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Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Doresh posted:

Non-spellcasters can never have nice things. Some things never change.

Non-spellcasters had plenty of nice things in 2nd edition and arcane spellcasters had an awful learning curve, a fact which WotC appears to have cast actual magic to cause people to forget.

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Adnachiel
Oct 21, 2012




Malcolm Harris posted:

Nothing is perfect, We all make mistakes and despite everything nothing created is flawless.

Witch Girls Adventures is always growing and changing, through your feedback , convention demos and the various means we discover changes that need to be made and things we've forgot to add that needs to be added.

Most games would at this point release a new edition forcing you to spend you hard earned money on multiple books and basically buy the same thing over again. That's not how we do it.

Instead we release supplements and in this case a book that fixes our problems, adds to the game and doesn't force you to buy a full book.

So here we are, The book that turns Witch Girls Adventures 1.0 into WGA 1.5. Hopefully it'll do what we intended, help you run a better game and play in a better world.

Witch Girls Adventures: Respelled (or Witch Girls: Respelled depending on whether you go by the cover or the DrivethruRPG page) is the “2nd edition” of Witch Girls Adventures, an indie game for tween to teenage girls created by the barely functioning (and possibly law-skirting at this point) Channel M Publishing. WGA is a game where you play a (usually) tween witch who goes to magic school and does all the things that tweenage girls with near absolute control over the fabric of reality do. It was also written by someone with a transformation fetish and is based on stories from an old Geocities ezine for said fetish. Along with whatever stories the game’s creator, Malcolm Harris, and his unofficial partner-in-crime, Abigail “Abby” Soto, come up with when they need to get their rocks off, presumably.

Roughly 4 years ago, over the course of two previous FATAL & Friends threads, FourmyleCircus and I did write-ups of nearly all of the then available books published for the game. You can read those here, here, and here. If you don’t want to read all of those words (and aren't just reading these one after another on inklesspen's site) and have no idea what WGA’s myriad problems are… well, you’re gonna have to for reasons that will become apparent soon. But here’s some cliff notes:
  • The mechanics, while serviceable, are wonky in some parts, broken in others, and occasionally make references to unused systems that were scrapped during development. (E.g. A D12+7 in a stat is considered worse than a D20. There are incidents of being forced to pick skill specialties with no mechanical system in place to compensate. Many skills are made useless by others that can be used for the same skill checks. The ranking system for spells goes up to 10, but any spell above Rank 6 effectively becomes GM fiat due to how overpowered everything is.)
  • The books tells readers to read supplement materials that were never released for information on some things.
  • Most of the NPCs in the core book were not stated using the same system used for PCs, resulting in them having powers that PCs can never have mechanically or completely outrank PCs of the same age and background by a ridiculous degree. (E.g. A 12 year old PC from the Sorceress clique gets 8 ranks to assign to her magic types. Lucinda Nightbane, a 12 year old NPC from the Sorceress clique, has 31.) Some of the said NPCs are also unusable because their sheets have unexplained elements from an older system in them or, in at least 2 cases, are just outright illegal to make.
  • Malcolm Harris couldn't pass an elementary school English class to save his life. The books are littered with grammar and punctuation errors and more than a handful of unfinished thoughts and sentences. The editors and proofreaders didn't do a drat thing to fix this beyond running the various Word documents that make up the books through spellcheck.
  • Characters in the default setting want, to quote a reply to a previous write-up, to literally “kill babies and be a saint at the same time”. (I’m not using “literally” wrong. There is a stated instance of this happening in canon.) Witches are given carte blanche by their government to kidnap, murder, and straight up abuse innocent humans as long as their doing so doesn’t cause whole countries to take notice and do something about it. They also routinely subjugate other magical beings and their governments and treat them like second class citizens... because they can, even while being vocally against the same social and political problems they have (e.g. non-universal suffrage, slavery, mistreatment of endangered animals etc.) in the mundane world and working behind the scenes to get rid of them. Almost none of the perpetrators suffer serious consequences for their actions and the game itself largely handwaves or ignores the hypocrisy and rampant corruption within witch society. This is all while the setting bemoans how humans are always persecuting witches for being different. Even NPCs who are said to be good-natured have moments where they flip out and either harm or threaten to harm someone via magic for petty slights. (It has been mentioned by people who have dealt with them that Harris and Soto have a poor grasp of the idea that actions can have negative consequences, and see such things as detrimental to a fun role-playing experience.)
  • Princess Lucinda Hexxina Nightbane, Princess and High Enchantress of the Empire, and Lady of the Dark Isle of Corbus.



Back in March 2012, Channel M created a Kickstarter asking for $2,000 to make a second version of WGA, then titled Witch Girls: Book of Shadows. It succeeded and managed to raise $8,717 with nearly 170 backers. The book’s original release date was set for Halloween 2012… then March 2013… then a nebulous “when it’s ready”.

Months turned into years and eventually, Channel M’s original site went down and Harris went silent. Many of the book’s backers contacted Harris through email, Facebook, and Kickstarter about receiving a refund, only to get brushed off or ignored. At one point, Harris came back to announce that he was going to sue Disney for having a witch named Lucinda in one of their TV shows. Then went silent again when I assume it failed because no one outside of a niche sub-culture has heard of his and Soto's lovely character.

On March 26, 2015, the book, now with its current title, was released on DriveThruRPG and Lulu with no fanfare and no download codes for the backers. In the year that followed, Harris also released 10 supplement books for it. No, they weren’t offered to the backers. (He has offered to give people refunds, but from the looks of things, most people haven’t received them.)

So after four years and almost $9,000, what do we got?

Well for starters, as Harris himself points out in the quote above, the book is not a traditional standalone 2nd edition. I would describe it as a glorified errata book, since it is meant to be used in conjunction with the original core. Though it’s pretty much the core book with most of the setting fluff taken out of it (and in some cases, put into the supplements instead). So it could also be a 2nd ed core, I guess? (It also costs $10 as a PDF. Backers of the Kickstarter had to pay $20 to receive a PDF copy.)

(There’s also a “Director’s Cit” of the original core that doesn’t seem to be available anymore. I don’t know how much of it is identical to this book. (Though it seems like a lot of it is.) System Mastery has an episode on it if you want to know more.)

As you can probably guess, a lot of the stuff promised in the Kickstarter is not in the book. This includes the promises made about the intro comic.

quote:

Printing cost for a full color book: Like the original that would include a comic book style intro but instead of being ten pages, it’ll be 22 pages.

The comic is “The New Girl”, the 12 page continuation from the original WGA opening comic that Harris offered for free along with the first part on his Facebook one Free Comic Day several years ago. Unfortunately, that link doesn’t seem to work anymore. So here’s a summary.

(By the way, I came across this Tumblr post from “Phuong Hong Au Nguyen", the artist of this comic and the one in the WGA core. Apparently, Channel M were the ones who did the wonky lettering and were bad communicators all around.)

The comic picks up with Rosa Montoya arriving at Willow-Mistt. (Rosa, if you remember, is a late bloomer of a witch that the headmistress of Willow-Mistt sent the main NPCs cross country to pick up instead of an adult staff member because shut up.) Almost immediately after she sets foot on campus, the headmistress, Amora Mistt, pops the gently caress out of nowhere and scares the poo poo out of her.



I assume she just came from her office.

Mistt acts coy and showoff-y as Rosa talks about believing magic and “brujas” were fairy tales and that the other girls made Mistt out to be a hellspawn demon. Mistt goes through the expected pleasantries and hopes that she will eventually feel at home at the school.

And just when you thought things were gonna be okay, Lucinda shows up.



So teleporting around isn't allowed while all other forms of magic are apparently allowed on the front lawn.



I guess that unspoken rule from the core about not doing magic on the first floor of the main building, lest any mundanes show up and see it, doesn’t apply outside.

(My high school Spanish is incredibly rusty, but I’m going to guess that Spanish from Rosa has something wrong with it.)

Headmistress Mistt explains that, per school tradition, the last new student serves as the current new student’s guide. So Lucinda will be the one showing her around the school. What happens at the start of the school year when they presumably get a bunch of six-year-olds from magical families who know what’s up? Who knows.

She leaves Rosa at the mercy of Lucinda, who immediately gets pissed off over being told what to do.



Yeah right, like you study. Your sheet says you’re better than most adults at magic.

She teleports them to Rosa’s dorm room, which turns out to also be the room of Circe Woodsworth, the Draco Malfoy of the school because Lucinda doesn’t actually fill that role on paper. Circe gets pissy because she was told she would have a room to herself that semester due to there being an odd number of students enrolled. Then gets pissy when Rosa tells her that she’s new to the whole magic thing. This allows Lucinda to explain the various Cliques.



Circe confirms that she thinks she’s better than Rosa and chides Lucinda for hanging out with the riff-raff. (“And to think, I used to be ever so slightly envious of your position and power.”) Rosa tries to attack her and gets her bones turned into jelly, because we’ve gone 4 pages without someone getting mutilated by magic.


Lucinda demands that Circe change Rosa back, then does it herself when she refuses. It’s not because Rosa is her friend, you see, but because she made a promise to show her around the school, and Lucinda takes her promises seriously in this story. The fact that Rosa stood up for the little puke is a bonus too.

Then Lucinda turns Circe into a cigarette and smokes her, because Witch Girls.



There’s a crash from outside. Lucinda and Rosa go to a window to see that someone hosed up a spell during a class and summoned a bunch of lesser flying monkeys. Lucinda wonders aloud how many students they’ll eat before the teachers step in. Rosa insists that they go out to help, but Lucinda finds the whole situation amusing. Plus, Rosa doesn’t know any magic. But she heads out anyway.

Outside, Amber, Amy, Lillian, and Monica fight the monkeys with various spells with stupid-sounding chants. Rosa makes up for her lack of magical knowledge by just trying to beat the poo poo out of them. Presumably realizing that Rosa might die during the fight, Lucinda comes out and turns the monkeys into snails and Circe into a legless pile of embers.



The fight over, Monica wonders why none of the teachers showed up to help them. It turns out the reason why was because they decided to teach the students a lesson about cleaning up their own messes. They even had a betting pool going to see who would deal with it.



Remember that these monkeys are capable of killing the students, if Lucinda is to be believed. So in this case, no, Tandy. It's not.

Circe, now fully formed thanks to healing magic from Amber, threatens to get them all shipped off to the Dwarven cold iron mines and berates Lucinda again for her taste in allies. Lucinda says that she only calls the other girls her friends because it pisses Circe off. None of the other girls have a problem with this because that’s just how Lucinda do.

On the title page, Harris is credited for everything except for the art, playtesting, and the Assistant Editor position; a one Marcus Harris. He’s just as bad at editing as Emily Foster, who seems to have vanished from Channel M’s roster. Soto is still on art duty, but nearly all of the art is done by other people. So the book isn’t full of ugly traces of celebrities smashed together to look like witches murdering people. Which is nice. (Unfortunately, the same can’t be said for the supplements.)

Next: Rules

Adnachiel fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Mar 2, 2016

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Oh goddamnit. Not more Witch Girls.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008



Every time Witch Girls or that other one like it get brought up, my soul throws up.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


I mean we already objectively finished Witch Girls when someone made Punch Witch, the Witch who Punches.

Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos


Night10194 posted:

I mean we already objectively finished Witch Girls when someone made Punch Witch, the Witch which Punches.

Fixed it.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Quinn2win
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?


We will never be free from Witch Girls Adventures.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!


I thought I spied some new supplements for this on RPGnow (on a "customers who bought this title...") but it doesn't feel like the kind of thing I want to double check.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



Lucinda is just infuriating as a character even when removing the fetish bait, she's basically the ultimate edgelord mary-sue, and basically makes no sense.

A character powerful enough to teleport someone to a pocket dimension even before she drew her first breath, and basically canonically is more awesome at magic then the teachers, has zero desire to learn, engage in school activities, or a need to be 'protected', and clearly dislikes being in school would not stay, so it's a huge "Why the gently caress are you even here?"

Then her very presence makes everyone else worse - it's hard to believe anyone is a good guy if they respond to her sadistic, murderous "pranks" as 'Lucinda just being Lucinda'. And it's not like anyone shows they're doing it because they're terrified of her, but that casual torture is no big deal to the group.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



I guess it'd make for a good villain backstory. Anyone with that much effortless power and hatred for authority is going to start calling up Satan for favors and murdering people for fun and power right quick.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



Black August posted:

I guess it'd make for a good villain backstory. Anyone with that much effortless power and hatred for authority is going to start calling up Satan for favors and murdering people for fun and power right quick.

If she was ever treated as an outright villain, it'd be more forgivable, but she's treated as the cool anti-hero.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Robindaybird posted:

If she was ever treated as an outright villain, it'd be more forgivable, but she's treated as the cool anti-hero.

Yeah, that'd be the fun though. A bunch of bullied and fearful chumps stammering "Well she's an anti-hero and still with us!" before the mass serial killing starts and most of them end up dead and saying "Shoulda gunned her down when we had the chance."

EDIT: And then you call in Delta Green and the real fun starts

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Kavak posted:

Non-spellcasters had plenty of nice things in 2nd edition and arcane spellcasters had an awful learning curve, a fact which WotC appears to have cast actual magic to cause people to forget.

But you see, 2nd edition is the odd man out. It's not as recent as 3rd edition, and it has too high of a page count for people to bother retrocloning it.


Now I know who the example villains of my Sparks of Light review will be based on. I will make sure not to use the exact same name, for I fear the mighty lawyers that might be send against me for using a name that is totally unique and one-of-a-kind.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Doresh posted:

But you see, 2nd edition is the odd man out. It's not as recent as 3rd edition, and it has too high of a page count for people to bother retrocloning it.

IIRC 1st and Basic had the same balance of power.

Simian_Prime
Nov 6, 2011

When they passed out body parts in the comics today, I got Cathy's nose and Dick Tracy's private parts.

Telluric vampires sound cool.

I was think of using a similar explanation for the powers of Twilight vampires, since they're basically made of a sparkly, granite shell around a chewy crystal center.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!


Simian_Prime posted:

Telluric vampires sound cool.

I was think of using a similar explanation for the powers of Twilight vampires, since they're basically made of a sparkly, granite shell around a chewy crystal center.

So the best way to handle them is with mining charges? -style?

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Angelic Player's Guide: Holy Diver

So, once you've applied for a Word, if the Council decides it'll further the cause, they give you a Testing. This helps determine if you have the power to serve the Word you want in the best way possible, and to single out an angel if there are competitors. The specifics of each Test are up to the Council, but usually involver your abiltiy to serve the chosen Word. Each applicant might have to undertake a separate quest, or they might all have one task that could be acoomplished in many ways, with the most appropriate approach getting the Word. Vew important and contested Words may require multiple Tests. Every Test is fair, but they are never easy, and occasionally might be fatal. There is no room for incompetent Wordbound. Once the Testing is over, the surviving applicants appear before the Council and present their deeds and final arguments. Any angel may comment on the matter, and once all testimony is complete, the Council makes its decision. If they grant the Word, then the chosen applicant steps forward and sings the part of the Symphony representing the Word, resonating with it. The Seraphim join in and bind the Word to the angel's Forces, making them a new Wordbound.

So, switching Superiors! There are two main reasons an angel might do it. In one case, they have no choice - their original Superior has had a problem or otherwise elected to trade them away. In the sceond case, they want to change Superiors, perhaps because of some problem or perhaps because they are Outcast and seeking succor with another Word. Either way, it's not easy or done lightly. An angel dissatisfied with their Archangel can seek to leave their service, but it's a very serious decision. Usually, the first step is to petition the Archangel you want to serve. Then you ask your current Archangel for permission to leave, and usually they'll want to know who you're transferring to. Their reaction varies depending on your standing, their views and who you're swapping to. If it's a hostile Archangel, your current boss is likely to be unhappy, but if they're a friendly one, it often goes more smoothly. If they find your reasoning to be flawed or selfish, they will deny your petition. In all cases, you do have the option to bring your petition to the Council and request their judgment. This is a last resort - the Council's judgment is final, period. You must have the backing of the Archangel you want to serve to have any chance of a favorable judgment, and it's almost certainly going to leave bad blood with your former Archangel.

More rarely, an Archangel will loan an angel to another. This is usually temporary, and it doesn't change which Word you serve. All Creationers are currently in the service of other Archangels, but are still of Creation, for example. It's rare for these arrangements to be permanent. An Archangel might trade an angel away because of a favor owed or a desire to get rid of the angel, but other Archangels are more likely to declare a troublesome angel Outcast than give them away. In all cases, any exchange is only going to happen between relatively friendly Archangels. An angel will also be forced to seek service to another Archangel if their current one is not available. When Uriel was recalled, his former angels largely became angels of the Sword, but a few chose to become Outcast or serve another Archangel. In any of these cases, an angel can appeal to the Council if they feel treated unfairly, but you'll need an Archangel's support in some manner. The Seraphim Council is unlikely to favor you if both your Archangels are in agreement about a trade and no other Archangel will speak for you or take you on.

Angels that change Archangels are altered on a fundamental level, gaining new dissonance conditions and losing their old ones. They usually lose all the attunements of their old master, but may be allowed to retain distinctions or Rites if the parting was friendly. Any XP spent on attunements is lost unless the GM feels really generous. You get your new Archangel's Choir Attunement free; anything else you buy for yourself. You may often need to do some difficult or dangerous tasks to prove your worth. Other angels might be suspicious if you left your former Archangel's service in a negative way. Archangels know that sometimes an angel wants to change bosses, and each feels differently about it. Any that try to change more than once, however, are almost certain to become Outcast for rebelliousness and will have trouble earning trust. Not being able to work in Heaven's hierarchy is what led to the Rebellion, after all.

It's not easy to be an angel. Every angel can be tempted and suffer selfishness and doubt. When dissonance becomes too great, your soul itself fractures, your Heart cracks and you become Outcast. An Outcast's Heart is not broken, but the bond between them is. The Heart no longer acts as a beacon for them to enter Heaven, nor can it be used to locate them on Earth. Losing dissonance can help mend a cracked Heart, but only a Superior can make it whole again. Archangels always know when one of their own becomes Outcast, but even they cannot deliberately shatter a Heart. Some Archangels leave the broken Hearts of Outcasts lying where they are, in the hopes of their return, while others treat them as traitors, little better than the Fallen, and hide their Hearts away so they may not be seen. Only an angel's Fall, however, can cause the final destruction of a Heart.

The mechanics are simple: fail a dissonance roll, become Outcast. This isn't just bad luck, though - the roll cannot be failed unless you have at least three dissonance, which means you've hosed up repeatedly, and you always had the option of turnint it into Discord. Some angels risk a Fall in the hopes of riding themselves of their dissonance first, as Discord is harder to remove, but hey, free will ain't easy. Of course, an Infernal Intervention can make you Oucast with even one dissonance, so don't be complacent. Reasoning that you're safe because you don't have much dissonance risks infernal attention! Some angels also become so rebellious that a Superior cannot stand the sight of them, even if they have not 'tripped' on their own. It's rarely done, but an Archangel can punish you by making you Outcast - it's the second worst thing they can do, the first being destruction. It is rare, and it's only done if they expect you can make it back into the fold after learning your lesson. Often, Discord will be given at the same time...but it can only be done before or at the moment of fracturing the Heart, not after.

Outcasts regain Essence at sunrise but may not access any Rites from any Archangel, with two exceptions. First, if they are Wordbound, they can use their own Rites. Second, they can use any Rites granted by a Demon Prince. (Don't do that if you plan to get back into Heaven, however. Each time you do it, you gain one dissonance!) Outcasts do retain all Songs and attunements, but will lose any distinctions they had. Outcasts can invoke their Superior only if they have no dissonance. They are no longer bound by their Superior's dissonance conditions, though Archangels still know if those are violated somehow. No explanation. Outcasts may not enter Heaven, but may fellow a demon into Hell. Outcasts that enter Trauma do not go to Heaven, but to Limbo. They have no Heart to return to, see. While in Limbo, you are out of access for an indefinite period as you try to regenerate a vessel. Because Kyriotates can't have vessels, Outcast Kyriotates have special problems. If they exceed their normal time limit out of a host (10*Celestial Forces) minutes, they do not get forced back to Heaven - they instead must make a Will roll. On a success, they suffer one dissonance. On a failure, they get one dissonance and (CD+Celestial Forces0 soul damage. Either way, they then have (Celestial Forces) minutes to find a host before they roll again, continuing until they find a host, die or Fall. Kyriotates cannot go to Limbo unless they have the power to form their own vessel, such as those of Stone or War. Others just disband when they would enter Trauma, dying entirely.

There are several motives found among Outcasts, and several common attitudes. The Repentant is an Outcast that regrets their actions. They now acknowledge they were wrong, though they may not entirely understand why. They want to get back into Heaven and their Archangel's favor, and will probably be trying to be scrupulously angelic in order to prove themselves worthy, avoiding anything that might be even possibly dissonant. They are terrified of a Fall. They often have no tolerance for sin, having experienced the price firsthand, and this often remains true even after they are restored, which is one reason Dominic sometimes forgives them.

The Self-Pitying is an Outcast who blames their Archangel, fate or Heaven for their situation. They regret it but do not take responsibility. They argue that they're no more dissonant than many who haven't become Outcast and may believe they are unfairly singled out. They may crave forgiveness and work toward it, but are unlikely to receive it until they accept their responsibility. If they get over their self-pity and become truly penitent, they have a good chance of being restored to Heaven. Otherwise, they often become bitter and resentful, and then Fall. Angels who are friends of them may counsel them to reform, while demons encourage their self-pity.

The Angelic Defiant knows they broke the rules, but believe they were in the right. They still consider themselves on the side of the angels, but are fighting on their own terms. Some are would-be reformers trying to convince Heaven they were right, while others are arrogant and believe themselves superior to the Council. A few brave and foolhardy angels choose to become Outcast in the belief that they can fight more effectively that way. They are vigilantes, and while some angels may sympathize, their methods are inevitably destructive and dissonant. Sooner or later, they go too far and Fall. Their arguments can be persuasive to angels suffering doubt and frustration, and Dominic considers them the most dangeorus Outcasts...but they are also the most useful to those Archangels that need truly deniable operatives.

The Hellbound Defiant is neither sorry nor sympathetic. They know they're heading for a Fall and either don't care or have given up. How long they remain in this state without a Fall is entirely determined by how hard they try to avoid it. Those that truly don't care will Fall quickly - it's not that hard to become a demon by choice. Many still dread the Fall, however, and try to maintain their status as long as they can, often trying to get out of the War entirely out of apathy and fear.

Some Outcasts will go into hiding and avoid other celestials. Others continue to act in the War, for whatever reason most suits them. What they all have in common is being a target for both sides, with few friends. They are thrown from Heaven, and angels consort with them at their own risk. Dominic sees them as fugitives that must be destroyed before they Fall. Even an Outcast trying to redeem themself must face Dominic's prosecution and judgment. Some Archangels prefer a hands-off policy to Outcasts, and others even try to help them redeem themselves, but always quietly. And some Archangels employ Outcasts at times, when they need a deniable operative. Janus, for example, may want to get something stolen from a recalcitrant angel of Stone, or Michael may need an assassin. Lesser Wordbound can also hire Outcasts. Either way, it's rarely done directly, but instead via intermediaries in order to maintain deniability and secrecy. The rewards vary from putting in a good word for an Outcast trying to get back to Heaven to a Song or attunement to even just Essence or an artifact. Dominic hates the practice, however, and will prosecute it if he gets evidence. Hell, of course, loves Outcasts they're victims to terrorize and drat. Princes also are willing to hire them as expendable agents, especially if they can be persuaded or tricked into fighting other angels. Any demon would take advantage of that, and it's a good road to a Fall. Of course, any payment will be calculated to cause dissonance and temptation.

Can you be a Wordbound Outcast? Yes, but it's rare. You keep your Word - no one can take that from you. The Inquisition will try to hunt you down, of course. You can still grant your Rites to other Outcasts (or non-Outcasts, but few will accept), so Wordbound Outcasts can even form networks within the Outcast community...though associating with them can put your chances of getting back to Heaven in jeopardy.

The Fall's not quite as easy as it sounds, though. To do it, you need to act against your basic nature, and even just a few times is rarely enough. The first step means you have to become Outcast. An angel can't just go straight from Heaven to a Fall by chance. If you continue going against your nature as an Outcast, however, you're looking for trouble - you have a chance of a Fall by failing a dissonance roll now. If you can't avoid dissonance, it's often best to turn it into Discord for this reason - it may be more permanent and inconvenient, but it'll keep you out of Hell.

Dissonance is, definitionally, stressful. It comes from your own decision to ignore your nature or the nature of the Word you serve. Guilt and shame and fear are all common among the dissonant. Some change their behavior and act in new ways, while others try to hide their dissonance. Behavior change isn't always a sign of dissonance, however - it could just be a bad week. Some angels can detect dissonance and Discord, and Seraphim can just use their resonance and ask, of course. Angels react to dissonance in many ways, though. The greater the dissonance, the stronger the effect. One note iwll hardly have any outward sign, and most angels understand that a single note can just be bad luck and won't torture themselves over it, though they will work to cure it. Malakim are the exception - even one note of dissonance makes them feel terrible. Two or three notes is a visible but subtle effect. Their personality will be clearly off in some way due to the stress. An angel with more dissonance than that who doesn't Fall will really show the strain, in constant danger of losing their nature and in constant fear of Judgment and Hell.

Some angels, particularly Seraphim, will just reveal to their friends that they have dissonance. They might be emotional or matter-of-fact about it, and they'll often hope for help. Of course, tell the wrong person and the Inqusition or your Archangel will be breathing down your neck. Others will overcompensate for their bad behavior, becoming caricatures of their Choir. A subtly dissonant Ofanite might pace constantly, while an extremely dissonant one might just never stop moving, ever, even to eat or sleep. An Elohite might refuse to make any decision for fear of subjectivity. A Kyriotate might get into as many small vessels as possible, even if it means not getting anything done, for fear of harming a human host.

Other angels respond the opposite way: they start to test their limits. They edge as close as they can to further dissonance without crossing the line. For some, this is a valuable lesson about themselves, but for others, it's a feedback spiral to Hell. A slightly dissonant Seraph might seem to be more reasonable as they begin to test the idea of the social lie, and they may learn...or they might Fall. A dissonant Mercurian might get grouchy or even threatening.

Some angels become neurotically guilty, manifesting a Discord they don't actually possess, often the one that would manifest if they turned the dissonance into Discord. Others become overanxious and start using their resonance at every possible chance. Still others become overfixated on their Word-dissonance conditions, become caricatures of their Word - angels of Animals might look for excuses to hurt humans, while the Swordies may act as if they have no will at all, living only for orders. It gives them a sense of stability and may entice their boss to remove the dissonance. The flip side of that is the angel that becomes neurotic about skirting the edges of the rules, or who loses faith in their Superior. The best thing for these angels, if they can't come to their senses, is to transfer out - and the worst that can happen is for their Archangel to notice the problem.

The key to any Fall is arrogance. Self-righteousness is not a safe belief for any angel. Any un-Fallen angel never truly wants to act against the divine - it's not in them to do so. But, they may believe that what they think is always what's right, regardless of what any other might say or do. So, how can an angel, of call creatures, believe they alone know what is right, beyond even an Archangel? That's easy: what if you think you have the answer and the Archangels have overlooked something? God's not around to ask. He doesn't take an active role. He leaves the daily operations to the angels. Heaven guesses that Yves can talk to God, but that's never been confirmed. If an angel assumes they're right and the Archangels assume that they are right, who has proof? If an angel really believes they have the answer and that God won't listen or confirm, they may decide they must act on it. This is a simple way to become Outcast and dissonant, and is the main way angels Fall.

Next time: The long way down

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


drat, mispost.

Huh, gently caress Witch adventures It's disgusting.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



Black August posted:

Yeah, that'd be the fun though. A bunch of bullied and fearful chumps stammering "Well she's an anti-hero and still with us!" before the mass serial killing starts and most of them end up dead and saying "Shoulda gunned her down when we had the chance."

EDIT: And then you call in Delta Green and the real fun starts

Or she gets an one-way foreign exchange trip to Al Amarja and have her fall prey to either the locals, the various conspiracies and dark forces there, or just the general weirdness.

Simian_Prime posted:

Telluric vampires sound cool.

I was think of using a similar explanation for the powers of Twilight vampires, since they're basically made of a sparkly, granite shell around a chewy crystal center.

I always joked that the "sparkling" came from extraordinary regeneration powers. The sparkling came from how the reacted to the common vampire drawback of sun exposure, with the "sparkling" really being their outer layers of skin shedding and catching fire.

Crasical
Apr 22, 2014

GG!*
*GET GOOD


Witch Girls Adventures has always been that specific frequency of terrible that I can't look away from it, and in fact, crave more.

I'm perversely happy to see it back in the thread again.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




It's probably partly how horrible and blatant the fetishes are, the complete inability to any sort of thematic or moral consistency, and the utter inability for the authors to realize either of these problems. It's the sort of insanity combo you usually only find on creepy deviantart galleries or the like.

LatwPIAT
Jun 6, 2011

Do I need a title?

Asimo posted:

It's probably partly how horrible and blatant the fetishes are, the complete inability to any sort of thematic or moral consistency, and the utter inability for the authors to realize either of these problems. It's the sort of insanity combo you usually only find on creepy deviantart galleries or the like.

Witch Girl Adventures is basically Abby Soto's DeviantArt gallery turned into an RPG.

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.



It is bad webcomic the rpg

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



So. Uh. Does that mean that Circe's legs are inside of Lucinda's mouth and lungs. Because if that's the case man I would not have turned her back to normal and risked choking to death.

Magnusth
Sep 25, 2014

Hello, Creature! Do You Despise Goat Hating Fascists? So Do We! Join Us at Paradise Lost!




man, i wish there was a good tween witch girls go to tween witch school and have tween witch adventures. Not because of any particular desire to play a tween witch, but i'd muuuuch rather see more tween girls enter our hobby than well, the usual suspects. Tween girls grow up, after all.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Young Freud posted:

The sparkling came from how the reacted to the common vampire drawback of sun exposure, with the "sparkling" really being their outer layers of skin shedding and catching fire.

That could be a fun take on vampires, actually: they're perfectly free to walk around during the day, they're just perpetually on fire when they do so, regenerating fast enough that it doesn't physically impair them.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Witch Girls Adventures is just disturbing. Like, what the gently caress?

CaptainRat
Apr 18, 2003

Smooth




Oh no, not more Witch Girl Adventures

Bring back the Secret Life of Cats.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012


Fallen Rib

Magnusth posted:

man, i wish there was a good tween witch girls go to tween witch school and have tween witch adventures. Not because of any particular desire to play a tween witch, but i'd muuuuch rather see more tween girls enter our hobby than well, the usual suspects. Tween girls grow up, after all.

I remember when WGA was first announced that people on RPGnet were super stoked to see someone making a new RPG you could sit down and play with your kids. Boy did that not work out!

Precambrian
Apr 30, 2008



I'm not okay with Lucinda, but knowing that DAME HILDA PUNCHWITCH can wreck her poo poo six ways to Sunday as a starting character makes her a lot more bearable.

Magnusth
Sep 25, 2014

Hello, Creature! Do You Despise Goat Hating Fascists? So Do We! Join Us at Paradise Lost!




CaptainRat posted:

Oh no, not more Witch Girl Adventures

Bring back the Secret Life of Cats.

Ask and thou shalt recieve


Secrets of Cats, part 2 - Cat-names


So, this chapter starts off with an overview of character creation in basicly list form. Nothing new. Character creation is basicly like fate core, but with cat related changes. 3 refresh, some free stunts, etc.

The differences are:
Aspects have changed. HC and Trouble as usual, but in addition to that, there’s burden, true name and a free aspect.
Skill list is changed slightly. 4 new magical skills, shoot, drive and craft is gone, and contacts and resources are condensed into terretory.
You get 3 mundane stunts, 3 magic stunts.

The next page, the start o the chapter proper describes playing a cat in more detail. It’s good stuff.
First, you’re a cat and do cat things, from getting distracted by laser pointers or string, you likely hate water, and cats tend to get themselves into trouble. Basically, this means you can get compelled or self-compel for doing cat-things and invoke to be good at balancing and stuff.
Next, it talks about your senses. night and color vision, bad at seeing certain reds, good nose and can sense air currents, all that stuff, basicly.
Further, cats can’t read, mostly, but they can leave simple sent markins.
And lastly, cats don’t get the human world and humans. pictograms are foreign to them, they often need to figure out what a human is doing through evidence, etc. The book suggests that you describe thing as an outsider and ask for lore and investigation rolls, which is a good idea, i think. And it is of course fertile soil for compels.

Aspects


As mentioned, Cats have slightly different aspects than usual Fate characters.
High concept is the same, but you can only take exclusive magic stunts if you are a specialist, which needs to be included in the high concept - the example being ‘greedy seeker’.
I actually think this is a bad idea, because being a specialist in a school of magic doesn’t really mean all that much. There doesn’t seem to be any social role or stigma tied to it or anything like that. It doesn’t say much about your character. Needing an aspect to justify those stunts, sure, but why the high concept?
Moving on, trouble is just trouble aspect. no changes.
The next aspect is Burdens. This aspect details the humans you protect. Usually that means owners, but stays might protect some homeless person they like, or the kindergarten whose kids love them or whatever. Honestly, i think this could’ve just been combined with their trouble, as that’s what your burden will usually act like.
Next is the true name. This aspect describes your cat’s true name, which describes something of your core identity - examples are ‘silent hunter’ and ‘oath-keeper’. The game further suggests that you could have him interact with other characters in the backstory for inspiration. Nothing else to see here, except a sidebar about the various names a cat has - their true name, their everyday name by humans, their kitten name, and the name the take when they become adults. You’re supposed to use the latter, and sharing a true name is, as usual, a great trust.
Lastly, you get a free aspect, and the suggestion is that you can tie it to other players.

Skills


As for skills, you get the usual fate pyramid allocation. The skills imported without change from fate core are:
Athletics, Burglary,Deceive, Empathy, Fight, Investigate, Lore, Notice, Physique, Provoke, Rapport, Stealth, and Wil. Further, There are the magic skills, and Contacts and Resources have been made into one skill. So far so good.
The new skill you get instead of contacts and resources is Territory. Territory is essentially how much Territory you’ve got. This means you’re more respected and have more sources in your Territory that you can draw on, but also makes you more of a target. It’s used for gathering information and strange resources, as well as create advantages related to reputation or status, that sort of thing.
You can also do conflicts with Territory. Winning one gets you an aspect and your opponent an aspect - a positive one for the winner and a negative one for the looser. It’s neat and simple.

Magic


So, the magic skills. Ground rules first:
If you only know a skill at +0, you always need to pay a cost, no matter your roll, and can’t take any stunts. Fair enough
+1 up, the skills work as normal, and you can take stunts that aren’t exclusive.
For exclusive stunts, you must master it, i.e. have its title- warden, seeker, namer or shaper- in your high concept
You start with 3 magic stunts in addition to normal stunts, and can spend refresh to improve this.
As usual, the stunt list is not exclusive. You should play up true names or sacrifice when making up new stunts. Further, if a player uses a sacrifice-powered stunt, weather or not it needs to be played out depends on the GM and the situation.

Onwards to the actual magic skills, then!

Warding

Yeah, this skill does basicly what it says on the tin. Creates wards. To create a ward, you have to name an area with a specific, but not nessecarily tangible, border - a clearing, a house, a yard, etc. etc., and you have to leave a sacrifice there of a small animal. The ward lasts until the animal rots away, but humans usually find and remove them before that.
The difficulty is based on the size of the place to be warded, and each specific or general threat to be warded against. if you know something’s true name, warding against it doesn’t add to the difficulty. When a named threat tries to pass a ward, you get to roll warding against it directly. For magical foes, that’s a litteral wall of force, but for mundane threats, bad luck forces them out - lockpicks break, alarms go of, they get confused and turned around, that sort of thing.
Each area can only be warded once, and cat troublemakers abuse that to overextend their wards to deny others the possibility to ward that area.
A Warden - i.e. a specialist - can lead other cats in a Chorus, where a bunch of cats, who must know at least Average Warding, all ‘sing’ together and in the end, you get an extra free invoke on your ward per cat. You can’t attack with warding, but you can defend people and creatures in the warded area from designated threats.

Warding has four example stunts, neither of which require sacrifices:
Invisibility, which makes you invisible if you beat a roll against a passive diiculty depending on the situation - easier in darkness, harder if you’re black in a white room, etc. etc.
Shadow Armor, an Excusive stunt that gives you an armor value, but fills a mental consequence as you draw shadows and darkness in around you. Also lets you Fight spirits and such.
Absorb, also excplusive lets you whisper you and an ally’s true names to a pebble, and as long as you touch it, any stress your ally takes it halved, and you take it as your choice of physical or mental stress. Others can use the pebble as a Strong link to one of you, though, which is bad if your enemies get it. lasts until sunrise or sunset.
Lastly, Cat Walk lets you walk on air by creating wards agains yourself, letting you get to interesting locales. However, you’re not supposed to get seen doing that, so if you get stuck in a tree, well… sucks.

I'd planned to actually do this whole chapter in one go, but i found that difficult. I'll aim for shorter, burst-written posts, i think. Its a short game anyway, so that draws out the fun a bit.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Magnusth posted:

Ask and thou shalt recieve


Secrets of Cats, part 2 - Cat-names

The naming of cats is a difficult matter,
It isn't just one of your holiday games
You may think that I'm as mad as a hatter
When I tell you a cat must have three different names
First of all, there's the name that the family use daily
Such as Peter, Augustus, Alonzo, or James
Such as Victor or Jonathan, George or Bill Baily -
All of them sensible, everyday names

There are fancier names if you think they sound sweeter
Some for the gentlemen, some for the dames
Such as Plato, Admetus, Electra, Demeter -
But all of them sensible, everyday names

But I tell you a cat needs a name that's particular
A name that's peculiar, and more dignified
Else how can he keep up his tail perpendicular
Or spread out his whiskers, or cherish his pride?

Of names of this kind, I can give you a quorum
Such as Munkustrap, Quaxo or Coricopat
Such as Bombalurina, or else Jellylorum -
Names that never belong to more than one cat

But above and beyond there's still one name left over
And that is the name that you never will guess;
The name that no human research can discover
But the cat himself knows, and will never confess

When you notice a cat in profound meditation
The reason, I tell you , is always the same
His mind is engaged in a rapt contemplation
Of the thought, of the thought, of the thought of his name
His ineffable, effable, effanineffable
Deep and inscrutable singular name
Name, name, name, name, name, name

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.




Grimey Drawer

I love you in a deeply platonic fashion, just saying.

Cythereal posted:

That could be a fun take on vampires, actually: they're perfectly free to walk around during the day, they're just perpetually on fire when they do so, regenerating fast enough that it doesn't physically impair them.

I think I saw this on a Pink Floyd cover.

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



Bieeardo posted:

I love you in a deeply platonic fashion, just saying.


I think I saw this on a Pink Floyd cover.
Yes, but those were a day-walking breed of vampire: businessmen.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!


TheTatteredKing posted:

It is bad webcomic the rpg

Yeah, I remember a certain webcomic from the old bad webcomic thread that was rather singularly focused on witches and transformation. And in their FAQ there was a outright question of whether or not it was a sex thing, and they're like "Nope! We just think it's fun."

And then it had a story where a wizard goes around turning people into his sex harem, and you realize how rare self-awareness can be.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Doresh posted:

But you see, 2nd edition is the odd man out. It's not as recent as 3rd edition, and it has too high of a page count for people to bother retrocloning it.

It actually has been retrocloned: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/156530/For-Gold--Glory

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!



Also Hackmaster borrows partly from 2e. Really, the difference between a cleaned up clone of AD&D and AD&D 2e itself can be somewhat academic, since they share the same design goal, and most 2e material can be used for AD&D with minimal adjustment anyway.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Also Hackmaster borrows partly from 2e. Really, the difference between a cleaned up clone of AD&D and AD&D 2e itself can be somewhat academic, since they share the same design goal, and most 2e material can be used for AD&D with minimal adjustment anyway.

I really wanted a shot at playing HM 4e, because there's so much stuff in it that, at least in my opinion, is an improvement over AD&D as long as you can restrain yourself from using absolutely everything and drowning in the crunch.

But I think it has too much of a reputation as a "joke" and/or overly crunchy game.

Shame too that KenzerCo doesn't have rights to produce PDFs of it.

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Ratoslov
Feb 15, 2012

Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!



Crasical posted:

Witch Girls Adventures has always been that specific frequency of terrible that I can't look away from it, and in fact, crave more.

I'm perversely happy to see it back in the thread again.

Me too. It's already been pretty horrible/good, I'm sure it's going to go somewhere magical.

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