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AmiYumi
Oct 10, 2005

I FORGOT TO HAIL KING TORG
Night, are you going to cover Ouroboros or just the core syndromes? I never got to see it in play, so I couldn’t figure out if it was hilariously broken or if it ran you too hot to get really crazy.

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Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

AmiYumi posted:

Night, are you going to cover Ouroboros or just the core syndromes? I never got to see it in play, so I couldn’t figure out if it was hilariously broken or if it ran you too hot to get really crazy.

Just the core. I only just got Infinity Code as a Christmas gift so I haven't had access to any of it, and I prefer to cover material I've had a lot of play/time to see in motion.

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

Luckily, I *did* save your old avatar. Fucked around and found out indeed.

AmiYumi posted:

Night, are you going to cover Ouroboros or just the core syndromes? I never got to see it in play, so I couldn’t figure out if it was hilariously broken or if it ran you too hot to get really crazy.

If it helps, I've done a little playing with it (specializing in the blue mage powers, obv) and generally the latter, though I imagine if I'd had more time to copy more powers it would have shifted back towards the former. IIRC the Heretic powers were dumb dumb dumb and broken, though.

AmiYumi
Oct 10, 2005

I FORGOT TO HAIL KING TORG

Leraika posted:

If it helps, I've done a little playing with it (specializing in the blue mage powers, obv) and generally the latter, though I imagine if I'd had more time to copy more powers it would have shifted back towards the former. IIRC the Heretic powers were dumb dumb dumb and broken, though.
Ah, okay. It was my favorite supplement in the line to read, but I never got to use it. That book was just dripping with cool, lots of little ideas and powers and you just see them and want to make a character based around that.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

AmiYumi posted:

Ah, okay. It was my favorite supplement in the line to read, but I never got to use it. That book was just dripping with cool, lots of little ideas and powers and you just see them and want to make a character based around that.

A lot of the extra existing Syndrome powers are cool as hell. Especially Angel Halo's new stuff. All of it.

For reference, Angel Halo gets new illusion/dodge tank powers in the expansion, like an ult that lets them dodge undodgeable attacks, or the ability to step in and Dodge for an ally who just failed a dodge. It turns out you only hit an illusion!

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
Merry Christmas, you maniacs.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Rifts World Book 21: Splynn Dimensional Market posted:

Warning!

Well, this book is a little edgier than usual.

Rifts World Book 21: Splynn Dimensional Market posted:

Violence and the Supernatural

I don't know if it's worth a trigger warning or not but this does have more body horror than usual for a Rifts book.

Rifts World Book 21: Splynn Dimensional Market posted:

The fictional World of Rifts® is violent, deadly and filled with supernatural monsters. Otherdimensional beings often referred to as "demons," torment, stalk and prey on humans. Other alien life forms, monsters, gods and demigods, as well as magic, insanity, and war are all elements in this book.

It's probably not on the level of your average OSR darling, but it does continue the whole symbiote theme from Rifts World Book Two: Atlantis and has living beings trapped in devices, living in a constant state of torture, slaves being unwillingly modified, etc.

Rifts World Book 21: Splynn Dimensional Market posted:

Some parents may find the violence, magic and supernatural elements of the game inappropriate for young readers/players. We suggest parental discretion.

It also has a lot of slavery, torture, consumption of sentient beings, that sort of deal.

Rifts World Book 21: Splynn Dimensional Market posted:

Please note that none of us at Palladium Books® condone or encourage the occult, the practice of magic, the use of drugs, or violence.

I dont know if it really justifies a parental warning, but out of the different Rifts books, this is probably closer to justifying it. I'll use spoiler tags on some images for nudity, implied torment, etc. When in doubt, after all.





Rifts World Book 21: Splynn Dimension Market, Part 1: "Such aggressive tactics include fast-talking con-men, beautiful women (often shapechangers), magical special effects, illusions, physical coercion and even psionic influence (empathic, telepathic, and sensory stimulation; sometimes hypnotic suggestion) or possession!

So, first off, you may wonder - if you're reading these upon release - why I skipped from World Book 19: Australia to Rifts World Book 21: Splynn Dimensional Market. Why not cover Rifts World Book 20: Canada? The reason is because World Book 20, 22, and 23 form a "Canada trilogy" of sorts, and I felt that would be best to cover as one specific block. They also start getting into a the metaplot going forward, which is very important for the books following World Book 23: Xiticix Invasion. On the other hand, Rifts World Book 21: Splynn Dimensional Market is generally removed from the ongoing metaplot, and can be reviewed in isolation.


Wallpaper-resized for no particular reason.

Subtitled Atlantis 2, this is essentially a follow-up book to Rifts World Book 2: Atlantis. Written (largely? partially? generally?) by Mark "Sumocat" Sumimoto, who only would contribute a few other pieces to Rifts books before vanishing (much like Ben Lucas, author of World Book 19: Australia). It's not clear why he seemingly vanished from the hobby, other than doing some playtesting on Exalted books. There was a Heroes Unlimited book slated called Anarchy Unlimited that he was at one point slated to write, where a supervillain prison break had resulted in a city in chaos. Naturally, it would left for superheroes to restore order, but it was shelved for unknown reasons.

Sumocat posted:

My only regret is that you will never face the terrifying duo of the Mad Cow and Indestructibull.

Palladium fan not named for obvious reasons posted:

And I think Sumocat, we can be grateful we won't be facing Mad Cow and Indestructibull. (chuckles)

I think that if you like superheroes, but not goofy animal-themed villains, you may want to reconsider your love of the genre. One thing you'll see that's clearly Sumimoto's influence is a greater attention to previous work in the line. Whereas Siembieda has a seemingly spotty memory for Rifts canon, you'll see a lot of callbacks to other books and concepts, more than usual. In any case, I want to call out Kent Burles' art in this book - he's really good at getting across the notion of an alien civilization and doing all sorts of Jack Kirby-inspired weird monsters. It's disappointing that a lot of his work is somewhat divorced from the text - I'd be really interested to see what Atlantis might have been if based on his art. And, of course, we get Ramon Perez making a return with some great D-Bee designs.


Splynncryth takes a dip, I guess?

In any case, you can find my original review of Rifts World Book 2: Atlantis in the archives. Since it's been a good six years since we visited Atlantis, here's a quick summary for those of you might say TL;DR-
  • Atlantis really existed and was ruled by humans who developed enough magic to become modestly superhuman; these "Atlanteans" accidentally created a magical project that yanked the continent out of phase with this reality. Most of them escaped to other dimensions or became interdimensional nomads. These are often called "True" Atlanteans.
  • When the rifts opened, Atlantis reemerged. It was more or less immediately squatted on by Splynncryth the Splugorth and his minions.
  • The Splugorth are basically like "what if Yog-Sothoth was a bunch of merchant kings and slavers and really not Lovecraftian at all". They have a variety of client races. Also, they're evil because they're evil. Just take it as written.
  • Their main minions include High Lords (an unknown race of spooky wizards), dragons, gargoyles, metzla (floating crazy-tough bugs), Kittani (super-technological brainiapes), Kydians (ogre-like guys that breed super-fast, and they're typically enhanced), Altarans (self-cloning blind warrior women with a radar sense, no really), the Sunaj (traitorous "true" Atlanteans who work as assassins), and "Slavers" (an unknown aquatic race seen on the cover of the original Rifts).
  • The Splugorth are big into: slavery, bio-wizardry (magical genetic engineering), magical symbiotes and diseases, magic tattoos, stone magic (including large magical pyramids), rune weapons (weapons created via sacrificing souls), and magic eyeballs (harvested from a planet covered in eyes).
  • Though the Splugorth are often into conquest, Splynncryth is mainly content in just running his continent as a means to maintain his power and business, as well as just generally loving around and playing five-dimensional chess. His minions raid the rest of Earth for slaves with slave ships and floating barges.
  • Humans and "humanoids" like elves, ogres, etc. are generally considered inferior there and have little to no rights in Atlantis. It's a monster nation. What defines a monster? Uhhh... y'know... being evil... and ugly? Powerful, maybe? Mega-damage? Mostly? Kind of? It's not really clear.
  • The main capital of Atlantis is named Splynn, and true to the title, has a immense market open to multiple dimensions.
Atlantis was always an interesting pile of ideas, but wasn't terribly playable; it's basically doom for anybody that goes there with a hope of changing things, and didn't have a lot of plot hooks that weren't just... the player characters ending up on hooks. Splynn Dimensional Market aims to make Atlantis a little more playable. Can it succeed?

Next: There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

Hostile V
May 31, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

Hah, nice edit and oh boy just in time for Aquaman for Christmas.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Hostile V posted:

Hah, nice edit and oh boy just in time for Aquaman for Christmas.

It's reposted from the... Rifts Conversion Book review, but it's still true. True-er, perhaps?

I admit I wasn't even thinking of Aquaman, that's pretty far from my mind, but I do want to see it. Should really take the time for Spider-Verse first, tho.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
Oh man, back into the trenches with RIFTS.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.
Eww. Rifts. The thread was so nice without it

MollyMetroid
Jan 20, 2004

Trout Clan Daimyo
Nice of you to poo poo on a man's hard work that others clearly enjoy, on christmas day no less.

edit: By which I mean ARB's hard work. Not Siembieda.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Indeed, this is a Christmas miracle. Godspeed, ARB.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I never thought I'd be glad to see RIFTs.

Let's get back to this toyetic madness!

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003

La morte non ha sesso

Speleothing posted:

Eww. Rifts. The thread was so nice without it
This thread has never not had Rifts, so I don't know what you're talking about. Erin Tarn is real, and strong, and my friend.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
It's not going to be for everyone.

But it's definitely going to be.

Chernobyl Peace Prize
May 7, 2007

Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Tossing this here for when Skavenchat returns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiDZToowbCs

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
Anyway, thanks for the holiday support, everyone!

It really helps as I try and work up interest in the Xiticix. There's... there's got to be something to say, right? :geno:

Just Dan Again
Dec 16, 2012

Adventure!
Praise be to Rifts, and to its prophet ARB!

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Rifts is the dumpster of rotten meat of TTRPGs, which is good cause Im a maggot

Big Mad Drongo
Nov 10, 2006

Rifts is utterly fascinating, because it's somehow the longest-running Saturday morning cartoon ever despite not actually being a Saturday morning cartoon.

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!

Big Mad Drongo posted:

Rifts is utterly fascinating, because it's somehow the longest-running Saturday morning cartoon ever despite not actually being a Saturday morning cartoon.

Rifts feels like a saturday morning cartoon crossover that just never ended. All these often contradictory things/people/places all existing at the same time together like the cartoon all stars decided to just not leave after they convinced that kid to not do drugs.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Double Cross

DOMAINS OF DOMAIN

Orcus is the power set of spatial distortion, though it would also be easy to fluff as a general psionic/psychic power set, too. Instead of controlling a specific element or something, Orcus controls an area around the user. As you'll see from its ultimates, it can be a little all over the place. I'd say Orcus is one of the weaker choices for Pure (except that its actually Pure abilities are loving great), but it gets some really unique tricks. It won't make a great damage character without another set backing it up, but man, is there a lot of interesting stuff you can do if you've got another set. It buffs, interrupts, debuffs, and manipulates targeting.

Firstly, Orcus is probably best off fighting primarily with magic, on its own. It has a solid basic magic attack (though it can't be used on close enemies), but that's less of a problem because Orcus also gets the hands down best distance control power in the game. Orcus doesn't need more than one distance controller because Shrinking Earth is a single power that lets the user teleport. Shrinking Earth can only be used Lvl times (Max 5), but it's a cheap power that lets the user pick a point on the map and bam, they're there. This can also break you out of melee. So if you're playing Orcus as a wizard and someone gets close to you to mess you up, BAMF, you're not there anymore. There are a ton of characters who would find a genuine teleport helpful. Another important note: All of Orcus' damage spells are Range: View. Combine that with being able to go wherever you want and that's quite helpful. They also get a good AoE with the unfortunate limiter of 'once per battle' and a Scene (Select) AoE that can't be Concentrated. Arrow Raindrop is a nice anti-mook power, but it's much weaker than the Hanuman's Siren Song; it doesn't ignore armor and only does 2 damage per rank, instead of 3. You could combine the two if you had an Orcus-Hanuman, though.

Orcus gets fairly standard, if solid, dice boosters (In particular, its Dice Booster is Major/Reaction and so can be used to buff an Orcus-using Dodge as well) and a basic damage buff, but where it really starts to shine is Keystone Formation. This is the AoE enhancer for Orcus, which makes any Syndrome power combo able to hit up to 3 targets, lvl times per session (Max Lvl 3). To explain why this is special, a normal attack turned into an AoE will hit Area (Select). That means you point it at an engagement and everyone you want within that engagement is hit. Keystone, though, hits 3 targets. You can name 3 targets in different engagements, etc. It's Syndrome linked, so anything using at least one Orcus power is game. This opens up a lot of possibilities and Orcus is the only power set with a 'hit X targets' spell this flexible. You want to spread a buff to 3 allies fighting in different combats? It'll do it. You want to pick off 3 enemies in multiple fights? Attacks and debuffs work with this power.

Orcus also gets some really good reactive powers. They have a reactive dice debuff like Chimera's intimidation powers, but they also have a unique pair of dice fuckery powers. Fairy's Hand takes one of the dice in an already-rolled check and declares it a 10. That means it crits. If your ally was faltering on a crit chain, you can keep it going a little longer for 4 Encroach and one of your limited uses of Fairy's Hand. By the same token, Domain of Domination does the same thing, but declares the die result a 1. Enemy down to one die and hoping for a chain of crits? No, their check is over now. They also get a setup power that takes a whole group and gives them +1 Crit Value, though it isn't Area (Select) so you'd better be careful about loving over allies.

Further, they get two other magic attacks, one which does minor damage to a Single target and hits them with Rigor (can't move until cured by using a Major or Minor to free yourself), and another that hits people with Dazed (-2 dice for the turn) and Pressure (Can't use any Auto actions like healing or buffing until you're cured by using a Major or Minor to free yourself). Note this can be combined with the basic magic attack for Orcus, which isn't bad (it's about as damaging as Light Bow) and Keystone Formation to gently caress over a group of foes at once.

Orcus also has some interesting defensive powers: You know how some power sets have had 'reduce expected damage' powers to use to supplement defense after someone has been confirmed hit? Orcus has a good one, but also a unique one: Theirs assists a whole area and so can defend against an AoE attack. It also stops 4 damage a level, 5 levels, so 20 damage stopped to a whole area is potentially really good. They can Dodge with magic, like Black Dog, with Luck's Protection. This is a cheap way to get a Dodge you can throw some crit-boosters on, and since it's a Syndrome power it also works with their dice booster. They get a spell that makes someone else cover someone else within their engagement without using their turn (consensual only, so you can't grab an enemy and throw them in the way of their buddy's attacks) and a rider for it that can make it Range (View). That lets them teleport a tough ally who's willing between a dangerous enemy and a squishy friend (or the Orcus) and then teleport them back immediately. They also get very heavy summonable armor, maxing out at 23 Armor Value but penalizing Dodge and Initiative by 3. They can summon a somewhat weak melee whip that lets them use melee at up to 20m of range, too, but without much melee support in the power set you'd need another set to really take advantage of it. Also have a strong auto-counter against ranged attacks, doing 5xlevel (max 5) like Balor's melee counter.

Orcus' ultimates are all over the goddamn shop. They get a counter at 80% where they use Negotiate (which mostly isn't used in their power set, though they get a buff that can use either magic or Negotiate and a Negotiate dice booster) to roll a check against an enemy check and stop an action going off. They get another 80% that doubles the attack of a physical weapon at the cost of destroying the weapon. Which is weird as they have so little support for physical combat. They get an expensive Syndrome big dice booster that also increases the Critical Value of any reaction against it at 100%. They get an amazing 100% power where after an ally (or the Orcus) has already confirmed a hit, they just add Level+1 d10s of damage to the attack's damage (max lvl 3) for only 4 Encroach and with a limit of using it once a round; they can use it every round over 100% if they want. This is damage on par with that Chimera Divine Beast Attack. They get a 120% that returns all damage they take to the attacker (while still taking the damage themselves). Finally, they get a straight mind control 120. When you use Nerve Hijack, the enemy gets a Will (Mind) check against your magic attack. If they fail, you get to make them perform a Major action of your choice. This has no limited number of uses, but costs 4d10 Encroach at 120% so, uh, that's gonna run real hot if you use it more than once. It specifically can never target more than one person.

Finally, Orcus' Restrict Pure powers are both loving incredible debuffs. Dominating Particles hits a whole Scene (Select) with -5 Attack per level, up to level 5 (listed 3, but you're Pure, so +2). Giving every enemy -25 Attack for one round once an adventure is almost as valuable as the Neumann Pure's 'All Allies get +28'. They also get a Setup debuff that gives every enemy (it's Scene Select!) -3 dice to all actions this round. Dodges, attacks, everything. Useable Lvl times per adventure. So up to 5 times. Orcus Pure needed to have powerful Pures because in general, Orcus is best when it's paired with another set to take advantage of its tricks. The Pure powers deliver; those are both fantastic ways to gently caress over your enemies.

Orcus' simples are also all over the shop and focus on total control of their immediate surroundings. They can take over and control machines with their 'particles', they can gain perfect awareness of their immediate surroundings (this one fits), they can control plant life and make it super healthy or super dead in their immediate surroundings, they can build fools gold copies of items out of sticks and leaves that don't actually work, they have straight telekinesis, they can make little fairy paths and hidden ways through their surroundings, and they can control perception within their immediate area, preventing people seeing what they don't want them to see.

Orcus is a weird power set, but between its targeting abilities, reactive abilities, dice fuckery, decent magic, useful defensive powers, and potentially good debuffing potential it has a lot of combo potential. It's not great at physical combat, but it has enough useful tricks that you could build a primarily physical character who just dips into Orcus for the loving teleport and stuff like the dice tricks while mostly focusing their physical set if you wanted a melee Orcus. They compliment magic, buffing, and debuffing well. You won't be burning the world down with Orcus alone on pure damage, but some more decent magic attacks coupled with their other tricks will gel well with other casting or support sets. There's a lot of potential in the Domain of Domains.

Next Time: NOW I'M ON loving FIRE!

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

8one6 posted:

Rifts feels like a saturday morning cartoon crossover that just never ended. All these often contradictory things/people/places all existing at the same time together like the cartoon all stars decided to just not leave after they convinced that kid to not do drugs.

Oh, I don't begrudge the kitchen sink approach to Rifts, it's just that seemingly as soon as you touch the mechanics, the whole thing catches fire and explodes.

I still don't understand how and why System Mastery's John would play it.

Strange Matter
Oct 6, 2009

Ask me about Genocide

JcDent posted:

Oh, I don't begrudge the kitchen sink approach to Rifts, it's just that seemingly as soon as you touch the mechanics, the whole thing catches fire and explodes.

I still don't understand how and why System Mastery's John would play it.
Is Rifts actually mechanically broken though, or just conceptually broken? The lunacy of MDC damage coupled with Simbeida's complete lack of understanding of real-world numbers and statistics is such that what you're doing makes hardly any sense, but is it still playable? If you're willing to engage with the madness does it result in a fun experience?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Double Cross

Operatic Singing, Carnegie Hall on Fire

Do you like fire? Do you like ice? Do you like doing irresponsible amounts of damage? Do you like attacks called 'Plasma Cannon' and 'Annihilation Wave'? Then you're going to like Salamandra. Salamandra is all about damage and direct combat. You won't really find any buffing or support powers here. They also have an interesting gimmick where they get several powers that grow more powerful if they don't move. They combine well with physical or magic combat builds, but one thing is for sure: If you took Salamandra, you want to be the person knocking enemies down to 0 on pure damage and direct combat.

Salamandra only gets one movement power, themselves. This is one of their big weaknesses, and why they work well combined with another, faster Syndrome like a flying Chimera or a quick Hanuman. They can jump out of a fight with Ice Cloister as they temporarily gain Flight and super-jump less effectively than a Balor. In fact, Salamandra like holding still, with Blazing Fort giving them a big, efficient attack power boost they can add to any power (physical or ranged) as long as they haven't moved this turn. They also get multiple powers that will take their Minor action and then buff their Major for the turn: They can reduce enemy Dodge, buff their dice, buff their damage as long as the power they use uses a Salamandra power, that kind of thing. They can also use a Setup power to reduce all incoming damage during the turn with Ice Citadel, reducing it by 3 per level (max level 3) but only so long as they don't move. Salamandra likes to plant feet and charge up their super move.

As for what they can do, they have one of the best cheap basic magic attacks in the game in Flaming Bullets. It's exactly as powerful as Light Bow and others like it, but it can be used on enemies at any range. They get two different good basic AoEs, one limited in uses and unable to be used on enemies in melee (but very powerful) and one unlimited in uses but penalizing their accuracy by 3 dice, and in dire need of something like Flaming Bullets on top of it to give it more oomph. They get a Guard Break that causes up to 15 damage directly past all DR. They get a debuff rider that goes well with their AoEs, temporarily reducing an enemy's dice if they're hit by the Salamandra. Their magic attacks are simple, but they're really solid and combo well with one another and with their generic damage boosts.

They're also good at physical combat, both kinds. Outside of their general damage buffs for powers like Flame Blade (a generic +2 damage a level, max level 5 physical buff) they get two interesting dice boosters. One for Body, one for Sense; that's ANY check using Sense or Body, so the Sense one can combo well with Angel Halo (or gun combat) and the Body one with Dodging and melee attacking. Both damage the Salamandra by 3 HP when used, but they give a bigger than normal boost and cover a wide area of checks. They also get summonable Fists, Melee, and Ranged weapons, all of them solid. White Heat is almost as damaging as Reaming Claw for a Fist summon, while having better Guard and more balanced stats. Fire and Ice Sword has a huge 6 Guard and 11 potential attack if maxed at 5. Flame Ring is a short-ranged gun that does great damage (up to 11, which is as good as you get outside Morpheus) but is inaccurate. If you want to do physical combat, Salamandra can help you out.

They also have surprisingly good, if simple, defenses. Their Dodge boost is actually better on pure dice than Serpent's Moves from Exile, but costs more; expensive defenses can really hurt your heat if you're getting overwhelmed on numbers. Their Guards are both very good, having one '2xLevel' cheaper Guard, and an expensive-in-encroach-but-cheap-in-EXP 5xlevel Guard (max lvl 3). They also get one of the best 'reduce expected damage' spells in the game, though it can only be cast on the Salamandra directly: Blizzard's Protection is -d10 per level expected damage (meaning you can use it after a failed Dodge) once per round, max lvl 3. Add to this a unique Dodge boost called Melting that lowers damage taken (by up to 10 at level 5) on a failed Dodge (while giving you a concentratable Dodge move) and a very good dodge dice booster, and as long as you're willing to pay a lot of heat, Salamandra can stay in a fight really well. Especially if you have HP boosters from another set.

They even have some surprisingly good 'sticky' powers to keep people in a fight with them, if they want to be tanking for the team. The Flames of Hatred cause an enemy to suffer Hatred (The User), meaning they'll be forced to target the Salamandra until they cure the status effect. Salamandra also gets the only power that induces Blockade outside of narrative situations. Blockade is a condition that makes it impossible to Break Away from their Engagement. Fire Cage sticks everyone engaging the Salamandra in Blockade for one round, for 1 Encroach. They can also choose to drop the Blockade on a target for target basis, letting enemies flee if they wish to while keeping others locked in a cage of fire with them.

I bet you can't guess what Salamandra's ultimates focus on. Both their 80s increase damage. One gives you +5 damage per level to your eventual Major after spending your Minor charging it, at the cost of 5 HP per level (max lvl 3). One gives a big +4 damage per level (Max 3) at the cost of -2 Dice of accuracy. Plasma Cannon is just a 5 per level (max 3) base magic attack at 100%, to which you can and should add Flaming Bullets for more. Inferno at 100 makes a magic attack cause an enemy to lose their turn if they haven't acted this turn, if they take any damage from it. Annihilation Wave is exactly like one of Balor's 120 ultimates, inflicting 2+Level d10 damage to an Area (Select) for 4d10 Encroach with no accuracy check and no chance to Dodge or Guard. And Burning Soul is the 'get back up when too hot to Rez' 120 we've seen in multiple Syndromes. Like Salamandra, its ultimates are simple, focused on direct combat, and EXP efficient ways to add tons of damage or keep going in combat.

The Pures are very interesting and very useful. One of them is just a dice bonus for Salamandra attacks that also makes them ignore armor for 4 more Encroach. Simple, but very good. The other is a huge 'reduce expected HP damage' shield, reducing the incoming damage by 2+Level d10 damage (max level 5 due to Pure). 7d10 damage reduction in response to an attack getting through is big. The catch is you can't cast it on yourself, only allies, and only once per round as usual. Still, the Pure Salamandra's ability to throw out a huge 7d10 shield on an ally that's in trouble is a great defensive boost to a team, and one of the few support abilities a Pure Salamandra would get.

Salamandra doesn't really bother with debuffs outside of direct -Dice on one or two powers. Salamandra doesn't have buffs for friends. Salamandra doesn't have HP boosters or heals. Salamandra does damage, and Salamandra tanks damage. Its offense and defense are better balanced than you'd expect, but they're all focused on the simpler side of direct combat. Salamandra combos well as either some direct combat potential thrown on a character who isn't so good at doing damage, or by combining it with a heavy damage set like Chimera and then using the additional boosts to go through the roof. It's not complicated, but it's very effective.

The Simples for Salamandra are all heat based. You can make perfect pottery! You can cook delicious meals. You can make your own ice cream! You can survive extreme heat and cold! You can air condition your surroundings! You can walk through fire. You can freeze an unconscious person into a popsicle and let them get unthawed in the future. You can see heat! You can make little fires. What else did you expect?

Next Time: The many wonders of drugs.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Alien Rope Burn posted:

It really helps as I try and work up interest in the Xiticix. There's... there's got to be something to say, right? :geno:

The book turns them into something like zombies in that they're a far better backdrop or background element than something you need to focus on? No?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Double Cross

Deadly Deadly Poison

Solaris is a bit of an odd man out in that it's the only power set that can really lean on Social. The expansion books will add more potential to do this, partly to make it easier to combo power sets with Solaris, but for now it will remain something of an odd drawback/quirk of the Solaris set. Solaris is the power set of drugs. Incredible drugs. Solaris loves healing, buffing, and debuffing. It has the weakest overall damage potential of any Syndrome, but drat is it good at what it actually does.

First, let's talk Social Solaris. Solaris gets a great dice boost for Major action AND Reaction Negotiate checks, because Solaris also gets the ability to use Negotiate to Dodge. This is fluffed, for some reason, as the Solaris mind controlling tons of squirrels and other small animals to jump in front of bullets for them and not the Solaris just, like, overwhelming the attacker with drugs such that they miss, which is hilarious to me. They also get a Negotiate ability that actually does damage, as they induce heart-stopping terror with a bad drug trip. Not kidding, the ability is called Absolute Terror and inflicts Lvl Attack Power (pathetic damage) but completely ignores armor. It's also very expensive, at 3 Encroach for a fairly weak basic attack. Most of the Negotiate abilities feel a bit overcosted. They can also force people to move, force down peoples' Init, and the big one, add a 'rest of the scene' dice penalty to someone with Negotiate. Irresistible Words gives -Lvl dice to everything the target does if they get hit by it, for the rest of the scene. No way to remove it. Max level 5. That's a big hit.

If you're running a physical character, you'd think you'd want to stay away from Solaris. But they have some surprisingly good physical riders they can throw around. They can make physical attacks (or any attacks, actually) more powerful with a cheap 'poisoned attack' power (though it's very EXP inefficient, boosting damage 1 point per level with 10 levels and costing your Minor to apply). They can add on melee riders that destroy armor, give a flat resolution penalty to future Dodges by the target that round, or turn any attack, physical or otherwise, into an AoE as long as it's using a Solaris power with Poison Fog. I wouldn't recommend them as a main melee model; you're not going to do hand to hand as a Pure Solaris. But for an extra dip for a physical character, their defense destroying moves are quite nice. They also have a Mind and Body booster that work like Salamandra's: Take a little chip damage to drug yourself with hyper-adrenaline or super brain juice that boosts your Body or Mind dice on a Major or Reaction. They can also add a nasty poison DoT rider to magic attacks of any kind.

Most of a Solaris' buffing is actually based on magic. They get an incredible 'for the rest of the scene' physical buffer they can throw on an ally's attack power, but it inflicts Berserk, the extremely hard to get rid of Status Effect that makes you unable to Guard or Dodge. They get a +5 Damage, +Level Dice bonus buff with Valkyrie's Guidance, though it takes your Major to use. They get a great heal with Healing Water that heals d10 per level +Mind, which you can use that Poison Fog to turn into a group heal. Or link to, say, Heal from Morpheus. Or to that Valkyrie's Guidance power to heal and buff at the same time. They can also use magic to target and instantly take out one Troop type enemy, much like Hanuman's Sonic Boom but weaker. Also have a nice -Dice debuff they can throw on any magic attack. Solaris often work best split between Social and Mind. They also get an amazing reactive debuff with Blind Sheep. Like Hell Beast's Roar and other reactive debuffs, you declare it right as the enemy is about to do something and it penalizes them. Unlike those, which only go to -3 dice, it starts at 2 dice and goes up to 6 dice at 5 levels. It's twice as good! Solaris are really good at loving peoples' dice pools. Solaris can also get people up from being downed if they were running too hot, with the usual consequence that if they do that to a normal human it probably makes them Superhuman.

Solaris' ultimates start off with the amazing Berserker, an 80% magic buff that gives someone -1 Crit Value and +2xLvl dice to their next action. Again, stacks with stuff like Valkyrie's Guidance. Max lvl 3. And you can use Poison Fog to make it AoE. I had a Pure Solaris toss something like +17 dice to their entire team at high heat once. Additional Strength at 80 lets the Solaris make a DC 20 magic check (being one of the few buffs to require a check) to give up their Major to give an ally a second turn, once per round, cannot be made AoE. This is also notably only limited to once per round, not once per session. Overdose at 100 is really unique and cool: When you throw it into a combo, ALL powers in that combo gain +2 levels, which are permitted to break their level caps. As you can imagine, in a big ultimate combo with like 5-6 powers, this is really loving good. Only usable once a session, but hey. They also get a 100% reactive rez, where they get someone else up at Lvlx5 HP with Miracle Drop the instant they drop, once per scenario (cannot target the Solaris). At 120%, they get a 10xLevel (max 3) similar Rez that can be used on themselves or others, once per scenario. Solaris doesn't like buddies dying. They also get a 120 that causes an Impulse check, where someone saves vs. the Solaris' Will check with their own. If they fail, they go Berserk and get +2d10 Encroachment. If they weren't a superhuman, they are now! (Unless negated by the GM).

Their Pures are also amazing. They can turn one Major power into a Setup Power (though it cannot be Combined with anything else) for +5 Encroachment lvl times per session (max 5). Has to be a Solaris power, of course. Still good. They also get the ability to point to an ally once per session and restore one of their limited use powers. This means they can give you a second shot of something you could only use once per session, or once per scene, or whatever. Given some of those are 'I refuse to die' or 'I do an incredible super attack'...Restoring a Pure Neumann's ability to do Undefeated Genius or a Pure Orcus' -25 Attack debuff on all enemies can be pretty big!

Solaris is about support. They gently caress with people, they make people better, they heal people. They don't get much that lets them fight directly, but they can gel with almost any other powerset because they have some solid magic and physical riders in either direction. You won't be damage king with Solaris, but you'll be good at everything else. They tend to work better with casters than physical specialists, though; they get more nice stuff for magic than their few physical defense destroyers.

Their Simples are all about the drugs. Lure people with pheromones. Convince people you're their best friend with false memories or mind control drugs. Control how things smell. Have a magical whiskey still/brewery based on your total control of fermentation. Set up a wizard drug lab. Make diet pills with 'revitalizing nutrient solutions'. Communicate at a distance through intense hallucinations that can equal a hologram. You are the druglord. Be lord of drugs.

Next Time: Common Powers

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

Strange Matter posted:

Is Rifts actually mechanically broken though, or just conceptually broken? The lunacy of MDC damage coupled with Simbeida's complete lack of understanding of real-world numbers and statistics is such that what you're doing makes hardly any sense, but is it still playable? If you're willing to engage with the madness does it result in a fun experience?

I'm listening to a Palladium podcast (https://megadumbcast.podbean.com/) and in one episodes the caster did 1 round of combat using the recommended group size* doing nothing but basic attacks. It took him 15 minutes.

*admittedly, part of the problem is that Kevin's idea of a proper group size is absurd to begin with.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Strange Matter posted:

Is Rifts actually mechanically broken though, or just conceptually broken? The lunacy of MDC damage coupled with Simbeida's complete lack of understanding of real-world numbers and statistics is such that what you're doing makes hardly any sense, but is it still playable? If you're willing to engage with the madness does it result in a fun experience?

Only if you do everything you can to avoid rolling dice. I entered RPGs via TMNT and Other Strangeness as a 10 year old kid and branched into Heroes Unlimited, Ninjas and Superspies, and ultimately Rifts though I only had the core book, Sourcebook 1, and Mutants in Orbit. It was far more fun to create characters than engage with the rules in any other way. Combat was an absolute chore. We generally did what I guess you'd call "collaborative storytelling" today, and I guess making combat so unfun was a hilariously unintentional anti violence benefit.

But yeah, if you like the setting for some reason and limit combat it's okay, but at that point just stick the setting in a better system and do that.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



SirPhoebos posted:

*admittedly, part of the problem is that Kevin's idea of a proper group size is absurd to begin with.
I believe he doesn't actually use the Palladium rules as anything but vague guidelines when he's GMing.

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!
I mean, Savage Rifts exists, so why even try running the ol' mess?

Statting out stuff from supplements not released for SW is still better than trying to use them as is.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Double Cross

Common Powers and the Matter of Efficiency

Common Powers are something every single Overed has access to. You can buy from this pool no matter what power sets you took. Most of the stuff in this pool takes two forms: Extremely inefficient in terms of EXP, such that if you have a more efficient method in your Syndromes you should do it, or extremely inefficient in terms of being awkward, Encroachment-expensive, or something you can only do once a session. In general, you only buy a Common power if you're at the top of your game and running out of stuff to buy in your focus, or if you absolutely can't buy the thing you want within your power set.

Take, for example, the Common Power 'Attack Bonus'. Attack Bonus gets you 3 points of attack per Level, max lvl 10, for 5 Encroach, and can be added to any kind of attack. The catch is you can only trigger Attack Bonus once per session. But say you're playing a Pure Solaris and you really want something on board to make an impact when you throw out your big Overdosed AoE ultimate combo: This is the only way you're getting that kind of damage and if you're already tossing it on a fight-ender you only do once anyway, it might be worth the EXP investment. Similar, say you've been playing a long time, or started at high level, and you have a shitton of EXP: An extra +30 attack move you can pull out once a session might be worth it. But if you're a fairly normal Chimera, say, you'll have more efficient and better ways to boost your damage without buying a big one-shot ability. Most of the high boost Common powers are once a session, like this.

Also in the interest of disclosure, I was running the game for nearly a year before I realized there's a second Concentrate-type power for lowering Crit-Values on Reactions (Dodges), called Reflexes. It works exactly like Conc, just only for Reacting, and no-one starts with it like they start with Conc. I asked my players if they'd like to pay a 25 EXP Dodge Tax or just keep using Conc for Dodges, and they agreed we'd just keep using Conc for Dodges, so there you go. Just needed to point out whenever I refer to a Conc-Dodge I'm referring to a houserule, and fully RAW you'd need to buy this Power (which costs 2 Encroach like Conc, requires you to name a Syndrome like Conc, and directly subtracts from Crit Value like Conc) to be any kind of effective Dodge Tank.

We should also talk about the mechanics of Resurrect. This ability is extremely important to conditioning play and maintaining the flow of fights, but I think the actual power is a bit badly designed. I think the designers agreed with me, looking at the new power that boosts Res in Infinity Code. See, you can raise Res to level 3, but this won't get you anything worthwhile due to how Res functions. Res kicks in the instant you're KOed at 0 HP, IF you are below 100% Encroach. If you're above, you need an ally with a res power or you need one of those fancy 'get myself up at 120' ultimates. You instantly roll level d10s, gain that much HP, and gain that much Encroachment. It takes no actions to Res. Res is there to prevent every fight from being rocket tag. It's a reserve of 'get back up' moments where one of your animes gets slammed through a wall and then walks out of the cloud of dust and rubble with a bunch of dramatic cuts and bruises. It's a really, really important part of the game's sense of escalation and pacing. The problem is there's no mechanical benefit to raising Res. After all, I get back up every time I go down, and I pay 1 for 1 in Encroach for my Res HP. 3d10 HP isn't enough to stay on my feet, most likely, and I'm still paying as if I tanked 3 attacks that took me out, after 1 attack that did so.

I'm not going to talk a lot about Infinity Code, because I just got it and haven't used it in play, so I can't assess it as well. But I did notice a specific booster for Res in there among the new Common Powers. It gives you up to +20 HP on getting up (2 per level, ten levels) without costing any extra Encroach. If Res did the same thing, where you paid d10 but got 3d10 HP back, it'd be quite useful to raise it since you'd lower the chances you get knocked off your feet again. Instead, since it's 1 for 1, you're effectively spending EXP to pay for extra Res that you might not need, and that might gently caress your heat curve even harder. Also note Res happens even if you're afflicted with Pressure (explicitly mentioned). Also note getting knocked over and getting back up does NOT end any status effects you're suffering. You're still poisoned/grabbed/whatever.

Common powers also have a few other standouts: Hyper Toughness gives 3 HP a level at no base Encroach cost, 10 levels. This lets characters who have EXP to burn get in on the 'not being made of paper' action others get more easily from Pain Editor, Giant's Life Force, and Mark of the Twisted. As only three of 12 Syndromes have direct HP boosters, this one's fairly likely to see some use at higher levels by squishier PCs. Similarly, since HP boosters are rare, it's more likely someone really going hard on having lots of life might decide to eventually go in on even more HP (at no base Encroach cost) after maxing their other HP boosters. Speed Up is a base Init booster, on a 1 for 1 level, that's less useful because just raising Sense raises Init by 2 and costs 10 EXP, while two levels of Speed Up cost 10 EXP and raise Init by 2 anyway. Finally, Restrain Command is amazing because it's the only way to remove Berserk. You can use it once per scene per level, and it will cure Berserk (you MUST be Berserk to use it) and up to 2 other Statuses for 4 Encroach as a Minor. Berserk doesn't come up much, but being totally unable to defend yourself is a Bad Idea in Double Cross, so being able to dumpster it is important.

There is also another very interesting Common called Calm Down. This is a Scene wide debuff that hits ALL superpowered characters in the scene for -2xLevel dice to everything, for the rest of the Scene. This hits everyone. You, the enemy, the mysterious guy in a tuxedo and mask watching and smelling a rose during the fight, everyone. If you think the enemy is going to get shut down harder by a scene-wide dice penalty than you, this might be useful.

Common also has a power called 'Little Happiness' that's explicitly about using your powers to get filthy rich and then blow it all on a new anti-tank rifle, granting a huge bonus to Procure checks. We'll talk about those when we get to equipment, I just think that's funny. It also provides some basic 'a limited number of times, use a skill using X stat as if you had Crit Value 9 so you can boost random non-combat stuff' powers (you could use them in combat, but why? Conc is so much more efficient).

In general, Common Powers are used to fill in gaps you can't fill anywhere else. They're what you turn to when you can't turn to anything either because you either already have everything else, or you have no access to it in the first place and need it badly. They help ensure any character can try almost any trick, they just make it very inefficient. In effect, this means outside of powers like Hyper Toughness, they very rarely get taken. This is fine; that means the normal power sets do their job better. But if you really need to fill a hole in a build, Common can probably help you out.

Just be prepared to pay through the nose for it.

Next Time: Okay, finally, let's talk about pacing and Encroachment

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

Zereth posted:

I believe he doesn't actually use the Palladium rules as anything but vague guidelines when he's GMing.

He seems awfully proud of the rules he doesn't use.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!


Rifts World Book 21: Splynn Dimension Market, Part 2: "Player characters beware!"


Everything is lozenges here.

The Splynn Dimensional Market

So, unlike most Palladium books, there's no introduction; just straight to the main event. We start with a fiction chunk from somebody marveling at all the wonders of Splynn as he approaches via ship, communicating awe and wonder, but there's a kicker as he reveals that he's there to be sold for slavery or food. Good times, good times. Stay positive, fella.

Next comes an overview of "The Market", and it's said you can find anything there if you're willing to pay a high enough price. This is more hype than fact, but you can find quite a bit here. However, it's dangerous, particularly for humanoids and their ilk without an obvious patron or power. And there are some things you won't find here - Naruni items are specifically banned (as the Naruni Traders are rivals of the Splugorth), and availability of any item might vary. Sometimes the Splugorth themselves gently caress with supply and demand just out of general sadism at watching a given market collapse. And, of course, not all prices will be affordable or reasonable. Due to the prestige shown to dragons, it's rare to find anything made from a dragon, and draconic slaves are rare. Generally only "bestial" or "insane" dragons are allowed as slaves - where a sufficiently benevolent or kind dragon might be considered "insane". Cartoonish villainy? It's in here!

We get an overview of Splynn's history next. Splynncryth was already a powerful trading lord, but the emergence of Earth as a magical power drew him there to fulfill his dream of creating a massive trans-dimensional market. He hadn't been able to find the right location, but Earth's new transdimensional state made it perfect, and Atlantis was essentially uninhabited after its return. His High Lords used elementals to do construction on a massive scale, laying out cities under his vision. Though business has died down from the early days, it's become the largest Splugorth marketplace in the multiverse. Granted, it's not the largest non-Splugorth marketplace - Center from Rifts Dimension Book 2: Phase World is still bigger - but it caters to an customer base of demons and other eeevil creatures that rarely find welcome in other places. He's looking to franchise to other worlds in time, but right now he's content with just building Splynn and Atlantis up. The Market itself is 200 square miles - nearly the size of Chicago just by itself.


The customer is always hosed.

Surviving the Marketplace

We get a long, long set of tips on running and using the Splynn Dimensional Market, which I'll slip through quickly-
  • Buyer Beware!: There are all sorts of dirty sales tactics used in the Market, including fast-talking, intimidation, deception (mundane or magical), or even direct mind manipulation. This isn't illegal- it's just seen as clever.
  • "Yes, it's for sale - but not to the likes of you!": A minority of merchants might discriminate by race, raising the price or banning sale entirely. This is, once again, considered perfectly acceptable, and those that raise a fuss are more likely to be punished than the merchant.
  • Anti-Human/D-Bee sentiments and the law: It's noted that humans walking around freely are often given some degree of respect, as it's assumed they may have some powerful master or other reason they haven't fled on the fastest boat. However, mistreatment, dismissals, and insults are common. Locals who injure or kill humanoids are usually left off with a slap on the wrist for disturbing the peace. Humanoids themselves don't have many options legally other than simple bribery, though that may be out of the question if they've offended an agent of the Splugorth. However, a favor from a powerful citizen or minion - usually at a high price - can get one out of trouble if it can be arranged. It's easier to flee from charges than one might expect if you haven't offended anybody too powerful, though - most guards won't go out of their way to track somebody down unless they've committed a high crime.
  • "Everything you may ever want is right here ... or there": Finding what you're looking for can be tough. There are guides that offer assistance, but "half are thieves" that will try and rob their marks in some sense. Splynncryth doesn't approve of this - it's bad for business - but it's hard to stop. There are "official" city guides who are on the up and up comparatively, but still might have been bribed to steer newcomers towards given businesses. Lastly, there are airborne tours available that are legit, and give a good overview of the Market.
  • "Down on Your Luck? Splynn is the place of Opportunity!": There's always work available, particularly when the Splugorth or a merchant wants to remain anonymous or do something covertly. Some just hire people on shady jobs to gently caress with their would-be employees or rivals because, well, generic evil does as generic evil does.
  • Trade of goods for services: Of course, sometimes work is done as an alternate means of payment, particularly on dangerous missions where a merchant might not have to pay up after a failure. Fighting in the "Arena of Champions" is a good way to make money, but it can take awhile to have a match arranged. Sometimes minions of the Splugorth hire under the guise of local merchants - you can usually tell when they offer surprisingly high wages, but there may be subtle signs that are easy for outsiders to miss.
  • "All That Glitters...": Of course, some goods are false or falsely advertised, though most simply might exaggerate (it's hard to build up repeat business by lying outright). Often they might underprice an item to lure in unsuspecting customers as well. Alternately, an item might work as advertised, but be cursed or otherwise flawed in some manner. Such sorts of operations tend to fly-by-night and not stick around after making their money. We get a number of sections afterewards of variations on this - Cursed Items, Finite Payloads, Disposable Weapons, or Blatant Defects are variations on this. (One of the weirder examples is a merchant selling an x-ray laser that requires a live nuke detonation to fire, and not mentioning the nuke- I'm guessing even the Splugorth might have a problem if that goes off in city limits.)
  • Targeted for Theft: Aside from unscrupulous merchants, there are muggers, pickpockets, magical theft of various sorts, or even dimensional raiders arriving from other worlds to steal from whoever they encounter before bugging out again.
  • Targeted by Rivals & Enemies: Of course, people might single out a hero for revenge, and it's easy to cause offense that might simmer over time. A lot of locals can be surprisingly petty, particularly when it comes to humanoids. They're wanted in twelve dimensions, or so I've heard.


"Wait, why do you even have signs in English? Now I'm curious."

Whew! That is a lot of ways to gently caress player characters over, isn't it? There's no gamemaster advice here about being fair, it's just "You know, doing business here could certainly suck." It's more nuanced than the original Atlantis, but it's hard not to be...

Next, we get a description of Law Enforcement at Splynn. Generally, enforcement of the law is swift, and almost always favors merchants over customers. Most crimes - fraud, assault, murder, enslavement, are fine against "lesser" beings like humans or "creatures of good alignment". (How do they tell? Kitten-eating test?) However, a lot of petty crimes (like littering) can carry surprisingly severe punishments. Going against a minion of Splugorth is an outright death sentence. In general, merchants are allowed to do almost anything they like, unless the fraud was particularly severe and can be proven. Theft is generally overlooked - unless, once again, it was from a merchant or official. The minion presence tends to be heavy, and there are also magical eyes and animated statues that might be activated to stymie attempts at crime. There's still much they can potentially miss, but you often have to have some idea how to avoid their attention.


As a reminder: Kydians, pictured here, nearly literally hosed themselves into oblivion.

On the other hand, dragons, even outsider dragons, can get away with quite a bit. The general value put upon draconic citizens and their support of Atlantis means they can can get away with most things as long as they don't make a habit of it, or inflict violence against Splugorth minions.

So, why the gently caress would you bother going? Not just to shop for e-clips, that's for sure - there'd have to something you really, really need, like that water chip to save your vault. Well, we can get into some reasons next time, now that at the player character gently caress-yous are out of the way.

Well.

Mostly out of the way.

Next: Got a selection of good things on sale, stranger!

Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Dec 26, 2018

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

The bit about the rivalry with the Naruni got me thinking. I wonder what a baseline damage comparison of their tech versus the Splugorth's would be like. The Naruni came later in the line, and Carella made them and CJ did not shy away from the mega-damage numbers.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I admit, the tentacle monster glaring down at the hero with the CLOSED sign is pretty amusing.

Its jaunty vest is good.

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

I'll give credit, the art in this book at least shows Atlantis to be alien.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Strange Matter posted:

Is Rifts actually mechanically broken though, or just conceptually broken? The lunacy of MDC damage coupled with Simbeida's complete lack of understanding of real-world numbers and statistics is such that what you're doing makes hardly any sense, but is it still playable? If you're willing to engage with the madness does it result in a fun experience?

Well, nearly any game is playable given enough buy-in by the players. But no, it's not fun to play RAW. Even by my later teens, I was taking a major hacksaw to the game's damage system, converting everything to S.D.C. and adding relatively elaborate "blow-through" rules that added to lethality (but, ultimately, were there to speed up combat), or giving people skill bonuses for "easy" actions and the like.

The core issues are:
  • Combat takes too many rolls; you can easily have been 3-6 rolls resulting from a single attack, with Strike, Dodge/Parry, Punch/Fall, Damage, Saving Throws, secondary effects, etc.
  • This is multiplied by the fact that the general damage capacity means there are no "mooks". The notion of of a "throwaway" enemy taking 5-12 attacks to down is hardly unusual.
  • Many PCs have a poor ability to recover from damage as they're relying on ablative armor to survive. In addition, the nature of Mega-Damage means that combat is almost always lethal for the losing end.
  • And if characters were easily constructed, this wouldn't be an issue - unfortunately, characters have a fair number of stats and a lot of skills, and the skill system is universally organized badly for character creation. It easily takes around a half-hour to an hour to throw together a new character. Moreover, characters are very much at the mercy of rolls to determine their options and competency.
  • Skills start out really low and characters fail a lot. If they grew quickly, this would even out, but the XP system in Palladium game is such that XP rewards don't change but the XP to gain levels rapidly curves up. The openly intended state is that it'll take about 2 years to hit levels 7-9. Actually capping out at level 15 is a practical impossibility.
And that's without getting into the specifics of things like the psionics and magic system which heavily encourages degenerate play due to their relative ineffectiveness otherwise. Or the massive combat imbalances between character types. And there are many points where the rules are unclear, contradictory, or just plain forgotten (like Entangle, the grapple mechanic, which exists but hardly anything ever improves or references it).

The concepts are fun and the whole world is kind of this madcap toyetic thing, and that's where the fun comes from for many groups. But the rules are an albatross.

Dawgstar posted:

The bit about the rivalry with the Naruni got me thinking. I wonder what a baseline damage comparison of their tech versus the Splugorth's would be like. The Naruni came later in the line, and Carella made them and CJ did not shy away from the mega-damage numbers.

The Naruni's technology is much better than the Splugorth's Kittani technology, generally speaking, though they don't have any comparison to the Splugorth's advanced magic or biotech. They shift the whole power scale for groups that get ahold of their stuff, and Siembieda did a lot to passive-aggressively undermine the Naruni until they got their own book, making it so every faction in the game hates them and it's near-impossible for them to sell anything without getting their crap kicked in for awhile.

Night10194 posted:

We should also talk about the mechanics of Resurrect. This ability is extremely important to conditioning play and maintaining the flow of fights, but I think the actual power is a bit badly designed.

In general one of the weaknesses of Double Cross is the relative efficiency overall of improving certain powers - some really, really enhance your capabilities, and others provide tiny incremental benefits. I felt like some of the powers really needed reduced cost to improve, especially the ones you can upgrade 9 times for +1 damage each time. While you end up with a really efficient power, it's often far better to just buy a second power that synergizes with it for a much larger boost, even if the Encroachment cost is much higher.

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Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

In general one of the weaknesses of Double Cross is the relative efficiency overall of improving certain powers - some really, really enhance your capabilities, and others provide tiny incremental benefits. I felt like some of the powers really needed reduced cost to improve, especially the ones you can upgrade 9 times for +1 damage each time. While you end up with a really efficient power, it's often far better to just buy a second power that synergizes with it for a much larger boost, even if the Encroachment cost is much higher.

I feel that while some of them could have been better balanced, this is actually kind of intentional and important. Part of what makes a power set good or not at a task is whether or not it provides efficient enhancement to the thing you're trying to do at less EXP cost. Like how Solaris' general damage buff is woefully inefficient compared to Chimera's, because Chimera is great at doing damage while you're paying a premium to do it with Solaris, reflecting you're either already out of better powers for that task to buy or you didn't have better options and decided you needed damage. Like, some of them are too bad for this (I would absolutely agree most basic magic attacks are too EXP intensive, and that some like Solaris' Poison Blade are so inefficient no-one will ever use them), but buying a new power is also 15 EXP versus buying 3 levels of a power for 5 each. I'd prefer the solution be fewer '+1 per level for 10 levels' powers outside of Commons rather than changing the cost of levels, though.

Also, you really want heat efficiency sometimes. People can heat up extremely quickly in combat.

My real problem is that there's no reason to ever level Res, since it doesn't take an action to get back up and overkill doesn't come into it. If I get knocked down twice, taking 30 damage in one blow and 40 in the other, I pay 2d10 Encroach to get through them both at Rank 1. If I was Rank 3, I'd pay 6d10 and possibly be running into danger territory already. I'd actually be suffering for having invested more resources into Res.

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