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JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!
Reading Twitter as an automatic Masquerade violation.

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By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


What level is blocking someone on Facebook?

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant

Zereth posted:

the real fun with Rotschreck is that vampires do not natively get the ability to see in the dark any better than a mundane human.

Being a vampire before reliable, accessible electric lighting must've been absolute hell.

Every Vampire takes the first dot in Auspex, in-clan or not. It's too front-loaded a discipline not to. That PCs don't is entirely down to the system sucking. They fixed it it in NWoD.

EthanSteele
Nov 18, 2007

I can hear you

PurpleXVI posted:

To be fair to the concept of Humanity, if the players hash it out with the GM(i.e. what constitutes what violation of the hierarchy of sin) ahead of time and the GM gives fair warning in edge cases where the player might not realize he's about to trigger potential Humanity loss, it's a decent idea.

Yeah, these sorts of things can work, but they need to have very transparent rules so everybody knows what the deal is, GMs getting to go "gotcha!" is always the worst. Pendragon has the Honour and Hospitality passions which both have a set list of rules and behaviours that break them that you can look up at any time and because the players aren't Arthurian knights the GM is told to tell a player when what they're doing is going to break those rules so they can walk it back and adjust it until it fits or just barrel through and take the punishment (in this case, the relevant passion would decrease an amount in correlation with the crime).

It also has a neat thing where if you keep doing things in the name of honour that aren't normally covered by the rules, they get added to your personal criteria. If you keep calling on your Honour because it would be dishonourable for you to lose a duel, you've added Losing a Duel to your list of dishonourable things so if you ever lose a duel you're going to get punished for breaking that rule like any other.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Ratoslov posted:

Wait, taunting is enough to cause Frenzy? Given how much the clans hate each other, big Camarilla meetings should routinely end in a Dwarf Fortress unhappiness cascade.

Oh, absolutely. Noting more fun than making fun of a Toreador at Elysium going all the way out of their entire drat mind.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

EthanSteele posted:

Yeah, these sorts of things can work, but they need to have very transparent rules so everybody knows what the deal is, GMs getting to go "gotcha!" is always the worst. Pendragon has the Honour and Hospitality passions which both have a set list of rules and behaviours that break them that you can look up at any time and because the players aren't Arthurian knights the GM is told to tell a player when what they're doing is going to break those rules so they can walk it back and adjust it until it fits or just barrel through and take the punishment (in this case, the relevant passion would decrease an amount in correlation with the crime).

It also has a neat thing where if you keep doing things in the name of honour that aren't normally covered by the rules, they get added to your personal criteria. If you keep calling on your Honour because it would be dishonourable for you to lose a duel, you've added Losing a Duel to your list of dishonourable things so if you ever lose a duel you're going to get punished for breaking that rule like any other.

Specificity in the Paths is also something that later printings improve on, the V20 version, for instance, presents it a good deal better than the 2nd edition version(and as a sidenote I love that alternate Paths of Humanity in V20 include the Path of Vampire Communism, that entire path is just straight up a quest hook, especially if the entire coterie takes it).

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
There are so many issues with Paths that I didn't want to even touch it until I actually review the relevant book.

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Relevant Tangent posted:

Every Vampire takes the first dot in Auspex, in-clan or not. It's too front-loaded a discipline not to. That PCs don't is entirely down to the system sucking. They fixed it it in NWoD.

Can someone run down how many Vampire systems are there at this point?

Masquarade: oWoD rules/classic clans
Requiem: nWoD/CoD rules/hippy clans
N20???
Etc?

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

JcDent posted:

Can someone run down how many Vampire systems are there at this point?

Masquarade: oWoD rules/classic clans
Requiem: nWoD/CoD rules/hippy clans
N20???
Etc?

Really the only actual system split I'm aware of is oWoD vs nWoD(and even then the basic systems are pretty similar), aside from that it's patch notes that wouldn't even justify a .5 behind the edition number.

Mostly they're just reprints with addendums and fixes, and in the case of oWoD V20 they also folded in a bunch of supplements like the alternate paths, minor clans, etc. that were not in the base book originally.

MollyMetroid
Jan 20, 2004

Trout Clan Daimyo
Purple don't forget vampire 5 exists

even if you're trying to

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

MollyMetroid posted:

Purple don't forget vampire 5 exists

even if you're trying to

I mean, I didn't even know Vampire 5 existed or what it is. Go ahead and destroy my brain. Let me guess, it's an Onyx Path product?

That Old Tree
Jun 24, 2012

nah


JcDent posted:

Can someone run down how many Vampire systems are there at this point?

Masquarade: oWoD rules/classic clans
Requiem: nWoD/CoD rules/hippy clans
N20???
Etc?

For Masquerade there's 1st, 2nd, Revised (a third edition that they didn't want to call "third edition"), all from the 90's under original White Wolf. Then back around 2010 Onyx Path under license from White Wolf 2.0 (a part of Eve Online studio CCP after a mid-2000's merger) came out with 20th Anniversary. These are all very similar in rules systems, and the setting information remains fundamentally the same throughout. In the last few years White Wolf 3.0 came out with 5th edition which is much more of a mechanical and setting departure than any other. It and the first books were developed internally by Paradox White Wolf, but totally according to plan and not a result of constant scandal, everything is being licensed out now. So far Modiphius is publishing/distributing core stuff, and Onyx Path has some supplements going too.

Around 2006 White Wolf blew up oWoD and created nWoD, which includes Requiem. When White Wolf CCP started winding down, Onyx Path licensed to keep making its various games (and outright bought Scion, Trinity and WW's part ownership of Scarred Lands) Earlier this decade they started a stealth-second edition of nWoD which eventually became a full-fledged second edition, which after Paradox bought White Wolf from CCP (resulting in WW 3) to avoid brand confusion with their planned Masquerade 5th edition, rebranded nWoD as Chronicles of Darkness. Even though the whole line is very technically supposed to be Chronicles now, most people differentiate between 1st edition as nWoD and 2nd as CoD.

That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Jul 24, 2019

MollyMetroid
Jan 20, 2004

Trout Clan Daimyo

PurpleXVI posted:

I mean, I didn't even know Vampire 5 existed or what it is. Go ahead and destroy my brain. Let me guess, it's an Onyx Path product?

Nope! White Wolf developed it in house!

Under Swedracula's direction! You can guess how that turned out!

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry
What about John Wick's WoD? Where do you put that? aside from 'in an incinerator', of course

Angrymog
Jan 30, 2012

Really Madcats

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

What about John Wick's WoD? Where do you put that? aside from 'in an incinerator', of course

Monte Cooks', not Wick's

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?


i'm late to this but the post about the masquerade clans reminded me that at least requiem improved things on the clan front a bit. it's not just like 4 gangs of prissy vampires, then brujah, gangrel, and The Best Clan Nosferatu.

now there's like uh

sex guys, darkness guys, prissy guys, gangrel, and The Best Clan Nosferatu.

the bloodlines add a lot of variety though. they help distribute the spectrum of 'prissy <> gross' within each clan. I like the one group of vampires who are really fat guys, and theres like 50 really cool nosferatu variants. like ice mummies, nosferatus who eat other vampires, morlocks, all kinds. there's even prissy nosferatus. and a cool bloodline of twisted circus freaks who are deformed but also like The Freaking Joker I guess.

also hillbilly vampires.

the coolest thing is in one of the antagonist books there's some legacy devotion thing that lets you become a disgusting vampire caterpillar guy who runs around in the sewer

PoontifexMacksimus
Feb 14, 2012

Battle Mad Ronin posted:

I don't understand this playing around with joke quotes and I would like an explanation.

megane posted:

White Wolf like to pretend their game about biting people while dressed like a 15 year old emo girl and crying raises deep philosophical questions about the nature of humanity.

Nah, the question is why some quotes at least are misattributed (or maybe made up):

quote:

She's hungry as the hunter and she's shooting for the thrill
She's hungry as the hunter, she shoots to kill

--Samuel Taylor Coleridge, “Ain’t Got Time to Bleed”

Quick Google shows these lyrics were by the band The Mission from a song called Hungry as the Hunter

PoontifexMacksimus fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jul 25, 2019

Libertad!
Oct 30, 2013

You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

What about John Wick's WoD? Where do you put that? aside from 'in an incinerator', of course

He's clearly an Acanthus Mage; the Fate and Time Arcana are tailor-made for action movie gunplay.

thatbastardken
Apr 23, 2010

A contract signed by a minor is not binding!
and victor hugo didn't write brothers karamazov either

sisters of mercy were never general secretary of the ussr

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry

Angrymog posted:

Monte Cooks', not Wick's

I see them as interchangeable in quality of system mechanics.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

thatbastardken posted:

sisters of mercy were never general secretary of the ussr
Mother Russia came down!

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

That Old Tree posted:

For Masquerade there's 1st, 2nd, Revised (a third edition that they didn't want to call "third edition"), all from the 90's under original White Wolf. Then back around 2010 Onyx Path under license from White Wolf 2.0 (a part of Eve Online studio CCP after a mid-2000's merger) came out with 20th Anniversary. These are all very similar in rules systems, and the setting information remains fundamentally the same throughout. In the last few years White Wolf 3.0 came out with 5th edition which is much more of a mechanical and setting departure than any other. It and the first books were developed internally by Paradox White Wolf, but totally according to plan and not a result of constant scandal, everything is being licensed out now. So far Modiphius is publishing/distributing core stuff, and Onyx Path has some supplements going too.

Around 2006 White Wolf blew up oWoD and created nWoD, which includes Requiem. When White Wolf CCP started winding down, Onyx Path licensed to keep making its various games (and outright bought Scion, Trinity and WW's part ownership of Scarred Lands) Earlier this decade they started a stealth-second edition of nWoD which eventually became a full-fledged second edition, which after Paradox bought White Wolf from CCP (resulting in WW 3) to avoid brand confusion with their planned Masquerade 5th edition, rebranded nWoD as Chronicles of Darkness. Even though the whole line is very technically supposed to be Chronicles now, most people differentiate between 1st edition as nWoD and 2nd as CoD.

So if you want nWoD clans, you go
1st
2nd
Revised
V20
5e (Svedracula?)

If you want the whatever new dudes, you go
nWoD
Chronicles

yeah?

Stephenls
Feb 21, 2013
[REDACTED]
There's also the slight complication that Requiem was released as:

Vampire: The Requiem (1st Edition)
The Stryx Chronicles (written as an intended 2nd edition by OPP, and then CCP didn't give them clearance to release it as a 2nd edition so they just released it as one anyway with a title that didn't have "2nd edition" in it)
Vampire: The Requiem 2nd Edition (The Stryx Chronicles with like one new appendix because CCP changed their mind about new editions of the nWoD games)

That Old Tree
Jun 24, 2012

nah


JcDent posted:

So if you want nWoD clans, you go
1st
2nd
Revised
V20
5e (Svedracula?)

If you want the whatever new dudes, you go
nWoD
Chronicles

yeah?

Basically yeah. I think you can get nearly every clan and bloodline from oWoD out of like a couple of books for V20.

hyphz
Aug 5, 2003

Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.
Unlockable Ben
A curious fellow named Cook
Wrote a Black Cube instead of a book;
So it sold for more cash,
But it crumbled to ash
As soon as Walpole had a look.



So, at least three people on the Discord and elsewhere pointed me at this book; Monte Cook's take on a GM advice book. And I could hardly refuse them, now, could I?

There is, however, a small catch. I don't think it's necessarily the done thing to be fully F&Fing a book that's this new. As I write this the book has still been out for less than 24 hours, so this is going to be much more of a review than a content overview. (Not that there's really a lot of non-obvious content to overview, but still.) Also, I'm not going to do the whole book. It's actually in four sections; an introduction to Roleplaying Games, Being a Great Player, Being a Great Game Master, and Getting the Most Out of RPGs. And I'm only going to do the bits related to DM advice, since that's the theme of the review chain.

Your Best Game Ever was a Kickstarted project released in July 2019 which previously only had a "free preview" available. The free preview attracted some interesting feedback, not least because it included a Recipes section. Yea, a Monte Cook Cookbook. The recipes section is still in the final published version but it's considered "back matter" and only a few pages long, so it's not quite the same weird balance as it was in the free preview version. On the other hand, it is an exceptionally Monte Cook Cookbook. Here's the recipe from the free preview:

quote:

Delve Dip

* 2 cups plain yoghurt, mayonnaise, sour cream, or a mix
* 1.5 cups chopped fresh herbs of choice
* 1 tablespoon lemon juice
* 1 clove chopped garlic
* salt and pepper
* olive oil (optional)
* chips, veggies, pretzels or any other dippable
* blender or food processor

1. Put all ingredients in a blender or food processor and blend or pulse until smoothing. If mixture is too thick, add a bit of olive oil.
2. Taste. Add more of this or that until you love it.
3. Put it in a serving bowl with your dippables on the side.

So, yea. Three basic dip bases, no clear description of the flavor profile of the herbs, "add this and that", instructions that technically tell you to put the dippables in the blender - it's basically GM fiat, the recipe. (Also Walpole pointed out on the Discord that it's really bland as a dip recipe and is much more like a chicken salad base, but even Jubilee Chicken had a stronger basis (https://web.archive.org/web/20080205200851/http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page1206.asp)

But here's what makes it great. When I read that and was thinking about this F&F, I thought of jokingly adding my own recipe for "Food" (Ingredients, 1 Food, 1 Other Food; Method: Serve) as an example. But it turns out that I don't need to, because that is actually in the book too.

quote:

You All Meat (And Cheese) In A Tavern

* Some or all of: meats, cheeses, grapes, pears, apples, fruit, nuts, pickles, eggs, chutney, crusty bread

Put everything in rustic dishes and set it on the table. Feel free to tear the bread, break the cheese into hunks, and use cloth napkins to complete the feel.

Wow. "Get a bunch of food and put it on the table" is certainly something I'm happy at having paid part of my $19 for.

The other recipes are:
* D20 Rollups - tortillas with "a filling of your choice" and "a dip of your choice". Uh. Isn't this just "wraps exist?" Oh, yea, maybe put some cream cheese in them, and "don't overfill them or you won't be able to wrap them enough to keep their shape", a fact you'd notice about 30 seconds after attempting to close an overfilled wrap.
* Magical Whip - a dip made of peanut butter, yoghurt and honey.
* Salty Meaty Goodness - hey, you can put bacon and cheese on top of crackers then melt the cheese!
* Cyberpunk Street Noodles - buy some pre-made noodles and follow basically the recipe on them, but maybe put in some hot sauce.
* Monstrous Mac And Cheese - mac and cheese, but put spinach and green colouring in it to make it look unappetizing spooky.
* Root Cellar Stew - uh, ok, it's a stew, not a remarkable one but at least it seems to know what it's doing.

There's also a couple of cocktails - Magic User (a Purple Rain variant), Death Served Cold (a Madras with "creepy" red coloured syrup on the rim), Crounge Hound (a Bee Sting with herbs and scotch), and, ugh Green Goo - another totally generic recipe ("something orange, something blue, something bubbly, squeezed lime" - he really missed the opportunity to make a rhyme there)

There's another issue, too. The book is called Your Best Game Ever, right. Thing is, according to the introduction, that's a total lie.

quote:

It's a how-to book for all the things that we take for granted... Sometimes I feel like rules on how to play our games fill our bookshelves.. but rules on how to actually participate in the hobby are just gained through experience. Sometimes, they're passed along by word of mouth.

"Your Best Game Ever" implies that it should be better than other games of yours. Based on that introduction, the book should be called Your first game or even just A game. And there's little reason for this other than a weird bait-and-switch because no actual beginner is going to buy a book called Your Best Game Ever. That would be like someone who's never fished before buying a book called Catching More Fish.

The roleplaying games section begins with So you want to play an RPG? which is, yea, bare minimum beginner stuff. I'm not going to go throgh it because everyone's heard it a thousand times before, although it is updated enough that it suggests watching streaming games online if you're not sure what an RPG is like (hearing the wailing and gnashing of teeth over Critical-Role-as-RPG-porn in the background). There's also a few guidelines for getting involved in a game if you're unsure, some of which are a bit dubious like "Anything is possible" (ok, I jump over the Sun!) and "There are no wrong answers", which has the caveat ".. as long as you're doing something that's fun, that's a part of the story, and that doesn't hurt anyone else at the table." But how do you know what is or isn't a part of the story, as a beginner?

Understanding RPGs start with a section on "why play?", which claims that RPGs develop problem solving skills, communication skills, math and reading (which I suppose might be relevant for young children, but not so much for adults). "Three entities" starts to show the Monte attitude, though, by stating that play style is defined by the balance of the GM, the players, and the rules and how much they contribute to "making a story", whatever that means.

There's also a peak Monte sidebar on "asking the Game Designer rules questions" which says that asking the designer to clarify rules is a "waste of time" because no RPG has a single defined way it's supposed to be played and there is no right answer. That should be attached to all of his books as a warning. By the way, just 14 pages later there's a sidebar by Luke Crane saying that actually you should never assume you have more insight into the game than the designer did.

I should mention, mind you, that this is the least D&D-focused of any of the books I've reviewed so far. Even ones that start talking generically have usually defaulted to D&D by about halfway through the first chapter. And no, it doesn't just shill Numenera, either; the opening section refers to Blades In The Dark, Mutant Year Zero, Apocalypse World and Pendragon among others. Granted, it doesn't really say anything about them other than the names, but it's nice to see.

What's next? Why, it's time for a categorisation of play styles! Oh, we do love those. Let's see:

* RPG and chill: casual gaming, everything's just an excuse to socialize. It's unusual that this is the first book that has considered this to be a whole group style instead of insisting that it's just one or two players in a group that's mostly more involved.
* By The Book: is Monte's version of the Tactician or Wargaming play. Focussing heavily on rules and solving problems by using them.
* Rulings Not Rules: this is a kind of vaguely stated version of the OSR? Maybe? It starts by saying that these are games where the GM makes rulings and is thus (apparently) more likely to be able to adapt to creative solutions. But it then adds that this ties the game heavily to player skill, meaning it's harder to get into character.
* Story First says that the games tend to be about storytelling, but completely fails to define that, and then reiterates the old fallacy that storytelling play can include "going through a whole session without rolling a die". In fact, it says that storygamers might spend the whole session "researching the history of an important location by reading in a library!" Now, that to me sounds like a pretty uninteresting story and a massive pacing failure, but what do I know about storygames?
* Fun First - AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHH what an utterly terrible category! Thank you for implying that all the other categories make those things more important than fun! Anyway, it basically says it's a time of group that flip-flops between the styles based on what's fun. Gee, it's almost as if these should have been categories of experiences in the moment, not entire groups. Huh.

Complex Versus Simple Games is.. actually not bad. It's a reasonable overview of systems, mentioning that more complex systems tend to mean that the rules give greater weight to player choices and create more emergent gameplay, but also slow down play. It also points out, quite rightly, that "realistic" does not mean a complex system and it's a bad standard for RPGs. Unfortunately, there's no conclusion other than that "many gamers find that a game that falls in the middle of the [simple/complex] spectrum is right for them". Which would be much more useful if he had actually defined the ends of the spectrum.

Genres of RPGs is.. a list of RPG genres with a whole bunch of extra text attached to them, which mostly relates to.. how much real life research you might need to do to play them? Really? Oh, and, of course

quote:

Magic is at the heart of the fantasy genre.

Next, we tell the reader what one-shots and campaigns are. There's then a rather odd section on finding a game group if you're an experienced player. Hey, did you know that the best way to do that is to ask your friends?

Finding or creating the right group is a longer section, and perhaps a more useful and important one, although not a terribly interesting one to review. It's about the value of making the RPG group a comfortable and safe space for people to be able to express themselves as fictional characters, to accommodate people with different needs and personalities, to insulate IC and OOC and to be able to handle things if negative issues bleed through from one to the other. Unfortunately, it doesn't say a whole lot about how to do this, other than adding that there should be a "pause button", and that you should be prepared to leave a group if it's not working, or ask someone to leave.

Choosing the right game unfortunately doesn't give an overview of any particular games. It says to "look at the longest chapter in a book to see what it's about", or to just ask in your FLGS. Which is rather silly, since most FLGSes only stock a few of the most popular systems, and the longest chapter in Blades In The Dark (for example) is the chapter on the Duskvol setting, which is interesting but not the unique feature of that game. Finally, there's a weird section on Gamer Life Away From the Table that basically says that GMs do prep, players build characters, and you might get involved in side social things related to gaming. Hm.

Next time, we'll get into the actual GM advice. Uh, yea.

kommy5
Dec 6, 2016
I had no idea someone could so thoroughly miss the point of recipes. They're for people who can't just throw things together and have it come out decently. Which is kind of emblematic for RPGing in the first place. And some kinds of food (or games) simply don't work with that approach at all, be it cake baking or intricate tactical games.

Also, I can't resist the obvious shot. I hereby dub this text the Monte Cookbook.

megane
Jun 20, 2008



kommy5 posted:

I had no idea someone could so thoroughly miss the point of recipes. They're for people who can't just throw things together and have it come out decently. Which is kind of emblematic for RPGing in the first place. And some kinds of food (or games) simply don't work with that approach at all, be it cake baking or intricate tactical games.

Also, I can't resist the obvious shot. I hereby dub this text the Monte Cookbook.

It's impressive how apt the comparison is. How much baking soda do I put in this cookie dough? The GM will assign a number of teaspoons depending on the fictional positioning of the oatmeal.

We should call these draw-the-rest-of-the-owl books.

Tibalt
May 14, 2017

What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee

Kinda want to post those recipes in GWS as my contribution to the church cookbook and see how people react.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Here's the dip recipe I use when I host friends for a night of gaming, because I am not a fan of putting out big bland bowls of cream.

Chimichurri Simple Style
1 cup rough chopped italian flat-leaf parsley
1/2 cup rough chopped cilantro
1/4 cup rough chopped oregano
3-4 cloves of garlic, crushed (use 5)
3 tbsp red wine vinegar
1 squeezin lemon's worth of juice
1 tsp salt
1/4 to 1/2 tsp red chili flake
3/4 cups of olive oil
Crusty bread

Combine all ingredients except oil and bread in a food processor. Pulse and scrape til you have a rough mince in there. Scoop that into a bowl and pour the olive oil in the same bowl. Let sit for 20 minutes at room temp before serving.

Slice bread, brush with olive oil, throw on a hot grill until lightly browned. Serve that with the dip. It'll run out immediately so also have chips and veggies there.

Optional: You can also chop up about a quarter of a red onion or a whole shallot and put that in there. I take no objection to this.

Apparently I should have put this in my book.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008



Part 3: Moving Forward

Chapter 3 is all about Moves. And Ironsworn has a lot of moves.

Normally I'd be inclined to say that's not a good sign for a PbtA game. After all, it's generally accepted that PbtA games work better when they're focused. Less is more, and all that. But it works in Ironsworn because Shawn Thomkins understands that solo RPGing is a different case. Moves here aren't broad ideas that are prompts for GM moves; they're doing the work of the GM. They're telling you your outcomes instead of providing direction for someone else to come up with the specifics. It also (wisely) separates the moves into distinct categories.

The categories are set up to help structure play, although there's a bit of overlap between them as you'd expect. Adventure Moves, Relationship Moves, and Combat Moves are the ones you'll be using most of the time as you're doing things. Suffer Moves are automatically triggered when you take damage or stress, run out of supplies, or face death. Quest Moves are about making, completing, or breaking Vows. Lastly, there's the two Fate Moves, which are used to determine outcomes: Pay the Price and Ask the Oracle.

So rather than break all these down in a long-rear end list nobody's going to read, I'm going to play through a simple adventure and show off the moves as we go. I'll try to hit as many types as I can so you can get a feel for everything.

Get ready to see how bad a writer I really am!



quote:

Blood on the snow is, sadly, not an uncommon sight in the fringes of the Ironlands.

The blood in question in this tale is outside the newly-formed settlement of Blackbrook. It is shortly after dawn, and the hazy sky causes the sun to cast an unpleasant tone over the scene. The corpses of two cows, ripped open by fangs and still steaming. A bloody trail that starts towards the treeline but stops. The wails of a newly widowed woman.

Examining the scene is a heavyset man, his face in a scowl that gives the impression that this is merely a deeper take on his normal expression. As he looks over the carnage, a woman walks up behind him, a large wolfhound at her side. The man barely turns to her as he says, "I thought I brought you here to stop these things from happening, Asha."

The woman doesn't rise to the bait; it's clear she's dealt with this attitude from him before. "I can't magic myself to the other side of the settlement, Kiyone. What happened?"

Kiyone sighs and runs his hand through sparse hair. "I'm not sure. Sayer was getting ready to start working the fields this morning as always, and then I guess some beast came out of the woods and attacked him. Looks like it dragged him off with one of the cows. Killed the other two cows, too."

Asha nodded as her dog began sniffing around the carcasses. "I understand why you're upset; those cows weren't cheap."

Kiyone looked up at the woman sharply. "I'm glad you find this fu-", he started in a harsh voice, but Asha cut him off while still scanning the scene. "Did anyone see what happened?"

The man's jaw clenched for a second as he bit down another comment. "His wife was out here too. I guess she saw the whole thing because she's been a wreck since we found her. We haven't been able to get anything out of her about what happened."

Asha turned to look at the distraught woman sitting on a barrel, surrounded by other members of the settlement. She walked over and knelt down in front of her. "Parella?"

The woman looked up blankly.

Asha's tone was much gentler than it had been when talking to the leader of the settlement. "What happened?"

There was a long pause before Parella answered. "It...it came out of the woods. Just a...a blur. And it killed him. Killed him and took him away..."

"Parella, look at me."

The two lock eyes, and Asha draws her spear. She grips the metal head of it. "I swear to you on this iron, I will find this thing and avenge Sayer's death."
So this is where I messed up a little last post. Remember how I said you start with a background Vow and your "inciting incident" Vow? You don't just start with the second one as-is, you have to roll the Swear an Iron Vow move for it.


quote:

Fictionally, an iron vow is ceremonial. You touch a piece of iron and speak your vow. Don’t just make the move. Envision how your character enacts the ceremony. What do you do? What do you say? Is this a moment of grudging acceptance or one of fiery determination?

This is one of the more important moves in the game, because it's what ultimately drives the action forward. Since there's no GM to drop plots in your lap, you need to be proactive when it comes to figuring out what you want to do. Completing (or forsaking) Vows is the main narrative engine of the game, as well as how you get XP.

Asha is going to Swear an Iron Vow to avenge Sayer's death. That means rolling 2d10s (the Challenge dice) and 1d6 (the Action die), adding +Heart to the Action die and comparing to each of the Challenge dice. If the Action die beats both Challenges dice, then that's a strong hit, if it beats one it's a weak hit, and if it's the lowest then that's a miss.

Swear an Iron Vow: 1d10=5 1d10=1 1d6+2=3

Only one of the d10s rolled lower than the d6, so that's a weak hit: I get +1 momentum (bringing me to +3), and I have to figure how to find the path forward. Fortunately, that's pretty obvious for the situation; Asha just needs to find the beast's tracks. But first, I just want to close this scene in the narrative so we can get to the next one.

quote:

There's a pause, and Parella just nods mutely. Not an approval, or acceptance, just...acknowledgement.

Asha watches the woman for a moment to see if there's going to be anything else, then nods, mostly to herself. She stands, picking up her supply pack, and walks over to the blood-stained ground that had once been the paddock. Her wolfhound was already sniffing around, trying to pick up a scent.

The hunter looked at the gouges in the hard dirt, examined the bloodstains, studied the carcasses, and in her mind tried to envision the type of beast that could have done so much damage without warning and gotten away so quickly.
And that takes us nicely to another move: Gather Information.



This is going to be +Wits since I'm not using the community to help and don't share a bond with Parella. However, now my Slayer Asset can help me out by giving me another +1 and getting me +1 momentum on a hit.

Gather Information: 1d10=4 1d10=10 1d6+3=7

Another weak hit. Which is still technically a hit so I get the +1 momentum from Slayer, which combined with the +1 from Gather Information brings me to +5.

Unfortunately, there's going to be a complication. I could come up with something, but I think this is a good time to show how you Ask the Oracle.



Asking the Oracle is basically a way for me to declaim a bit of decision making. Now, I could just pick an obvious complication like "there's more than one monster", but for the purposes of this demonstration let's pick a second potential problem: the beast's lair is further away than I'd like. This would have a mechanical effect because travelling involves another move (which we'll see in a bit) that can cause more events to occur. The longer the journey, the more likely my resources will be depleted once I get to where I'm going.

So we have two options: "There's more than one monster" and "The monster's lair is far away." Now I need to determine which of the two options is more likely to happen. I feel the "there's more than one" option is the more likely one, given that the beast probably wouldn't be going too far out of its way for food. Now I just need to roll a percentile, and if I get a 26 or better then the more likely outcome is what'll happen.

Ask the Oracle: 1d100 61

quote:

What beast could kill two cows, then carry off another as well as a grown man all by itself? Especially making so many crossing tracks? Arya's shoulders sagged a bit as she put the pieces together. "Crap. There's two of 'em. And whatever they were, they could jump halfway to the treeline carrying all that weight."

She looked down at the wolfhound, who looked up in turn and barked eagerly.

"Yeah, good point Drake. Doesn't matter how many there are, it's our job to deal with them. C'mon boy. Let's go hunting."

And with a final adjustment of her pack, hound by her side, Arya made for the treeline.

When you travel in Ironsworn, you start by making the Undertake a Journey move and give the journey a ten-box progress meter.





An important thing to understand here is that while this is a progress meter, the goal is not to fill it up completely. I can chose at any point after the initial roll to end the journey and make the Reach Your Destination move, even if only one box is filled.



As stated, the number of filled boxes replaces the Action Die when I roll to see what state I'm in when I get to where I'm going. This means that I want to roll Undertake a Journey more rather than less, since that's what fills in boxes. But this is a risk/reward thing; the more times I Undertake a Journey, the more chances that I'll flub a roll and introduce complications or reduce my resources. (This is why I had "the lair is further away" as a consequence; longer journeys can have more complications.)

For the purposes of this demo, I'm just going to make this a Trivial journey to keep things moving. This means that I could make the Reach Your Destination with an okay chance of success after "journeying" twice, or high odds of success after three "journeys". Of course, this assumes I make those rolls well enough that I don't suffer bad consequences. And like I said, the more rolls I make (either to fill the track or because the journey is longer), the more likely I'll suffer some drawbacks.

Undertake a Journey refers to "waypoints"; this is a blanket term for any point of interest I come across in my travels. A settlement can be a waypoint, as could a ruin, a geological figure, or similar. Waypoints are important because I can use them to make camp, resupply, or just refocus. And yes, each of those have their own moves.

For now, let's just see how the first part of Arya's hunt goes. I'm rolling +Wits, with another +1 because I'm setting out from a place I have Bonds.

Undertake a Journey: 1d10=8 1d10=9 1d6+3=9

Oof, barely a weak hit; I need the Action Die to beat the d10s, not match them. Still, that lets me mark progress and gets me to a waypoint. The downside is that it costs me a point of Supply, putting me at +4. Not a huge deal, I'm probably still in good shape given how short this journey will be.



quote:

The trail was easy to follow; broken trees and bloodstains aren't exactly subtle. Whatever these things were, they wanted to get away and didn't give a poo poo about what was between them and home.

It's not far into the forest when Arya finds the remnants of an old hunting camp. Probably from the early days of the settlement, back before people realized that the forest contained more creatures than game. There was a rusted cooking pot half-buried in the dirt, and the stone circle that had marked a campfire was still mostly intact.

Arya looked around the clearing, taking some jerky from her pack and chewing on it thoughtfully. The...events that had happened during the early hunting attempts are what got Kiyone to bring her here months ago, and to this day she was still not sure how she felt about it.

She shook her head. No point in self-examination right now; there were beasts to kill.
So while I did reach a milestone, I'm not required to do anything there. Yes I defined this as a camp and could have used it as such, but I didn't need to. That said, I still used the opportunity to do some light worldbuilding about the history of the settlement and establish that the woods aren't somewhere people go anymore.

Because I made progress on a Trivial journey, I fill in three boxes on the progress track. Making a roll against a 3 isn't good odds, so let's make another Journey roll.

Undertake a Journey: 1d10=8 1d10=8 1d6+2=3

Uh oh.

So a few things just happened. First off, I failed the roll. This means I need to Pay the Price. The other thing is that I rolled doubles on the Challenge Dice, which is always a crit...in this case, it's a critical failure.



Now this is where things get tricky. The most obvious option here is that I get jumped by one of the spiders. I wouldn't be near their lair, because that would actually work to my advantage since that's the end of my journey. I might be jumped by one of them but still have to track the other one down, but I feel like fighting two creatures one at a time is easier than two at once, so that's not really crit-fail worthy. Let's roll for it and see what comes up.

Pay the Price: 1d100=8

"A person or community you care about is exposed to danger." Oh...oh, I think I have a good one for this.

quote:

Asha knows how to move silently through the woods. Those hunters who don't generally don't last long. Even Drake knows how to stay quiet. The beasts she hunts know it too; prey is easily spooked, after all.

So it's a bit of a surprise when she hears something coming up behind her and making no attempt to be quiet.

The hunter quickly finds a hiding spot in the foliage, guiding Drake to a supporting position with a quick hand signal. She waits; a good hunter knows how to keep still, too.

She watches a figure approach through the trees, carrying a sword and stumbling over every available root and stone possible. And her eyes widen in recognition.

"Parella?" She stood up quickly before the other woman got too close, but Parella still jumped back in surprise and raised the sword with obvious difficulty. "What the hell are you doing out here?"

Parella lowered the sword, trying to look defiant through her grief. "What do you think I'm doing? I'm here to help you kill the beasts that ki...killed my..." For a moment she looks on the verge of tears again, but she managed to keep it together. "I'm here to help you."

Asha stared at her, trying not to just yell. "Are you cr...I mean, Parella. This is dangerous! I don't even know what I'm hunting yet. Do you even know how to use that sword?"

The farmer raised her chin. "I know enough."

"So no, then."

Parella's jaw set. "I'm helping you and that's that. Would you rather I just sat doing nothing and waited for you to come back?"

There was a pause. "Yes! That's exactly what I expect! That's why I'm here! To be the one who does this stuff so people like you don't get hurt!"

As soon as the words left her mouth, she knew it was the wrong thing to say. Parella's eyes narrowed. "You didn't do your job for Sayer, did you," she asks coldly.

Asha paused once again. She didn't have time for this; she certainly didn't have time to bring Parella back to the village and risk the trail getting cold. "Fine. But listen to me: I'm the one who knows how this works. You need to listen to me and follow my lead, understand?"

Parella just nods. Drake finally comes out of his hiding spot and pads over to Parells, who looks down, smiles slightly, and scratches his head. Drake turns to face his owner and sits next to Parella with the air of a guardian.

Asha looks down at him and sighs. "Traitor."
Yeah, this just got a bit more complicated.

NEXT TIME: Escort mission

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



O my god those recipes are such a trash fire.

This is a whole new axis for me being mad at Monte Cook. I feel like the kid in The Indian in the Cupboard but instead of a magical world it's rage at really lovely cooking advice.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

theironjef posted:

Here's the dip recipe I use when I host friends for a night of gaming, because I am not a fan of putting out big bland bowls of cream.
What's your pork tenderloin recipe

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Halloween Jack posted:

What's your pork tenderloin recipe

Recently because I have a baby and am tired I mostly just herb it up, sear it to brown, then throw it in a slow cooker with root beer to almost cover for 7 hours or so, drain, shred, mix in bbq sauce, and serve with asian slaw and rolls. But the old recipe involved slivering garlic and using a knife to basically poke a thousand garlic sliver holes in the tenderloin. Then .. I haven't made this in a year... build a mix of equal parts chopped thyme and rosemary, salt/pepper, dried onion, and olive oil, rub to coat, put in a baking dish, bake at 350 for 45 minutes. Remove, wait 7 minutes before slicing, serve.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Root beer? Really?

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Xiahou Dun posted:

Root beer? Really?

To make pulled pork? Sure! It's basically just a prepackaged sweet brine. You can use whatever soda, the recipe I pulled it from suggested Dr. Pepper. The finished product doesn't take like root beer, just tastes like sugar, acid and sodium were sucked way down into the meat and broke it down real good. When I make carnitas out of a pork shoulder I just squeeze a bunch of lemons, oranges, and limes into the slow cooker, does the same thing.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



theironjef posted:

To make pulled pork? Sure! It's basically just a prepackaged sweet brine. You can use whatever soda, the recipe I pulled it from suggested Dr. Pepper. The finished product doesn't take like root beer, just tastes like sugar, acid and sodium were sucked way down into the meat and broke it down real good. When I make carnitas out of a pork shoulder I just squeeze a bunch of lemons, oranges, and limes into the slow cooker, does the same thing.

I always did a garlic and vinegar brine, but hey, weirder poo poo has worked. Maybe I'll try that next time.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
Directions for packaged country ham often say to fry it in cola. I prefer to just mix brown sugar and water, but the result is more or less the same. My wife insists that carnitas must always be slow-cooked in Mexican beer and lime juice.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



We are so profoundly off topic, but this carne asada recipe has been both a blessing and a curse. It's delicious and a big hit, but ever since I made it the first time it's become everyone's favorite and I have to make it constantly, like some kind of Sisyphean punishment.

The recipe lies though and you should make tons of the marinade to reserve as a sauce, not just half. Just go crazy.

kommy5
Dec 6, 2016
I prefer baking, myself. But putting down a pizza at a gaming table is almost traditional, even if it's unusual to make it yourself from scratch. Cookies are also a good bet. I'm just thankful none of my friends or family refuse gluten. Plus baking a pizza in a pan is surprisingly low effort especially if you have a machine to knead the dough for you.


And now I'm hungry.

More on topic, it's interesting that Ironsworn seems more focused as a narrative generation engine than anything else. And while I like that as an idea, I'll be curious how long it can go before it gets stale or repetitive.

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JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!
Food derails. Food derails never change.

Ironsworn is probably the worst game for me since I don't like the "the players are creating the world as they play" aspect for story games, and this one is meant for just one person.

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