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Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




Kavak posted:

Which one is that?

Assuming Black Templars.

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Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Cooked Auto posted:

Assuming Black Templars.

My reply as at the bottom of the last page, but close: Imperial Fists. According to GW, the Fists are based on Prussia in general and the Teutonic Knights in particular.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Cooked Auto posted:

Assuming Black Templars.

Black Templars are the Imperial Fists' marine-laundering scheme.

That's not even a joke, the Templars are, as I said, allowed to stay overstrength because they're on Crusade, forever. The Fists produce too many Marines, but happen to just casually fob them off to the great Templar crusade. Or pull Templars out of the Templars and into the Fists if the Fists are understrength. Thus, the Imperial Fists have as many Marines as they need while technically not violating the Codex that their Primarch hated.

Though as you can see in the review, the Templars are also psychopaths.

If I remember right, the Templars were also the first Marines to get their own army, starting the trend of 'half the goddamn armies in this game are some flavor of Imperial Marine.'

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Mar 24, 2018

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Scion: Hero
We Are All Manitou

The divinities of the Anishinaabek people are the Manitou, and they've always been here. They range from divine humans with magic to primeval forces to small faeries, and they live in the World. The Manitou, unless most pantheons, do not seperate themselves into an Overworld and Underworld. They're just here, unseen. The primary Manitou were born of the destructive acts of a Titan against a noble god, and they are a nuclear family in the way few pantheons can claim. They recognize countless spirits, great and small, and treat them all as equal. Manitou is a term that applies equally to all of them. Their divinity is different only in degree, not kind. Because of this, many pantheons are dismissive about them, suggesting they have no real structure or respect for authority. For their part, the Manitou look at most pantheons and just see Manitou. They come in all shapes and sizes, but only a small number have had an active role in the myths and development of the people. Most humans think of them only as connected to nature, but that's an arbitrary and false restruction. Yes, theire are Manitou that watch over mountains and deer and corn, but there are also Manitou that care for people, cities and strip-mining. As new gods mix with the Manitou, the old ones see them as equally ancient Manitou that they're just now meeting. It doesn't mean they're all friends - far from it. But they're all Manitou.

The Manitou are the bringers of art, tradition and prosperity. They are very human divinities - brash, self-righteous, full of a deep and abiding pride. Typically, they don't interact with the day to day lives of their people. While offerings are made to them, that's as often as not to keep them away, acknowledge the right to live of those beasts or plants they care for even as they are killed, or to have them bless some interaction. When a Manitou actually shows up, it's a significant event, and not always a good one. Many Manitou are predators, after all.

Geezhigo-Quae, the Grandmother of Us All, is also called Nokomis, Grandmother and Sky Woman. It is said she came from the Sky People, potent beings that live above the clouds. The story says she was deeply pregnant and came down to earth to deliver, but there was no safe place, for the World was covered utterly in water. Whether she came down, fell or was told to go down by Kitchi-Manitou is a matter of debate, and she never tries to answer it when she hears the story. Once she was in the World, a great turtle allowed her to rest on its back while she begged the animasl to find eart, deep under the water. The animals each tried, one after another, until at last the muskrat was able to bring up one paw full of earth. Sky Woman made the soil grow and expand over the whole of the turtle, forming Turtle Island. Once made, the plants and trees immediately took root, that she might sustain herself and her child. This was the home of the people. Today, Geezhigo-Quae continues to watch over the people. She loves humans and will advise any that seek her out. She adopts Scions easily, seeing all of them as her grandkids, and she has been known to adopt them from any pantheon, or evne Titans or Primordials. The Manitou just accept them, as long as they don't cause too much trouble. Her own Scions are typically driven to gather and care for people. Some have argued that she actually has no Scions besides those she has Chosen - that is, she doesn't actually give birth to them. Typically, she only has one Scion at a time, usually a woman. Sometimes she is given power, other times she is mostly human. Often, these Scions die after they have children of their own. Some who survive speculate that Geezhigo-Quae gives birth to her own Incarnation as part of some cosmic cycle. Her Callings are Guardian, Sage and Healer, and her Purviews are Moon, Sky, Stars, Beasts (Crane, Turtle) and Order.

Sidebar: The Turtle Island is most of the World, but not all of it. Other islands exist, too, which came later and probably also are on top of turtles or some other creature. The important thing is, Turtle Island hasn't always been here, and it will, eventually, return to the waters. It's part of Earth, but it is not Mother Earth, who was there before Turtle Island and was covered in water. It's an allowance from her, a part of her, which is called up to support the people. Only great Manitou can speak to the earth-diving creatures, then use that earth to grow a Tutle Island, and Muzzu-Kumik-Quae can reclaim it by extending her waters. This is a sacred gift of renewal that brings new life, but only by destroying the old to create anew. Nana'b'oozoo and Wisakedjak have called forth Turtle Islands, too, and the world has flooded more than once. Many believe it will happen again soon - Muzzu-Kumik-Quae has been spekaing of how dirty she feels. Sky Woman will not call the Turtle Island without Kitchi-Manitou's blessing just yet, but just in case, she is watching out for someone she can teach to make a Turtle Island in case it's needed. She doesn't trust Nana'b'oozoo to always be around or get it right again.

Muzzu-Kumik-Quae, the Mother Earth, is also known as...Mother Earth, and Earth Woman. She came to be when Kitchi-Manitou made all things. She received the created peoples and the Manitou onto herself. She is the World, the heart of the earth and water, and as befits her elder status, she is tended by the thunderbirds, that keep her cool and cleansed, and who burn down old forests to ensure a proper cycle of growth and regrowth. Earth Woman has many forms, but most often appeas as an old woman. A famous story tells of four young men that find her to bring prosperity. She gives them their wish when treated with kindness, giving them bundles of medicine. They returned him, brewed it and drank it, and they thought they were swindled, as nothing happened. Then, they all died. The people buried them, and from their graves sprang Earth Woman's gifts: evergreen trees, the weegwaus (or birch tree), flint, and finally tobacco. The people used these to prosper. Muzzu-Kumik-Quae likes to give boons to those with genuine requests, but there's always a catch. She is, after all, nature. She is blood and soil and rock and storm. No life, to her, means more than any other. All are part of the cycle. To gain her aid, you know you must give to the cycle. She doesn't care if you're a vegan or a carnivor or a medicine-person or a gangster. All things have a place. Muzzu-Kumik-Quae's Scions are diverse, but they have an inherent connection to the Earth and its creatures, including humans. They often excel at hunting, fishing or farming, but grow enraged at excess and abuse of the land. They can be found in lots of agricultural or wildnerness pursuits, plus earth resource or human rights activism. Her Callings are Healer, Sage and Hunter, and her Purviews are Beasts, Fertility, Earth, Sky and Water.

Winonah, the First Woman, is also called Winona and Tekawerahkwa. She is the child that was born to Geezhigo-Quae on the Tutle Island. On her birth, she immediately grow into a woman, and lived among the people for generations without a childhood. The Titan Ae-pungishimook came across her bathing, and she was taken and made to bear a son. He returned four times over four generations, and each time, she was made to bear a son. She is said to have died in the final birth, but it was never permanent, and she has always returned. Her sons brought tradition the people and cleared away many bad Manitou. Winonah continues to exist, and she is mother to many Scions. She is a loving mother that puts a lot of energy and time into fostering and adopting kids of all kinds, plus working on women's rights issues. She's generally on the move, trying to keep ahead of Ae-pungishimook, who still shows up every few generations when he wakes up, and he still tries to, well, rape her. She inevitably puts up a hell of a fight. After a time, she will then fade from the world, leaving her mother to tend to her children until, invariably, she can escape the Titan and his spawn. Winonah has appeared, given birht to a pantheon and died more than once. Her name changes, but always, she is Sky Woman's only daughter. Thus, she has many names and MAntles, but generally the only real difference is which Manitou she gives birth to. One of the more notable manifestations, Tekwerahkwa, gave birth to two very different kids who often do battle with the sons of Sky Woman-as-Winonah. Her Callings are Guardian, Lover and Healer, and her Purviews are Health, Passion, Prosperity, Epic Stamina and Fortune.

Maudjee-Kawiss, the Firstborn Son, is also called the Warrior. He is the first son of Winonah, and his name roughly means 'the beginning son' - with all the responsibilities that come with it. He is a great warrior that can beat just about anyone, and his Scions tend to also excel at physical pursuits. Unfortunately, he also takes after his father and has inherited much of Ae-pungishimook's Titanic demeanor. He rarely gets along well with others for long, and he's quite brash and with a terrible temper. His first instinct to handle any problem or slight is violence, force and strength. Others have learned to avoid him, for fear of provoking his rath. He knows he makes people uneasy, because they're so weak, so he tries not to stay in one place long, and tends to follow rumors of gatherings of warriors or good fights. He does stop by from time to time, to check on the people. However, he carries a grudge very well indeed, and when he is in Anishinaabek country, he tends to try and start fights with any non-native pantheons in the area, particularly European ones. His Scions tend to have a hard life - he's got a habit of showing up when they're age four, training them, and then dropping them in a lovely situation to see how they do. If they please him, he keeps an eye on them and helps them out from time to time, or invites them to go hunting and hang out. If he's not pleased, he tends to make fun them of them and then never show up again. While Maudjee-Kawiss generally dislikes most Western pantheons, he has been occasionally seen in the company of Oshoshi, Skanda and Artmeis, hunting wendigo and other titanspawn. His Callings are Warrior, Leader and Hunter, and his Purviews are Beasts (Bear, Eagle), Epic Strength, Epic Dexterity and War.

Pukawiss, the Disowned, is also called Unwanted. He is the son Ae-pungishimook didn't understand. Pukawiss had no care for fighting or sports or anything his father thought of as manly. He was squeamish, hated killing, wouldn't even look at dead animals. He was interested in playing and listening and stories. He was distracted by life. His father saw all this as impractical, and so he became known as Pukawiss, which roughly means 'Disowned', as his father actively avoided him. Pukawiss became a dancer, actor and prankster. His pranks and his tendency to tease his brother Nana'b'oozoo caused his brother to go into such a rage that he was chased under a mountain, and Nana'b'oozoo tried to kill him with thunder and lightning. Pukawiss escaped death, though he allowed his brother to think him dead, watched as he mourned and felt fuilt, and then started pranking him again to let him know he was alive. He's still doing that, now using the entire internet. Pukawiss has no patience for fools or the self-absorbed, and so he has not really noticed his father's abandonment. Everything else is much more interesting. He sees the drama and lessons inherent to life, manifesting them by pantomime and dance and acting. Sometimes, he gets so in character that he walks around pretending to be an animal. While his father disowned him, the people are drawn to him and his lessons. He has invented many dances, imbuing them with meanings to raise consciousness, most notably the hoop dance. Like their father, Scions of Pukawiss are storytellers and dancers with an inherent restlessness that lets them see the flaws and nature of the things around them. They tend to have an inherently therapeutic quality to their actions, and while some can be found on grand stages, they are more often drawn to places where people gather and move to more intimate spaces. They also tend to be strong-willed and want to do things their own way. They may be attracted to traditional dances, but almost always mix them with the modern and inventive, which can make them rather unpopular in more traditional areas. Pukawiss' Callings are Trickster, Lover and Sage, and his Purviews are Epic Dexterity, Artistry (Dance, Acting, Storytelling), Passion (Mirth), Fortune and Deception.

Cheeby-aub-oozoo is the Chief of the Underworld. He is also called Jiibayaabooz, Chipiapoo, Moqwaio and Ghost of Rabbit. He is the third son of Winonah and Ae-pungishimook, and he lacked either the brashness or silliness of his elder brothers. He's the serious one, similar to Pukawiis in having an inherent connection to the world, but different in that he needed to know why things were as they were. He would often go into trances, listening to the beauty of one thing in particular for hours at a time, which others found weird and offputting. Before long, he began to seek out the dwellings of the Manitou, hearing them whisper to the life around him. He'd speak to thin air and creep everyone out, making them fear he was possessed or would attract bad Manitou. Instead, he received visions from them that showed him how to make special drumsand do ceremonies to speak with the Manitou. He taught the people to fast and seek visions, and how Manitou would help them if treated right. He brought about new chants and songs that pleased the Manitou and made the people dance. Even Pukawiss was impressed. He finally met his other brothers at Nana'b'oozoo's wedding...but at a cost. Maudjee-Kawiss hated the lack of manliness in his siblings, chiding them and shaming them such that Cheeby-aub-oozoo tried to prove him wrong and show he, too, was mighty. He got in a canoe and went to fight a giant and never returned. They later found him drowned in the lake that night. Nana'b'oozoo weeped so hard that he summoned his brother from the land of the dead as a phantom, and everyone yelled at Nana'b'oozoo to send him back. Cheeby-aub-oozoo returned to the land of the dead, where the dead elders asked him to be their leader, their ogimauh. Now, he mostly remains in the land of the dead, but still ventures out on occasion to speak to Pukawiss or Nana'b'oozoo. He will have nothing to do with Maudjee-Kawiss. His Scions are strange people, often bothered by spirits and with moments of sudden genius. Most are drawn to communication and the building of communities, and many have a knack for programming and AR games, and using them to communicate with the Manitou. Cheeby-aub-oozoo's Callings are Liminal, Hunter and Judge, and his Purviews are Beasts (Wolf), Death, Epic Stamina, Artistry (Song, Music), Order and Darkness.

Nana'b'oozoo, the Prototype of Man, is also called Manobozho and Wisakedjak. He is the youngest son of Winonah, and the child she first died giving birth to. While he is sitll a son of Ae-pungishimook, his father never came to visit or teach him. Only his nookomis, his grandmother, was there to raise him. While he grew quickly, without parents his demeanor and perception remained somewhat childlike or selfish. He wanted to be loved and had great power, but he was given to emotional extremes and would not be taught. Thus, while he tries hard to do good, he is often impeded by his own failings. He is lazy, cowardly, has a bad temper and his hunger easily distracts him. While he thinks of himself as a mighty hunter and warrior, he is more often than not just a lucky fool. He discovered and gained many great powers, which have made his fumbling and his successes both larger by orders of magnitude. The people know he is a champion and a Manitou, because Manitou in human form can be a bit unstable. A rumor was going around that Nana'b'oozoo got in a canoe one day with Geezhigo-Quae and left the World, frustrated by the general lack of acceptance the people had for him and their tendency to laught at his foolishness, despite their quick acceptance of the strange ways of newer pantheons. Of course, he failed to acknowledge that the people were still somewhat upset by the whole time he caused riots and made Kitchi-Manitou flood everything, as he has always maintained that it wasn't him, it was that rear end in a top hat Wisakedjak. The rumor was, he was going to stay away until they apologized. Of course, he's the only one spreading the rumor, and so when the people realized that, they started ignoring him. Nana'b'oozoo has always been impatient, and when no one cried over his absence, he started looking for ways to return without losing face. He's discovered social media, and his Incarnations are invariable social media stars. His video channels are popular, and he has millions of followers. That most are laughting at him when he speaks his mind or does (very good, for the record) burlesque shows doesn't bother him - he now has thousands of friends, and it's a short trip to laughing with him. The downside is that Pukawiss trolls him fiercely, and some people follow him just to see the rages he goes into when his brother pushes him. Every now and then, someone tries to be as witty as Pukawiss; it rarely ends well for them. His Scions tend to share their father's knack for bumbling into and out of trouble. He is an exceptionally attentive and friendly father, as he wants to be around like his father never was. His Callings are Trickster, Hunter and Warrior. His Purviews are Beasts (Rabbit, or Wolf for Wisakedjak), Chaos (or Water, for Wisakedjak), Epic Dexterity, Fortune and Journeys.

So who is Wisakedjak? Well, one day, Nana'b'oozoo had an incredibly bad day, and Wisakedjak was born as a Mantle. He's associated with many of the same stories, but he's more of a troublemaker. Nana'b'oozoo is a lovable fool and collaborative trickster. Wisakedjak starts poo poo to see what'll happen. He's sorry when it goes bad, but it's already done, and while sometimes he fixes it, just as often he runs away. There was already that one flood incident, which he is really sorry about, honest. The biggest difference? Nana'b'oozoo grows with humanity, teaching them to avoid mistakes by making them. Wisakedjak has more in common with European trickster figures, punishing with savage lessons that can be fatal if you can't adapt.

Next time: The Orenda, Ioskeha and Tawiscara.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Cythereal posted:

Imperial Fists. According to GW, they're based on Prussia and the Teutonic Knights.

I don't buy it. Their helmets aren't nearly ornate enough.

Black Templars are probably inspired by a... very different epoch of German history.

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




Cythereal posted:

My reply as at the bottom of the last page, but close: Imperial Fists. According to GW, the Fists are based on Prussia in general and the Teutonic Knights in particular.

Ah, bad timing on my part then.

Night10194 posted:

Though as you can see in the review, the Templars are also psychopaths.

Yeah I know about that but considering how bonkers the Templars are it might just have backfired.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Kavak posted:

I don't buy it. Their helmets aren't nearly ornate enough.

Black Templars are probably inspired by a... very different epoch of German history.

40k in general is shockingly weak on the hat game, and despite the name the Black Templars wear the heraldry of the Teutonic Knights - if they were actually based on the Knights Templar, the cross on their white tabards would be red instead of black.


Also, the Dark Angels are based on, no joke, gay dudes (and also medieval knights mixed with mystery cults - they recruit from anywhere they go and their thing is 'we don't care who or what you were, you are now a Dark Angel and nothing else matters' and only very slowly revealing the chapter's history and beliefs as Marines move up the ranks). Their primarch is Lion El'Johnson - consider the openly gay English poet Lionel Johnson whose best known poem is called The Dark Angel, and the Dark Angels call their homeworld The Rock - also the name of a gay bar near GW headquarters in the 80s, supposedly.

40k has historically had an... interesting relationship... with distinct currents of hypermasculine homoeroticism in the setting, especially regarding the Marines.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay: Deathwatch and Rites of Battle

Original Character, Also Do Not Steal

It's time to see the character creation system in motion. We start off rolling up the basic attributes, as has been done in every one of these Warhams reviews, and we get WS 46, BS 43, Str 46, Tough 39, Agility 32, Intelligence 47, Willpower 41, Perception 41, and Fellowship 47, after Chapter modifiers for a STAR DRAGON. Our clumsy, sickly OC will reroll his Agility and gets it to 44. He's a smart, strong chap who is mostly average for his chapter otherwise, but who is missing a critical point of Toughness that will end up making him easier to shoot in the face. His Demeanor is Calculating, meaning he likes to carefully weigh the positives and negatives of things and is constantly thinking very hard about what to do. He also comes with the Scions of Mars Chapter Demeanor from being a Star Dragon. We'll roll on the Blood Angel Name Table and his name is Sepheran.

Sepheran gets an enormous number of skills right off the bat. Marines have so many skills and talents that when I was running the game, I made a template for that for character sheets because gently caress typing them all out. He's good at Awareness, he knows the chapter's code system, he can climb, he can dodge, he knows a bit about the Imperium, the Astartes, and War, he can hide, he can drive, he can scare people, he's literate, he knows how not to get lost, he knows the SCHOLASTIC LORE of the Codex despite being from a special OC chapter that doesn't follow it (probably so he can make fun of it for being full of truisms like 'When harried the Space Marine drives his enemies back!' rather than anything useful), he can be quiet, he gets a Tactics skill of his choice (likely to do with Space), he knows both normal British and psuedolatin (Low Gothic and High Gothic), and he can track his prey, as well as knowing lots about Aliens for being in the Deathwatch. He's also ambidextrous like all Marines, has training in every single non-Exotic weapon in the setting, has Bulging Biceps (so he can fire heavy weapons like they were rifles), has Heightened Senses of hearing and sight (+10 to non-combat checks with both), has the ability to spend a Fate Point to make an attack or single shot undodgeable, has nerves of steel (reroll failed Pinning tests), can swap weapons as a free action once per turn, has a +10 against Psy powers, halves all Critical damage he takes, and can use his bare fists as a d10+SB Pen0 non-Primitive weapon that makes him count as Armed, because all Marines know martial arts. Whew! That's thousands of EXP worth of abilities. He also has a ton of various abilities related to his Special Magic Organs and I believe I cannot emphasize this often enough, can eat a man's brain to gain his thoughts.

We'll roll a d5 to see what mastery he has, and it looks like Brother Sepheran is a kind and caring Apothecary, a space marine doctor. This means he also starts with Medicae and a powerful healing tool that heals wounds better even if PCs are badly wounded; his Narthecium device will heal someone by double what Medicae would normally do, and counts them as Lightly Wounded at up to 3xTB wounds taken, so for most Marines with their 18-23 Wounds and 8 Toughness Bonus, he can always treat them as lightly wounded. He also gets to pick his choice of super special extra ability: He can reduce Corruption gains by guarding his friends' Geneseeds, he can grant his friends biological weapons to use against the enemy (but only in Squad Mode), or he can heal an extra d5 with every use of medicae, regardless of how badly wounded the character is. He takes the latter. Sepheran is a brilliant young doctor who focuses on saving lives and diving sideways through the air while firing two handguns or elegantly dueling people.

He has 22 Wounds, and 5 Fate. He is ridiculously lucky. As an Apothecary, he isn't bad at any stats (some Marines are bad at various stats) and is good at Weapon Skill, Intelligence, and Perception. Marines pay a ton more EXP for advances: 200, 500, 1000, 1500 for a 'good' stat, 500, 1000, 1500, 2000 for a 'medium' one, 750, 1500, 2000, 5000 for a 'bad' one. Marine skills often cost more, as do talents. For some reason, Sepheran's Chapter skills are extremely cheap. and the Rank 1 Apothecary skills are mostly stuff like Chem Use or Interrogate, so he'll spend 500 on getting his Toughness to acceptable levels, 200 to buff his Int, then 200 on getting Dodge+10 so he can dodge out of the way of our friend Lascannon if he comes knocking. He has not yet mastered the art of two gun fighting, but he is a young space-doctor-duelist-war-king, it will come in time.

As we get further along to gear, squad modes, solo modes, etc, we'll fill these things in for Sepheran, Brilliant Space Doctor Vampire. As for his appearance, we just assume he's hulking, yet extremely beautiful, like something out of an old 90s anime. Basically assume this is a chapter of JoJos.

Next Time: Oh god, so many tables full of things to buy. Also, Careers in more detail.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Night10194 posted:

Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay: Deathwatch and Rites of Battle: Part 4


The random table for names always produces hilarity. It's the X Ys. We roll that we are called the WAR DEATH, which is hilarious, then try again and get the Brothers Sons, which is also hilarious. Finally, on the third try, we get the Star Dragons and that will be acceptable.

This owns.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



The Star Dragons are also a canon chapter about which nothing is known, so by stroke of luck, ideal fodder for something like this.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Cythereal posted:

The Star Dragons are also a canon chapter about which nothing is known, so by stroke of luck, ideal fodder for something like this.

Ahaha their Battle Cry is even FIRE AND FURY like Hostile predicted.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.


The Ultramarines just being taken seriously by GW at their supposed perfection is just pathetic, since one of the few things that gives them any character or flavor is that they almost got wiped out to a man by the Tyranids and it was only some distinctly non-Codex maneuvers that didn't see Macragge turned into a lifeless rock.

Honestly they should have just let some time advance and the original Necrons or Tyranids destroy the galaxy, then reboot the whole thing rather than this craven poo poo they did.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Cythereal posted:

Also, the Dark Angels are based on, no joke, gay dudes (and also medieval knights mixed with mystery cults - they recruit from anywhere they go and their thing is 'we don't care who or what you were, you are now a Dark Angel and nothing else matters' and only very slowly revealing the chapter's history and beliefs as Marines move up the ranks). Their primarch is Lion El'Johnson - consider the openly gay English poet Lionel Johnson whose best known poem is called The Dark Angel, and the Dark Angels call their homeworld The Rock - also the name of a gay bar near GW headquarters in the 80s, supposedly.

40k has historically had an... interesting relationship... with distinct currents of hypermasculine homoeroticism in the setting, especially regarding the Marines.

Tell me about it



40K's gone through so many people that while you can definitely single out specific aspects of the setting as awesome or various unpleasant -isms, it's hard to discuss as a coherent whole except with the way GW presents and markets things.

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



Hooray, surely the Emperor smiles on the auspicious arrival of this bara bishounen warrior-physician!

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion




Deathwatch is just great. It's a lot of work for a GM though, since it's a game the players go into looking to clown on some dudes every session.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Feinne posted:

The Ultramarines just being taken seriously by GW at their supposed perfection is just pathetic, since one of the few things that gives them any character or flavor is that they almost got wiped out to a man by the Tyranids and it was only some distinctly non-Codex maneuvers that didn't see Macragge turned into a lifeless rock.

A running theme is that Marines have two settings where they work. Ridiculous action hero who is not taken seriously at all, or an examination of their weakness and their flaws, because God knows they aren't nearly as good of soldiers as GW's fluff usually makes them out to be. Neither of these are modes that GW writes about Marines in, generally.

And yes, players will be doing a hell of a lot of combat in DW. For instance, and this was playing fairly 'grounded' Marines, I had a session where my squad and I were rescuing a Canoness and a bunch of Hospitallars who'd taken refuge in the Underhive from rebel PDF and their Tau supporters. During the escape, carried out on top of a Rhino, we killed a battletank with a frag grenade, shot down a flier, fought off several platoons of infantry, and threw a Techmarine through a troop transport before getting to the Valkyrie and escaping. And that was with the grounded, sane Marines. That was still an action sequence that was a running gunfight car chase during which we put down an entire small TT army.

The really over the top games are probably even bigger.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Mar 24, 2018

hectorgrey
Oct 14, 2011


gradenko_2000 posted:

I for one would like it if you went into the DMG, because that's really where the bulk of the "no, really, D&D 3rd Edition was about doing old-school dungeon crawling" feel comes through and where I am prepared to die on all the hills possible.

Honestly, I got that impression from the combat example - I mean, they're in a ten feet wide corridor, about to kick in a door, when a random encounter walks around the corner and ganks the mage. The only thing not old school about that is the fact that the mage got back up after the fight was over. I mean, dungeon crawling might not happen as often at higher levels, but at lower levels that's certainly what the game feels like it's about to me.

I'll certainly be doing the DMG at some point (whether before or after the Monster Manual), because I'm planning to go through all three of these books (after which I might move onto the others; some of which help to fix some of the problems with the core rules, others slightly exacerbate them). The main reason for the possible detour was because it would give some context for what the PCs might face in a dungeon.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.


Night10194 posted:

A running theme is that Marines have two settings where they work. Ridiculous action hero who is not taken seriously at all, or an examination of their weakness and their flaws, because God knows they aren't nearly as good of soldiers as GW's fluff usually makes them out to be. Neither of these are modes that GW writes about Marines in, generally.

And yes, players will be doing a hell of a lot of combat in DW. For instance, and this was playing fairly 'grounded' Marines, I had a session where my squad and I were rescuing a Canoness and a bunch of Hospitallars who'd taken refuge in the Underhive from rebel PDF and their Tau supporters. During the escape, carried out on top of a Rhino, we killed a battletank with a frag grenade, shot down a flier, fought off several platoons of infantry, and threw a Techmarine through a troop transport before getting to the Valkyrie and escaping. And that was with the grounded, sane Marines. That was still an action sequence that was a running gunfight car chase during which we put down an entire small TT army.

The really over the top games are probably even bigger.

Like at some level they should really just ditch the tabletop war game and move entirely into poo poo that lets them aggrandize the Spess Marines without there being an underlying game for them to ruin the balance of in favor of their favorite darlings.

Like it's been ages since I played 40k and I'm so glad, because everything I've seen about the last decade of it tells me I would loving hate it.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


The funny thing is, from what I know from people still playing the Tabletop game, it isn't even that Marines are the strongest. It's that they're omnipresent. Every single army has to plan to fight Marines as their main opponent.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.


Night10194 posted:

The funny thing is, from what I know from people still playing the Tabletop game, it isn't even that Marines are the strongest. It's that they're omnipresent. Every single army has to plan to fight Marines as their main opponent.

Like I'd imagine there's still some effort from whoever's trying to keep the game remotely playable to keep them in their box of 'above average in every way but not really able to match specialist troops' because they do work nicely as a 'starter' army for inexperienced players in that niche. The problem though is that they just keep heaping more and more new poo poo on the marines to never give players a strong incentive to switch to something more interesting.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Evil Mastermind posted:

See also Paranoia 5th Edition, aka "the one everyone (including the XP edition book) pretends didn't exist because it was that bad."

If it's your first edition, as it was for me... well, you actually wonder why people love it so much until you read older stuff or read XP.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008



Dawgstar posted:

If it's your first edition, as it was for me... well, you actually wonder why people love it so much until you read older stuff or read XP.
I could do a whole Thing on Paranoia Fifth, but it was basically the edition that didn't just miss the point of the game entirely, it was written at a period where West End Games had nobody on staff who knew how to write comedy. At all.

Plus the art was a few steps beyond "loving terrible".

e: Huh, turns out I already did a bit of a thing and forgot all about it!

Evil Mastermind fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Mar 25, 2018

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Scion: Hero
All Manitou Are Orenda, Or Possibly Vice Versa

The Orenda are two other sons of Winonah, and they are the foundation of the Iroquois pantheon. The Manitou say they are a subset of the Manitou, while the Orenda say the Manitou are a subset of the Orenda. These two sons are the twins Ioskeha and Tawiscara, the Good Mind and the Bad Mind. Ioskeha cares for all the things over the World and all the wholesome things, while Tawiscara cares for what is beneath and what is twisted or dark. Together, they made humanity, who have capacity for both good and bad. Both are required for the World to work, and they have a subtly different pantheon of spirits and Heroes around them than the Manitou. They see the four brothers of the Manitou as rivals, claiming themselves to be the true descendants of Geezhigo-Quae. Sometimes, Winonah doesn't evne show up in their myths. Ioskeha mostly ignores the four brothers, but Tawiscara takes their existence personally. (Honestly, he takes everyone's existence personally.) He tries to cause conflict between them, and between eeveryone else, though he has a particular dislike for Nana'b'oozoo.

Ioskeha is also called Sapling, Good Spirit, Good Mind, Right-Handed Twin and Little Sprout. He is one of the twin sons of Tekawerahkawa, one of the Mantles of Winonah, and he is all that is good about humanity. Legend has it that he fought his twin brother, Tawiscara, in the womb, and this discord killed their mother in childbirth. The twin were raised by their grandmother, Sky Woman, but Ioskeha never really got along with her, as she believed Tawiscara's lies about him. He and his brother made the Iroquois, and added to the things in the World, with Ioskeha making all things of light and above the World, as well as giving humans their noble qualities. He tries to be the best representaiton he can be. He was given the knowledge of bows, maize and growing, and he's done his best to pass that on. He is a great creator, but deeply regrets never getting to know his mother before her death. While he tries to avoid dealing with them, this remains a sore spot between him and the four brothers, partially fueled by Tawiscara, who tries to convince him that they somehow stole their mother away. If the four brothers fight Tawiscara, he will typically intervene to stop them and deal with his twin himself - only he has the right to punish Tawiscara, and no other. Scions of Ioskeha tend to be very nice people, who do the right thing no matter what. They tend to have a need to create and to serve, as well. Ioskeha will not coddle them, and he makes sure they get the hard lessons he thinks they need. He encourages them to volunteer at soup kitchens or build homes for the poor as well as hunting monsters, and many of his children peacefully protest corporations and governments that harm the land or people. His Callings are Creator, Leader and Warrior, and his Purviews are Forge, Sun, Sky, Order, Beasts (All Diurnal Mammals, Birds, Insects and Fish), Health and Passion (All Light Emotions).

Tawiscara is also called Flint, Bad Mind, Left-Handed Twin and Molsem. He is the other twin, and he's a sociopath. He is driven by a compulsion to do terrible things, and even his birth was wrong, for he so hated his twin that he made his own exit from the womb, killing his mother. He is a potent creator, who made many things in the World that Kitchi-Manitou did not - one for every thing of light that his brother made. He is eternally dying, but he never dies, embodying death instead. He is too ugly to look at, resembling a diseased man. He is driven to do that which is unhealthy for humans, but he does care about them, in his own way. He cares about their wrong choices, their dark moods, their pain, their rage. He wants people to experience that dark side of life. He gave the world his gifts - bats fly at night and are content, snakes envenom prey and are content, so why does humanity resist his gifts that make them stronger? He especially loves a good drama, and also likes daytime reality TV. The only thing that he hates more than Ioskeha getting in his way is when the pretenders that claim also to be Sky Woman's grandchildren show up. Any time he can bring harm or chaos to the four brothers, he does. Many of Tawiscara's Scions are also antisocial and attract trouble. However, they too are creators, and often work together to engage in elaborate schemes or become focused on doing whatever they can without thinking on if they should. The fighting between Tawiscara and Ioheska, as well as their children, is so great that most Manitou try to avoid them, as engaging either one means the other will also turn on you. Tawiscara's Callings are Creator, Trickster and Warrior. His Purviews are Chaos, Deception, Darkness, Death, Passion (All Dark Emotions), Forge and War.

The Manitou are, by default, invisible. They coexist in the World but are largely non-physical as well. Some, however, are inherently physical and can be seen. That's just how things are - some things can be seen and touched, others can't. That's why you should treat all places with respect, because humans run into Manitou all the time. In general, it's a bit harder to find the Terra Incognitae where the more powerful Manitou live, or might take special tricks or determination to get to, but they are still part of the World, not somewhere outside. The rivers are known to have secret entrances to places where the water spirits, Memegwesi, live, as do tribes of Nibiinaabe, a sort of mermaid-like creature. Of course, some parts of Manitou cosmology are far enough removed that you might consider them other realms - mainly, the Skyworld and the Undereworld. Most Manitou choose, however, to stay incarnated physically in the World, enjoying the experiences and guiding their children. The exception is Cheeby-aub-oozoo, who lives in the Underworld, and of course Kitchi-Manitou never really manifests anywhere.

Skyworld is said to be somewhere above the clouds, or possibly on the moon. It's full of Manitou that humans have never met. Only Geezhigo-Quae left and came to the World. It is said that in Skyworld, there is a great tree that reaches from the cloudy lower reaches up into the stars, and it was a hole by the roots of that tree that allowed Geezhigo-Quae to descend, or perhaps fall, into the World. Getting to Skyworld is hard if you can't fly, and even then, going there without permission from Kitchi-Manitou would be wicked indeed. The Underworld, well, it's literally under the World, accessed via deep lakes or underwater caves. It's full of dead people and weird Manitou that don't talk to the living. Cheeby-aub-oozoo is the ogimauh here, as the locals were so impressed by his ability to speak to the Manitou and teach humans how to listen, they decided he'd be the best intermediary and leader for them. Tawiscara also lives down here, somewhere.

Both the Underworld and Skyworld were once entirely inaccessible to humans, but the modern age has changed that, thanks to technology. Now, humans might actually accidentally stumble into Skyworld via the moon, or the Underworld underground. The Manitou of these places have nothing to do with humans and don't care about them. Some may not even know humans exist. Others want doors opened so they can pour out to cause chaos and terror. Humans, more than ever, risk disturbing Manitou they should not. The Underworld Manitou sometimes work to guide the dead or keep the living and dead separate, but there's also plenty of monsters down there that'd love to rampage - and Tawiscara's always making more of them.

Because the Manitou name all of their divine and semi-divine beings Manitou, they try to respect all of them, even Titans. They assume all were made by Kitchi-Manitou for some purpose. However, some Manitou are given to such a terrible need to destroy and befoul that, well, they have to be stopped. These are titanspawn. Not all are so extreme - some are just dangerous by nature, and are typically just checked and stopped when they cause trouble but are otherwise allowed to go about their jobs. Others, however, most be destroyed. Giants, for example, sometimes have tribes that go a-raiding and try to destroy cities, and must be slain, as the wendigo are. The most notable Titan of the Manitou is Ae-pungishimook, called the West Wind or Death. He lives in a cave somewhere in the west, and is more potent than any other giant, destroying whatever he likes. He is the father of the four brothers and the rapist of Winonah. He has a very poor relationship with his kids, except for Maudjee-Kawiss, and he's never even tried to get to know Nana'b'oozoo, who hates him for that. Once, Nana'b'oozoo tried to get revenge, but he was far too weak to beat Ae-pungishimook. Still, he impressed his father, who gave him the pipe, or pawaugun, as a sign of respect. Ae-Pungishimook's Purview is Death, and his Virtues are Rapacity and Dominance.

The most common titanspawn is the Wendigo. Or Windigo, Widjigo, Windego...or, in plural, the windigoag. See, no one really knows where they come from. They're gigantic cannibals that exist only to destroy corporeal life. They are most active in winter, and they feast on the flesh of their victims. They have a special hatred for Nana'b'oozoo and his Scions, as he is said to have wiped out an entire tribe of over 40 windigoag by himself, drowning them in a lake. (Windigoag can't swim.) Other dangerous titanspawn Manitou include Mishibizhiw, the Water Lynx or Underwater Panther - a sort of cross between a cougar and a dragon with the antlers of a door, sawtooth ridges on its back and a prehensile tail made of copper. It hunts anyone in its waters and is said to be the thing that actually killed Cheeby-aub-oozoo. It can sometimes be the size of a cougar, and sometimes it is immense.

Then you've got Misiginebig, or Mishi-Ginebig, the Great Serpent, or Wewiwilemita Manetu. These are a kind of giant snake that lives in lakes and eats people. There's a lot of them, and they're all very malicious. They are the enemies of the Animikii, the thunderbirds, who go out of their way to hunt down and kill the snakes so they don't find the thunderbird nests and eat the baby thunderbirds. And then, of course, there's Aniwye, or Aniwo'ye, Mishi-Zhigaag or just the Giant Skunk. It's a man-eating skunk of immense size that likes to kill people with its horrific musk, which sickens and withers people. Nana'b'oozoo found it once and sort of killed it by shattering it into all the skunks of the world, but its essence remains and, sometimes, it manages to assemble enough of itself to form again. Scions of the four brothers keep an eye for evidence of this, to put it down before it can figure out how to absorb all the many skunks into one giant monster again.

The chief Primordial of the pantheon is Kitchi-Manitou, the Great Mystery, who created all things and Manitou. The World began with the vision and dream of Kitchi-Manitou, sometimes called Gitche-Manitou or Chi-Manidoo. In this dream, they saw all that could be, and immediately set about making it happen. Once it was done creating...everything, it left things to the created beings so that they could in turn create and grow and shape the World. Humans, in particular, inherited the ability to dream, as Kitchi-Manitou dreamed. This lets them find their purpose and what job of creation is theirs. Sometimes, Kitchi-Manitou will give power to a mortal via a dream, creating Scions. These Scions are impulsively drawn to find their place, driven by the dream within. They must always either create or destroy something. Thus, Kitchi-Manitou ensures the world stays in motion and the people are protected against bad things. The Primordial never incarnates, but will manifest to humans that seek guidance via dreams, or via messengers and portents to other Manitou. Their Callings are Creator, Judge and Sage, and their Purviews are Fortune, Stars, Prosperity, Sun, Darkness and Forge.

Next time: Midewiwin, the faith of the Manitou.

Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Mar 25, 2018

DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

Fats Dominar is on the case




when I played deathwatch I was a Mantis Legion librarian. I actually had a reasonable flaw, to whit, crippling guilt that my Chapter has briefly rebelled and a lack of trust from Imperial institutions

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Evil Mastermind posted:

I could do a whole Thing on Paranoia Fifth, but it was basically the edition that didn't just miss the point of the game entirely, it was written at a period where West End Games had nobody on staff who knew how to write comedy. At all.

Plus the art was a few steps beyond "loving terrible".

e: Huh, turns out I already did a bit of a thing and forgot all about it!

That all scans. I remember there was an entire adventure book that was mostly an extended and unfunny parody of Vampire: The Masquerade.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008



Dawgstar posted:

That all scans. I remember there was an entire adventure book that was mostly an extended and unfunny parody of Vampire: The Masquerade.

Creatures of the Nightcycle. It also had a bit that was an unfunny parody of Mortal Kombat. Which is to say, stupid versions of the Mortal Kombat characters would come out, then be introduced with their Paranoia-style names, and the joke was that they were the Mortal Kombat characters.

hectorgrey
Oct 14, 2011


Dawgstar posted:

That all scans. I remember there was an entire adventure book that was mostly an extended and unfunny parody of Vampire: The Masquerade.

How do you even make an unfunny parody of VtM? I mean, there's so much good material there...

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



hectorgrey posted:

How do you even make an unfunny parody of VtM? I mean, there's so much good material there...
"Hey remember that game? Well vampires suck. Literally!" ad nauseum.

Desiden
Mar 13, 2016

Mindless self indulgence is SRS BIZNS


Night10194 posted:

The funny thing is, from what I know from people still playing the Tabletop game, it isn't even that Marines are the strongest. It's that they're omnipresent. Every single army has to plan to fight Marines as their main opponent.

That was certainly the case when I last played, some 4 editions ago. Ironically back then, it meant that the strongest forces for quite a while were the eldar, just because of how much stuff they could pack in for relatively cheap that negated power armor level armor saves. Not sure how the meta has gone since then (though a quick googling says that eldar look to be on top right now again), but generally marines were always competitive but often not top of the heap.

The "no flaws" thing is just weird to me. The older books pretty much always noted how many of the geneorgans for chapters were screwed up or non-functional. They even pointed out that the only one that *had* to work for a space marine was the black carapace, which let them interface with their armor (though if they couldn't do one of the others, the chapter would die out from lack of new geneseed material, so that was crucial too). That certainly made a lot more sense in the early days, when half the artwork was of kind of stubby rotund marines, who only shot as well as your average ork did, and whose intro scenario in the core book was about a missle in their base misfiring and almost wiping out the chapter. There was always a lot of talk about how awesome they were, but my takeaway from the old RT book was that was more about how lovely the general quality of people were in the 41st millennium as much as anything. They were basically space-chavs in hand me down armor and biomods, who were "superior" only insomuch as your average human was a clusterfuck of mutation, insanity, corruption, or who knows what else.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Hostile V posted:

"Hey remember that game? Well vampires suck. Literally!" ad nauseum.

And the pregens names were all based off the clans' names. Like Gang-R-ELL. Wolfcastle That's The Joke.jpg here.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008



Dawgstar posted:

And the pregens names were all based off the clans' names. Like Gang-R-ELL. Wolfcastle That's The Joke.jpg here.
Well, again, that's the "humor" level 5e was at. It was like those lovely "_______ Movie" movies that were coming out every two weeks a while back, where the joke is "hey, it's <celebrity/character from pop culture>!"

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.





BASIC MECHANICS

Or

Extruded d6 Dice Pool-Flavored Snacky Time Kelp Chip Product


The backbone of the system in building a dice pool called a NODE (which stands for Number Of DicE). Anything that you could do that is challenging requires you building a NODE from a Stat and a Skill relevant to the task at hand. Roll the dice and count any 5s or 6s as successes; itís your bog-standard pool of d6 mechanics with a few twists but you basically want to argue that your NODE is good for the roll based on the moment. For example: your average use of a laser pistol would be Violence+Guns. Our Troubleshooter Karen has a 3 in Guns, but heís not super great at using Violence thanks to chargen shenanigans. If Karen wanted a bigger pool of dice he would have to use his Guns skill creatively such as declaring he was aiming carefully for a bank-shot or distracting the target with a shout before shooting. The GM is always allowed to veto this suggestion and other players can suggest what would work as well. The GM is also free to add or remove dice based on ingenuity, circumstances, equipment, solar eclipse, etc. Itís a system youíve seen before so letís look at the twists.

Negative Skills

Everyone has five skills theyíre bad at but youíre still allowed to roll them. Using a negative skill lets you amass a pool of dice as if it was a positive skill, so if Karen was going to try to Chutzpah+Charm on someone that would still be a good pool of 7 dice. The drawback of using a negative skill is that any roll on this pool that isnít a 5 or a 6 eats a success per non-success. With a 7-dice pool, Karen is likely going to get 2.3333 successes and 4.6667 non-successes. The book says negative successes should be considered by the GM as an invitation for Fun Stuff to happen. The average player is probably going to just write that stat off as dead and never bother to improve it or use it. A better system would be to remove the non-success negation aspect and instead just let the players do things at a cost PBTA-style.


"Just think before you answer/there is no correct answer/so don't shoot/I'm a man"

Computer Dice

Say Karen wants to disable a machine by beating on it with a spanner. That would likely be a Violence+Operations check, but Karen has a 0 in Violence and a 0 in Operations, making that a NODE of 0. To get around characters being unable to do certain tasks, all dice rolls also roll what is called the Computer Dice which is a special d6 with an icon of Friend Computer on it. Karenís Brains+Guns pool would be NODE 5+1 Computer Dice, Chutzpah+Charm would be NODE 7+1 Computer Dice and his Violence+Mechanics pool would be a flat 1 Computer Dice. The Computer Dice can be used to gain successes, but if it comes up with the Friend Computer iconÖthat means that Friend Computer has decided to butt in on whatever youíre doing to try and help. And FC sure has a bad grasp of what help means. Regardless of success or failure on the roll, FC will generally immediately broadcast something distracting and startling into your brain/vision that is relevant to the moment at hand. The book has the example of an internal schematic of a bombís wiring mechanism blocking out a Troubleshooterís vision the moment he cuts the wire. Alternately, the Computer Dice is an excuse to shake up the moment and make something else chaotic happen that rattles the Troubleshooter. The shock of the sudden intrusion of helpfulness/whatever else costs the Troubleshooter a Moxie Point. Speaking of, Moxie!

Moxie Points

Moxie represents your stress levels but Iím going to keep referring to it as a Sanity Meter. Your maximum Moxie is determined by character creation which is why itís generally a bad idea to start with three. While you may (will) be lacking in higher Skills, Moxie also doubles as Fate Points/Willpower. You can buy extra dice for a roll at a 1:1 ratio, you can reroll an entire pool of dice once after a failure and Moxie is also used to activate Mutant Powers. Moxie is also automatically lost whenever Friend Computer intrudes due to a roll on the Computer Dice or whenever a Troubleshooter witnesses something that shocks and shakes them (upsetting images, scenes of carnage, taking heavy damage, doing bad things, stuff that makes them feel unhappy).



Fortunately, itís not too hard to regain Moxie because any Moxie spent after character creation can come back. A solid sleep and a good breakfast will restore one Moxie. If you donít have that kind of time, the Happiness Officer can make a Brains+Science roll vs. a TN of 2 to administer a stimulant that restores one Moxie per extra success. If you need it ASAP and have the resources to burn or you donít trust anyone in your party with a needle, thereís always paying 50 XP per point of Moxie to have happy thoughts/neurochemistry stabilizers downloaded directly into your brain. If you need it ASAP and donít have the resources at all, thereís always dying. If you die with at least one point of Moxie left, your next clone comes back with all Moxie restored.



So, what happens when you run out of Moxie? Wellllllll.

Losing It

Zero Moxie means that the Troubleshooter is no longer keeping things together and is in the grips of a breakdown. This will generally lead to the Troubleshooter A: disassociating between their body and their actions, B: engaging in poor impulse control, C: feeling euphoric and motivated to do something specific, D: feeling unbridled generic/focused rage or E: all or some of these. This manifests as either the GM telling the player what their Troubleshooter is currently doing to act out/misbehave/shut down in some way or the player taking one of the descriptive adjectives and turning one/some/all of them up to 11 for Wacky Hijinks. If the player doesnít play ball, the GM is encouraged to sidle them with some other undesired activity.

Whatís important is that zero Moxie/Losing It does not stop unless stopped and the player is told to just loving lean into the madness and run full-tilt into trouble to make it fun. The two surefire ways to stop a clone who is currently Losing It is to either A: subdue them in some form and hit them with a sedative, B: download more Moxie into your brain mid-freak out or C: simply kill them. The game doesnít describe how a sedative works but letís just go out on a limb and say that itís the same as an administered stimulant where extra successes restore Moxie. Killing them is faster and the next clone comes back with 1d6+1 Moxie that canít exceed their maximum Moxie.

COMBAT

The most important part of combat is that there are now Action Cards and the player will generally have four at their disposal at a given moment, give or take. You can only play one at a time (on your action or someone elseís) and you flip it over when you want to use it. Each card has an Action Order (the time in which the card can be used), level (only found on equipment, adds dice to your NODE) and a description telling you what the card does. Cards are vital to the flow of action and the new initiative system which the game calls DYNAMO, which stands forÖ

[sighs] Dynamic Yet Narrative Action Melee Order. Sure.

DYNAMO

Actions under DYNAMO function as either a Basic Action or a Card Action. Basic is just a Stat+Skill action while a Card Action is exactly what it sounds like.
  • If you want to take an action this round, you have to place a card face-down in front of you.
  • The GM counts backwards from 10 to 0 where each number is a moment in the Action Order. Act on your number.
  • Hijinks ensue, the meaning of which will be explained in a minute.
  • Actions get resolved, next round begins.
Now, Hijinks Ensuing take place on steps two and steps three because hooboy. Do you remember playing the game Bullshit when you were in middle school? What if that applied to a tabletop RPG.
  • You can either act on your number or act on a number through a bluff.
  • You can bluff and go on whatever number you want to shoot first or whatever.
  • You can call someoneís bluff once a round. The person attempting to act will then flip their card.
  • If you are wrongfully challenged and successfully defend, the challenger must discard a card from their hand.
  • If you were bluffing and got caught, you must discard your exposed card and can only take a Basic Action at the end of the round. The challenger gets two free turns this round: when they would normally take an action and the moment they complete their challenge.
  • Once resolved, the people acting during that Action Order number roll dice and such.
  • If thereís a tie between people going legitimately on the same number, the first person to say the full name of the other playerís character goes first. If all flub, nobody gets to act this round.
  • This never applies to NPCs, NPCs just go when the GM says they do.


We have already established that Reboot is all about fostering a negative atmosphere. Continuing to enforce this through card bluffing to keep the agitation and abrasion fresh is an awful idea. Then thereís the fact that you do not have to use your Action Card. You can choose to flip your card and play it, you can choose to return your card to your hand and take a Basic Action or if the card says Action on the back you can discard the card and take a Basic Action with +1 dice to your NODE. Again, you do not need to play your card at all, you only must have a card at all to play to engage in any sort of combat. Out of cards? Tough luck! You also must burn cards to defend in melee if the enemy attack connects. You canít defend at a distance and you canít defend without sacrificing a card.

How do you get more cards? Depends on the GM. They recommend either drawing 4 cards at the start of combat and discarding them when done to use them in fights only, or to draw back to the full number when done. Itís up to the GM if the cards can have effects on the world outside of combat.
  • Action Cards are narrative to some extent and grant dice bonuses depending on how descriptive you are.
  • Reaction Cards do not have an Action Order number and are, well, reactions. They can be played A: before a roll if they modify the NODEís pool, B: after the dice are rolled if they modify an outcome or C: after the GM/player doing a thing has described their action but before someone else does something if itís some other Reaction. Reaction Cards can be played even if youíre dead or somewhere else.
  • Equipment Cards function like Action Cards except their number is dependent on Equipment Level+Relevent Stat. Burning the card for a dice bonus to your NODE means the equipment is destroyed and we all know that destroying mission-critical equipment is treasonous.
  • Mutant Powers require an expenditure of at least point of Moxie but you can pay more Moxie for a bigger effect and more dice to add to your NODE. When flipped, the only person who gets to see the Mutant Power on the other side is the GM and you never discard your Mutant Power if caught in a bluff.
And because this book wants to have its cake and eat it too (and is chronically afraid of displeasing people/groups), there is in fact an alternate initiative system.

Simple Combat Order
  • The person to the left of the GM states their action this round and resolve their actions. This continues around the table until everyone has acted.
  • NPCs act whenever the GM says they do.
  • When the round is complete, the next round starts with the player to the right of the GM.
  • Thatís it. Please donít hate us. Please like our game.


OTHER MECHANICAL COMBAT STUFF

Damage


Damage depends on successes that exceed the target number to hit someone. Technically speaking I think if you match the target number exactly that means you donít do damage which is something Iíd rectify to become ďa tie is a minimum of one damageĒ. Damage is measured in cumulative levels in a simplification of XPís damage system that I do agree with: Unharmed, Hurt, Injured, Maimed and Dead.
  • Unharmed is the natural order of things for your clone: generally physically okay, mild neuroses.
  • Hurt reduces all NODES by 1 due to general discomfort.
  • Injured means that thereís enough pain to substantially mess with your cloneís problem-solving skills, reducing NODE by 2,
  • Maimed means the clone is banged up enough to lose function of a part of their body (finger, limb, ear, cardiovascular system). You need immediate medical attention, resulting in a -3 to NODE. For every round you go without attention, roll a dice and die on a 1.
drat shame that Vaporized doesnít exist anymore. Anyway. Damage is cumulative. If youíre Maimed and youíre Hurt, that bumps the damage up to Dead. You can jump from Unharmed to Maimed or Unharmed to Dead or Hurt to Maimed or etc. depending on how many levels of damage you take in one go.

Fixing damage requires a First Aid Kit and a Brains+Science check. Each success lowers the clone's current state of damage, but missing a limb will generally require a specialized medical kit that has regeneration chemicals. Death is generally followed by having a freshly vat-grown clone delivered ASAP via some kind of method appropriate to the moment. Clones are once again considered to be a separate person from the last Troubleshooter in cases of treason and will keep the XP, memberships, powers and memories of their last life. You also get your gun and clothes back but make sure you pick up your old stuff because that won't necessarily be replaced.

THOUGHTS

Man do I dislike DYNAMO. All previous criticisms of their waffling apply. I will admit to being so put-off the first go around at how bad character creation was, I didn't even bother to try to figure out how the card system worked and snottily derided it as useless. Well, I will admit to being wrongfully judgmental in the moment. It's not the best card system but it's not the worst and the initiative system is the bad part of it. And honestly, despite admitting that the damage system has now taken a turn for the better, I'm not super wowed by these mechanics. They're generic, they're serviceable, they're forgettable except for the twists and I don't feel there are enough twists to spice it up. We'll get into the cards proper in a while so hold your questions and criticisms until the proper time. For now, just shake your head at the idea that non-successes should eat successes and how probability is a cruel mistress.



NEXT TIME: the end of the player's guide. What's in the end of the player's guide? Mostly equipment and stuff such as how your brain software works and how XP functions.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Oh hey, "Redacted!" I, too, read the SCP pages!

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me



This version of Paranoia really seems like they should have made one of those pvp board games instead. Perhaps a random win condition--"the trouble that needs shooting"--that can be met as a team or individually, but also players get victory points for outing others as traitors or removing other players from the game. A board game would at least be over relatively quickly instead of fostering multi session animosity.

marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Mar 25, 2018

Simian_Prime
Nov 6, 2011

When they passed out body parts in the comics today, I got Cathy's nose and Dick Tracy's private parts.

marshmallow creep posted:

This version of Paranoia really seems like they should have made one of those pvp board games instead. Perhaps a random win condition--"the trouble that needs shooting"--that can be met as a team or individually, but also players get victory points for outing others as traitors or removing other players from the game. A board game would at least be over relatively quickly instead of fostering multi session animosity.

Betrayal at Alpha Complex

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.




Grimey Drawer

"Okay, Bob tripped the Message from Friend Computer, in the food vat room, with... the blue laser tube. Everyone take your secret orders booklets and go to different rooms to figure out what you're supposed to be doing now. Bob, mark a clone because you were vaporized as a Commie."

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008



Nessus posted:

Oh hey, "Redacted!" I, too, read the SCP pages!
Nah, that's an old Paranoia bit that they've always done. Often on forms the players were expected to fill out.

Tibalt
May 14, 2017

What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee


Simian_Prime posted:

Betrayal at Alpha Complex
Seems like it would work better than Betrayal at Baldur's Gate... a lot better.

Der Waffle Mous
Nov 27, 2009

In the grim future, there is only commerce.


Mors Rattus posted:

Scion: Hero
All Manitou Are Orenda, Or Possibly Vice Versa

Like I know its Scion but this is still really goddamn weird to see.



Also, about Sky Woman.

she is the moon~

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Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Evil Mastermind posted:

Well, again, that's the "humor" level 5e was at. It was like those lovely "_______ Movie" movies that were coming out every two weeks a while back, where the joke is "hey, it's <celebrity/character from pop culture>!"

Yeah. I picked it up after hearing stories of Paranoia for years. Just years. It was the first game people told me stories about that wasn't D&D. "Oh, man, I remember my character was volunteered to test these magnetic rocket-powered roller skates. The only problem was the magnet was the same polarity on each skate!" And this seemed funny. Then I got 5th and decided that the game's players must have worked really hard to put the humor in as the book had only the roughest grasp. (Fortunately with XP I found out it was just that edition, or well, at the time it was and got to play in actual good adventures like the updated 'Me and My Shadow Mark IV.'

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