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Just Dan Again
Dec 16, 2012

Adventure!


I remember skimming the splats for Beast last year and thinking that it might be interesting if they gave players something cool to do, but that it would have to be a pretty darn compelling something if one of the examples of a playable character was an old woman who fed off of children's terror.

It sounds like the best they could come up with was "Yeah, you're an awful monster with awful monster friends, but there are these Hero jerks who think they're better than you! Doesn't that make you mad?"

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Asimo
Sep 23, 2007



The depressing thing is, yeah, like mentioned there's totally a lot of ways to spin old monster myths. The blatant example is looking over the assorted female monsters in Greek myths and how it's trivially easy to give them feminist readings because they were often transformed and murdered for such horrible reasons like "dared to speak back to a man god" or "had the temerity to get raped in a temple". And it's hardly unique to Greek myth too, almost every mythology has some monster or antagonist who were hated for something that is totally sympathetic to modern perspectives. And of course classical heroes were often complete assholes and murderers on their own, that doesn't even take much reinterpretation.

I haven't given Beast a proper reading so I don't want to over criticize it, but the bits I have seen and reviews from people I trust definitely makes it sound like the author never even considered methods like this to make the protagonists even vaguely sympathetic, and that's a drat shame.

Adnachiel
Oct 21, 2012




Part 4: And the rest


Lady Allison Chaucer (13)

“Ally” was born somewhere in Wiltshire to English nobility. She’s super rich and could have easily been one of the most popular girls in Coventry if it weren’t for the fact that she loves gossip and rumors. This trait is not displayed in the comics. There’s no explanation for why her hair is so violently anime.

Ally is an Insider with the Busy Body and Titled talents, the The Sight heritage, and the Natural Telepath ability. She’s has a D4 Body, a D10 Magic, and a D8 everything else with 26 mundane points (some of which are missing because her Garden bonus wasn’t printed on accident), 21 magical points, and 20 magic ranks. (Highest is Divination and Time and Space with 4.) Her signature spell, Spy, is a Divination 2 spell that lets her watch people through her magic mirror, which gives her +1 to Divination spells, can shrink to pocket size, and has a spirit with Mysticism 7 in it. She also has a silver streak broom and a custom gold wand that gives her +1 to Time and Space spells and can store 2 zap.


Prudence Duncan (13)

Born in Kokabrah, Australia (which is not a real place) to ranchers, “Pru” lived a very sheltered life before coming to Coventry. As a result, Janette and Co are her first friends. She is known as the “smart” kid in the school and the person you want to go to if you need help with assignments. She’s also kind of naïve. She hates not having homework.

Pru is, you guessed it, an Insider with the Brainiac and Goody-Goody talents, the Oracle heritage, and the Natural and Chanter abilities. She has a D6 Social, D8 Will, D10+1Mind, D10 Magic, and D4 Body and Senses. For skills she has 31 mundane, 37 magical, and 24 magic ranks. (She has 2s and 3s in everything.) Her signature spell is a Healing 3 one that heals 10 points of damage. She has a “bewitched basic” broom, a book of knowledge that can give a +1 to any roll but Casting when used, a custom rustic wand that gives +1 to Elementalism spells and +1 to “MTR range, light, comucopia (sic)”, and Socrates. When he’s nearby, she gets a +1 to Social and Cryptozoology rolls.


Princess Nephra Batu (13)

Nephra, if you remember, was mentioned in passing on her mom, Queen Zuri of Wanobi’s, sheet in the core. Now we get one for her. Her bio isn’t all that extensive: she’s a princess, she’s spoiled and expects the best, nearly everyone shuts up when she’s pissed, but she’s loyal to her friends and will back you up and all of the other things people add to character bios when they need to fill space and let people know that a character is a good person.

Nephra is a Sorceress with the Drama Queen and Titled talents, the Hexer heritage, and the Caller ability. She has a D6 Body, D10 Magic, and D8 everything else. For skills, she has 31 mundane, 36 magical, and 29 magic ranks. (Her highest is Curse with 4.) Her signature spell, “Grandmother’s Curse”, is a spell of an unknown type that gives the target a -4 penalty to all rolls and slowly does 15 damage to them. (It is never fatal, however.) She has a magic carpet, a sun king amulet (spend a zap to summon her guardian), and an ebony hoop wand (“grants Nephra social rolls”, +1 Elementalism, +1 to duration and damage).


Miako/Mako Matsu (13)

Miako is a “majo” (sic), one of the witches who has served her Tokyo-based family’s ninja clan for centuries. Unfortunately, a rival clan killed hers, leaving her in the care of her older witch sister. For her safety and to keep her from trying to get revenge, her sister sent her to Coventry when she was 10. Unfortunately, she still wants to do it and is just biding her time before she can get back and start slicing heads. (She has no ranks in Alteration so she can’t really do it the typical Witch Girls way.) She likes anime and Pocky, because of course. She would fit right in in a bad Naruto fanfic.

Miako is an Insider with the Calm and Warrior talents, the “Medative” heritage, and no abilities. For attributes, she has a D6 Social, D10 Will and Magic, and D8 everything else. For skills, she has 62 mundane (!!!), 17 magical, and 28 magic ranks. (Highest is Illusion with 4.) Her signature spell is “Ninja Vanish”, an Illusion 4 spell that lets her hide from all senses and is probably the only reason why Illusion is her highest magic type. For equipment, she has a jade necklace (+1 to Resist Magic and lets her ignore 2 points of damage) and a “magic girl” wand, which, along with giving her +1 to spell damage, lets her change her outfit into her ninja one and turns into a “ninja sword” (presumably a ninjato, but considering how the rest of the character is, I imagine Harris was thinking of a katana) that does “+4 damage (a total of 11 damage in the hand of Miako).


Denora Desade (50)

Oh, hello there.

Denora is one of the characters from The Shrinking Sorceress, the transformation Geocities ezine that the game is based on. In the game, she is the major antagonist for this section of the setting; always trying to gently caress with Helena and her family because she’s evil and the two were roommates at Coventry, which she is now a Board of Trustees member of. She is also the Great High Witch of the western United States and a high-ranking member of the Highbinders, earning her the nickname " the Wicked Witch of the West Coast”. (Great High Witches, if you remember, are elected by the WWC’s Council of 13. Which should tell you a lot about how they all lean politically.) There’s some other things to her background too, but they’re not in this book. Her character motivation is Allison’s copy-pasted. (“Get all the juicy gossip and make her family proud of her”.)

A couple of the comics in the book are entirely about her. They are basically her arguing with Helena and owning mundane men in various ways. One of which includes, to add some variety to things, turning a guy into a match to light her cigar.



She also set a guy’s car on fire while his family was still inside because he dared to ask her for her insurance info when she ran into him.



That guy will come up later.

Denora is an Outsider (though she’ll claim she’s a Sorceress if you ask) with the Queen Bee and Wicked talents, the Transmuter heritage, and the Highbinder and Wards abilities. (I’m starting to suspect that Coventry is not a good environment for kids with ego issues. This is the second evil character it’s churned out.) For attributes, she has a D8 Will, D12+5 Magic, D10 Mind and Social, and D6 Body and Senses. For skills, she has 49 mundane, 52 magical, and 40 magic ranks. (Highest is Alteration with 7, of course.) Her signature spell is “Cigar”. It’s Alteration 4. Guess what it does. Her equipment includes a car that can turn into a credit card and never needs fuel or maintenance, and a cigar holder that acts as her wand and gives her +1 to damage, duration, and range MTR and targets -1 to Resist Magic.


Claudia Desade (13)

Yes, someone, willingly or not, had his dick inside Denora long enough for her to fall pregnant with this little hellspawn. Claudia is also a former Shrinking Sorceress character. (Though back then, she had Janette’s look.) As you’d expect, she is basically a mini version of her mother. Who, thanks to her position on the Board of Trustees, was able to get Claudia enrolled into Coventry when she was only 3 years old (and became an Initiate at 9). Far younger than the usual starting age of 6. Because of her young age, Claudia had to constantly prove herself and was picked on, leading her to become a very driven person and the self-appointed wicked witch of her dorm hall. (Her mom probably encouraged this too.) She stood unopposed for 3 years until Janette came and refused to take her bullshit. Despite being a year away from high school, she dresses like I did back in Kindergarten when my mother picked my clothes, short hair and all. (By the way, Coventry does have uniforms. But the main characters usually aren’t wearing them in the art.)

Claudia is an Insider with the Queen Bee and Temper talents, the Prodigy heritage, and the Caller and Highbinder abilities. For attributes, she has a D4 Body, D6 Senses, D10 Mind, D12 Magic, and D8 Will and Social. For skills, she has 36 mundane, 27 magical, and 35 magic ranks. Her signature spell is “Monster Maker”, a Conjuration 3 spells that lets her create 1 to 2 foot monsters that do her bidding. (This is something of a hobby of hers, if the comic is to be believed.) For equipment, she has a Black Racer broom, a bigger bag, and a custom magician wand that gives her +1 to Casting Alteration and Conjuration spells and +1 to range MTR. In terms of pure numbers, she’s on par with Lucinda. Though Lucinda’s bullshit rule-ignoring items probably still have her beat.


Jennifer Beaudeux (13)

Born in New Orleans, Jennifer is a tomboy bully who likes B-movies and is friends with Claudia. That’s it. Her hair is also violently anime. She looks like she should be fighting saiyans.

Jennifer is a Gothique with the Lacky and Urchin talents, the Zappy Fingers heritage, and no abilities. Her attritubes are an equal spread of D6s (Mind, Will, and Social) and D8s. She has 41 mundane skill points (with a lot of 3s), only 8 magical skill ones (a 5 in Casting and a 3 in Mysticism), and 13 magic ranks. (Highest is Offense with 4.) Her signature spell is “Boomer”, an Offense 4 ball of green energy that does “up to 15 points of damage to some or all targets in range or .” For equipment, she has a Bewitched Basic broom and a black crystal wand.


Pavari Suraiya (13)

Pavari was born to poor mundane parents in the poorest part of New Deli (sic), India where she had to steal and beg for a living because poor. Despite being only 13, her powers manifested when she was 17, which caused her parents to sell her to the local sorceress because poor. The witch took pity on her and sent her to Coventry. She hangs out with Claudia and Jennifer and wants to be the most popular girl in school. Her roommate is Illyanna Alexandra, who does not have a sheet.

Pavari is an Outsider with the Entertainer and Busy Body talents, the Conjurer heritage, and no abilities. She has a D10 in Magic, D8s in Mind and Social, and D6s (with a D6+1 in Senses) in everything else. She has 38 mundane skill points (again, with a lot of 3s), 8 magical points (5 in Casting, 3 in Mysticism like Jennifer), and 17 magic ranks (highest is Conjuration and Mentalism with 4). Her signature spell is “Mists of Fear”, an Illusion 3 spell that creates an area that manifests anyone who walks into its worst fears as an illusion. For equipment, she has a flying carpet and a standard wand.


Titania Morganne (1,532)

Titania has been known as many figures in Irish and Arthurian mythology, including Morgan Le Fey, “Morganna”, and “The Morgan” (sic). Despite being vilified by a bunch of loving stupid mundanes who are stupid, she has actually been working to improve the lives of them and otherkin. “The Camelot Experiment”, which includes working with the immortal Merlin to make her brother, Arthur, the king of England through some convoluted scheme that involves a sword in a stone, is somehow one of these actions and totally not just an attempt to rule England through a puppet ruler like it sounds like. Creating Coventry, it turns out, was actually an attempt to create a magical school that embraced all magical traditions. (None of which are shown anywhere in the book.) Why you would restrict access when you’d want these ideas to spread and why letting Highbinders near it is supposed to help this cause is yet to be explained. Avalon is her birthplace.

Titania is a Sorceress with the Queen Bee and Unshakable talents; the Half-Fae Otherkin heritage; and the Natural Telepath, Natural Telekinetic, Richochet spell, and Wards abilities. (If her mother was full fae, then where did she get the witch gene from?) She has D6 Senses, D8 Body, D12 Social, D12+7 Magic, and D10 Mind and Will. She has 87 mundane skill points (with Games listed twice with two different values and an unknown number of ranks in Gossip), 97 magical skill points (with 10s in pretty much everything), and 89 magic ranks. (Highest is Mentalism with 9, though none of her types are below 6. Most are at 8.) Her signature spell is “Global Command”, a Metanlism 9 spell that lets her alter the memories and minds of everyone on the planet at the same time. Don’t know if she gets much use out of it though. For equipment, she has her Arcane Ace broom from her WW2 days (+2 to Broom Riding, lets her ignore 4 points of damage, and has triple the speed of a normal broom), a 1foot wide crystal orb called the Eye of Morganna (+2 MTR of Divination spells and lets her control the weather on Avalon for 1 zap), and she gets +2 to all of her rolls while she’s on the island.


Anansia/Anansi Batu (1,148)

Nephra’s aunt, Queen Zuri’s older sister, Vice-Headmistress, and the Time and Space instructor. She’s also part-spider.

Coventry posted:

A Daughter of Anansi the greatest of all Animal Paragon Spiders and the first Queen of Wanobi she wanted to a life away from her parents watchful eyes.
No, this isn’t reflected on her sheet.

Like many other witch NPCs, including her younger sister, she traveled the world because she got wanderlust and being a princess is hard. She spent several centuries being a courtesan and thespian in Europe before she decided she had enough and wanted to meet and teach people from around the world. So she started teaching at Coventry. Around other teachers, she’s a laid back prankster. Around students, she’s a strict rear end in a top hat who gives a lot of homework and makes “flamboyant gestures”.

Anansia is a Sorceress with the Queen Bee and Unshakable talents, the Half Fae heritage (because this is probably just copy-pasted from Titania’s sheet), and the Caller, Natural Telepath, Natural Telekinetic, Natural, and Wards abilities. She has D12+7 Magic, D8 Body and Senses, and D10 everything else. She has 125 mundane skill points, 91 magical skill points, and 84 magic ranks. (Highest is Time and Space with 10.) Her signature spell is “Perfect Time Line”, a Time and Space 10 spell that lets her change a past event in her timeline without affecting anything that she doesn’t want it affecting in the present. Her only piece of equipment is a gold amulet that summons Lady Spider, her giant spider guardian for 1 zap.

Those two are probably the most powerful legal NPCs in the game. (Circe’s probably up there. But a lot of her magical skills go beyond 10 without roll and skill bonuses, so she doesn’t count.) Which, considering there’s probably more witches on their level in the world, it makes me wonder why they bothered with the whole flying witch brigade thing and didn’t just give every single Axis allied person a heart attack all at the same time. Or even just pop into Hitler’s bedroom and turn him into something, alter his mind, or change his past so that he got into that art college. Ingrid Frieze, the Axis’ top witch backer, has no levels in Healing and less ranks in both Mentalism and Alteration than these two. So she wouldn’t be able to do much about it.

I imagine the reasons are “because gently caress humans they’re all racist and oppress us” and “because it sounds cool, stop thinking about it”.


Elsa Harkens (300)

Oh, come the gently caress on. Really?

Elsa is the school’s Dorm Mother, head of security, and Enchantment teacher. Unlike most German witches, because of course she’s German, she was not accepted into Reinhexxen because her father is an immortal, because of course most German witches are evil and went to the evil school. (Reinhexxen doesn't seem to have a problem hiring ghosts. But seeing as they're the evil school, they probably just torture them if they refuse to teach.) Her parents homeschooled her instead (couldn’t they have just sent her somewhere else?). She eventually worked her way up to becoming the head magistrate of Germany. Titania then stole her from them so she could be the head of security. You can imagine what her personality is like. I bet she sounds angry all the time, has no indoor voice, and her closet makes her look like she shops at BDSM dungeons.

Elsa is an Insider with the Jade and Touch talents; the Half-Immortal heritage; and the Natural Telepath, Richochet spell, Wards, Legendary Strength 1 (+1 to damage and Strength rolls), and Tough Skin (ignores 1 damage) abilities. For abilities, she has a D12+5 in Magic, a D12 in Social, D10s in Body and Will, and somehow D9s in Mind and Senses. For skills, she has 117 mundane points, 79 magical points, and 50 magic ranks. (Highest is Protection with 7, followed by Offense with 6.) Her signature spell is “Time Out”, a Time and Space 5 spell that sends unruly students into some sort of hell dimension where they can’t talk, can’t move, and every hour in the real world seems like a year. Her sole piece of equipment is a riding crop (really?) that acts as her wand and lets her whip people when they're being naughty... eww gives +1 to Time and Space and Protection casting rolls.


Emily Foster (30)

Yes, we’re finally introduced to the core’s lovely editor’s oft-mentioned self-insert. Emily, if you remember, is the world master of Cybermancy who is the best at it and all of the little witch geeks want to be just like her. A literal manic pixie dream girl, Emily is the school’s youngest teacher and was the most disrespected by older teachers until she downloaded the main building onto a flash drive. As you can imagine, she is one of the most popular teachers in the school. She was born on the Kansas side of Kansas City, which is probably where the real Emily Foster is from.

She also has the ability to turn mundane girls into witches, as she does to Kamesha in one of the comic’s stories.



So… this creates a lot of questions. Why don’t people do this more often? Why isn’t there some sort of small industry of witch mothers trying to get this spell applied permanently to their mundane daughters? Does it work on guys too? Has anyone thought about going on a crusade to make every single person on the planet magical? Why am I still putting more thought into this than anyone who had a hand in this game did combined?

Emily is an Outsider with the Geek and Friendly talents, the Half-Fae heritage, and the Natural Telekinetic (how many drat psychics are there in this school?) and Wireless abilities. She has a D12+4 in Magic, a D12 in Mind, a D8 in Will, a D4 in Senses, and D6s in Body and Social. She has 60 mundane skill points, 63 magical skill points, and 48 magic ranks. (Highest is, of course, Cybermancy with 10. The rest are mostly 3s. Her Alteration is only 3.) Her signature spell is "Rewrite the Net", a Divination 10 spell according to the book (she only has a 3 in Divination) that lets her add and remove information from the Internet at will. They meant Cybermancy, I'm sure. For equipment, she has a nameless pet monkey that gives her +2 to Reflex and can enter cyberspace and turn into any kind of virus, a Vespa Flyer with no writeup, and the original Ghost Top computer. It is literally the best.

Coventry posted:

This Ghost top computer grants the user +3 to computer rolls has limitless access to computer accessories no matter the distance, can instantly upload and download anything and is -10 to rolls to hack it.


Sunshine Moonglow (902)

Another witch who, once they came of age, left to see the world. (Which the fairies and fey of Avalon did instead of loving off to some other dimension.) She claims that she was the fairy godmother of several fairy tales, including Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty. (Though there is no hard proof.) She was recruited by Titania, her old friend, sometime in the 1400s because apparently the school had a problem where the students were afraid of all of the teachers. She’s the Healing teacher, the school nurse, and the guidance counseler.

Sunshine is an Insider with the Friendly and Goody-Goody talents, the Half Fairy heritage (which may or may not be different from the Half-Fae one and also not available to PCs), and the Caller and Instant Karma abilities. She has a D12+5 in Magic, a D10 in Mind, D4 in Senses, D6 in Body, and D8s in Will and Social. She has 76 mundane skill points (including another double entry for Games), 53 magical skill points, and 57 magic ranks. (Highest is Healing with 9. Most have 7s and 4s.) Her signature spell is “Loom of Fate”, a Divination spell that lets her and others see the possible futures of a person, place, or thing. Her sole possession is a Silver Star wand that gives her +1 to casting rolls, duration, and range MTR of spells that are helpful or grant wishes. As well as gives a +1 to casting Healing spells and +5 to the total amount of damage they heal.

And this book’s done. Were you hoping to hear a little more about the staff that aren't featured in the comics? Maybe a little about Coventry's supposed rivalry with the Garden of Mu? More character sheets for students? Well, gently caress you. You're not getting it because this book is full of . Have a picture of another one of the designated good characters transforming someone.



Next Book: Annabelle Deville’s guide to mystical mayhem Wicked Ways (sic), wherein Harris tries clumsily to make wickedness a sort of grey morality, we learn about the WWC’s probably extremely underused criminal justice system, learn about the lone reformatory school for witches, get some copy-pasted character sheets with Soto art, and watch Annabelle morph into Lucinda’s clonebestiefriend.

Adnachiel fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Apr 10, 2016

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
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#1 Builder
2014-2018



I gotta wonder. I mean, I know the answer is 'fetish poo poo' but I still gotta wonder why witch society keeps not just allowing these rear end in a top hat evil witches into positions of governmental power over them but fuckin' electing and lionizing them.

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Mors Rattus posted:

I gotta wonder. I mean, I know the answer is 'fetish poo poo' but I still gotta wonder why witch society keeps not just allowing these rear end in a top hat evil witches into positions of governmental power over them but fuckin' electing and lionizing them.

Probably for the same reason we do the same thing?

I mean, more than half of people hate Trump but it's still correct to say that he's somewhat lionized and somewhat elected.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



In fairness to Donald Trump, he also has not murdered people personally.

I mean, he's a total rear end in a top hat who encourages others to violence, but he hasn't done the real world equivalent of turning someone into a cigarette and smoking them.

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Mors Rattus posted:

In fairness to Donald Trump, he also has not murdered people personally.

I mean, he's a total rear end in a top hat who encourages others to violence, but he hasn't done the real world equivalent of turning someone into a cigarette and smoking them.

True, I'm just saying, being thought of as evil by half of everybody doesn't stop you from being elected president by the other half if more of them actually bother to vote.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



Because the writers on some level agree with the High Binders and honestly don't see the problem with the extreme overkill in retribution the cast regularly partakes in.

The problem with stuff with an element of Revenge Fantasy (Bellum Maga is especially bad for it) is the punishment has to fit the crime, making the characters you're suppose to root for all powerful and able to wipe out the "Bad guys" with a snap of a finger ends up paradoxically make you feel sorry for the "Bad guys" and disgusted at the "heroes" for punching down instead of up.

There's a reason why Warner Brothers created Yosemite Sam - because Bugs Bunny so regularly run circles around Elmer that people started to feel sorry for the guy, so they needed someone that's marginally more dangerous in theory and a big enough of a jerk to create the right level of schadenfreude.

Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Apr 9, 2016

Thesaurasaurus
Feb 15, 2010

"Send in Boxbot!"



Mors Rattus posted:

In fairness to Donald Trump, he also has not murdered people personally.

He has publicly claimed that he could and it wouldn't hurt his standing with his base. I am not confident that he is wrong.

What I'm saying is that witches are Donald Trump's core constituency.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Night10194 posted:

Beast is also the kind of game that drives me to want to play Hunter so I can play as someone whose job it is to deal with creatures like that. One of the most laughable bits in Beast is where they go 'When confronted with a Hunter, the Beast will ask them WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO HUNT and mind will be blown!' as if that isn't the main driving point behind every single Hunter ideology and something every Hunter works out over their vigil.

I kinda want someone to try that poo poo on a VASCU agent, only to get the US legal code cited back at them, chapter and verse.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Adnachiel posted:



She also sets a guy’s car on fire while his family was still inside because he dared to ask her for her insurance info when she ran into him.



Cotton Mather did nothing wrong.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


chiasaur11 posted:

I kinda want someone to try that poo poo on a VASCU agent, only to get the US legal code cited back at them, chapter and verse.

"Look, you rear end in a top hat. I'm here to arrest you. I don't know what kind of hosed up, weird Slasher you are, but you're wanted in connection to breaking and entering, missing persons, and you're a person of interest in six murders. Are you coming quietly? It'll go better for you."

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



Night10194 posted:

"Look, you rear end in a top hat. I'm here to arrest you. I don't know what kind of hosed up, weird Slasher you are, but you're wanted in connection to breaking and entering, missing persons, and you're a person of interest in six murders. Are you coming quietly? It'll go better for you."

"My heart bleeds for you, as a child. Someone took a kid and manufactured a monster. At the same time, as an adult, you're irredeemable. You butcher whole families to pursue trivial fantasies. As an adult, someone should blow you sick gently caress out of your socks."

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.





Young Freud posted:

"My heart bleeds for you, as a child. Someone took a kid and manufactured a monster. At the same time, as an adult, you're irredeemable. You butcher whole families to pursue trivial fantasies. As an adult, someone should blow you sick gently caress out of your socks."
Could a Beast do some kind of Dexter-esque, "lethal protector" thing where they focus all their bullshit on abusive parents, deadbeat dads, lovely wrestling bookermen, and other agents of the public ill? Is that maybe what Beast might have been aiming for?

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




Night10194 posted:

Beast is also the kind of game that drives me to want to play Hunter so I can play as someone whose job it is to deal with creatures like that. One of the most laughable bits in Beast is where they go 'When confronted with a Hunter, the Beast will ask them WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO HUNT and mind will be blown!' as if that isn't the main driving point behind every single Hunter ideology and something every Hunter works out over their vigil.
I feel like that was so badly handled it wraps around to good again, revealing that Beasts... don't actually understand non-Beasts very well.

(See also the "WHAT WOULD BE LEFT IF RIPPED OFF YOUR DISGUISE" opinion on Demons, where the actual answer is "a very angry orb of pure murder" or other things that are similarly Very Bad for the Beast who did it.)

I just wish this had been intentional. A splat whose opinion soundbites reveal that the group's understanding of the other lines is dangerously flawed would be great.

Night10194 posted:

I really liked one of the proposed alternates which is that the Beast and Hero are both trapped by a narrative that is the real villain. But I think that's basically just Changeling, isn't it?
Yeah, where the Beast doesn't win by going "lol nope i'm really better" and murdering/eating the Hero, they win by breaking the Hero vs Beast narrative entirely.

Adnachiel posted:

Even before all of the stuff about how bad the game's writing is came to light, my first reaction to it as a whole was "Uhh, okay... Isn't playing a monster something you can already do in every other game in the line?" It sounded incredibly generic and like they were just scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas.
Mmhmm. If it was actually, like, "You are an ancient mythical dragon (or similar). You are not, and have never been, human, you've just crammed yourself into this human guise because you like not getting murdered by fighter jets" that might be interesting and new territory, instead we just got Abuse Elementals.

Covok posted:

It's an idea that gets worse when put into any modern society. In some extremely ancient world that predates the earliest civilizations, then the existence of monsters to teach and remind people about the dangers of the world could make sense, if their punishments were lowered or at least made less abhorrent. But, in a modern society with education systems, written languages, the internet, and other such oddities, monsters to teach people about the dangers of the world is arguably redundant and, with how it seems to be implemented, malicious.

One could argue -- coming from someone who never read the book -- that the game line might not be as terrible if monsters weren't played up as objectively good and right or if them being played up as objectivity good and right was done as some play on Gnosticism and at attempt at cosmic horror.
There's another possible interpretation that wouldn't be poo poo. "You are the thing that goes bump in the night, to remind people that there's nasty poo poo out there, etc. Unfortunately, you are not actually relevant in the modern world anymore. Humanity has shined light into a lot of the dark corners you were warning people away from and executed what they found there. But you are still compelled to perform your function."

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012






Nessus posted:

Could a Beast do some kind of Dexter-esque, "lethal protector" thing where they focus all their bullshit on abusive parents, deadbeat dads, lovely wrestling bookermen, and other agents of the public ill? Is that maybe what Beast might have been aiming for?

Yes, that's basically what Nemesis(hunger for Punishment) beasts are supposed to do. The issue is there's still the vestigial "YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE TEACHING A LESSON!" thing, and the fact that even on his best day, Dexter didn't think he was a good person. He knew he was a monster, and they definitely didn't try to demonize Doakes for having the audacity to investigate crimes.

I'll try to get another update up tomorrow (well, technically today, but I'm planning on sleeping now) to give a bit more detail. But one thing that encapsulates much of what's wrong with beast, is the beast with a hunger for destruction that uses its beast powers to break into houses and vandalize the gently caress out of the place with things like "YOU ARE NOT SAFE" and "THEY CAN GET YOU", forgetting the fact that the only reason the beast was able to get in in the first place was because they have supernatural powers. Thus derailing the message from "You might want to get a security door and also maybe a safe." to "YOU CAN NEVER BE SAFE NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY! THE THIEVES WILL GET YOU! YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR BED!"

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Zereth posted:

I feel like that was so badly handled it wraps around to good again, revealing that Beasts... don't actually understand non-Beasts very well.

(See also the "WHAT WOULD BE LEFT IF RIPPED OFF YOUR DISGUISE" opinion on Demons, where the actual answer is "a very angry orb of pure murder" or other things that are similarly Very Bad for the Beast who did it.)

I just wish this had been intentional. A splat whose opinion soundbites reveal that the group's understanding of the other lines is dangerously flawed would be great.

Unfortunately, Beast seems to be going for "Those other splats are total losers compared to our shiny new monsterkins! They try to pull off their shtick on you, you'll totally destroy them with words!", which is a totally mature and good idea to include in your franchise.

Doresh fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Apr 10, 2016

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



Doresh posted:

Unfortunately, Beast seems to be going for "Those other splats are total losers compared to our shiny new monsterkins! They try to pull off their shtick on you, you'll totally destroy them with words!", which is a totally mature and good idea to include in your franchise.

So, Beasts are the SovCits of the World Of Darkness?

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.





Young Freud posted:

So, Beasts are the SovCits of the World Of Darkness?
code:
I REFUSE TO CREATE JOINDER

Quinn2win
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?




Autumn: Crying in the Night



The second full scenario in the book, written for people who have played the game before as a possible followup to the fox shrine story. This one is a little more complex, including multiple locations and two NPCs. For this scenario, the Narrator gets 10 Wonder and 10 Feelings for each scene.

Warn the players beforehand that this whole story takes place at night. A bird henge with the Night Blindness weakness will probably have a hard time. There are two NPCs who must be created, one human and one puppy. The human is a child who's diligent enough to go all the way back to school to pick up something he/she forgot - recommended stats are to use the "Diligent" statblock in the Winter chapter. The puppy is a dog with an Animal attribute of 1, stats otherwise available in the Winter chapter. If you've used a dog recently in a story, replace puppy with kitten.

First Scene
Location: Open area in front of the school. Time: Night. There's a full moon, and the PCs have gathered to look at the moon and spend time together. Let them chat amongst themselves for a while, but when things slow down, they spot a human child heading towards the school. When he notices the henge, he fearfully asks if someone's there. The important thing here is for the henge to meet with the child instead of letting him reach the school.

When the henge and child meet, make Impression Checks. He explains the situation: He forgot his homework in the classroom, and he needs to get it, but he's scared to go into the school at night by himself. In all likelihood, the scene ends with the child being accompanied by the henge into the school.

Second Scene
Location: Inside the school. Time: Night. The moonlight makes it easy to see, the school is silent. Floorboards creak, the atmosphere is unnerving. The doors aren't locked, though, so the group can easily make their way to the classroom, maybe talking a bit to relieve the tension of the creepy building.

When they leave the classroom with the forgotten item, everyone makes an Animal check, difficulty 4. On a success, they notice what sounds like a strange, sobbing voice. The group's child will automatically notice and be Surprised, crying out.

Third Scene
Location: A hallway to the school's exit. Time: Night. The child is so scared that he can't move forward without someone holding his hand. If the henge don't try to help him get his courage, he'll start crying and become to scared to reach the entrance.

Hopefully, the henge will be able to help the child gather his courage and escape this obviously ghost-infested school. As they escape, though, the crying voice rises again, this time much closer - everyone must face a Surprise check of 8. With the voice coming closer, the scene ends.



Fourth Scene
Location: Outside the school's entrance. Time: Night. At an Animal check of 4 or higher, the henge can notice that the sound is coming from the bushes by the entrance. Anyone who notices this can make an Adult check of 4 or higher to realize that it isn't the sound of someone crying after all. At this point, the child is so scared that he wants to run away, but if one of the henge gathers enough courage to check the source of the sound, they'll discover that it was just a frightened puppy all along.

The puppy isn't a henge, so it will just start barking. If the group has a dog henge, they'll be able to tell that the puppy is hungry and cold. If anyone pets the puppy, it will take to them very quickly, and Impression Checks can be made. The scene ends once the henge decide what to do with the puppy and the child goes home.

Final Scene
Time: Evening, the next day. This could go several ways, depending on how the previous scene ended.

If the puppy went home with the child, then the henge can head to the child's house the following day. The puppy will be excited to see them, and they can play with it for a while. Story ends.

If they found someone else to take care of the puppy, that character appears at the end and becomes friends with the henge. It could be a character from a previous story, or a student with the "Princess" stat block - if it's someone new, make Impression Checks. After some conversation, the story ends.

If the henge decide to look after the puppy themselves, the child comes to visit them outside the school the following evening. The story ends with the human and the henge playing with the puppy and deciding where to go from there.

Next: Insights about the Japanese countryside.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Young Freud posted:

"My heart bleeds for you, as a child. Someone took a kid and manufactured a monster. At the same time, as an adult, you're irredeemable. You butcher whole families to pursue trivial fantasies. As an adult, someone should blow you sick gently caress out of your socks."

Or for a great many hunters, "My gun gives me the right. Now are you going to die like a man, or do you want to close your eyes?"

Doubly so for the hunters who don't even know that it's a Beast they're hunting and think they're after a vampire or werewolf or whatever because how would they know the difference?

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.


Clapping Larry

Just Dan Again posted:

I remember skimming the splats for Beast last year and thinking that it might be interesting if they gave players something cool to do, but that it would have to be a pretty darn compelling something if one of the examples of a playable character was an old woman who fed off of children's terror.

It sounds like the best they could come up with was "Yeah, you're an awful monster with awful monster friends, but there are these Hero jerks who think they're better than you! Doesn't that make you mad?"

That old woman sounds like the Mean Old Neighbor Lady from Chill 2e.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



That character was awful.

'What right do you have to hunt me?'
'Motherfucker, you choked out my son and almost killed him over Halloween candy.'

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


I mean if anything Beasts would be the kind of throwaway enemy you give Hunters early on so that they acquire a sense of righteous purpose and maybe see the world too black and white before you sucker punch them with actual moral ambiguity and tragedy.

Because there's basically nothing wrong about killing a Beast.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



On the other hand, if you want to have hunters face off against evil ocean monster people, why not use actual fishmen instead of fishmen otherkin?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Because you can't mistaken those for Slashers, an actual scary monster, and then be relieved when they're just a bunch of petty douchebags.

Which when I think of it gets at Beast's absolute core problem: Even if you want to pants these jackasses, why bother? You've got Slashers, actual monsters, etc all over the place and these guys don't fill anything approaching a new niche.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Apr 10, 2016

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Night10194 posted:

Which when I think of it gets at Beast's absolute core problem: Even if you want to pants these jackasses, why bother? You've got Slashers, actual monsters, etc all over the place and these guys don't fill anything approaching a new niche.

Aside from "Otherkin who think they are special and important, but aren't"?

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Doresh posted:

Aside from "Otherkin who think they are special and important, but aren't"?

Why be redundant?

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015


Midjack posted:

Why be redundant?

There's gotta be Otherkin who are productive members of society, unlike Beasts.

grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.

Midjack posted:

Why be redundant?

Looks like someone doesn't know about Gerald Ford.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Doresh posted:

There's gotta be Otherkin who are productive members of society, unlike Beasts.

Changelings?

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Cythereal posted:

Or for a great many hunters, "My gun gives me the right. Now are you going to die like a man, or do you want to close your eyes?"

Doubly so for the hunters who don't even know that it's a Beast they're hunting and think they're after a vampire or werewolf or whatever because how would they know the difference?

And of course, there's the Long Night and the Malleus Maleficarum.

"We're on a mission from God" isn't just for Jake and Elwood.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012


Fallen Rib

Cythereal posted:

Changelings?

If we're talking nWoD Changelings aren't really otherkin analogues because they weren't born with the super-special soul of a monster or whatever, they were abducted and changed into something else. Most changelings, if you gave them a choice, would probably gladly undo all that poo poo and go back to being a perfectly normal person, and part of the game's conflict is that they can't do that, in many cases their old lives have moved on without them so what do they do now? By contrast many Beasts seem perfectly happy having cosmic justification to torture and torment people "to teach them a lesson" and the only problem with that arrangement is those mean ol' Heroes who don't understand that they're actually the bad guys (it's ironic, pass it on).

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Also Beast explicitly mentions the Beasts are A-Okay with the fuckers who made the Changelings and who Changelings are all hiding from because they're horrific abuse metaphors.

Tasoth
Dec 12, 2011


The issue I see with the dissonance between the beasts being teachers and also Dexter/90's comic book hero types is that the lessons they teach are loving busted. When you got a bad dude doing bad things to people and a beast steps in, it teaches two lessons. To the people suffering under the abuser, it straight up says 'You couldn't save yourself and the only reason you're safe is a greater power decided to step in'. To the people who inflict such suffering and who see this someone get taken down by a beast, it gets reinforced that the only thing that can stop them is a freight train of murder pulling in from Fuckyousville in the form of a beast. So there really shouldn't be a reason why they don't plan accordingly and prepare to kill a beast they can keep on doing what they're doing.

The whole concept of the beasts being teachers is neat, but from what's being posted in this thread, how they do it is hosed. Just devising ways that you could use that concept and produce conflict for the beast without making them abusive is a fun thought exercise, but probably one that's going to leave me dissatisfied how it was actually implemented.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012







Beast: Introduction
Like most Onyx Path books, we open with intro fiction. And..well.


Lineage posted:

“Mom? Ben’s acting weird.”

Laurie started guiltily out of her doze, sending the paperback in her lap tumbling into the sand. She shielded her eyes from the noonday glare and followed where Jessica was pointing. Her son stood a little ways away with his back to her, swaying in that unsteady way toddlers have, but otherwise unmoving. Ben was well away from the water line, but something about the way he stood there sent a chill down Laurie’s back.

“You were supposed to be watching him!” Laurie snapped as she stood up, fear shifting to irritation. She brushed the sand from her legs and glared down at her eldest daughter, who spread her hands in surrender.

“I was!” Jessica said. “He was building sandcastles until literally just now. Then he just got up, turned around, and walked to that spot. It’s not like I would let him get anywhere near the water, Mom. Relax.”

“Nice, Jess,” Laurie said, but the irritation was already evaporating, leaving behind a film of guilt for falling asleep in the first place. She didn’t ask why Jess hadn’t simply gone and checked on Ben herself. Ben often got in moods where only Laurie could console him. Today he’d been especially fussy. She’d been forced to swap with Jess and sit in the backseat with him to quiet him down on the drive from Philadelphia, and even then he’d been so unruly that Matt had joked about leaving him to be raised by coyotes in the Pine Barrens. Laurie suspected taking the twins mini-golfing was his way of recovering. He never said it, but she knew Ben’s insistence on her and only her bothered Matt sometimes.

“Hey, punkin,” Laurie said, standing over Ben with her legs on either side of him. Normally it made him giggle and swing around her legs like tree trunks, but he didn’t so much as look up. “Whatcha doin’?”

Ben didn’t answer.

“Are you OK, sweetie?” Laurie tousled his hair. Still no response. Ben was staring straight ahead, eyes focused, lips moving without sound, little hands clenching and unclenching. She sat down beside him. “What do you see?”

“Mama,” Ben said.

Laurie frowned. That wasn’t his name for her. She was always Mommy. “Mommy’s right here, honey.” She reached down and took one of his hands.

At last he looked at her, eyes bright and happy, smiling shyly like he was sharing a secret. He pointed a pudgy finger. “Mama in the water.”

Laurie looked at the waves, but they were empty, as far as she could see. She forced a cheer she didn’t quite feel into her voice. “Well, you say goodbye to her, buddy, because it’s time for lunch. Past time, actually. Let’s go get sandwiches, OK?”

Ben nodded and took her hand. “Bye, Mama,” he said, waving at the sea.

That night Laurie lay awake for hours, telling herself that the dark shape she saw when Ben said goodbye had been a trick of the sunlight on the ocean. That there was nothing in the ocean so impossibly enormous, much less so close to the shoreline, right beneath the surface.

Nothing at all.
If you notice it seems to imply the whole "This kid is a beast and he was born a beast" then you're right, because it's reprinted completely unaltered from the initial KS Treatment. That's going to happen a lot.

One thing that is new with the final printing is that each bit of chapter fiction is accompanied by a "Tales of the Dark Mother" I don't know why there need to be two stories a chapter but sure?

Tales of the Dark Mother: Sabia posted:

The sword rammed through Sabia’s back is awkward. A vicious square peg in a round hole. Awkward. Awkward to be surprised by a Hero in her own home, awkward to let herself neglect her Hunger. That’s the word she keeps turning over in her head, and it almost makes her laugh as she loses all her air. She wonders if she can turn her body. She wonders if she can take a step or take a breath, or any other motion she takes for granted. But she wonders, if she goes too fast, if she won’t cut herself in two.

Sabia falls in an ugly, graceless kind of way as Isolde, the Hero wrenches the sword back. Its curve hooks a rib like a prize bass, and Sabia thrashes uselessly. Agony turns to memory. She’s six-years-old with sleep paralysis, being weighed down by a nothing in the dark, calling out without a word for her mother to Please help! Please help! Only later would she understand what the nothing was trying to tell her about fear. How she could make it her friend.

But fear isn’t her friend right now, as Isolde rolls Sabia onto her back. “I’m actually sorry. A bit.”

“I know,” Sabia says, surprised she believes such bullshit, but the pain whites out all cynicism. She should feel hate and spite, but vengeance seems like such a waste of energy. All she wants is to fall into the Dream, but the Dream won’t take her in this state.

Isolde produces a little black vial and cracks it over the blade. “It’s not personal. It’s just what I do.” Survival pushes Sabia’s body, forcing her into a last ditch slide across the kitchen floor. Isolde runs the sword through her heart before she can even reach the wall.

Finally, the Dream takes her. It opens up from behind Isolde in bright, endless wings, wrapping over them both.

Sabia is warm. She’s that six-year-old again, and her mother is holding her little body tightly. She tastes salt tears, but she doesn’t want to cry anymore.
Do you want to go back to sleep, baby?
“I’m scared.”
Do you want to stay up with me?
“I don’t know.”
Her mother kisses her forehead and sings a lullaby she doesn’t remember. It has no notes. It’s the color of ice and sweet like corpses. It’s the most wonderful thing Sabia as ever felt. It makes her think of pain. Of the nothing in the dark. That fear is her friend.
Do you want to go back to sleep?
“No.”

The Dream falls away, and time takes her mind back. She’s cold, standing, leaning on the sword, unlocking the contents of Isolde’s stomach. They’re both surprised.

Survival is pushing Isolde’s body now, but her voice betrays her. “I...saw her...”

“I know,” Sabia says, as they both begin to bleed out.

I'm not really a fan of the writing in this book, it's very big and grandiose talking about these creatures that haven't earned the amount of gravitas that they're being given. Regardless, we get into the introduction chapter proper.

quote:

You don’t suffer nightmares.
You cause them.
You were normal, once. At least more than you are now. You got up and went about your daily routine like anyone else — work, school, family, friends — with the same petty complaints and ambitions as anyone else you knew, except that you never quite fit in. People might have called you a troublemaker, a tattletale, a great judge of character, or an empath. You might know the truth, though: you dream deep.

The people who have the potential to turn into beasts have a strong connection to the primordial dream of humanity from whence all wisdom comes. Sure you have terrible nightmares but when you wake up "things make sense". But not everyone has a connection to the dream, to gain it's knowledge they need help. But wisdom does not come easy, and the price to be exacted is fear.

Hrm, making a Faustian bargain for "wisdom", where have I heard this before.

Oh yeah.

Anyways, at some point another Beast encountered you during your excursions into the primal dream, and gave you a choice. Become a Beast, or keep dreaming. If you accept, your soul is devoured and replaced by a Horror, and you awaken as a Beast. You still look human, and you walk amongst them, but you aren't human anymore. You satisfy your Hunger and leave nightmares in your wake. You slip in and out of supernatural societies as easy as you do human ones, because all supernatural creatures are your kin and have their own wisdom to teach. You carve a lair out of the Primoridal dream and use it to empower your Nightmare.

quote:

Of course, the human world doesn’t understand what you’re doing. It’s not easy being the monster everyone was raised to hate and destroy. The Beast who evoured you, your Big Brother or Sister, told you to do your best to minimize the harm, to teach without causing lasting damage, and to choose targets who will spread the wisdom you grant them. You might take that advice. Alternatively, you might simply embrace your monstrous nature and become the villain of a thousand legends before you. If your Legend grows, your lessons could reach entire cultures; it might be the whole human race that awakens breathless, terrified, but wiser.
Someone once described Beast as a game of spreading your brand for personal gain, and it's depressing how true that is.

Overview
"In beast the Primordial: You play one of the Children, a human being whose soul has been replaced by one of the great monsters of legend: dragons, gryphons, giants, kraken, and worse. Beasts are not born, but reborn." Yes they hammer that point home pretty hard in the first chapter. "This is the life of the Children: preying on humanity enough to feed the Horror within, teaching people to listen to their nightmares and take wisdom from loss and fear." Even prior to becoming one of the Begotten, they have a connection to the Primoridal dream, constantly having nightmares of being hunted, dragged into the depths, dropped from great heights, held under the thumb of something huge and powerful. But they wake up knowing how those visons relate to their lives. "The lesson wasn't always pleasant; often it was painful and carried loss with it. You almost always knew, though, how to incorporate the dream into your life." But not everyone can hear them, because, you see, "The world has grown too crowded; human settlements have grown too large. People's minds are overloaded, and they can't hear the lessons the Primoridal Dream teaches." Ugh. It's humanity's fault, you see, for growing too large. Just like in the Old World of Darkness! But then your soul gets eaten and everything gets better!

quote:

Discovering one's true Family can be traumatic, but for many of the Children, it's a profound relief. They finally understand the reason for the dreams that have been drivingt hem their whole lives. They have the chance to grant others a lesson from pain and fear, to give people a moment of catharsis. And of course, that moment of catharsis feeds the Horror inside the Beast. Everyone wins! Not every Beast is a good teacher, however. Some succumb to bitterness, or revel in the power the Horror provides, and descend into sadism and brutality. A Beast who teaches nothing and instills fear for the sake of the feast reflects badly on all Children, bringing the wrong kind of attention to them.
I would like to add that nowhere in the book are rules for how you teach lessons. There are rules for feeding yes, but no rules to determine if you 'feed well' or just inflict pain. Also note that the only real reason to avoid being an rear end in a top hat is that it makes you look bad within your community.

The Beast With A Thousand Faces
So now we get a section where they go over 'myths' about Beasts and whether they're true or false.

Beasts Aren't Human: True Beasts are born human, but they have a connection to the Primordial Dream (which still makes them special). Some beasts claim they have never been human, and that the Devouring merely cleared away the human detrius. Others claim that their devourings were spontaneous and involved no other beasts. And they're already renegging on the whole "Beasts are made, not born" thing, fantastic. Regardless of if they were spontaneously created or devoured or what, Beasts aren't human anymore.

Beasts are a literal bloodline: False While beasts sometimes say they are descended from the Dark Mother and divide themselves into Families, the connection is supernatural, not genetic. Any human can be a Beast.

Beasts have legendary weaknesses: Sorta True Beasts have no natural weaknesses, but if a Hero finds them in a moment of weakness they can force weaknesses onto a beast.

Beasts Physically transform into monsters: mostly false Beasts don't shapeshift in the traditional sense, but they can use their Atavisms and Nightmares to temporarily gain advantages related to their true form.

Beasts are inherently evil: False That's just a vile Hero lie! A beast is only as evil as his actions, and most beasts instill fear to teach wisdom! Seriously guys! Trust us on this!

Beasts are feral monsters: False Beasts use human cunning to feed their primal desires.

Beasts are solitary creatures: False Many beasts join a brood of other beasts after their devouring, and some run with other supernatural creatures. But true solitary beasts are rare.

Beasts must fight Heroes to survive: True All beasts eventually attract a Hero, as they grow more powerful they attract more and more beasts and create more violence which makes more Heroes in a vicious cycle. "Wise Beasts understand, however, that Heroes are often the people most in need of the lessons they can impart, and that instruction is more useful than violence. That being said, Heroes don't always give them a choice." Oh dear, if only Heroes were better people then they could understand that Beasts are necessary and good and wonderful.

Beasts are Immortal: False Even though strong beasts can live a very long time, they will eventually die of old age barring intervention from a Hero.


The Dark Mother
What is the Dark Mother? Since this is a Chronicles of Darkness game, no one knows! She might be Echidna, they might be Tiamat or Circe. She might be the embodiment of the Primal Dream itself, and since humans aren't listening to her anymore she's sent the Beasts to do the job for her. Regardless of what she is, the beasts see her as the first and strongest of her kind. As well as the mother of all monsters. As far as beasts are concerned, Vampires, Werewolves, Changelings, and other stranger things are all just siblings of Beasts. And while other monsters (rightfully) scoff at such a claim, Beasts have powers and abilities that back up the claim. And I assure you, several of the supernatural splats have very real concerns about being linked to beasts.

What do her Children Do? Feast! If a beast does not indulge her hunger, then her Horror will start roaming while she sleeps and draw attention(and heroes) back to her. The Primordial Dream was the method by which humanity shared wisdom. The most basic kind of wisdom comes from fear and pain. Don't touch hot metal or you will burn. Do not run along the narrow ledge or you will fall. Do not enter the cave at the edge of the wilderness for monsters dwell within. Over time human society became more complex, populations exploded, and the wisdom of the Primordial Dream became lost amidst eight billion voices.

quote:

Beasts don't apologize for their harsh methods - wisdom doesn't come without loss. At the same time Beasts generally embrace a creed of moderation. If they feed too deeply or too brutally, they teach nothign but trauma and loss. If they feed too lightly and make their lessons too superficial, the Horror grows hungry and roams the Primordial Dream, looking for nightmares to amplify. Beasts must be mindful of both their Horror's appetites and what they hope to accomplish. Eat to live, don't live to eat.
This argument makes absolutely no loving sense. People still know that fire is hot, and not to run along ledges, because people have parents. People have books. We have school to impart lessons. I'm reasonably certain that the primordial dream doesn't contain the primal forgotten knowledge of C++ and how to use a Pivot Table. What Beasts do seems completely superfluous in a modern society.

The Horror
Conversely I think what the Horror is is fairly straightforward and doesn't need much explanation. What is important is that a Horror isn't a flesh and blood monster. It's more of an iconic thing. Almost a platonic idea of what a beast is rather than an individual thing.

Devouring

quote:

Anyone can become a Beast. The potential to slide back into the first darkness and join the ranks of humanity's nightamres-made-flesh dwells within every human heart. Still, the process of heeding the wisdom of the Primordial Dream begins early, sometimes in early childhood. The nascent beast has nightmares, glimpses of the Primordial Dream. Her nightmares are made all the worse because she is more often predator than prey. She awakens with a start: sweating, sometimes crying, but wiser A problem that was eating at her has a solution. It's not always (or ever) an easy solution, but she knows what changes she must make.
Again, how? I can understand using nightmares to teach avoidance behavior, or recommend a course of action in the broadest sense. But actually imparting skills seems like it would be impossible. Also they keep beating on the drum of "WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS PAINFUL BUT YOU WILL DO IT!" which seems almost emo in a 'Existence is pain!' way.

The also apparently sometimes dream of other people's wisdom. A friend being beaten down by a terrible giant tells a Beast that they need to get their friend to quit their job before it breaks them down. Other times they dream of blood and bone and realize that one of their friends is a predator working their way through their mutual social circle. Which, I guess sort of works? But these are highly symbolic and require some rather liberal interpretation. How can you be sure that your target will get the right lesson? The capital-N Nightmare powers that Beasts get are all fairly miserable as teaching tools, beyond some of the Kinship Nightmares.

Regardless, eventually such a dreamer will encounter a Real Beast, who will give them the choice. And if they accept they have one last nightmare where they are finally caught, their soul devoured, and they see the face of the Dark Mother. Then comes their Horror. They see the primoridal dream stretching before them full of long fought wisdom.

quote:

Of course, with relief comes dreadful knowledge, as the Beast realizes her terrible Hunger must be fed to keep the Horror appeased. Everything a Beast has learned since she was a child tells her the monster is evil. The monster is, at best, a vicious animal to be slain by a victorious Hero. In most cases, the monster is an analog: Satan, lust, greed, or whatever other quality or being society wishes to demonize. The monster is vile, she is wrong; every story the Beast knows ends with the monster’s destruction. The Beast has to come to terms with knowing that she is the monster, and in most stories, she’s the villain.

The Lair
The Lair is a pocket of the Primoridal Dream that belongs to the Beast. It a reflection of her own nature and that of their Horror, and as they grow more powerful the Lair grows with them. From a hiding place, or a place of rest, to a world of it's own full of advantages for the beast and hazards for her prey. If a Beast joins a Brood, the lairs join together in impossible ways, allowing a form of mutual security but also mutual vulnerability. If a Hero gains access to one lair he gains access to them ail.

Hunger
I think this has been covered pretty well already, and I'm not sure why it needs it's own section, but there are some pretty... great.. quotations.

quote:

Though the primal drive is the same for everyone, how beasts interpret that drive can vary - instead of literally hunting prey to consume them, for example, a Beast might metaphorically stalk a target and "consume" their trust.

quote:

Put another way, as older Beasts sometimes tell younger ones, "If someone eats, something else gets eaten." A Beast may console herself by thinking that she only hurts "Bad people" to sate her Hunger (either to scare the subject straight or make an example of him), for example, but deep down she knows that as far as her Horror is concerned, really anyone would do.

quote:

In order to teach the lesson, though, the subject of the lesson has to survive it and internalize it. A nightmare is only useful if the dreamer awakens, and wisdom is only useful if someone survives to use it.
Or you could just leave the corpse somewhere someone will find it and rest assured that someone will learn something from the experience. Even if it's only what color their lunch is mid digestion.

Heroes
In the far flung past, Heroes were the ones who helped people understand and crystallize the wisdom of the Primordial Dream. They used their link to the Primordial Dream to parse the wisdom it was trying to impart and help teach the lessons. They were shamans, leaders, judges, or lorekeepers. But over time the stories became more about the Hero and less about the lesson. Before they could understand the wisdom of the dream but now they responded to it with instinctive, retaliatory disgust and rage. They were once willing to tell and retell the cautionary tales but now their egos had grown and they needed to forge weapons to kill the monsters in the dark. The stories became less about the lesson and more about the Hero who killed the beast.

At best, Heroes bear a strong resemblance to the protagonists of ancient epics. Deeply flawed people doomed to a glorious terrible fate. At worst they are gore splattered maniacs trapped in an obsessive quest that is dangerous to everyone around them. Beasts often sympathize with Heroes, to a point. After all they're both linked to the primoridial dream, and Beasts are monstrous. Yes, she has her reasons, but not all Beasts exercise restraint and maybe Heroes are good at weeding out Beasts who go too far. The "problem" is that heroes aren't actually trying to solve a problem. They're not trying to kill off a beast, they're trying to become revered for kiling beasts. While the children benefit from the burst of fear and realization that comes from a hard won lesson. Heroes benefit from the veneer of simmering dread that never goes away. They leverage fear into dependency and adulation.

quote:

A Hero kills a Beast, but then realizes that the nightmare hasn't ended, and his work isn't done. More monsters must die on his sword. He cannot receive the fame he so richly deserves, because the world doesn't believe in monsters, so he smears the Beast's name, drags her publicly into the light, makes her hated for mundane reasons and crimes (real or not), and amasses followers who know the truth about him and his enemy
What's that? It sounds like Gamergate and MRA Doxxing? Why what a coincidence that surely wasn't intentional at all.

With one sentence they spend all of the goodwill they've amassed so far. The last paragraph in this section mentions that the "Dominant narrative of hero kills monster sells Beasts short, demonstrates a breathtaking lack of faith in humanity, and winds up with Dead Beasts. Heroes seldom question their own Heroism, this is what makes them so dangerous." What faith in humanity? Humans can deal with nightmares. That's not the question. The question is should they have to. And it's a question the book never asks.

Nightmares
It may seem that Beasts would be most feared in a Physical sense, Beasts can also call upon the power of the primordial dream to inflict physical and emotional damage on people. The most powerful Nightmares can actually become real, warping reality for at ime to show a horrifying glimpse of the Primordial Dream. And some of the Nightmares are just terrible, miserable things, and I have no idea how they would be used to impart a lesson. There's one that forces a person to confront their own mortality, and realize that you can't take anything with you, so why bother? It then forces them to abandon all social connections, and divest themselves of physical wealth. And while I guess that could be used in a positive way if you're dealing with some rich rear end in a top hat relative that no one wants to deal with, even that sounds like an absolute worst case solution to the problem. And even using a nightmare towards a positive end can spawn a Hero.

That said, one of the Nightmares is "Behold, My True Form!" where you use your sheer presence to inflict physical damage, and I love it from a thematic standpoint if nothing else.

Atavisms
Conversely Atavisms are an expression of the power of a Beast's Horror. And frankly I like them. These are the things where you breathe fire, or gain a giant's strength, or use your Horror's ability of flight. The most powerful Atavisms can cause physical changes, but other times your perfectly normal hands leave huge gaping claw marks. Atavisms aren't subtle but they are powerful.

Kinship
As far as Beasts are concerned, their family ties to other supernatural creatures are obvious. Even Mages, Prometheans, and Sin Eaters are kin to Beasts (And if you think about any of those for a second you should probably be going "Wait what?") Beasts can use the power of the Dark Mother to empower their kin, or use their connection to their kin to create new Nightmares.

Broods
Beasts have a culture of a sorts. Family doesn't always get along, but they do understand each other and that counts for a lot. Also any local area leaves it's own mark on the local primordial dream. Lairs link together and the most powerful supernatural creature in the are leaves it's mark on all the lairs beneath them. It doesn't necessarily have to be a Beast. If a Vampire Prince is the current area's Apex Predator, chambers in the areas may take on a "bloody, sensual flavor."

A Brood of Beasts can link their lairs and chambers together, and sate their hungers off of another member's feedings.

Inheritance
As far as "So what exactly is a Beast's end goal?" that's their Inheritance. Where a Beast reaches a reckoning between their Human nature and their Horror. If the beast merges into the human form in the physical world, they undergo the Merger, becoming a violent creature, losing all connection to the Primordial Dream and "Succumbing to the Hero's Narrative". Others undergo the Retreat, leaving their physical body behind and becoming nightmare beasts that roam the Primordial Dream.

A rare few fully embrace their Horrors and Humanity, becoming Incarnate. Incarnates are incredibly powerful and dangerous singular beings that are the "true monsters of the Chronicles of Darkness".

Themes
Time for another CofD staple.
No Neat Little Boxes

quote:

Characters - and players - might assume that they have a solid understanding of how the Chronicles of Darkness work and what the "rules" are. Beast is a reminder that no one- not he most connected vampire, not the wisest mage, not the oldest mummy - really has all the answers. Beasts delve into the secrets of the Chronicles of Darkness not because they necessarily wish to solve mysteries or gain power, but because the world is their home and they feel they have the right and, the responsibility to know
The is dripping out of that paragraph. No one has the whole truth, except Beasts.

quote:

This theme comes up in another way though: Beasts are not "good guys." They terrify people in order to feed their Horrors. Although their culture teaches them that they do so in order to impart important lessons, their peculiar form of pedagogy is entirely optional. A Beast is capable of being a force for wisdom, even for "good" in the Chronicles of Darkness, but doing so is entirely up to the Beast. Likewise, a Beast's primary enemy, the Hero, believes that killing the Beast is the right, objectively moral thing to do. The Beast Disagrees. Neither of them is necessarily wrong.
Please ignore all the times previously and later in the text where we unequivocally state that Heroes are wrong.

quote:

Perhaps, though, Humanity is just one more kind of monster; the fact that any human can become a Beast is an important part of that..... The characters in Beast are not the most evil parts of humanity. They're the scariest parts of humanity, because they are the stuff of nightmares


You Don't Choose Your Family

quote:

Monsters don't choose to be monsters, but, looking at Greek myths, one often finds an element of fatalism or determinism. Medusa and her sisters are sometimes listed as children of Echidna, but there are also legends that Athena cursed Medusa for sleeping with Poseidon. That notion that monsters are responsible for their own nature plays into the rather childish, but pervasive, notion that everyone and everything faces the same choices. On a sociopolitical level, we see it when people blame the poor for being poor, as though it was a choice (and a moral failing). In Beast, Heroes see the Begotten as irredeemable because of what they are — but the Beasts cannot be otherwise. Even Beasts that “choose” to be Beasts because another of their kind offered the Devouring aren’t really making a choice; they know what they are. The Devouring just confirms it.

So yeah, even though homosexuals Beasts chose to be who they are, did they really have a choice?

I feel like I need to take a shower.

Anyways, the choice of choosing the people who raised you, or the people who you're with now, as your 'real' family is a personal one every beast needs to make.

To Thine Own Self be True
Beasts are compelled to feed their Hungers, and no one begrudges them that, but they aren't excused from their consequences.

Inspirational Material
Some of the things we see here aren't surprising. Bill Willingham's Fables because of Bigby Wolf, yeah I guess. Disney's Beauty and the Beast I guess, Matt was beating the drum about Gaston being the Ur-Hero for months before Beast's release. But there's also Tucker and Dale Vs. Evil which honestly I'm not sure if that's genius, or missing the point to a horrifying degree.

Lexicon

quote:

Anathema: Weaknesses of Beasts. Some are vulnerable to particular metals, herbs, rituals, or methods of attack. Heroes can place Anathema on Beasts by striking them when they are “soft” (when Satiety is low enough that the Beast is still hungry, but high enough that the Horror isn’t roused).

Apex: The most powerful and feared supernatural being in a region. The Apex unconsciously colors the local hive with its influence.

Atavisms: Supernatural powers available to a Beast based on the character’s Horror and Lair. As Lair becomes bigger and more powerful, Atavisms become more useful. Atavisms are also more dramatic when the Beast’s location resonates in some way with her Lair.

Beast: A human granted a mystical connection to the Dark Mother, as expressed by the Horror.

Brood: A group of Beasts who have banded together and formed a shared Lair. They can fulfill each other’s Hungers to some degree.

Burrow: A passageway connecting Chambers within a Lair. A Burrow may also connect Chambers belonging to two or more separate Lairs of brood members.

Chamber: A distinct location within the Primordial Dream, often part of a Lair, reflecting an important place to the Beast, her Horror, or both. Chambers can also form in response to the actions of other supernatural beings, though they seldom recognize this.

Dark Mother: The ancestor of all Beasts, she is also called Echidna, Gaea, Tiamat, and many other names. Beasts are firmly convinced on a deep, instinctive level that she is still alive and watches over them.

Family: One of the five lines descended from the Dark Mother. They are Anakim, Eshmaki, Makara, Namtaru, and Ugallu.

Hero: A human being who senses the Primordial Dream in a broad, superficial way. Some Heroes becoming violently obsessed with killings Beasts.

Hive: The interconnected mass of Chambers that form near a given population center, all subtly influenced by the most powerful and influential supernatural being(s) therein.

Horror: The monstrous, iconic form of the Beast. It is separate from her physical body and lives in the Primordial Dream.

Hunger: One of the five driving urges that spur a Beast to go out into the world and hunt. They are Prey, Hoard, Power, Punishment, and Ruin. Fulfilling a Hunger increases Satiety.

Incarnate Inheritance: One of the three “end” conditions for a Beast, this involves the character and the Horror becoming fully realized. The character is permanently connected to her Lair and becomes one of the most dangerous forces in the world.

Inheritance: A state that any Beast can reach under certain conditions, in which she becomes something other than what she was. The three Inheritance states are Incarnate, Unfettered, and Rampant.(ed: Yes they say Rampant instead of Unleashed.)

Kinship: The familial relationship that Beasts share with each other and other supernatural beings, including vampires, werewolves, Mages, changelings, Prometheans, mummies, Sin-Eaters, ghosts, spirits, and most of the rest of the weirdness in the Chronicles of Darkness. Beasts can use Kinship to accentuate and augment the powers of other creatures, and can use interactions with these creatures to bolster their Nightmares.

Lair: The pocket of the Primordial Dream that a Beast’s Horror inhabits. When a group of Beasts form a brood, they may connect their Lairs via Burrows to allow free passage between them.

Merger: The process by which the Beast joins with her Horror, creating a near-mindless monster unable to access the Primordial Dream, thus achieving the Unleashed Inheritance.

Nightmares: Supernatural powers of Beasts based on activating Primordial fear in other beings. Nightmares are tied to Kinship; as Beasts expand their Kinship, they can learn (or create) new Nightmares.

Primordial Dream: A layer of the collective soul of the world, perhaps “below” the Temenos, in which the nightmares of humanity are given life. The Lairs of the Primordial Selves of all Beasts are here. Beasts can grant access to this Dream to other supernatural beings through Kinship.

Primordial Pathways: The paths used to access the Primordial Dream. Beasts can do it fairly easily, and can open them for other beings with Kinship.

Retreat: The process by which the Beast’s human body becomes severed from her Horror, creating a vicious spirit monster unable to leave the Primordial Dream, achieving the Unfettered Inheritance.

Satiety: Pronounced “SAY-shi-tee.” A measure of how fulfilled a Beast’s Hunger is at any given time.

Unfettered Inheritance: The Inheritance gained when the Beast undergoes Retreat. The Beast embarks on an astral journey and dies while in the Primordial Dream. The Beast’s Horror becomes a free-floating nightmare, a quasi-spirit haunting the dreamscape forever.

Unleashed Inheritance: The Inheritance gained when a Beast undergoes Merger. This can occur when a Beast’s Lair is destroyed, or if the Beast wills it to happen. The Beast’s Horror merges bodily with the Beast’s human form and becomes an animalistic monster, lurking in some dark corner of the world until a Hero arrives to kill it.


So what's different?

Well Chiefly, in the original copy, Beasts were chosen to be who they are at birth. The Horror didn't exist, instead it was the Soul, and the Devouring was known as the Homecoming when you realized what you were and the soul claimed the beast.

quote:

You were normal, once. At least more than you are now. You got up and went about your daily routine like anyone else — work, school, family, friends — with the same petty complaints and ambitions as anyone else you knew, except that you never quite fit in. It always felt like you stood apart from the rest of the herd; no matter how much you tried to be good, no one could argue that you had a cruel streak that ran bone deep.
Then came the day when you came face to face with the monster inside you, and suddenly it all made sense. You didn’t fit in with other people for the same reason a fox doesn’t fit in with a room full of poodles. It wasn’t cruelty in your nature: it was Hunger. Now you knew just how to feed it. Maybe it’s not pretty, sating these drives, but you don’t have a choice. It’s not your fault you’re what you are; since you can’t go back, you might as well make the best of it.

quote:

When the moment finally comes — when the Soul claims the mortal and the Beast is born — the horror of the monstrous is almost always accompanied by a sense of relief. At last, the Beast tells herself. At last it makes sense. The nightmares, the need, the thrill of seeing fear in someone’s eyes — it’s all part of something so much bigger. Of course, with relief comes horror, as the Beast realizes her terrible Hunger must be fed to keep the Soul appeased. Everything a Beast has learned since she was a child tells her the monster is evil.
The analogues between this and someone from a conservative family realizing they're Gay are almost painful.

The other big difference is in Heroes, they aren't even given the chance to appear sympathetic. Even though they do not really have a choice in the matter.

quote:

Literature idealizes these figures as square-jawed, divinely chosen champions putting themselves between depraved monsters and their innocent victims, but the Children know the truth is more complicated. Once a mythic link takes hold of a person, they are at best a ruthless stalker willing to commit any act in the name of “heroism.” At best, Heroes bear a strong resemblance to the heroes of ancient epics: deeply flawed people doomed to a terrible but glorious fate. At worst, Heroes are gibbering, gore-spattered maniacs whose obsessive quest to destroy the Beast twists their minds and makes them dangerous to everyone around them.

Having been raised with the same stories as everyone else, it can be very difficult for Beasts to process this reaction, to feel as though the whole world hates them and wants them dead. On the one hand, even the noblest Beast is still indisputably a monster of the darkest sort of nightmares, one who inevitably preys on human beings to satiate her Hunger. On the other hand, the Beast wasn’t exactly offered a choice in the matter and is often simply doing her best to survive, just like any other creature. Coupled with the fact that many of these self-styled Heroes are capable of any number of atrocities in the name of the greater good — after all, what isn’t justified to stop a dragon preying on your town? — it can be very hard to tell who the villain is in the situation.

Ultimately, Beasts recognize that the Hero cycle is as much a part of their nature as their Lair and their Soul. Humanity fears Beasts — that’s the intrinsic truth of what they are — and what humanity fears, it invariably attempts to destroy. Beasts quickly learn that they can’t become angry that people have that reaction; it’s reasonable. At the same time, though, the Children know that they have a right to exist. The world is a terrifying place, and the monsters in the dark are there for a reason. The dominant narrative may be “Hero arises, kills the monster,” but the Begotten see past that and know that it doesn’t have to be that way. Heroes, on the other hand, never question their own heroism — and that is why Beasts hate them.
The level of self entitlement is disgusting to read about. Heroes have no choice in what they are, just like Beasts, if anything they have less choice because the narrative of a Hero takes over their entire lives. They are literally unable to question their motives, but it's okay to hate them because the book says so.

Up Next: After the Devouring

Kurieg fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Apr 25, 2016

Valatar
Sep 26, 2011

A remarkable example of a pathetic species.


Lipstick Apathy

Tasoth posted:

To the people suffering under the abuser, it straight up says 'You couldn't save yourself and the only reason you're safe is a greater power decided to step in'.

We have that greater power. It's generally referred to as "the law". While it doesn't make as much of a feel-good ending if the abuse survivor doesn't Rambo out and pull themselves up by their bootstraps, the fact is that many aren't in a position to save themselves and at the end of the day being saved by a greater power is a preferable outcome to more status quo. I'd want them to seek ever how much therapy it'll take for them to reach a point where they could save themselves, but it's more important to get them out of a dangerous situation ASAP and work on the details later instead of hanging back waiting for them to maybe someday do something and hoping they don't get killed in the interim.

Count Chocula
Dec 25, 2011

WE HAVE TO CONTROL OUR ENVIRONMENT
IF YOU SEE ME POSTING OUTSIDE OF THE AUSPOL THREAD PLEASE TELL ME THAT I'M MISSED AND TO START POSTING AGAIN


quote:

Someone once described Beast as a game of spreading your brand for personal gain, and it's depressing how true that is.

That's a really relevant theme/concern/skill for the modern world, though, and something that sounds fun to roleplay? Though I guess the Archtypes from Unknown Armies and the Words from In Nomine also encourage that.
My personal brand is demanding I defend Beast, but I'm not sure what angle to take. I will say that it taps into something real, a real fear and emotion teenagers feel. Or maybe it bugs me how many people see imperfect metaphors for outsiders and say 'I want to play the Man'.

The primordial dreams of humanity might not teach me Pivot Tables. But my dreams can tell me that if I don't take my job and my Excel skills seriously, I'll be hungry and alone, cast out from the tribe. Or they can rearrange the hard math of C++ into a metaphor I can understand, or at least provide a starting point for approaching it. The ancient Babylonians used math and record-keeping too.

Have you read Julian Jaymes' The Creation of Conciousness and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind? Beasts can be reflavored as the remenants of our divided Conciousness, when 'self-awareness' appeared in the form of external gods and ancestors to advise humanity.

Daeren
Aug 17, 2009

YER MUSTACHE IS CROOKED


Kurieg, do you mind if I post my own dissection of Beast's mechanics alongside yours? I have little interest in taking a hatchet to most of the fluff, because that horse has already been beaten into a chili-like consistency you're obviously handling that, but of the many layers of Greek tragedy that make up Beast's existence, the mechanical failings stand out to me the most beyond the first impressions. It'll be a less beat-by-beat discussion of each power, and more about the bones of the rules, and how they interact with stated fluff. I found it perversely fascinating to sketch out the screw-ups that undermined its initial good design ideas.

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Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012


Fallen Rib

Count Chocula posted:

That's a really relevant theme/concern/skill for the modern world, though, and something that sounds fun to roleplay?

Is there a game so lovely that you won't go to bat for it?

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