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Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



who the gently caress told them Longswords where that heavy? They're sharp, edged weapons not loving clubs.

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Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Robindaybird posted:

who the gently caress told them Longswords where that heavy? They're sharp, edged weapons not loving clubs.

They saw Guts' sword from Berserk and were like 'How can I get my Samurai a dragonslayer'?

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Robindaybird posted:

who the gently caress told them Longswords where that heavy? They're sharp, edged weapons not loving clubs.

Because HANZO STEEL!


I like the Unicorn Clan, but from the sounds of it the metaplot will gently caress them over. Guess I shouldn't be surprised, this is a Wick game after all - I was right on board with 7th Sea up through the Die Kreuzritter book, but after that everything just went bonkers in a bad way.

MightyMatilda
Sep 2, 2015


Robindaybird posted:

who the gently caress told them Longswords where that heavy? They're sharp, edged weapons not loving clubs.

Hey, people have told me it's completely unrealistic for fantasy series to portray women capable of handling swords, so they must be really heavy!

Joking aside, I have no idea why so many people overestimate how much swords weigh. I get that most people (including me) have never even held one, but still. It's the same thing with armor: some people actually think that knights in plate armor needed pulleys to get on horses.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Yeah, the whole 'needs help getting on the horse' has more to do with the joint stiffness in armor than anything else, they couldn't lift their leg high enough sometimes.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



I also blame lovely replica swords

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!


The real problem is that the Unicorn were developed essentially last (well, of the original six clans, the Scorpion were later) and don't really have a strong niche other than "better horses" and "kinda foreign but not really". They got developed better as time goes on but in the original CCG their concept didn't solidify until the last minute. Originally the Unicorn's defining traits were going to be wealth and wizardry, but they had this whole cavalry phase in the game, and somebody had to make use of it... which is why a lot of their early cards don't even feature horses, because they commissioned the art before the clan even had that direction! If you look at the original cards from Imperial Edition and only two of them are on horses, in fact. So you have this mix of different things - wealthy, magical, foreign, horses - but not really a clear concept like the other clans had.

They just weren't very competitive throughout the first block, either, and didn't get much story emphasis... until Jade Edition, in which the design team overcompensated and created a Purple Province Eater that was the bane of the metagame for a good while there.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion




Let's actually take a moment and appreciate how fast (and cooler than katanas) longswords actually are.

Those pants, oh dear.

Wrestlepig
Feb 25, 2011

my mum says im cool



Toilet Rascal

Someone make a game about drunken fancy german mercenaries fighting Land Sharks.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




Mors Rattus posted:

Yeah, the whole 'needs help getting on the horse' has more to do with the joint stiffness in armor than anything else, they couldn't lift their leg high enough sometimes.
Plus I'm pretty sure it was only the case for extremely heavy specialized jousting tournament armor. You can do cartwheels and backflips and jumping jacks and poo poo in normal plate armor.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



Zereth posted:

Plus I'm pretty sure it was only the case for extremely heavy specialized jousting tournament armor. You can do cartwheels and backflips and jumping jacks and poo poo in normal plate armor.

Yep, and the Tournament armor is to dull the impact of catching a lance right in the chest at full gallop, something that's not happening in battle.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion




Robindaybird posted:

Yep, and the Tournament armor is to dull the impact of catching a lance right in the chest at full gallop, something that's not happening in battle.

Well, it is, but the lance has a steel tip on it instead of a padded one so you're pretty dead.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


chaos rhames posted:

Someone make a game about drunken fancy german mercenaries fighting Land Sharks.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay exists.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



wiegieman posted:

Let's actually take a moment and appreciate how fast (and cooler than katanas) longswords actually are.

Those pants, oh dear.

Yeah, longswords are a hell of a lot more versatile. Really, and it reminds me of some research I did in the matter, that katanas have more in common with cavalry sabers, given their length and slashing, than longswords, which are longer by almost a foot in most cases and, as seen in that second video, could be used for thrusting attacks, bludgeoning attacks with the pommel, and, since you were likely wearing gauntlets, being able to use the sword as a fulcrum in close combat.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




Young Freud posted:

Yeah, longswords are a hell of a lot more versatile. Really, and it reminds me of some research I did in the matter, that katanas have more in common with cavalry sabers, given their length and slashing, than longswords, which are longer by almost a foot in most cases and, as seen in that second video, could be used for thrusting attacks, bludgeoning attacks with the pommel, and, since you were likely wearing gauntlets, being able to use the sword as a fulcrum in close combat.

Or just straight up grabbing the blade and bashing people with the other end.

Traveller
Jan 6, 2012

WHIM AND FOPPERY



Legend of the Five Rings First Edition

Way of the Crab: In The Grim Darkness Of The Thousand Years Of Peace, There Is Only War


Holy poo poo that arm

Time for the third Clan book! Main writer in this is Rob Vaux, with additional material by John Wick, Ree Soesbee, Cris Dornaus, Christian Vikander and Zen Faulkes. Also Arnold Schwarzenegger (particularly the last twenty minutes of Predator) is included in the credits, as well as Frank Miller from which they cribbed the "Twenty million drown in blood if I am weak" quote by Hida Yakamo. And off we go!

It starts with a girl, Hida Yoritoko. But everyone knows her as Hida O-Ushi. A little girl, she wants to go into the Shadowlands along with her brother, Hida Yakamo. But he won't let her - she is too young and doesn't realize what that entails. She is having none of that, though, and gathers gear from one of the armories after blackmailing the quartermaster with his gambling debts. She's the daimyo's daughter, after all, and she won't be denied. Armed and equipped with jade, she goes into the Shadowlands! And night falls, and she realizes she has no light with her, and suddenly this adventure is a lot less fun. She finds him along with two other comrades, one of which has gone down under a goblin mob, and charges into the fray! After the goblins are wiped out, her smile is broken by Yakamo's terrible scowl. One of his men is dead; the other is sent back to the Wall to report on the goblin group's annihilation and told not to say a thing about Yakamo's sister. He orders her to sit down and watch the corpse. It's not the first time O-Ushi has seen someone die, but this time is different. What was she thinking? What did she hope to prove? She almost got killed six hours into the Shadowlands and there are worse things than goblins out there. After many hours, the corpse starts moving - it becomes a zombie. O-Ushi starts flipping out, but Yakamo curtly orders her to kill it. Training takes over her fear and she attacks, but the zombie doesn't care about having a warhammer break its neck or anything like that and starts choking the life out of her. With the last of her strength, she stabs it deep in the neck with her knives, and with a heavy headbutt she manages to decapitate the horror. As she falls trembling on her knees, her brother puts a hand on her shoulder. Does she understand now, Yakamo asks. Every human being that dies in the Shadowlands rises like this. Does she understand what has to be done? Could she kill her own brother if he rose as an undead horror? Something dies in the girl's eyes, and she whispers that she could.

Yakamo finally smiles. Now she understands what it means to be a Crab. :black101: Now that's some RPG FICTION.

quote:

For ten centuries, the Crab have stood guard against the greatest enemy the Emerald Empire has ever known. Are you ready to learn their secrets?
Then grab your katana and don't forget a piece of jade; you'll need them where we're going.
Courage is not just a word.


Everyone fights, no one quits.

We get our customary in-setting letters, but first we get this.

quote:

Something bearing my father's face and weeping my mother's tears comes clawing up from the depths, screaming for me to join them. I feel its talons against my armor, snapping leather and metal as if they were origami. I reach for my tetsubo as I hear its hideous laugh, and I know that one blow is all it will allow before it tears the entrails from my bones.

And you sit in your palace and lecture me on courage.

The wall stretches a thousand leagues long, filled with samurai preparing for siege. A sea of goblins stands before me, howling unnameable curses into the air. As they begin to cross the river, I hear that the Crane have launched another foray against our borders to the north. Yet I can do nothing but stay where I am and ensure that no goblin escapes to terrorize the same Cranes who steal our land.

And you lie in your garden and tell me about duty.

The dismal stink of the Shadowlands surrounds us. A towering Oni grabs a pair of bushi and shakes them like children's dolls, snapping their bones into powder. I hear their pleas for help and ignore them, knowing that I am condemning them to a fate worse than death. My daimyo is depending on me to escape this horror, or hundreds more will die as my companions have.

And you stand in your silk robes and explain to me what honor is.

Yeah.

Letter one is from the Lion ambassador to the Scorpion, recalling how in the occasion of the birthday of the Scorpion daimyo's mother there was a great birthday party. Representatives from all clans were sent there and sure enough, politicking ensued. Until a Crab, in full armor and not particularly nice, the Crab delivered his Clan's gift to the daimyo's mother - a precious egg inlaid with jade and ruby that opened to reveal a scene of dancers and acrobats. After that, the Crab left, followed by the daimyo's nephew. Witnesses say that he asked that the Crab stayed, the visitor demurred, and then the nephew made the mistake of insisting that the Crab stayed and allowed himself to be bathed by Scorpion servants, as was the custom. The Crab flipped out and tore the Scorpion's mask from his face, demanding a duel. To the Scorpion's astonishment, the Crab replied that he would not let his guard down when his host wouldn't, and took off leaving the host dejected and humiliated. Scorpion diplomatic barrages were met by Crab stonewalling - the Hida daimyo thought his envoy had acted properly. The second letter comes from Daidoji Nazoko and narrates how after her gempukku she and her sensei went on the trail of an ogre bandit. Seeking justice, they went as far as the Kuni Wastes, where the sensei pointed out the hut of Kuni Mokuna, "the most terrible shugenja since Iuchiban," and how they had to keep from drawing his attention. Eventually, they found the bandit - problem is, he had company. Another two ogres, one of which turned the sensei's head into pulp. Nazoko was willing to sell her life dearly when suddenly the ogres were blasted by intense magical power, making short work of them. It was Kuni Mokuna. She asked how he could do that, completely surprised; he replied that by knowing them as he knew himself. She would not leave his side for the next twenty years.


Being Crane doesn't mean you can't be :black101: with the best of them.

Crab history is defined by the Shadowlands. No other Clan has such a threat to deal with or such a clear purpose. All the way back to the Tournament of the Kami, Hida was the strongest and largest and easily overcame the physical challenges, but was stumped in the contests of wits and insight, and at the final tournament he was the first to fall before Shinjo. He stalked away from his brothers and sisters and berated himself for hours, cursing his weakness. A little old man asked the Kami why he was so angry, and he replied that it was because he was weak, and his strength did not save him from his weakness. Knowing your weakness is a form of strength, said the old man; Hida replied that it was his weakness that made him fall first. Not so: it was his inability to accept his weakness. But now that he knew, it was strength. Lies are told by those who would hide their own weakness. All of which were the things that Hida needed to hear: in later years he sought to overcome his failings, and learned from the Dragon and the Lion closely. By the time Fu Leng rose against the Empire, Hida was the most feared warrior in all of the Empire. He was first in the line against the Shadowlands, seeing them as a test to see if the Kami were fit to rule. Legend has it that Hida even managed to fight Fu Leng personally in the war, scoring a deep wound on the dark lord. When Shinsei appeared again searching for mortal heroes, Hida offered his son Hida Atarasi without thinking of it twice: if Shinsei would not have him or his weapons, he would have his future. In the final assault after the Thunders did their thing, Hida slaughtered more oni than any other, and Hantei asked him to guard the Empire against the evil. He left with his followers and demanded to know who would shoulder the burden of keeping the Empire safe with him. Three volunteers appeared: Hiruma, Kaiu and Kuni. They had done nothing by their own admission that would make them worthy, but they knew they were. Hida ordered them to enter the dark lands and kill an oni called Hatsu Suru, which they did with Hiruma's battle prowess, the blade that Kaiu forged and the spell that Kuni weaved. They returned with the oni's corpse to Hida and truthfully neither claimed the kill for themselves, and Hida knew them to be worthy.

Hida lost his son to the Shadowlands and vowed never to have another child, but some three years after that vow Togashi saw how distraught Hida was and went to the Dragon Lands to tell of his brother's sorrow. The Thunder Dragon took a human form and went to Hida: Crane plays make this a romantic and poetic event, but the "wooing" was less romantic and more "the Thunder Dragon lady banged the brains out of Hida, left him for a year, and came back with a baby." :pervert: Hida's second child was Osano-Wo, son of a kami and a dragon. His first great feat was a war against the Kingdom of the Trolls, where what was left of their race had to flee to the swamps of the Shadowlands so that Osano-Wo could not find them. Unfortunately, his war against the Shadowlands was costing the Clan dearly, and he realized he had to marry into a wealthy family to find more resources. He settled for ordering himself a Matsu bride: the two envoys he sent came back with most of their bones broken. :v: He went to the Matsu castle himself, and that got him his bride - but instead of the brash and feisty Matsu wife, he got himself a stern Matsu stickler for rules that kicked out anyone in his court with the slightest hint of the Taint and complained about everything from the inhospitable Crab palace to his own battle strategies. When she was finally pregnant, Osano-Wo threw a big party - one where he had a little too much sake, as he woke up in a peasant girl's hut. Nine months later, both his wife and the peasant girl bore him children, and Osano-Wo took both in. The boys were raised together, and the noble-born son bested his half-brother in all contests but not for much, fueling speculation on the next heir. When they underwent their gempukku, Osano-Wo presented his peasant son with the Clan's sword. When the enraged Matsu woman demanded to know why, he simply said that her son was a great samurai - a great Lion - but he only knew how to win; not how to lose and keep trying. She left with her son the next morning, all the way to the Islands of Silk and Spice in the Sea of Amaterasu. His descendants would come to be known as the Mantis Clan.

The first internal war in Rokugan was between the Crab and the Crane. Both Clans had started squabbling over the Kenkai Hanto peninsula, which they both claimed for their own purposes. Eventually things escalated to use of force, and the Crab forces easily handed the Crane their asses on a plate, but the Crane used their influence at Court and with the merchant guilds to cut the Crab's supply lines, forcing their retreat. To maintain the moral high ground, the Crane ordered the Yasuki family, then Crane, to cease their illegal activities in which they had been involved. They protested, claiming that they needed to have an eye on such a "dangerous" sector of the economy, but the Crane daimyo was having none of it. And so, the Yasuki went to the Crab, who were only too happy to have their supply lines restored. Eventually the Emperor stepped in and commanded both Clans to stop loving around, and the Yasuki formally joined the Crab. The Crane, unwilling to forgive the traitors, started a shadow war against the wayward family, shutting them out of markets and propping up competitors. The Yasuki countered with ronin muscle and mysterious accidents on Crane holdings. From this covert war, the enigmatic cult known as the Kolat would be born... and that's all we get about them this book.


Jesus, this art

The Lion and Crab would seem to be natural antagonists as the two most militant Clans, but while relations can be testy they have mutual enemies in the Crane and Scorpion and respect each other's strength. The closest they came to all-out war was when Matsu Itagi, Lion daimyo and great hero, got it into his head that he was the one to finally shut down Fu Leng's Festering Pit. The Emperor gave his consent (knowing he could not stop such a proud samurai from going off to his doom) and many people volunteered to join him (knowing he would refuse). He reached the Crab lands, where the daimyo Hida Tadaka said what no one else dared to: Itagi was a fool and going off to die. Finally he let him go to the Shadowlands, but offered no further help. Weeks passed, Itagi's supplies had to had run out by then, and eventually Itagi's sister came at the head of a great Lion army demanding to see her brother. Tadaka set off on a mission to find him before the Lion went off on his Clan, and after a long journey he found a badly wounded Itagi, slowly realizing the impossibility of his quest. Tadaka stood along with the Lion and they fought the monsters that came to finish off the wounded Champion, and both heroes returned to civilization only to die shortly after - but they were not defeated. Buried with full honors in Otosan Uchi, their example has prevented hostilities between their Clans for six centuries.

When Iuchiban rose and was put down by the might of the Clans, it was Kaiu Gineza who built and designed his tomb and sealed himself in it to prevent the mad sorcerer from escaping. But unfortunately, Iuchiban slipped away a century and a half later, only to be captured once more by the combined strength of the Clans. The Kuni in particular were the most worried about his rise, because the Crab could not be hoped to both fend off the Shadowlands and seek threats to the Empire from within. Iuchiban also was rumored to have based his magics on Kuni teachings, so it was somewhat personal for them. They decided to separate some of their own from their shugenja training and seek out evil in the Empire, selected for their hardiness, combat skills and knowledge of the Shadowlands. The Kuni Witch Hunters soon developed skills of their own and are now an autonomous brotherhood only loosely affiliated with the main family, fighting ceaselessly against night horrors and Bloodspeakers.


N O P E

In the year 716, almost all was lost. An oni known as The Maw gathered the largest Shadowlands army ever known and rampaged against the Crab lands, corrupting and destroying everything in its path. Secret blood magics destroyed the Hiruma castle, the central point of the Crab defenses, and the Shadowlands army easily brought low what remained standing. Next was the Kuni castle, which had been vacated along with its precious repositories of magical knowledge, but it too fell to the horde. All that was left was the Hida fortress, and the Maw was about to cross the Saigo river and cut it off from assistance. A young shugenja named Kuni Osaku asked how long it would take to erect suitable defenses: sixty days or so. She would buy these days by enacting a mighty spell that turned the waters of the Saigo into an impassable torrent, but the energies were such that she aged a year each day. The entire Clan, all the samurai and heimin, even all the hinin that could be found worked feverishly to build the new defenses while Osaku aged visibly with each day and the Maw waited patiently for her to fall. Seventy three days later, she died with honor, and the Maw's forces faced a mighty wall that they could not pass - and from hidden tunnels, the Crab army pinned the monsters between them and the Kaiu Wall. The purified skull of the Maw now adorns the Hida castle's gates, and Kuni Osaku is one of the Empire's most revered heroes. The Kuni lands were retaken at a great cost: the land is now a spiritual wasteland as well as physical. Their school was never rebuilt, and instead shugenja huts dot the landscape and the Kuni rarely meet in great numbers. The Crab later demanded of their neighbors lands to make up for what they had lost, which some granted or were cowed into giving, and others fought for.

After the tumultuous return of the Unicorn, the Crab welcomed them with other arms. Even though their first encounter had been hostile, the Unicorn had not shied away from taking on the Crab, yet they did not extend the conflict uselessly. They had journeyed through the Shadowlands for a long time and risked everything to return home, and like the Crab they were outsiders to the Empire that could use assistance and could repay it in kind. Their alliance is firm, and the Hiruma have reestablished their school as a branch of the Moto, while Yasuki and Ide diplomats use each other as go-betweens where they are not welcome in person, and the Crab military accepts Unicorn cavalry more readily than any other Clan.


"Oh no, darling, we're getting married, don't run away on me now~" "Doesn't mean I can't try!"

Next: various flavors of asskicking

senrath
Nov 3, 2009

Look Professor, a destruct switch!




Young Freud posted:

Yeah, longswords are a hell of a lot more versatile. Really, and it reminds me of some research I did in the matter, that katanas have more in common with cavalry sabers, given their length and slashing, than longswords, which are longer by almost a foot in most cases and, as seen in that second video, could be used for thrusting attacks, bludgeoning attacks with the pommel, and, since you were likely wearing gauntlets, being able to use the sword as a fulcrum in close combat.

You don't actually need to have gauntlets on to half-sword if you know what you're doing.

Crasical
Apr 22, 2014

GG!*
*GET GOOD


The irony of half-swording and European fighting styles being treated with the same awe and reverence that FOLDED 1,000 TIMES katana were fifteen years ago is not lost on me.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.




Grimey Drawer

I just think it's hilarious. For decades, nerds have asked 'Can I hit him with my pommel?' and other nerds have replied, 'You'll need the Pommel-Horseplay feat and a -10 to hit', and told each other how hard it is to wear plate armour, when the reality is vastly wackier.

taichara
May 9, 2013

c:\>erase c:\reality.sys copy a:\gigacity\*.* c:


Traveller posted:

It starts with a girl, Hida Yoritoko. But everyone knows her as Hida O-Ushi.

O-Ushi is great. She's my favorite Crab ever.

But she's also cursed with one of those names -- leave it to Wick and friends to take an actual arsekicking female character (in an edition that can sometimes be breathtakingly sexist, hey there Winter Court: Kyuden Seppun, I'd like to burn you) and basically name her "Great Cow".

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:


taichara posted:

O-Ushi is great. She's my favorite Crab ever.

But she's also cursed with one of those names -- leave it to Wick and friends to take an actual arsekicking female character (in an edition that can sometimes be breathtakingly sexist, hey there Winter Court: Kyuden Seppun, I'd like to burn you) and basically name her "Great Cow".

Is her official artwork just a giant pair of breasts?

taichara
May 9, 2013

c:\>erase c:\reality.sys copy a:\gigacity\*.* c:


Kurieg posted:

Is her official artwork just a giant pair of breasts?

It's gotten progressively more cheesecake as the years have gone on, certainly.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

Ask me about mapping out all the best limousine routes in Moscow for you and the little miss ;)

Lipstick Apathy

So System Mastery guys, when are you releasing :black101: Extreme Action RPG :black101: ?

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.



We're working on getting the dice gun past licensing. Turns out it's a choking hazard or some such. Stupid kids ruin everything fun.

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



Just make the disclaimer for the dangers of the gun part of your product's advertising music, set it to buttrock.

Comrade Gorbash
Jul 12, 2011

My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.


Crasical posted:

The irony of half-swording and European fighting styles being treated with the same awe and reverence that FOLDED 1,000 TIMES katana were fifteen years ago is not lost on me.
So much this, and it's pretty funny to watch it play out in thread.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




Crasical posted:

The irony of half-swording and European fighting styles being treated with the same awe and reverence that FOLDED 1,000 TIMES katana were fifteen years ago is not lost on me.
I just think the Mordhau/Mordschlag is hilarious.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.



Hostile V posted:

Just make the disclaimer for the dangers of the gun part of your product's advertising music, set it to buttrock.

Real talk: a little gun that used a spring to shoot dice that came with some soft bullseye targets that have like an orc or a tyranid on them would be rad as hell for open gaming night.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





theironjef posted:

Real talk: a little gun that used a spring to shoot dice that came with some soft bullseye targets that have like an orc or a tyranid on them would be rad as hell for open gaming night.

CRITICAL HIT

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


How about a dice grenade? You through it into the ring and watch the dice fly all over the place.

And while we're at Western weapon nerdgasming, just think about what kind of funky stuff you could do with a halberd that isn't made for formation combat (aka is only around as tall as you as opposed to 2-3 times as tall). These things are like swiss army knives. I want to see Jackie Chan use one of those.

wiegieman posted:

Yeah, those longswords weigh literally 10 times what an actual longsword weighed.

That's obviously because the inferior Western blacksmiths created shoddy lumbs of steel that could only be used by flailing them around like a savage. A proper katana on the other hand would just cut through sword and plate armor in one smooth iaijutsu stroke that would still leave the samura enough time to recite a haiku before his opponent notices that he's dead :colbert:

Zereth posted:

I just think the Mordhau/Mordschlag is hilarious.

There's gotta be some 3.X supplement featuring the Inverted Double-Bladed Sword with pommels on both ends.

Doresh fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Aug 23, 2016

Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos


Doresh posted:

While we're at Western weapon nerdgasming, just think about what kind of funky stuff you could do with a halberd that isn't made for formation combat (aka is only around as tall as you as opposed to 2-3 times as tall). These things are like swiss army knives.

It's called a pollaxe. Haft 4-6 feet long, topped with a head that was an axe on one side and a hammer or spike on the other, plus a spike (often bladed) on the butt of the weapon. The axe head is smaller than the halberd's for superior armour-crunching power. You fight with it using some mad cross between axe and quarterstaff techniques.

It's a pretty good option.

Edit: (Art showing techniques from Le Jeu de la Hache, written early 15th century; art is from later)

Prism fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Aug 23, 2016

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion




Much like actual armies in other parts of the world, western forces used polearms to fight a field battle, not swords. Most surviving manuals on combat spend a lot of time telling the reader to go buy a glaive and use that. The sword was light and versatile weapon you could carry all the time.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



There's no one "Best sword" - which is imho the biggest gripe against Katana-nerds. The Katana is an amazing weapon created for an environment with very low and poor source of iron, and the sheer dedication to the craft, but it's not inherently superior to the Scimitar, the Longsword, Claymore, or Falchion.

They're all great swords made for their specific use and place/time.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Prism posted:

It's called a pollaxe. Haft 4-6 feet long, topped with a head that was an axe on one side and a hammer or spike on the other, plus a spike (often bladed) on the butt of the weapon. The axe head is smaller than the halberd's for superior armour-crunching power. You fight with it using some mad cross between axe and quarterstaff techniques.

It's a pretty good option.

We need some crazy, hyper-charged knight wuxia flicks.

Robindaybird posted:

There's no one "Best sword" - which is imho the biggest gripe against Katana-nerds. The Katana is an amazing weapon created for an environment with very low and poor source of iron, and the sheer dedication to the craft, but it's not inherently superior to the Scimitar, the Longsword, Claymore, or Falchion.

They're all great swords made for their specific use and place/time.

Even the longsword can come in slight but notable variations, like stab-friendlier ones whose blade is more or less a very elongated triangle.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Doresh posted:

Even the longsword can come in slight but notable variations, like stab-friendlier ones whose blade is more or less a very elongated triangle.

Besides, halberds were where it was really at.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:


I still love the No-Dachi, which was apparently designed to dehorse a rider by cutting their horse in half.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Cythereal posted:

Besides, halberds were where it was really at.

Of course. You have more reach and probably don't even have to pay for half as much steel.

hectorgrey
Oct 14, 2011


wiegieman posted:

Much like actual armies in other parts of the world, western forces used polearms to fight a field battle, not swords. Most surviving manuals on combat spend a lot of time telling the reader to go buy a glaive and use that. The sword was light and versatile weapon you could carry all the time.

Well, swords were used in battle; just not as a primary weapon. Soldiers were (up until around 18th century, I believe) armed with whatever they had the money for, and second hand arming swords and backswords were usually fairly cheap and relatively light, so they made for good backup weapons should anything happen to the main one.

But yeah; sword's stopped being a primary battlefield weapon around time shields stopped being a useful thing to carry onto a battlefield, which would presumably be around the same time that decent body armour became a realistic option for the average soldier.

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.





CHARACTER BUILD EXAMPLES

I won't be including the things the characters already get for free.

Ai-Jinn Stealth Specialist:

Caleb's idea is an Ai-Jinn Agent who infiltrates and has stylized himself to fight and appear like the Chinese hopping vampire.

HP: 34

Agility: 8
Endurance: 6
Intelligence: 6
Perception: 6
Presence: 7
Reflexes: 8
Strength: 8

Languages: Mandarin, Cantonese, Thai, Japanese.

Stealth: 8 (Pro Skill)
Athletics: 7
Close Combat: 6
Crime: 5
Light Firearms: 5
Attitude: 5
Corporate Knowledge: 4
Cybernetics: 4
Observation: 4
Street Culture: 3
Support Weapons: 3
Tactical Firearms: 3
Assess Tech: 2
Arts/Culture: 2
Looking Good: 2
Drive: 1
Lying: 1
Heavy Firearms: 1
Medicine: 1
Computers: 1

Trainings: Assassination, Underground Operations

Licenses: Security License, Powered Melee License, Vehicle License, Domestic License, Detainment License

Gear: Injector pistol, tiger claws, knockout grenade, customized reinforced clothing, field shield, lockpicks, stealth suit, suppressant gel, more handcuffs.

Western Federation Celebrity Agent

My friend Peter came up with a WesFed Agent who has a good public presence as an actor and celebrity on the missions that get turned into entertainment.

HP: 30

Agility: 9
Endurance: 5
Intelligence: 6
Perception: 8
Presence: 10
Reflexes: 6
Strength: 5

Languages: English, Spanish, Military Sign, Mandarin.

Lying/Acting: 8 (Pro Skill)
Looking Good: 7
Crime: 6
Drive: 5
Heavy Firearms: 5
Light Firearms: 5
Observation: 4
Stealth: 4
Tactical Firearms: 4
Street Culture: 3
Support Weapons: 3
Psychology: 3
Science: 2
Business: 2
Assess Tech: 2
Corporate Knowledge: 1
Computers and AI: 1
Close Combat: 1
Arts and Culture: 1

Training: Command, Interrogation.

Licenses: Detainment, World Database License, Search License (Domestic), Preacher's License.

Gear: Light combat armor, insulated shield, save the rest.

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My character, a gear-head who runs around with melee weapons and drives gaudy vehicles for the team's transportation.

HP: 34

Agility: 7
Endurance: 7
Intelligence: 9
Perception: 7
Presence: 5
Reflexes: 7
Strength: 7

Languages: Japanese, Mandarin, Russian.

Drive: 8
Mechtronics: 7 (Pro Skill)
Close Combat: 6
Light Firearms: 5
Cybernetics: 5
Medicine: 5
Athletics: 4
Tactical Firearms: 4
Assess Tech: 4
Crime: 3
Computers and AI: 3
Street Culture: 3
Support Weapons: 2
Heavy Firearms: 2
Pilot: 2
Corporate Knowledge: 1
Looking Good: 1
Stealth: 1

Trainings: Combat Driver, Jury-Rigging.

Licenses: Vehicle License (Domestic), Vehicle License (Military), Robotics License, Tactical Firearms License, Bounty Hunter's License.

Equipment: Machine pistol, combat chainsaw, stun pistol, light combat armor, heavy field shield, toolkit (advanced mechtronics), two cutting torches.

NEXT TIME: Chapter Two, the equipment chapter.

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Comrade Gorbash
Jul 12, 2011

My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.


I love pole-axes if only because once you see one, you get a whole new appreciation for the secondary definition of an expression of shock.

Robindaybird posted:

There's no one "Best sword" - which is imho the biggest gripe against Katana-nerds. The Katana is an amazing weapon created for an environment with very low and poor source of iron, and the sheer dedication to the craft, but it's not inherently superior to the Scimitar, the Longsword, Claymore, or Falchion.

They're all great swords made for their specific use and place/time.
This is sort of true, but its kind of a cop out. Sword technology does advance over time. Sometimes its because other factors change - you start to see a lot of big two-handed swords when pikes come into vogue.

But sometimes people just figure out a better way to do things. I'd much rather had an arming sword than a spatha, for example. And earlier the Romans themselves (and probably the Carthaginians as well) put aside their indigenous designs to adopt the short swords they found in Iberia (Spain), which were just better at doing what the Romans were already doing with their blades.

hectorgrey posted:

Well, swords were used in battle; just not as a primary weapon. Soldiers were (up until around 18th century, I believe) armed with whatever they had the money for, and second hand arming swords and backswords were usually fairly cheap and relatively light, so they made for good backup weapons should anything happen to the main one.

But yeah; sword's stopped being a primary battlefield weapon around time shields stopped being a useful thing to carry onto a battlefield, which would presumably be around the same time that decent body armour became a realistic option for the average soldier.
Not really. Heavy armor never really became realistic for the average soldier, and the shield was still common right up to (and in some cases beyond) the invention of firearms.

It was the firearm, and particularly the musket, that put paid to swords as a primary arm. There were infantry who relied on the sword all the way up to the point that firearms drove all purely hand-to-hand weapons into secondary roles. But they tended to be specialists - either a counter to a specific opponent, or part of a warrior class (knights and samurai and so forth). The spear dominated the battlefield in the sense that far more combatants used them than they did swords.

The one major exception was the Roman system of the Republic and the principate. Roman armies relied on the sword as the killing weapon in a way pretty much no other military force did before or since.

Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Aug 23, 2016

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