honor roll as the last resort. They roll their Honor rank against a GM-assigned TN, and if they succeed they resist the temptation and gain one Honor point. If they fail, they lose a whole Honor rank as their confidence in themselves is shaken. Which is a really huge thing for one blown roll, really.  loving exploding tens, seriously Combat! We have two systems for combat here. The first one is Skirmish, for two to around a dozen characters involved. Initiative is rolled as 1d10 + Reflexes. This d10 may also explode. The combatants are ranked from highest to lowest Initiative, and then they declare their actions in reverse order so that faster characters can anticipate slower actions. Each skirmish is broken down into five-second Turns, where each character may attempt one thing. A character may attempt one of the following Maneuvers in a Turn:
Once all actions are declared, the GM works through them from highest initiative downwards. Right! Raises in combat can be used for a number of things. Usually they can be used to increase the damage (1 extra damage die), or to perform called shots to hit a particular area of the opponent's body. The exact effects of doing so are left to the GM, as is the number of Raises needed to hit a given area. So you can do things from striking at their arms up to giving them a close moustache shave.  It's Samurai Getting hosed O'Clock here Damage! All weapons have a damage rating, expressed as a R&K number. For instance, a katana has a DR of 3k2. You add your Strength to the first number and keep the dice the weapon tells you. Damage from spells, poisons or other sources has a DR that is usually given as a single number, which just means you roll that many dice and keep them all. Getting wounded sucks, as you go down the wound levels. Characters have 0, -1, -2, -3, -4, Down, Out and Dead wound levels, where each level has (Earth x 2) Wounds. When you're wounded, you roll less dice depending on the level you're at (see, going first matters). A Down character can barely crawl and whisper, and the TN to hit them is 5. An Out character is knocked unconscious for as many hours as Wounds they have at this level. To die, a character must completely fill out their Dead level. Healing is slow without magic: after a night's sleep a character recovers their Stamina in Wounds. At the GM's discretion, Down or Out characters may suffer more lasting consequences. Iaijutsu Duels! These get their own rules. First of all, both duelists make Awareness + Iaijutsu rolls at TN 15. Success lets them know one of the following: their opponent's Agility, Iaijutsu or Void. Raises can be made to learn more. After this roll is made, a duelist may acknowledge defeat. This is honorable, but if the other duelist wants to carry on the duel they must stay or be branded a coward. If the duel continues, the TN to hit a duelist is 5. The character with the highest Reflexes may choose Focus or Strike. If they Focus, they Raise the TN in 5. The other duelist may choose between Focus or Strike as well. Each character may Focus up to their Void rank. Once one chooses Strike, from preference or because they cannot Focus anymore, their opponent attacks rolling against the last TN they bid for. This is Agility + Iaijutsu. If the attacker misses or does not kill the other duelist, then they may strike back, at a TN that should be 5 less than the first attacker's TN. In case of hitting, damage is Strength + Katana DR, plus any Raises due to Focus. If both duelists are still standing after the initial trade of blows, they may continue fighting a regular kenjutsu skirmish, or consider their honor satisfied if it was a first-blood duel or a simple test of skill.  gently caress off snekman, you're not worthy of iaijutsu now smell my foot Battles are for big mass engagements. The rules for actually handling the mass combat are extremely simplistic (contested Perception + Battle rolls between each side's generals); instead, what the Battle rules are for is to determine individual character's fates. Each Battle round, a character determines where they will be fighting: Reserves, Disengaged, Engaged or Heavily Engaged, from less to more danger. After this declaration is made, the GM determines how the battle is faring for each side (winning, losing, even). Then, each character rolls 1d10 and adds their Water+Battle to this number, and compares it to a table to see how they fared that round. Each result has a number of Wound Dice that the characters automatically take that turn; characters subtract Reflexes + Defense from that number. Wearing heavy armor or being a shugenja also reduces the damage taken. They also score a number of Glory Dice to add to their Glory. Going on the offensive when your side is losing can be very Glorious, and very hard to survive! Staying back where it's safe will get you through the battle, but with little to show for it. A Battle result may also indicate a Duel (an enemy hero sees you and you must engage them in a skirmish - it is possible even to start an iaijutsu duel, because people will leave you two alone to do so so as to not insult either of you) or a Heroic Opportunity (a cool thing happens - maybe you get a shot at the enemy general, ride down the enemy archers, get a chance to rescue an wounded ally (or enemy!) and so on. Glory! Here we have some lines on how to earn and lose it. Things that score you points: avenging blood feuds, fighting in battles, completing quests, crafting quality weapons and armor, defeating enemies (defeating Shadowlands enemies is less glorious because it is considered unclean) giving and receiving gifts, getting married (the bride gets her Glory raised up to one below her husband, while he gets as many Glory points as his new father in law's Glory rank - marry well, bud!) performing honorable actions, performing well in court, proclaiming romances (care must be taken - you want to be loud in your love and devotion but in a way that doesn't reveal who your love is, because samurai are not supposed to fall in love) and so on. These actions have to be public, however, and they only count when the daimyo acknowledges them and grants Glory to the character. Glory is much easier to lose, and the only real way to completely stop Glory loss is to commit seppuku. Losing Glory does not require the daimyo to acknowledge the actions (the court can gossip well enough alone) but acknowledgement from a superior makes the Glory loss higher. A character may apologize with an Awareness + Sincerity roll versus the lord or offended party's Awareness x 5: this is a ritual apology that involves a lot of crying and kow-towing. Inglorious deeds include: failing to award Glory (imagine that you're a Lion lord that refuses to award Glory to the snooty Kakita bushi that just won your tournament), publicly losing Honor, being reprimanded in public by a superior, losing your composure, breaking a promise, showing cowardice (half of all your Glory if you retreat from combat!), engaging in criminal activity, eating or drinking too much, using Low skills in public, refusing a contest, refusing a lord's request, or being caught committing treason (Glory to 0 and forget about seppuku, buster!) Finally we get the weapons list. Swords are everything from small aiguchi and tanto to huge no-dachi. Katana and wakizashi are there too: they're good weapons but not the utter best thing. They're also mighty expensive, though you shouldn't need to buy one unless something terrible happens. Polearms roll an additional Initiative die when fighting opponents with shorter weapons. There is the "die tsuchi" (die? Die... wait, like the English word? DAI TSUCHI, FUCKS) warhammer, the iconic naginata, the ono battle axe, and the Crab favorite, the tetsubo. Though some weapons are better than others: the die tsuchi deals the same damage as the tetsubo, 2k2, and both ignore enemy armor, but the tetsubo does not get the polearm initiative bonus for some reason. Plus, the tsuchi is cheaper, I dunno. Bows include the dai-kyu for mounted usage and the yumi when you are on foot. Damage depends on the arrows being used: a regular "ya" arrow deals 2k2 damage, while armor piercing arrows deal 1k2 ignoring enemy armor and "watakusi" (?) flesh cutters deal 3k3 but double the enemy's armor protection. Peasant weapons were developed by monks to help peasants defend themselves against bandits and drunk samurai. They include martial arts staples like the bo, the nunchaku and the tonfa. Super cheap, but it's shameful for samurai to use them. Armor is super simple: there is light armor that adds +5 to the TN to be hit, and heavy armor that adds +10 to the TN but also increases the TN of any physical action in 5. It is not bought, the clan gives armor to their samurai and replaces it when damaged. Shugenja are not supposed to wear armor, since they are not bushi, but some still do and risk offending some bushi because of it.  Samurai are never too far away from their swords, not even in the loo probably. Next: spellcasters that aren't spellcasters??? Traveller fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Aug 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 04:19
|
|
|
 CHAPTER THREE Creating Games and Characters There's a lot of overlap between Hot War and Cold City, but fortunately there are some changes. Setting up a game and characters is consolidated into sections that break down the responsibilities of the players and the GM. Again, creating a game is both the duty of the players and the GM having a jam session. The guidelines are below.   There are still Closed and Open Games with the general structure of the game leaning more towards supporting Open Games for the sake of streamlining play and being more collaborative. There are also recommended Tones and I do like the thread-suggested idea of adding a dash of trippy stuff, even if the game doesn't put that forward as a suggestion. SAMPLE GAME TONES
Character creation follows the same rules of Cold City with light changes. For starters, Hidden Agendas are different. You still take one Personal and one Factional Agenda with the former focusing on things your character wants and the latter focused on what your superiors want you to do. The only real restriction is that the Agendas must be imperative; they must be active and compel the character to do something. Agendas now have RATINGS which are used as a way to gauge how important and fast the Agenda should be completed. The ratings are 3/5/9 and are selected when an Agenda is created. A Rating 3 Agenda can only be used three times before it should be resolved, but you get a +4 dice bonus when it's called on because it's getting the brunt of your focus. Conversely, a Rating 9 Agenda can be used nine times but only confers a +2 dice bonus to your pool. The Rating 5 is five times with a +3 bonus. Agendas should only be used when appropriate and when they're used up they require a conclusion scene to wrap up the whole affair. You can take both of your Agendas with the same rating, but in a long-running game you can't just keep picking Rating 3 Agendas; all three types of Agendas must be completed before one rating can be used again. TRUST is out and replaced with RELATIONSHIPS. Relationships are sort of like Trust, but the big difference is that Relationships affect NPCs, not just PCs. When making a character, the character must have one of the following:
 Positive Relationships: Trust, love, friendship. Gain a bonus to your dice based on the relationship if they're being used to support/help/empower someone or to strengthen the bonds of that relationship. Negative Relationships: Distrust, bad feelings, destruction. Gain a bonus to your dice if your relationship is being used to bully/harm/disempower or if you want to make the relationship less negative. More specific rules about using relationships in the dice pools are included in chapter 4. The rest of chapter 3 is just explaining the Experience Scene, which is the Draw Scene from Cold City but renamed.  CHAPTER FOUR Playing the Game Framing scenes and resolving conflicts are the same as Cold City, but there are some new touches to conflict scenes. For quick or unplanned opposition, the GM can simply assign the enemy a pool of 3/5/7/9 dice depending on how competent or challenging they are, bypassing the need for the GM to stat them out if it's not really important for them to have traits. Hidden Agendas don't have any changes for creating dice pools that weren't previously mentioned. Traits also function identically to Cold City including the rule for succeeding with a negative trait being a "yes but" result. Relationships are different from Trust substantially. In Cold City, Trust was used two ways: call on someone and use the trust you have in them as dice, betray someone and use the trust they have in you as dice. A Relationship can only be used if it has a direct impact on the conflict or may influence the relationship. You can't use how much you hate your dad to motivate you to catch a running criminal unless your dad is involved. Relationships also are at risk of being altered like Traits when brought into play. Positive and Negative Relationships have specific uses, but they also have specific catches depending on who brings the relationship into play and if the people involved are around. With a Positive relationship, the character who owns the relationship gets the first choice to use it if they wish. With a Negative, the other participants get first choice to use the relationship for dice, not the owner. In either cases, whoever gets first choice but doesn't pick it means the other participants in the conflict can use the relationship. However, things change if the conflict is with the object of the relationship. If it's Positive, the owner of the relationship is the last person to get the choice of using the relationship. If it's Negative, the owner of the relationship gets first choice of using the relationship against the object of their relationship. It's written a bit unclear and it's a tricky phrasing of this whole thing, but I get the idea behind it and I like the idea of it. Finally, there's a new important step added. Anyone player not involved in the conflict has the ability to influence the final dice pools of any side as long as they can state a changing factor to the scene and why they're choosing to help or hinder. You can either add or subtract a single die and you can only do this once per conflict. The same rules from before still apply to rolling the dice: whoever gets the most dice higher than their opponent's wins the conflict and the dice that are higher become successes. The same rules also apply for multi-faceted conflicts or working together as a group.  CONSEQUENCES Because the mechanics have changed a bit, so have consequences. You still have success points to spend when the conflict is done, but the big change is that now you can spend points on changing Relationships.  Finally, the rules for Crisis Points and resolving Hidden Agendas stay the same (not counting "you must make a new Hidden Agenda"). CREATING AND USING NPCS The rest of the chapter revolves around making NPCs. If you need a quick obstacle, the early rules still apply: just give them a pool of 3/5/7/9 dice to use. But sometimes you need a NPC with more meat to them. There are two types of NPCs: simple and detailed. You also want to know if the NPC wants to help/get help from/oppose/use the PCs.  Simple NPCs get their stats from a roll on the above chart (like Cold City), get two positive and one negative traits and 3 Relationship points to use. They don't get Hidden Agendas. Simple NPCs can also come in groups, in which case they get +1 to +4 extra stat points to spend (depending on members, max limit is +4) and two more positive traits. Detailed NPCs get 5 attribute points to use, three/two positive/negative traits, six points for relationships and Hidden Agendas (if not a National Agenda, they get two Personal Agendas). A new rule added is asking yourself the question "is this NPC a monster?". This is not a literal thing; yes your NPC could be a monster by virtue of being a 9 foot tall acid-spitting Soviet lizard man but they could very well just be an awful, miserable person. A monster has lost some part of their humanity, gaining +2 points to use on their Attributes and an additional positive and negative trait at the cost of being horrible and despicable. SAMPLE NPCS Lt. Commander Trevor Barlow, RN: Barlow is the Navy's man for running the refugee camps. His decorations, xenophobia and zealousness for rounding up refugees make him perfect for the job and he's surprisingly young for his job. To simplify things, he is a gross son of a bitch and he should probably be killed by the PCs and replaced with someone who is less of a creep. If you don't like any of what I said, you probably should not read his Personal Agenda in his stats. He's a good idea for a villain but that's just a wholly unnecessary detail and a gigantic misstep I can't defend. If you use him, change his Personal Agenda.  Mrs. Irene Joyce: Mrs. Joyce was a simple housewife a year ago, happy with her family and home and her angry, overbearingly Tory husband's political views. Then everything went to hell and her husband died. Irene now has turned against the government as a leader of a Citizens Defense Army cell, her cell assassinating government members and bombing locations.  SAMPLE MONSTERS Bayonet Troops: Bayonet Troops are Soviet Mobile Biological Weapons that look like humans in patched, awkward uniforms wearing gas masks and helmets, armed with bayonet blades. They are not human in the slightest up close: too many joints, wrong posture, no visibility with their masks. Bayonet Troops travel in packs, often at night, and gang up on lone prey to cut them to death. They've been captured in the past but can't survive without their helmets, their child-like faces gasping for the gas they need to breathe. A Bayonet Trooper's life is short: hunt until you die of starvation or from being attacked. London's scientists think they are completely disposable; they don't seem to know anything but hunting and fighting. If that's the case, then why are they still around a year later? Where are they coming from? Most likely source: Alternatives. The stats are for a squad of 5 Troopers.  Creeps: Creeps look human too, clad in Soviet uniforms and resembling normal humans with a disgusting skin condition that seems to have sucked all of the moisture and oil from their pores. It's when they open their mouths that something is deathly wrong: Creeps speak in a broken, barely intelligible babble of Russian and can't actually be spoken to. Autopsy on them reveals that they are most likely the Soviet answer to STs with electrodes mounted on where the spine meets the brain and a wire that runs down the right side of their body beneath the skin. Creeps act like animals, fight like animals, but have animal cunning. They've been seen fighting the remainders of Soviet troops in addition to British soldiers. The worrying thing about the Creeps is that now they've started appearing in British clothing.  The Fear: Also known as Koschei, fear demons are a type of Incursors that are harmless and invisible until they find the perfect feeding ground. They were originally summoned by planting a mole with an Incursor machine raising the levels of paranoia and fear by spreading rumors, lies and distrust. The machines were activated and the Koschei came through, the ambient atmosphere nourishing them. The Soviets then trapped them in containers for later release as a weapon. The more fear is in the area, the stronger they get, eventually culminating in enough power to become corporeal and tear into someone with their claws, devouring their fear directly as they die and going on a rampage of gluttony.  Runners: Runners can never be mistaken for humans. Seven/eight feet wide and six feet tall, the body of the Runner lies flat, supported by six to ten legs (counting their front two legs which can be used like hands) in a weird conglomeration of man and spider. Their heads and faces are replaced by the dangling tube of a lamprey, covered in eyes and full of razor-sharp teeth. They're durable and strong, ripping through barricades and hunting with demented precision. The worst part is that transmitting equipment has been found sewn into the bodies of some of them, wires running to their "heads" and broadcasting to somewhere.  Servitors: Servitors are not from Earth. Servitors consume. They consume the trash they roll over, they consume all of the sound around them, you can't even look at them properly because they seem to consume light or even the ability for you to perceive their form. What survivors and scientists have been able to piece together is that a Servitor looks something like a flowing black mass that moves with the precision of an iceberg. Their weight is immense, crushing everything in front of them, leaving no trash in their wake. There are rumors that the British were trying to develop their own Servitors and a nuke was dropped in the south to destroy a massive Servitor from rolling over London. This is a single medium-sized Servitor, which can be found at random in the countryside or in the Underground prefaced with carpets of rats fleeing from them. Servitors don't get negative traits, but they should get them related to the environment or situation around them. They're pretty much Shoggoths and how Stross was using them in A Colder War.  NEXT TIME: Chapter 5 (organizations) and probably all of Chapter 6 (London and Beyond) and the end of the book, probably. We'll see if I have to break it up but I'm approaching the end. HOOKS   DOCUMENTS, POSTERS, FLYERS   Most likely a Union Movement poster.   PHOTOGRAPHS       
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 05:10
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:In theory that's exactly what the Scorpion are. Way of the Scorpion pounds it into your head if nothing else. The first problem is that loyalty is largely only internal to the clan so it's a fair weather virtue. The second problem is that being the loyaliest folks in a setting where most samurai are willing to put a razorblade in their gut rather than embarrass their family- it ends up just being a matter of degree or braggadocio than something really distinctive, IMO. Hilariously, Way of the Scorpion's own fiction undermines any notion that the Scorpion are the most loyal clan when Bayushi goes all "  MUH SHOSURO!" after Shinsei says she's the Thunder. Meanwhile, Hida happily sends off his son to become a Shadowlands monster, Doji allows her courtier daughter to stand in for her twin brother after he was killed, and Shiba kneels before the mortal Isawa to get him to go along with a suicide mission. And to top it all off Shosuro disobeys her lord anyway, then makes a pack with the Lying Darkness to bring the Black Scrolls back to Rokugan (which apparently didn't amount to much because Shiba still has to sacrifice himself).Also you would think that the Scorpion Clan would take advantage of the fact that Samurai ignore the lower castes and make them a part of their spy networks. Nope! In fact the Scorpion treat heinen and eta the worst of the Great Clans, because despite being Wick's clanfu (or perhaps because), they have to be manchildren who are just as inflexible as the honorable samurai they sneer at.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 05:17
|
|
|
There's a reason Wick's attempts always seem to create games of Doomed Highborn Manchildren.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 05:19
|
|
|
So much Brian Snoddy art, probably most famous for giving Legend of the Five Rings players Hida O-Ushi. He'd go on to found Privateer Press along with fellow L5R alum Matt Wilson, as it turns out. Guy loves samurai armor. He's back to being a freelancer, though, last I heard.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 06:12
|
|
|
Hostile V posted:SAMPLE GAME TONES One of these things is not like the others. Death Line a.k.a. Raw Meat is a weird British cult film about cannibals living in the London Underground, with Creep is a more modern interpretation (although it's director had never seen Death Line). Death Line might be an interesting inspiration, largely because it's lead cannibal is largely sympathetic character (he's basically a feral child turn grown man, having grown up in a disused station collapsed from Victorian days) and the subplot involving his first victim in the film, a politician, which brings detective Donald Pleasence into conflict with a mysterious MI-5 man, played by Christopher Lee. The scene they share together could likely be the template of SSG vs. many of the factions in Hot War, because Lee's Stratton-Villers appears out of nowhere, warns him off the case and threatens to make Pleasence into "a missing person himself". While dressed like this...  Surprisingly, no Children Of Men (I looked and the film would have been on their radar if 2007's 28 Weeks Later and Creep from 2004 was there, if not the book), No Blade Of Grass, or "Survivors" Hostile V posted:PHOTOGRAPHS Like, almost literally pulled from Watkins' The War Game. Only thing missing is an officer walking up and doing a coup de'grace shot to the back of the head of the dying after the firing squad's volley.  BTW, can you jog my memory what an Alternative is? I know what a ST and an Incursor, but I've forgotten.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 08:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 16:00 |
|
|
Traveller posted:In true '90s fashion, we also get stereotypes of what Clans think of the others. How exciting! Oh, Snarky Faction Bullshit™, the most glorious of all 90's RPG tropes. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 08:51
|
|
