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 This isn't actually the logo they went with. The final logo is a square. I can't use a square as a header, c'mon now. 13th Age part 2: My One Unique Thing is that I'm Batman Now that we know this crucial information about the Icons, it's time to make a character. And man, is the character creation layout a complete clusterfuck. It's fine enough if you've already played a D&D game before: it gets the stuff lifted directly from D&D out of the way and immediately proceeds to the parts that are new or require lots of 13A-specific rules text, but if you haven't played D&D before, it's useless. Bear in mind that while 13th Age is a D&D clone based heavily on 4th edition, it isn't cross compatible with that edition nor any other, in the way that OSR games often maintain compatibility with Rules Compendium first edition, or in the way that Pathfinder can easily run D&D 3e material. This isn't explicitly stated anywhere but quickly becomes apparent in character creation. 13A is full of things designed to be stripped and added to other editions of D&D, but itself is as different from any edition of D&D as they are from each other. Demographic Declaration First you pick a race, which is going to give you +2 to an ability score. There's a list of races: all of the D&D standards, three types of elves, plus maybe your game has aasimar, tieflings, "forgeborn" (dwarf robots), or "dragonics", which is just the worst name for dragon people. Then you pick your class: most of the D&D standards, with the bard and sorcerer present but the druid, monk, and warlock notably absent. (The druid and monk appear in a later book, and the warlock's core mechanical concept is almost exactly identical to the bard's so it doesn't fit.) What does your class do? It gives you +2 to an ability score that is different from the one you got from your race! Anything else is again in a later chapter. And I do mean ANYTHING else: there's no description for the races or classes whatsoever, including what ability score they use or which they can boost. There is, however, room enough for sidebars stating that it's okay to reskin races if you want something not listed here, and a sidebar stating that multiclassing is going to appear in a later book so buy more books. Next up is ability scores: you can use 4d6 drop low or 3e-style point buy. Again, what's notable here is both what's present and what's absent.  This is one of the first appearances of the "author voice" sidebars, one of 13th Age's little idiosyncrasies. Either Rob Heinsoo (pictured here) or Jonathan Tweet (a stylized J.T) butts in to explain why a rule works this way, how you could modify it, or even explain that a rule may not work very well in some games and how you can fix that. They aren't usually quite as defensive as Heinsoo defending rolling attributes; instead, they lay out clearly why 13A works the way it does and warns people about possible pitfalls before it happens. The tone is that the game is really more a set of guidelines and that it might not work perfectly, and that isn't caused by powergamers or a powertripping GM. The honesty about the game's limitations and the urge to not turn them adversarial is nice. Statistical Bullshit What isn't nice is that this is the "ability score" section and it doesn't explain what the gently caress ability scores actually are. They are the usual six Strength, Intelligence, etc. from D&D, with no goofy renames, but if you don't already know what they are supposed to represent or what class might want which, then you are just poo poo out of luck. This seems like a major omission when even long-time D&D players tend to be a little vague on what the difference between Intelligence and Wisdom actually is. There's no indication at all whether 13A is the sort of game that favors extreme dumpstatting (like 4E did), whether ability scores are especially important (one, maybe two tops), or what effect ability scores have on tasks that are not murdering people (probably a negligible one). What is clear is that 13A uses the D&D 3e system where your ability scores don’t really mean anything at all, and instead turned into a modifier that (typically) ranged from -1 to +5. You get about half of the mechanical detail necessary to understand how you translate that modifier into derived stats like Armor Class, Physical and Mental Defense (which are static target numbers, like 4e's non-armor defenses), Initiative, Recoveries, and Hit Points (which are class based and not rolled), but you're not going to learn how your ability scores affect to-hit rolls until you get to the class chapter. As it turns out, except for hit points (CON is as important as ever) and attack rolls, your ability scores do about gently caress all. AC, PD, and MD - and it’s never really clear why there’s a difference between AC and PD - are all derived from your class, plus your middle score from a set of three stats. So AC is (AC from your class) + (the middle of con/dex/wis) + level. PD and MD work similarly, with different ability triplets. This is a whole lot of goofy-assed math in order to always get like either +1 or +2 to your defenses, but if it didn’t exist, ability scores that aren’t used in your class abilities would have no role in combat whatsoever. In theory, this is supposed to prevent people from stacking one stat and using it for everything (along the lines of DEX in many post-3e D&D clones/editions), but it just doesn’t work and it’s a bunch of groggy pointless complexity that is neither fun nor in keeping with the bulk of 13A’s design. One Unique Idea As Long As Feng Shui Doesn't Count Wither that perfunctory and wholly incomplete rundown of the mechanical combat bookkeeping out of the way, it’s time to get dramatic. Every character has One Unique Thing. (It isn’t capitalized in the book but dammit, it should be.) Your One Unique Thing can be anything you want, as long as it doesn’t dominate the story too much or have game-mechanical effects. (Astute observers will note that One Unique Thing is almost identical to Melodramatic Hooks from Feng Shui, written by long-time Tweet collaborator Robin Laws.) Within those boundaries, go crazy. The idea is to get the GM to have ideas for how to get your character involved with the story, while also making your character memorable for everyone involved. Not all of the example Unique Things are especially… well… unique; a lot of the examples are "I have access to information about the plot that the GM will dripfeed whenever appropriate" or fishmalky gimmicks like "I'm an elf wizard who likes fire to a worrying degree." There is some good advice about discouraging Unique Things that will disrupt stories without ruining the concept: the examples of what not to do include "I can tell when people are lying" or "I can fly", which get changed to "I see hidden truths in shadows" and "I have wings". The clear goal of the One Unique Thing is to teach players - presumably D&D players - that they deserve to take a hand in creating the game world instead of ceding that role entirely to the GM. Players are explicitly encouraged to choose Unique Things that aren't just story hooks, but flesh out - or entirely invent - some part of the world they want to explore. Bob Who Always Wants To Be a Ninja is a feature, not a bug; the GM is encouraged to embroider on this. Maybe Bob is always being pursued by ninjas. Maybe there's a whole ninja clan, bubbling under the surface. Maybe Bob will get to found the Dragon Emperor's Secret Hand Clan. It's pretty basic stuff, but placing it in the middle of the stat-heavy, template-heavy character creation chapter sends a significant statement about its importance and focus on player agency. One Unique Thing is an important statement of intent: not every player option in 13th Age has a specific, rigidly-defined game effect or statistical implementation. This is not an especially new or revolutionary idea, but it's an explicit rejection of an implicit design principle in 3rd and 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons where players were heavily encouraged to only do things that are mechanically supported. 13th Age wants to have its storygame and its tactical wargame, but former D&D players can already be counted on to be invested in the tactical wargame. Gestures like this help keep players interested in both halves of the game. I'm Batman Skipping slightly ahead - the Icon Relationship system won't fit into this post - is the other freeform character creation rule: Backgrounds. 13th Age doesn't have skills or proficiencies. Rather, every character has Backgrounds, which are free-form skills invented at character creation by the players. Every character gets eight points to invest, and they can be in anything really, although no character can have more than five points in a single background initially. (Again, attentive players will notice that this is basically FATE Core's skill system.) Using Backgrounds works like skill rolls: you roll (GM's choice of an appropriate stat modifier) + Applicable Background + Level, against fixed DCs based on the difficulty of the task and how hardcore the surrounding environment is. (More on that last later.) To illustrate how this system works - and how it fails - we need players. Let's meet Paul and Fred. Paul makes an elf wizard, one Dexter Das, who is currently on the outs with the Imperial College of Magic And Regional Affiliate Universities due to inappropriate magical experimentation. Dexter's backgrounds are Inattentive Student of Magic +2, Arcane Lore Humanoids Of All Genders Were Not Meant To Know +2, Arcanoacademic Bureaucracy +3, and Inexplicably Surviving Disaster +1. Fred loves paladins and adventuring, so he makes human paladin Athena Darkpath, extremely experienced and somewhat world-weary crusader in the name of the Great Golden Wyrm. Athena's backgrounds are Renowned Adventurer +5 and Has Seen Some poo poo +3. Whether a background is applicable to the current task is mostly up to the players, so Fred is going to have Athena roll that +5 on anything he can possibly conceive of being related to "adventuring" or "being famous" - it's hard to imagine many situations that wouldn't fit into one of those two slots. On the other hand, Dexter's best skill is +3; Paul is punished for Dexter dabbling in many different areas of narrow applicability. Paul's skill list is better in the sense that it gives a clearer idea of what Dexter does and does not know how to do, but all it means is that his character can make fewer skill rolls and gets smaller modifiers when he does so. There's a real incentive for everyone to make one of their backgrounds "Omnicompetence" or "I'm Batman" +5 and never use any other background for anything else. There's also no framework for players to avoid stepping on each others' toes: it's hard to imagine many situations where Unknowable Arcane Lore isn't something that Renowned Adventurer couldn't also handle. There's no good reason to be using skill points in this sort of system at all. It would work just as well if players picked two or three background attributes and just got a fixed modifier on skill checks that somehow fit into those background attributes. Combine that with a discussion on how backgrounds should not be "literally everything" and should be designed with an eye for not overlapping with other players too badly, and this could be a workable system. Next: Relationship Status: It's Complicated Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 25, 2017 16:03
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Also I didn't have time to add this before but I don't know if I'd call 13th Age a heartbreaker of 4e. It's uneven but solid enough to run as an alternative to 4th. It cuts out a lot of the tactical mechanics, too. I'm also looking forward to the glorantha verison. Everyone says that the classes in it are a massive step up in quality. Berkshire Hunts posted:What happened with Dungeon World? This is the first time I've read opinions turned on it. To be be clear, Dungeon World is still a viable alternative for your high fantasy rpg needs, if you're comfortable running/learning an Apocalypse World hack. The weakest points on it are generally the same criticisms leveled against the duller 13th age mechanics.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:05
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The commentary about Backgrounds was surprisingly enlightening in my case to the point I might need to add a house rule about those in my campaign notes to let players get more points to put into them but also having a cap per background. Just to prevent Batman syndrome and not punish those who want to have a wider spread of background. If anything I am going to steal the names of the Magic backgrounds for the future. 
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Mar 25, 2017 16:20
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HerraS posted:As people kept playing Dungeon World it became apparent the system's biggest problem is trying too hard to emulate the mechanics of D&D instead of the feel and so you get stupid poo poo like attribute scores, spell lists and damage rolls that really don't belong in a PbtA game. At least that's my biggest beef with it. That said: as someone who's run a loving TON of demo games for people who've only ever played 3.Path, all those things that we dislike are exactly what make it easy for new players to latch onto. By using concepts we're all intimately familiar with (like stats and HP), people new to indy games just "get" it and we can move on. Yeah, DW hasn't aged well, but I still say it's an important transition game from the D&D field of things to the wider array of games out there.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:22
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Makes a good gateway drug to indie/different games to get the d20 monkey off people's backs, as it were?
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Mar 25, 2017 16:42
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Hostile V posted:Makes a good gateway drug to indie/different games to get the d20 monkey off people's backs, as it were? It really does. Like three years ago at PAX East we had a huge run on people wanting to play DW due to a panel telling people "it's a really good game, go down to Games on Demand and play it" so for two days solid that was pretty much all we ran. We honestly had to turn people away due to lack of table space. I ran something like 12 games over two days, and the booths that were selling DW (including the Indy Megabooth where Adam and Sage were) all sold out. I ran a table for seven people who only played Pathfinder, and they couldn't believe we managed to get everyone's characters made in like 20 minutes.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:51
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13A's layout drove me completely around the bend. It annoyed me even more than the philosophy behind class design.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:55
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13A drives me nuts because it keeps coming close to something I would play, and then going in the near worst possible direction immediately thereafter. The thing that bothers me with One Unique Things is I don't remember the specifics but I find the sample examples kinda frustrating and it has me mechanical hook beyond "have the GM maybe make something up". Like a good chunk of 13A for me, it sounds like someone who read Fate but didn't get it. Ah well, a few years later Strike! RPG came out, and it is hilariously close to exactly what I want in many areas.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:37
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writing something that has no mechanical hook on your character sheet is the whole point of One Unique Thing. the idea is to deprogram D20 players from the idea that everything must have a specific rules implementation and statistical value in order to matter.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:43
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One Unique Things are literally just Melodramatic Hooks, which is fine. I got a lot of mileage out of 'The mightiest former elven male model' and 'Used to be dating the Demonologist', 'Master of Pigeons', and 'broke off engagement with the Crusader by kicking him in the junk.' in the parody game I ran, and they work fine for everything else, too. Having a hook is always worthwhile.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:46
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Cease to Hope posted:writing something that has no mechanical hook on your character sheet is the whole point of One Unique Thing. the idea is to deprogram D20 players from the idea that everything must have a specific rules implementation and statistical value in order to matter. I guess, but I've ran into a couple people toating the OUT as the best thing in 13A and it just confuses me because it's never incentives me or players in groups I'm in to do anything different. I just slap my character concept in there and move on. And yet despite having this, the game still has racial rarities because we don't want to let your character get TOO special. -_-
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Mar 25, 2017 18:19
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Cease to Hope posted:There's a real incentive for everyone to make one of their backgrounds "Omnicompetence" or "I'm Batman" +5 and never use any other background for anything else. There's also no framework for players to avoid stepping on each others' toes: it's hard to imagine many situations where Unknowable Arcane Lore isn't something that Renowned Adventurer couldn't also handle. There's no good reason to be using skill points in this sort of system at all. It would work just as well if players picked two or three background attributes and just got a fixed modifier on skill checks that somehow fit into those background attributes. Combine that with a discussion on how backgrounds should not be "literally everything" and should be designed with an eye for not overlapping with other players too badly, and this could be a workable system. As usual, Godbound does it right. (Almost typed "Dogbound". Now I want that game.)
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Mar 25, 2017 18:36
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Darth Various posted:(Almost typed "Dogbound". Now I want that game.) The Word of Good Boy, the Word of Collie, the Word of Fetch.
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Mar 25, 2017 19:32
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PurpleXVI posted:The Word of Good Boy, the Word of Collie, the Word of Fetch. Fetch is happening, friends, and soon. Are you right with Your Master?
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Mar 25, 2017 19:43
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Honestly I'd probably just rip out Godbound's facts for use in place of 13th Age's backgrounds, as they seem like an evolution of the concept that's actually had mechanical thought put into it. (And also cover some of the OUT stuff) All facts have the same rating (+4 to relevant rolls) They've got rough guidelines on what scale they 'should' cover , and can also function as permissions (If a Godbound dedicates a fact to "Is a wizard of a particular special school of human magicl" they get the abilities of that school of magic. Or if they say 'I'm a dwarf," they can see in the dark and the bonus is to things like 'detecting stonework traps and analyzing depth underground and drinking beer without getting half of it in their beard.) Also I bet you could crossover Godbound and Pugmire pretty easily.
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Mar 25, 2017 19:51
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Darth Various posted:As usual, Godbound does it right. Looking forward to seeing the threads in 6 months when every goon's mind changes from "Godbound is a solid, fun game" to "Godbound is a horrible train wreck of a system that broke every goon's heart." I started using the Escalation Die for Godbound combat because the whiff-factor of the d20 kind of killed the vibe of the characters being epic demigods in combat. It's worked well so far. (The Die also matches right along with the 1d6 charts for monster tactics)
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Mar 25, 2017 20:47
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I have not read Godbound, but isn't it OSR?
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Mar 25, 2017 20:48
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Simian_Prime posted:Looking forward to seeing the threads in 6 months when every goon's mind changes from "Godbound is a solid, fun game" to "Godbound is a horrible train wreck of a system that broke every goon's heart." Yeah, that's a good idea.
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Mar 25, 2017 20:56
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I'm still happy with games like 13th Age and Dungeon World. Hell, I just recently bought all the CoD core books (except Beast). It's not very strange or mysterious to me that, as time goes on, enthusiasm dampens and complaints gain prominence. Nothing can keep the hype train going forever, and people love to complain. However, there still seems to be a distinction between games like 13th Age and DW, where they remain relatively popular "but…", and games like A Song of Ice and Fire that just sort of slowly slide into nothingness.
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Mar 25, 2017 21:48
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PurpleXVI posted:The Word of Good Boy, the Word of Collie, the Word of Fetch. Isn't this basically Pugmire?
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Mar 25, 2017 22:07
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Loxbourne posted:Isn't this basically Pugmire? 
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Mar 25, 2017 22:12
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Mr.Misfit posted:Are....are you secretly David Lynch?
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Mar 25, 2017 22:23
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Polychrome - A World of Steel and Stain The Crunch After some advice about running adventures on Polychrome, your typical Crawfordian adventure seed tables, and guidelines on how to handle investigations, we move on to new crunch! Hacking The internet on Polychrome is a bloated mess of all kinds of different protocols, access methods and ways to transfer data. Poorer folks might have to content with oldschool computers, while the elite might afford to plug their very mind into the net. And much to the delight of hackers, even databases that are seemingly off the grid can be accessed remotely if you know what you're doing and can get close enough. Polychrome doesn't do the whole Shadowrun thing of handling hacking like some sort of tech combat. Instead it's just a single skill check. Hacking actions you can perform inclue hacking into databases to aqcuire information, steal money or change records. You can also try to create an alternate identity known as a ghost. They come in three levels: level 1 ghosts are useful for handle smaller financial activities, but don't hold up to close inspection by the authorities when you try anything too big with it. Level 2 ghosts are effectively "real" people, and level 3 ghosts actively try to protect themselves, erasing criminal records against themselves and safely pulling out money if the authorities try anthing funny. Combat on Polychrome You generally don't want to cause trouble with the cops in the better districts, since those have good security and send reinforcements about as fast as the cops in GTA. The slums are mostly lawless areas controlled by gangs, though the security that does show up is a lot more likely to use lethal force. Thanks to Polychrome's long cybernetics history, the medical facilities are plentiful and in decent condition. You can get yourself patched up even in the worst of districts. Officially, citizens aren't allowed to buy and own anything more dangerous than pistol or melee weapon. People in the slums naturally don't care, and even the upper-class tends to pack more heat, albeit not openly. To keep the gritty cyberpunk feel, Polychrome isn't really into energy weapons. As with most worlds in Stars Without Number, the authorities are generally okay with body armor as long as it's not too heavy or militant-looking, because that's a bit suspicious. Sightseeing tours in power armor are right out of the question. Covering your tracks when you're on the run from the police is a lot easier on Polychrome, since the Proteus implant makes DNA identification useless. Even if you can't afford the implant, you can usually find some stitcher to change your retinas, fingerprints, and more! The Mean Streets This section includes statblocks for common foes you might run into on Polychrome. Cop Security (HD 1) isn't too big of a threat for experienced PCs, but they typically appear in numbers. Cyberninja (HD 3) have already been mentioned in the corebook a few times, and now we finally have their statblock. They are naturally infiltrators and assassins using cutting-edge technology. No autofire weapons, but they can slice you up in melee or throw a monoblade at you from afar. A special variant of Cyberninja are know as "Judiths" or "Judies". They go through extensive biosculpting to better get close to their target. Elite Operatives (HD 6) are scary. They can take quite a beating, and wield their nasty monoblades and mag pistols with deadly accuracy. Gangster Thugs (HD 1) are much more harmless. Little combat training, weak weapons, and they tend to flee often. Stained Termies (HD 1/2) are the unfortunates who have developed common signs of terminal Stain infection. Knowing that they're doomed anyways, they tend to go a bit revenge-crazy. They go down easily, but will generally fight to the death. Zadak Raiders (HD 1) are basically more accurate cops. They have four arms, two of which ending in mantis claws and the other two holding an organic, plant-based rifle that shoots chitin shards. Zadak Warbeasts (HD 5) are basically giant centipedes with mantis claws on their legs, slicing and dicing any foe within range. The funniest trick a PC can pull off is identify its Handler, shoot him and watch it going berserk in the middle of a Zadak group. Psionics on Polychrome Polychrome never had much of a history with Psionics, probably because the planet was colonized before the FTL exposure started to unlock psionic abilities. When someone on Polychrome is shown to have psionic talent, he's usually snatched away by one of the megacorps. Being a corporate psionic is quite lucrative, but nobody on the planet quite knows how to properly train a Psychic. Since failure to control your powers can fry your brain, that is somewhat of a problem. The megacorps have tried to hire Psychic mentors from other worlds, but they are hesitant to take the offer since there's a very high chance of surprise cyberninja assassinations from other megacorps. Since cybernetics have fixed their little Stain problem, the megacorps eventually found a way to kinda sorta do the same for their Psychics: The Firewall System. It consists of chips containing cloned brain matter which will be damaged by the user's psychic energy in his brain's stead. To ensure obedience, the implant also happens to supply you with a hard to replicate drug cocktail that will kill you if the supply runs out. You're basically a psychic Jem'Hadar. Ruleswise, the Firewall System replaces the power point system from the corebook with a charge-based system. A single chip is good for 10 uses before it is completely fried, at which point you either have to swap it out or fry your own brain via torching. Not burning out a chip is recommended as you can let the tissue heal itself with a chemical bath. Even if you're well-off and can afford multiple backup chips, you'll eventually have to make Tech saves to see whethr or not your brain is overloaded and needs to recover for a day. Thanks to the shoddy training and the implant getting a bit in the way, Psychics from Polychrome can't learn psychic powers beyond the 5th level, so no flying around or planet-wide teleport shenanigans in this cyberpunk world. Cyberware on Polychrome  Resistance is futile. Thanks to Polychromes experience with cybernetics and the infrastructure to support it, you can not only get the regular Cyberware from the corebook at a nice discount, but also get yourself Cyberware that is largel exclusive to Polychrome. Biosculpts let you mess around with your appearance, changing anything from your skin color, gender, or apparent species. If you pay extra for a Rebuild, you can also change your DNA. Cheaper ways to pimp yourself up include Personal Augmentation Technologies (stuff like a new nose or an implant that takes care of your hair) and Phosphor Tattoos (aka tattoos that glow and can be changed on the fly). The corebook already featured small kinetic spikes and other integrated weapons that let you punch people in power armor, but what if you want something less subtle with a bigger punch? Well, how about Cyberclaws? They count as monoblades and include everything from Wolverine claws to giant elblow blades. A favorite with Cyberninja, though they're hard to conceal unless you use the "Feint" Cyberware Signature to mask them as some other piece of Cyberware. Direct Interface is a favorite for hackers. You can wirelessly interface with most devices, and have a number of plugs for the others. It comes in two levels, with the first one requiring sublte gestures and subvocal commands, while the second one is completely controlled by your mind. This adds a bonus to your relevant skill checks, but has an added critical failure chance for when you get nervous and lose concentration. Three of the most advanced pieces of Cyberware lets you do some superhero stunts: the "Gecko" Gravity Anchors let you temporarily change in which direction you're affected by gravity (letting you run on walls and ceilings), while the Inertial Shunt Nodes can turn full-body kinetic impacts into harmless light (aka you can survive falls and crashes; I think you can get this in most Deus Ex games) and the Neural Overload Wiring lets you gain extra turns (at the cost of raising your System Strain, which is also eaten up by stuff like Cyberware and healing; still pretty nifty to have). The Integral Commlink is a simple audiovisual transceiver and receiver that is reliant on the local communications grid, so probably not very useful on more primitive worlds. Covert Ops and other sneaky fellow will like the "Deep Echo" Penetrative Radar (which senses objects through walls and overlays them onto your regular vision) and the "Masquerade" Polymorphic Identity which lets you collect DNA, fingerprints and retinal signatures. Especially the first one is not too useful on Polychrome, but at least you can get it simply by touching someone. The other two are even easier to get as they just require you to look the guy in the eyes or at his fingers. There's tons of shenanigans you can do with this after your trip to Polychrome. If things go really badly, you might want to invest int a Panic Button Implant. If you've been knocked out with 0 HP and there seems to be no help coming, this one-time implant will pump you full of nanobots. They'll patch you up, but the ensuing system shock will reduce some of your attributes. And of course we can't forget the "Proteus" Metamorph Implant. It protects you against the Stain concentration in the Warrens and even lets you survive a bit longer on the surface, and you gate a saving throw bonus against radiations and other effects that try to mess with your DNA. Adventure Resource Sheets This is a bunch of tables to roll up sudden twists or buildings, as well as a list with prices for common goods and services. Also includes a helpful summary of what is considered to be "a lot of money" on Polychrome for each social class, which is always helpful for bribes. Next Time: Bad Blood, an example adventure.
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Mar 25, 2017 22:42
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Darth Various posted:As usual, Godbound does it right.
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Mar 25, 2017 22:42
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HerraS posted:As people kept playing Dungeon World it became apparent the system's biggest problem is trying too hard to emulate the mechanics of D&D instead of the feel and so you get stupid poo poo like attribute scores, spell lists and damage rolls that really don't belong in a PbtA game. At least that's my biggest beef with it. Evil Mastermind posted:Yeah, DW hasn't aged well, but I still say it's an important transition game from the D&D field of things to the wider array of games out there. Hostile V posted:Makes a good gateway drug to indie/different games to get the d20 monkey off people's backs, as it were? Simulationism causes brain damage.
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Mar 25, 2017 23:03
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Halloween Jack posted:DW at least deserves credit for driving the simulationist crowd to a new level of insanity. The Gaming Den invented the memey phrase "Quantum Bears" because they really couldn't grasp the idea that, since DW embraces fail-forward storytelling, a consequence to the classic problem of "The adventure can't progress because the Rogue can't pick the lock" could be something like getting attacked by monsters. In their minds, that means that in DW you can summon infinite monsters by tapping a lockpick against a door, and therefore DW is insane and incoherent. At the same time I would 100% like to fight a quantum bear.
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Mar 25, 2017 23:13
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Dungeon World: Our monsters don't wander, they perform quantum tunnelling.
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Mar 25, 2017 23:17
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I'm starting work on a sci-fi homebrew inspired by all the games we've been talking about, so I'll try to fit a quantum bear in the Monster Manual somewhere.
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Mar 25, 2017 23:17
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Halloween Jack posted:Simulationism causes brain damage. Eh. For my money the problem with simulationism is this: https://twitter.com/jefftidball/status/807820921830592517 Like, Trollman's complaint that any failure in DW can become bears isn't false per se, it's just also true of every other roleplaying game there is. With the possible exception of his beloved D&D 3.5, but that's only because statting up monsters on the fly for D&D 3.5 is a colossal ballache so unless you've got a pre-made dossier of bear encounters for every possible CR you're going to have problems keeping up. E: In essence his whole problem is that DW makes it easier to do the same things you could do in any other game.
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Mar 25, 2017 23:21
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"Failure should be embraced and used to complicate stories, like adding spices to a dish. Failure doesn't mean everything stops dead in its tracks." "That doesn't make sense. If I am failing, I am not winning. It must be the fault of bears." Yeah that sounds like simulationist nerds.
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Mar 25, 2017 23:25
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potatocubed posted:a pre-made dossier of bear encounters for every possible CR Why wouldn't you have that, though? It's the bear essentials.
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Mar 25, 2017 23:29
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unseenlibrarian posted:They've got rough guidelines on what scale they 'should' cover , and can also function as permissions (If a Godbound dedicates a fact to "Is a wizard of a particular special school of human magicl" they get the abilities of that school of magic. Or if they say 'I'm a dwarf," they can see in the dark and the bonus is to things like 'detecting stonework traps and analyzing depth underground and drinking beer without getting half of it in their beard.) And the best thing is that any mechanical effects they give you are balanced in that they just give you ways to interact with normies and the world in general without having to whip out the giant sledgehammer that is your god powers. Berkshire Hunts posted:I have not read Godbound, but isn't it OSR? OSR mechanics, but with interesting ideas. It's also Exalted in spirit, but thankfully not in execution. That Old Tree posted:I'm still happy with games like 13th Age and Dungeon World. Hell, I just recently bought all the CoD core books (except Beast). It's not very strange or mysterious to me that, as time goes on, enthusiasm dampens and complaints gain prominence. Nothing can keep the hype train going forever, and people love to complain. However, there still seems to be a distinction between games like 13th Age and DW, where they remain relatively popular "but…", and games like A Song of Ice and Fire that just sort of slowly slide into nothingness. I swear 5th edition is build with this phenomenon in mind. The typical 5e tale seems to go "I don't know why everyone's complaining this is all so fun and quick and *10 levels later* oh..." Halloween Jack posted:Simulationism causes brain damage. 
Doresh fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 25, 2017 23:29
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The possibility of bears at any given juncture is a feature and not a bug.
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Mar 25, 2017 23:30
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Darth Various posted:Why wouldn't you have that, though?  Although I'm so temped to whip up exactly that for Pathfinder now and throw it on DTRPG as a novelty pdf.
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Mar 25, 2017 23:32
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potatocubed posted:Eh. For my money the problem with simulationism is this: I think the most logical way to convince these grogs of the error of their ways is to write a heartbreaker where the PCs have to dungeon crawl turn-by-turn so the GM can track the positions and behaviors of every monster in the whole dungeon based on their Initiative and Perception rolls.
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Mar 25, 2017 23:34
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Hostile V posted:"That doesn't make sense. If I am failing, I am not winning. It must be the fault of bears."
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Mar 25, 2017 23:37
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Alien Rope Burn posted:The possibility of bears at any given juncture is a feature and not a bug.
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Mar 25, 2017 23:37
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Halloween Jack posted:Simulationism causes brain damage. *hides copies of GURPS and treasured Phoenix Command supplements* Yeah those simulationist sure are a wacky lot, aren't they!
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Mar 25, 2017 23:40
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Who wants to be Powered by the Apocalypse if you can be Powered by Hero System?
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Mar 25, 2017 23:41
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Nessus posted:Do these guys have an obsession like Sterling Archer, just for bears instead of crocodiles? So basically Stephen Colbert?
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Mar 25, 2017 23:57
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