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unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

My only problem with Huntsmen in 2E Changeling as presented is that we're losing Bridge Burners for them and they were my favorite antagonist faction for no good reason.

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Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Warhams Fantasy: Night's Dark Masters

It's time to get Castlevania in here.

"To the people of the Old World, vampires are two things: Terrifying monsters from the darkest of nightmares, and everything they've ever wanted to be."

That opening quote sets the tone for Warhams Vamps very well, and serves as a great intro for the big book of bloodsucking abominations. Vampires are a grave threat to the nations of the Old World, superhuman monsters that can live for thousands of years and who can call up armies of the damned and undead more easily than any mortal necromancer. At the same time, many of them are very capable of pretending to be human and hiding themselves among their prey, and very few have any real qualms about the fact that they eat people. Moreover, they tend to be passionate creatures of obsession and ambition; almost every vampire has some insane plan, ideal, or objective and none of them would ever admit to being incapable of bringing about what they want. If I had to define them, every single vampire in the Old World believes he or she is the main character. Every single one. The book introduces them as such: The big pitch for vampires compared to the other foes of the Old World is that each and every one is an individual, a foe players will need to research, get to know, and then hunt down and kill. As strong as they are, they are still cursed, and each is vulnerable to the strangest things. Some are burned by the touch of silver, some cannot abide a stake through the heart, some will melt if tossed into running water, and it's up to the players to figure out which is which and apply the solution before The Count is upon them. At the same time, the creatures are almost immune to the touch of Chaos and hate it nearly as much as humans do; vampires want to rule the world and make cattle and sheep of its people, not destroy it in some wasteful tentacle-and-axe orgy like Chaos. It is not entirely uncommon for humans and undead to find common cause in stomping on tentacled horrors from beyond before returning to their eternal game of cat and mouse.

As this is our first splatbook, it will also serve as a good example of how they are constructed. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay generally uses the same rules for PCs and adversaries, and while this book will swear up and down that it isn't intended for PC Vampires it not only provides everything necessary to play as them, it also includes a (small, admittedly) section advising on how to write and construct a campaign for a coterie of bloodsucking horrors. Every single 'adversary' book in the line will include enough rules to construct a campaign for the faction it deals with, as well as plenty of rules for more conventional player characters who will oppose those monsters. This is even true for the Skaven; you have no idea how excited I am to eventually get to Children of the Horned Rat, as PC Skaven are basically Paranoia But With Ratmen.The books are always constructed to start with fluff, and based on the Old World Bestiary (which I have no idea how to review, but it's a fantastic bestiary) they will often go from the view of the common people, to the view of more educated experts, and then the view from the subject of the book itself. Night's Dark Masters is no exception, though it waits until a later section to let the vampires describe themselves.

"Yes, they drink blood. Yes, they've been known to raise armies of the damned. But at least they're not elves!"

The common folk don't know much about vampirism. They know there are insane foreign counts that live out in Sylvania in the East, they know that occasionally swarms of the dead come out of the East to raid Stirland and Wissenland, they know the Ostermarkers have a bunch of very serious men and women in long coats and hats who go around festooned with stakes and garlic all the time in case of vampires, and they know the creatures like blood and hate the sun. That's about it. Common folk in the Empire tend to either think that vampires are a rare problem that won't be found in their province, or they think the drat things are around every corner and in every shadow (in the case of certain maniacal agitators or paranoids).

Scholarly work on vampires is difficult to find. Being ruled a serious temptation to men and women of good character, information on necromancy and vampirism is suppressed or limited to licensed officials and authorities like the Black Guard of Morr, the holy knights who guard graveyards and tombs. The best information on them includes the books of Fredrich van Hel, and those are locked away in a great vault under the Temple of Sigmar and require direct dispensation from the Grand Theoganist to study. Matters are also confused by popular first-hand accounts of vampires that are almost certainly intentionally spread as propaganda, such as the operas of Dietlef Sierck, which make his vampiric love Genevieve out to be a noble and kind-hearted heroine. Scholars do agree that the vampires can be divided into general blood-lines, groups that share common traits (if not goals) and whose abilities and weaknesses can be generalized. Witch Hunters and licensed Vampire Hunters will know more, but their knowledge tends to be on a more practical level, leading to a confused picture of the weaknesses and powers of these lethal creatures. Hunters usually err on the side of caution as a result, preferring to overprepare or use too much force when confronting their prey rather than risk missing the beast. "Cut off its head, burn the body, douse the flames in holy water, and spread the ashes to the four corners of the province. Kills them nine out of ten times," as they say.

Lands other than the Empire have also struggled with the scourge of vampires. Bretonnia has the damned province of Mousillon, ruled by the terrifying Red Duke, a black knight who calls to his side plenty of vampiric knight errants in his eternal war with the nobility and knighthoods of the land. Bretonnia, by considering these vampiric knights to be worthy adversaries for chivalrous warriors, has inadvertently made sure its roads will remain haunted by gaunt, black-armored figures challenging travelers and seeking to practice the way of the sword for decades. Estalia (spain) despises all of vampire-kind and the Churches of Myrmidia and Morr have full public sanction to hunt the unholy things throughout the land. Tilea (italy) has been seemingly free of vampiric infestation, possibly for the same reason, possibly because the byzantine politics in the city states make it easy for a lower key vampire to hide among the aristocratic knife-fights and mercantile squabbles. Kislev was once taken over by a vampiric tsarina; the people were used to aloof women with strange magic as tsarinas from the order of the Ice Witches, and it was only when the Boyars realized her immortality meant none of their families would ever be Tsar that they bothered with overthrowing her.

Other races lack the same kind of intimate relationship with vampires humans have. No other race can be turned, or rather there is no record of a member of another race being turned; all vampires were once humans. Elves see this as evidence of the corruptible and imperfect nature of humankind, a sort of madness brought on by their shorter life-spans. Similarly, vampires quite like elves; all the magic in their blood makes it taste like a fine, rich dessert. Not something you'd want every day, but a fine treat. Dwarves, by contrast, are flat and tasteless, like beer that's gone off, and so the vampires mostly leave them alone. The dwarves don't especially care for pale, murderous manlings who threaten their allies, though, and so sometimes the bloodsuckers don't get much of a choice in dealing with the stout folk of the grey mountains. Dwarves also have an extensive section in the Book of Grudges (where they record every slight they need to avenge) against one specific vampiric line, the Lahmians, for having taken one of their mountain holds to serve as their refuge. Halflings are even more tasteless than the dwarves, and so despite the fact that Sylvania borders the Moot, the vampires have never really bothered the sunny and obnoxious land. The halflings are not only protected by their ill-tasting blood and sunny, pleasant weather, but any vampire who bothered trying to conquer them would face the mockery of their peers for undertaking such a petty endeavor. The strangest relationship, though, is between Vampires and Chaos. Chaos demands change, or so it says, and vampires are creatures of stasis. Chaos's champions wish to transcend the world as Demons, while vampires seek to remain in a physical existence forever. More worryingly to Chaos, a vampire's soul can never rest and thus is denied to the Realm of Chaos or Morr's Realm, so Chaos can gain nothing from them. Khorne angrily declares blood is for the blood god, not for drinking. Nurgle despises their unchanging, undecaying nature and how they have removed themselves from the cycle of rot and new life. Tzeentch sees their immortality and stasis as purest blasphemy. Slaanesh hates how vampires tend to fall into something they like and stick to it. And in return, the vampires have little use for the petty gods of darkness (and are also bothered that the Unholy Symbols of Chaos have exactly the same effect on them as holy symbols; a Nurglite brandishing his sigil and declaring that Father Nurgle Compels You can drive a vampire back just as well as symbols of Morr or Sigmar!) and don't like the thought of sharing their flock of human sheep with murderous idiots from the north. Thus, despite both being a grave threat to humankind, vampires and Chaos hate each other, and in almost any conflict between humans and Chaos, vampires will secretly or not so secretly tend to favor the human side.

Next: Serious Men And Women In Big Hats And Long Coats: The Hunters.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Aug 4, 2017

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

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My favorite vamps in the Warhammer are the Blood Dragons, comma, the vampires who are a mix of Wham and the two vampire knights from Jojo Part 1.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Mors Rattus posted:

My favorite vamps in the Warhammer are the Blood Dragons, comma, the vampires who are a mix of Wham and the two vampire knights from Jojo Part 1.

Blood Dragons are without a doubt the easiest kind of vamp to write as either a sympathetic monster, an anti-hero (I mean hey, Chaos Demons and Warriors and Other Vampires are worthy opponents, right?), or a wandering murderhobo and thus the easiest to have as PCs.

Also, yes, they have the most direct parallels in JoJo, though the Carsteins can get pretty Phantom Blood Dio.

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

Horned Rat-Sempai Noticed Me!


Surprised that WHFB gives so much support for playing non-humans.

My one encounter with GW's nonsense was attending a Gamesday and asking a rep at the FFG booth if they would come out with a line for playing Orks, and the rep said something along the line of "You have everything you need in Enter the Storm! " Which...no, that book had the option of playing an Ork that's joined a Rogue Trader's group. I wanted a system that was built around forming a Warband, kit-bashing vehicles and gunz together, and launching a WAAAAGH! against the Imperium. I mean such a campaign is in theory doable with Rogue Trader, but it'd require a lot of house rules and/or handwaving.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


They're 100% down with you playing Vampires (though they advise, rightly, against mixing them with human PCs in a normal party, due to power disparity) with some caveats about how crazy powerful guys intended to be campaign arc end-bosses can get, Skaven, and Chaos, but I haven't seen rules for playing Orcs or Gobbos, sadly.

Could be pretty easily hacked together, though. The nice part is the same rules for constructing PCs of those factions are just as useful for making recurring bad guys.

RocknRollaAyatollah
Nov 26, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

SirPhoebos posted:

Surprised that WHFB gives so much support for playing non-humans.

My one encounter with GW's nonsense was attending a Gamesday and asking a rep at the FFG booth if they would come out with a line for playing Orks, and the rep said something along the line of "You have everything you need in Enter the Storm! " Which...no, that book had the option of playing an Ork that's joined a Rogue Trader's group. I wanted a system that was built around forming a Warband, kit-bashing vehicles and gunz together, and launching a WAAAAGH! against the Imperium. I mean such a campaign is in theory doable with Rogue Trader, but it'd require a lot of house rules and/or handwaving.

WHFRP 2E was given a much freer reign because GW had a different philosophy back then, 2005-2009, and didn't care as much about their IP's. Management changes and paranoia have changed that. FFG was given much less of a free reign, especially in the area of 40K.

EDIT: It's very obvious that the current staff at GW don't care about fantasy and that's one of the reasons why they just blew it up and replaced it with Age of Sigmar. I would imagine that sentiment was there for a while, just not as overt, which probably impacted what was allowed and not allowed.

RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Dec 29, 2016

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


FFG has horror stories, apparently, about actually writing the space marine RPG because GW protects those like a pissed off mother hen.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Forget Orks, I want to play Lizardmen.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Cythereal posted:

Forget Orks, I want to play Lizardmen.

Here, I will present to you a concise adventurer's guide to Lustria:

"There is a plant here that eats human souls. Don't loving go to Lustria."

Fin.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Night10194 posted:

Here, I will present to you a concise adventurer's guide to Lustria:

"There is a plant here that eats human souls. Don't loving go to Lustria."

Fin.

The most powerful spellcaster on the planet is a dead frog. No, he's not undead, his corpse isn't moving. But he's still got poo poo to do so the Temple Guard haul his corpse around anyway.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Lizardmen decided continental drift was against their religion and accidentally screwed everyone over once.

Lustria's a weird place. And to the north of it is torture elf gothic canada. There's nothing safe across that ocean.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Night10194 posted:

Lizardmen decided continental drift was against their religion and accidentally screwed everyone over once.

Really just the dwarves. The lizardmen found a tablet showing where the continents were supposed to be, and the main continent of the setting was out of position. So they moved it.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


The reason there's no Lustria book is that the Lizardmen are mostly, by design, irrelevant to the Old World. Their goal is to sit in their temples and do their thing where they try to follow tablets they don't understand to do stuff they don't understand.

Similar reason there's no book for Ulthuan. High Elves don't really do 'doing stuff' or 'accomplishing things' outside of their forever war with canada.

Sadly this also means no Khemri book which sucks because Khemri is incredibly awesome. We'll at least be getting into Khemri some by proxy through the vamps.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



One of the big things of Lustria, though, is that gold-hungry adventurers from the Old World keep going there to steal poo poo because Lizardmen cities are literally paved with gold. Better than ninety percent of such adventurers die or worse, but hey if you pull it off you'll be filthy stinking rich.

And yes, Khemri are also great.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Well, in fairness, the frogs understand basically the goal of the project. Just, you know, their divine masters didn't confide in them completely.

The lizardmen also are fighting a holding action against Chaos, the Skaven and, as I recall, several undead forces simultaneously.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Mors Rattus posted:

Well, in fairness, the frogs understand basically the goal of the project. Just, you know, their divine masters didn't confide in them completely.

The lizardmen also are fighting a holding action against Chaos, the Skaven and, as I recall, several undead forces simultaneously.

And the Canadian murder-elves.

Lizardmen are really neat and I get why they're in the setting (they'll also pay human mercs with worthless (to them) gold to help them fight sometimes) but I can see why the RPG doesn't have a Khemri or Lustria book. I'm sure they're under 'We would've liked to but 3e got made before we had time and retconned out the Storm of Chaos and all our stuff'.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Night10194 posted:

And the Canadian murder-elves.

One of the few funny things from Age of Sigmar is that the Lizardmen have been murdering the Skaven for so long and so effectively, and Sotek was doing the same thing to the Horned Rat in the Warp, that the Sigmar-Skaven freak the gently caress out whenever they encounter the Sigmar-Lizardmen, overwhelmed with psychic visions of the countless billions of Skaven that the Lizardmen have slaughtered.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



IIRC, they actually pay in (equally valuable to humans) pearls because gold has religious significance to them, this being the actual point of contention with their original human contacts - they'd hand over pearls without even thinking about it because pearls were worthless byproducts of food, but gold was significant.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Mors Rattus posted:

IIRC, they actually pay in (equally valuable to humans) pearls because gold has religious significance to them, this being the actual point of contention with their original human contacts - they'd hand over pearls without even thinking about it because pearls were worthless byproducts of food, but gold was significant.

Gold doesn't have religious significance to the Lizardmen, they value it for its metallurgical properties - doesn't rust, a great conductor of electricity, and very soft so it's easy to engrave.

This also tends to mean that the gold adventurers steal from the Lizardmen is covered in glyphs and inscriptions, and stealing that is what really pisses them off.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Vampire: the Requiem, 2nd Edition

The city of Athens has existed for a very, very long time. It is proud of its heritage and deeply scarred by war and a very deep gap between rich and poor. The vampires that live there are, officially, an independent and democractic parliament that is open to a diversity of stances and political views from any recognized citizen of the city. In practice, the place is a madhouse of influences, Byzantine dealing and vicious infighting. Greece itself largely falls out of modern history books after Rome invades, and that kind of stings, but modern vampiric history for the city is not old at all. Sixty years ago, the Invictus Prince Kallikrates Makridis invested heavily in certain mortal interests, lost big and was staked and left out for the Carthians, to distract them. It failed. His childer and the Invictus in general were hunted down, and those that were not killed quickly changed sides. The Carthians quickly took over, their groups swelling massively in post-war Greece. Briefly, they were held together by idealism and the wish for a unified Athens.

That didn't last long. Within a generation, the mortal Greeks were still rioting and raging against their economic conditions. The Carthians, meanwhile, had been utterly overwhelmed by their sudden growth and began fracturing pretty much immediately. Their loose coalition of rebels had been tabling some conflicts with themselves for centuries, and now had nothing better to do. It didn't help that none of them agreed on how to help revitalize the Athenian economy or how to re-establish a Greek cultural identity for the vampires, free of both the influence of the Roman Camarilla or the Turks that followed or the Europeans who'd pillaged the nation. First, the group called 17N split off, taking the communists, anarchists and angry revolutionaries. Then came Alecto, who took most of the ex-Invictus with them in a bid to punish the world for its actions against Greece. Those that remained became the Ypochreosi, after their leader, who managed to beat a kind of unity out of the chaos and maintain the theortical goal of a unified and working Athens. The Circle of the Crone, meanwhile, has managed because they were always present but never large. Small cults here and there, always on the edges. They'd stay that way, but these days, they are receiving messages from Ekhidna, or so they claim. Strange dreams that whisper through the Cruac they learn, which have been urging them to spill blood and bring forth a purer, better vampire in the streets of Athens.

Clan Daeva was hit hardest when the Carthians of Athens fractured, as most of the clan was Carthian. Now, they have turned on each other viciously. As the Ventrue have fallen from favor, the Daeva are disproportionately powerful in Athenian politics - but if their infighting continues, that may not last. The Gangrel, well, they used to be very tight-knit families of vampires. However, they are running out of resources, and as a result, those families are strating to fracture. They, too, may soon break out in civil war. The Mekhet...well, historically they have never been liked in Athens. They are not permitted to hold citizenship. And yet, they are prospering. Unlike many of the others, they aren't infighting at all, just watching, nudging things when they must, and waiting. They are present in nearly every aspect of Athenian vampiric life, unnoticed but slowly becoming indispensable. The Nosferatu, on the other hand, have been deeply respected in Athens as bearers of tradition and civic service. They are unusually welcome in Athenian vampire society and more than any other clan, they want to preserve it. The Ypochreosi have many Nosferatu, often idealistic and violent ones. The Ventrue have fallen, as they were the clan of the last Invictus Prince. Their reputation went down with him, and the Ventrue have had to adapt and survive, becoming errand runners and killers for hire. They're trying to get back to the top, and hey, mercenary work is a good way to do it.

The Kataramenon is a uniquely Athenian covenant. They are the Church in Exile, claiming first to have been cursed by Apollo, then by God, to be demons haunting the lives of the favored children. While teychnically separate from the parliament, they are the keepers of Greece's oldest faith in the Apollonian and Byzantine traditions. They are oracles, plaguebearers, confessors and revolutionaries. They are always near political power but never quite ready to take the responsibility. Today, their main job is trying to get everyone else to push their aggression outwards, not at each other. Ypochreosi is one of the covenants born from the Carthian collapse. Their sole goal is a functioning, thriving Athens. They run detention camps and festivals and assassinations as needed, trying to keep the city working without having to give up too much of their own power or pleasure. Alecto is another of the fragment covenants. They look to the past, striving to take on the cultural legacy of the ancient Greeks and emulate the successful leaders of Greek society. They believe that tyranny is the only method that works in Greece, and just need people willing to fight off the outsider Europeans and police the citizens against the problems born of foreign rule. 17N, meanwhile, are anarcho-communist vampires. They hate the nostalgic fascists of Alecto and the brutal moderates of Ypochreosi, and they want to burn the whole thing down and start over - a revolution to a revolution.

The Circle of the Crone have been around forever, in the cthonic cults and strange priesthoods of Greece. Most of them are female, by tradition, and they are making ready to rise up and fight thanks to the dreams of Ekhidna. The Lancea et Sanctum came from Tarsus around a decade ago to help 'reintegate' the city. Their envoy was welcomed warmly and has been a guest of state since. No other envoys have been requested - or allowed to enter Athens. The Ordo Dracul has a few boltholes in the city, but for the most part they prefer and are more welcome in the Turkish and Arabic cities to the south, and find them a better atmosphere for transcendence.

From Athens, we head east to the city of Beijing. Until 1958, vampires were spread widely and quietly through eastern China. They swore loyalty to a Ventrue Empire in Beijing, an Empire that rivalled the Camarilla in size. And, like the Camarilla, it fell. In 1958, Mao ordered the Chinese to destroy the 'Four Pests' in the name of hygeiene - particularly sparrows. Li Songlian, the leader of the Henan vampires and administrator of vampiric city in the city of Xinyiang decided to join, despite her sire's disapproval, though for her own reasons. Specifically, she believed that the sparrows were the form of the strix and wanted revenge for the death of her lover. Soon after the killing of the birds, tales of locusts ruining crops began, as no birds were around to eat them. By 1960, the Masquerade began to thin, as the blood supply began to dwindle. Some of the village elders under Li Songlian's command began to hide their herds, and some of the humans even began to turn to cannibalism. She feared diablerie was next and asked for Beijing aid. It never came. The King of Beijing, Zhao Xiangjun, didn't care. His district was fine.

Mao sent soldiers to Henan after hearing the reports of cannibalism. Many humans died in the beatings and raids that followed. All but 47 vampires were captured and bound, and 30 more died by sunlight. The survivors made their way to Beijing, picking up a few more vampires on the way. They'd heard food was there. When they finally arrived, they were not allowed in. No one remembers the war in the same way. Some say there was a siege, some spies, some that the invaders used the power of the Beast to unseat the Emperor. Only one thing stays the same: when Li Songlian's sire heard that the Empire had fallen and how many vampires died with it, he smiled, walked out into the sunlight and did not burn.

The Mekhet of Beijing now control the Bureau of Silence and Bureau of Childer because they are a close-knit family. They maintain their food supply and funding by selling information, safe passage, technology - anything at all, for the right price, except their own plans. The Ventrue, of course, have been there forever, and will tell you so. They will do anything they want...except rule the city. They've been putting in the work to gain influence in the new Beijing government, and are beginning to bend, even break the rules. That won't be going anywhere good. Gangrel, meanwile, are the liaisons with the outer villages and hate the city itself. Everyone taste bad, they're too polite and the Mekhet and Ventrue keep watching them. The Nosferatu, meanwhile, hide out in the pollution, with the beggars and abandoned construction. There aren't many Daeva in Beijing - they find life there too restrictive.

Two of the main covenants of Beijing are the Way of the Dragon and the Dragon's Path, both not members of the Ordo Dracul but influenced by their ideas. The Way of the Dragon hold that the best way is to listen to and align your will with the Beast's. The Dragon's Path, on the other hand, try to detach from the Beast's hunger, to not feed on humans for fear of strengthening the Beast and to avoid connection to other vampires. Both insist they have mastered a Mystery unknown to others but will not explain. Once a year, they send a few vampires to the mountains on pilgrimage. The Bureau of Childer is the covenant in charge of processing requests for new Embraces, which are rarely approved. The Mekhet control it almost entirely, and do not explain themselves. The Lancea et Sanctum are small, highly selective and only accept absolute loyalty. Many Ventrue want to join, but few others do. The Mekhet like it, though - it keeps the Ventrue content, though it has also meant the Lance's influence is growing. The Bureau of Silence is made of 50 Mekhet and 10 Ventrue. The only one publically known is the Premier, because the Bureau's job is to maintain the Masquerade by any means necessary. They are highly connected in the human government, but at any given moment, only 10 of the vampires have any power - and it's never the Ventrue.

You may have noticed that Beijing doesn't explain what the gently caress is going on with most of its stuff, and that Athens was very detail-light and didn't do a ton that was new besides the splinter Carthian factions. This part of the book? Not the best.

Next time: Berlin and Montreal

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Mors Rattus posted:

My favorite vamps in the Warhammer are the Blood Dragons, comma, the vampires who are a mix of Wham and the two vampire knights from Jojo Part 1.

I had some fun times reading the first army book that introduced the different clans.

"Let's see... stereotypical vampires (at least before GW made the Carsteins bald), Nosferatu, sexy vampires,... or the awesome vampires."

Night10194 posted:

They're 100% down with you playing Vampires (though they advise, rightly, against mixing them with human PCs in a normal party, due to power disparity) with some caveats about how crazy powerful guys intended to be campaign arc end-bosses can get, Skaven, and Chaos, but I haven't seen rules for playing Orcs or Gobbos, sadly.

Could be pretty easily hacked together, though. The nice part is the same rules for constructing PCs of those factions are just as useful for making recurring bad guys.

The way WHFRPG2e is set up, you can basically pick any statblock from the bestiary, give it a job and call it a day.

Meanwhile the 40k games where human-only (plus human mutants like Ogryns and Ratlings). Rules for playing as Tau in Rogue Trader was sadly just early edition weirdness.

(Man, I'd totally play a Tau version of Only War called "Greater Good")

Cythereal posted:

One of the few funny things from Age of Sigmar is that the Lizardmen have been murdering the Skaven for so long and so effectively, and Sotek was doing the same thing to the Horned Rat in the Warp, that the Sigmar-Skaven freak the gently caress out whenever they encounter the Sigmar-Lizardmen, overwhelmed with psychic visions of the countless billions of Skaven that the Lizardmen have slaughtered.

Skaven don't really strike me as the kind of race that would care-worry about how many of their kin you've slaughter-killed. Dead Skaven are loser-failures.

Doresh fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Dec 29, 2016

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
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It's more that the Lizardmen once literally summoned a god to eat an entire Skaven invasion force.

Sotek doesn't gently caress around.

Daeren
Aug 17, 2009

YER MUSTACHE IS CROOKED


Doresh posted:

Skaven don't really strike me as the kind of race that would care-worry about how many of their kin you've slaughter-killed. Dead Skaven are loser-failures.

Yeah, see, that holds up until a god regularly shows up and chows down on a couple hundred thousand of your race as an hors d'oeurve.

E:fb

LaSquida
Nov 1, 2012

Just keep on walkin'.


unseenlibrarian posted:

My only problem with Huntsmen in 2E Changeling as presented is that we're losing Bridge Burners for them and they were my favorite antagonist faction for no good reason.

Wait, really? Dang it. I was fond of 'em too.

Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos


Which one are Bridge Burners? I forgot.

Tasoth
Dec 12, 2011


Having started to read Goblin Quest, hacking that into Skaven Quest and getting your rat brethren murdered in goofy and hilarious ways seems fitting.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

NHP advocate.


Tasoth posted:

Having started to read Goblin Quest, hacking that into Skaven Quest and getting your rat brethren murdered in goofy and hilarious ways seems fitting.

Oh come now, we all know full well that the only way to really play Skaven is to play Paranoia.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Josef bugman posted:

Oh come now, we all know full well that the only way to really play Skaven is to play Paranoia.

I seem to remember a game in one of the previous threads where you're an orc warlord and your actions are measured in the number of goblins they cost to make. Skaven strike me as suitable for the same system: assassinate a rival? Twenty skaven. Forge a new warpstone sword? Fifteen skaven.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Doresh posted:

I had some fun times reading the first army book that introduced the different clans.

"Let's see... stereotypical vampires (at least before GW made the Carsteins bald), Nosferatu, sexy vampires,... or the awesome vampires."

Carsteins would contest this and say they are the awesome vampires.

And they were pretty great when they were an entire clan of Draculas, before GW gave them all dumb clam-shell armor, made them bald, and gave them all throat cancer. Thankfully, Night's Dark Masters Carsteins are still rockin' the capes and widows' peaks.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
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2014-2018



Night10194 posted:

Carsteins would contest this and say they are the awesome vampires.

And they were pretty great when they were an entire clan of Draculas, before GW gave them all dumb clam-shell armor, made them bald, and gave them all throat cancer. Thankfully, Night's Dark Masters Carsteins are still rockin' the capes and widows' peaks.

...wait, by the end the von Carsteins were vampire space marines?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Mors Rattus posted:

...wait, by the end the von Carsteins were vampire space marines?

GW made many, many wrong decisions.

We run it that Manfred's bald batman growl phase where he tried to show off his biceps was an embarrassing attempt to look tough that he wishes people would stop bringing up.

Moonwolf
Jun 29, 2004

Flee from th' terrifyin' evil of "NHS"!




Mors Rattus posted:

...wait, by the end the von Carsteins were vampire space marines?

Mephiston had a cape with the absurd collar and a widows peak though.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

NHP advocate.


Manfreds entire thing is both "I have read this many books and know how an evil overlord should act at all times" and "I am a terrified undead baby man". He's unable to take risks at all and so continually fucks everything up for himself. It's glorious.

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

Prism posted:

Which one are Bridge Burners? I forgot.

Bridge Burners are Changelings with the almost perfectly reasonable and sensible position that given that other than escapees, everything else that comes out of the hedge is terrible and a potential open door to the true fae, so why not burn down every possible connection to loving elfland and destroy it to keep more Lost from getting made.

It's just that Changeling magic, safe places, economy, and just about everything else requires hedge access and also you know, people still escape and hammering the doors shut would trap the future escapees with their keepers forever.

But you can -almost- see their point.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



unseenlibrarian posted:

Bridge Burners are Changelings with the almost perfectly reasonable and sensible position that given that other than escapees, everything else that comes out of the hedge is terrible and a potential open door to the true fae, so why not burn down every possible connection to loving elfland and destroy it to keep more Lost from getting made.

It's just that Changeling magic, safe places, economy, and just about everything else requires hedge access and also you know, people still escape and hammering the doors shut would trap the future escapees with their keepers forever.

But you can -almost- see their point.

My Hunter game had Task Force Valkyrie working with the Bridge Burners.

I never found Changelings to be good guys or worth protecting. Sympathetic, sure, but changelings are deeply and profoundly hosed up and leave a trail of broken people wherever they go.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!


"... deeply and profoundly hosed up and leave a trail of broken people..." is a phrase that could be used for just about every nWoD splat, hunters included.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Changelings are abuse survivors. Of course they have a rough time.

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

The Bridge Burner's plan would give Changelings no choice but to use humans to recover glamour, since burning down all entrances to the hedge means they can't recover it via goblin fruit, so, uh...counterproductive on TFV's part, I think.

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Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



unseenlibrarian posted:

The Bridge Burner's plan would give Changelings no choice but to use humans to recover glamour, since burning down all entrances to the hedge means they can't recover it via goblin fruit, so, uh...counterproductive on TFV's part, I think.

In my campaign, TFV took the stance that the problems arising from non-humans trying to fit into human society aren't human law enforcement's problem. TFV's job is to protect people, and if that makes things inconvenient or difficult for non-humans that's their problem.

Not that any Changeling ever tried to explain glamour and goblin fruit and all that to TFV. Again, TFV's stance: if you want TFV to stop blowing up your secret magic bullshit, here's their card so you can explain to the TFV's leadership why blowing up your secret magic bullshit is a bad idea.

For some reason, hardly any supernaturals ever take them up on the offer...


It was a running theme in that game that supernaturals never gave TFV any respect, ever, and that doing so caused the supernatural world an awful lot of trouble. Because mundane humans aren't a threat and cannot possibly harm, interfere with, or stop supernaturals. Right?

Cythereal fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Dec 30, 2016

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