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Joe Slowboat posted:A fun monster they ought to steal from Rajaniemi is the All-Defector, an intelligence with a theory of mind that is more efficient and accurate than actually thinking, so it can precisely simulate your behavior with less effort and computation than you took to think and act in the first place. It always wins prisoner dilemma situations by convincing the opponent to cooperate then betraying them, every time, and is implied to not be fully sentient. Except there's a simple way to beat such things - don't communicate with it and just  the drat thing as soon as you've detected it. It's trivial to beat, if you know it exists. There is always a gameplan to beat things like that, even if it's just 'flip the loving table'.Sounds like a novel exsurgent only slight, TBH - or just a good Psi, as you don't need to emulate when you can read.
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Aug 25, 2019 17:56
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Joe Slowboat posted:You do realize the Transporter Problem is one reasonable people can disagree on, right? Bundle theory is right there, after all, and would side with the resleevers. bundle theory is just a way of saying 'yeah well you might be dying all the time so what does it matter if you die properly?'. continuity of consciousness is the only way we can be sure. we might change over time, and we might experience lapses in consciousness, but we accept these as part of the natural state of self. dying and having a digital simulacra constructed from a map of neurons is not remotely comparable to sleep or unconsciousness. there's no way to verify anything like bundle theory, as the 'self' in this context is only perceivable by the individual. the copy might hop out of the transporter and say 'hey it's real i'm totally intact' cause they think they are. bundle theory has always come off as just a gussied up version of the soul, and we can no more verify it than we can verify the idea of a soul. I would prefer it to be true but it's not science.
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Aug 25, 2019 17:57
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Night10194 posted:Things that perfectly predict your mind and then whatever because they knew what you'd do are actually pretty boring to deal with in RPGs. Or novels. The All-D actually almost never does that, because its focus is weird and specific. It's much more like a weird mimic monster than a perfect mastermind; once you actually get near it and talking to it you're kind of screwed, but it has no sense of a larger-scale world because that's not how it thinks - everything is a prisoner's dilemma to it, and a major part of the plot is the Defector taking over a faction/posthuman city then immediately throwing everything into chaos by applying its ideas to the universe and starting a pointless war. In an RPG I would just model it as mind-reading kind of things, with some reaction bonuses and some oppressive effects in its immediate vicinity where it can actually handle the interaction in the way it prefers. Not as 'actually the mastermind already had a plan' more something like 'it can hear the table chat when you're in a scene with it and acts accordingly' or something. (The protagonist manages to paralyze it by getting it to recursively model him modeling himself modeling himself etc, relying on the fact that it has such an efficient theory of mind that it would have no need for the kind of shortcuts humans take ... and thus would effectively instantiate an arbitrarily large number of the protagonist's mind, all of whom effectively now exist in the virtual space they're in. One of them figures out something to distract the All-D long enough to metaphorically shoot it while it's thinking). E: I'm not claiming the All-D is some kind of Threat Omega unstoppable thing, just weird in the same way as the Hollow or whatever the ego slime is called. EP could stand to steal more stuff like that, rather than really generic threats. EE: Pretty sure the point of Bundle Theory is that continuity of consciousness is already an illusion, as they argue. I'm agnostic on the point, but it's a respected theory in philosophy of mind. It's the opposite of a soul, in any case, because it holds there is no ego at all, just a bunch of things that when bundled together can be called a certain person (so if you replicate all those elsewhere it's the same person, and with changes you just get s near variant of the same. No identity, therefore, no fuss!) Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 18:04
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Night Horrors: Shunned by the Moon Cannibalism Monster Count: Two In the early 2000s, a massive werewolf nightmare erupted in Russia and China - a storm of brutal cannibal werewolves. These wolves, known as the Cull, drew forth terrible secrets from the dead. They were of no Tribe and they fought both Pure and Forsaken. In the years since, they have risen to the status of major faction in the region, reltnlessly assaulting their victims and growing more powerful with each one they consume. Their twisted philosophy states that it is necessary to winnow out the weak among the werewolves, who are far too numerous. The natural forces of predation are failing, and like Wolf did once, today's werewolves have fallen from greatness by becoming too complacent in their strength. Balance must be restored with mass death. Until the coming of the Cull, very few werewolves knew of the existence of Ghost Wolf Devourers. Theirs is a profane, bloody path of enlightenment, in which they tear divine power from the flesh and guts of their kin. Until the Cull, their existence traced back to ancient cannibal wolf-witches, and their numbers had dwindled to a tiny handful using vile rites passed down from teacher to student. All traditionalist Devourers are strong-willed sorcerers of flesh and spirit. Their souls are carved to mimic the nature of the hunger that drives spirits to devour each other. Some believe that the autophagous urges of the Hosts are a map to divine union and power, that they may regain the lost power of Wolf which has been diluted by generations of unworthy children. Several of these traditionalists claim a lineage that they trace all the way back to Pangaea and its ancient pacts. The Cull, on the other hand, are a modern synthesis of several of these Devourer traditions, mixed in with their own warped belief systems drawn off human understandings of harmony and balance. The Cull believe that taking power from those they eat is the key to their sacred task, rather than a blasphemy. They believe it honors the prey and exalts Wolf. After they win a battle, they conduct a horrific cannibal feast, in which they tear flesh and meat from still-living victims, handing it out to followers in their groups in gore-soaked banquets. Most Devourers work in covens rather than packs. They are nof formally bound by pack bond and have no totem spirit, but their associations are tight due to their shared faith and their understanding of the communion of flesh. The Cullt supports several covens, each made of about a dozen or so full Devourers, who are supported by Ghost Wolf packs that wish to be initiated into the mysteries of the cannibal. Old Devourer traditions may still lurk on the edges of werewolf society, hiding their blasphemies, but the Cull are an open army. Other werewolves in Russia and China are now forced to stand together or die, torn apart by the cannibals. Some packs even choose to bend their knee to the Cull and submit rather than face them and be annihilated and consumed. The key ability of the Devourers, which converts the user into one, is the Devour rite. It is a potent, five-dot rite that requires the practitioner to consume the flesh of another werewolf. They can be alive or dead, but if alive, they must die as part of the rite. Once complete, the ritemaster absorbs the victim's spirit and, if they weren't one already, becomes a Devourer. Further uses of the Devour Rite either reveal new cannibal enlightenments or extend the duration of those you already have. Rumors exists of Forsaken Devourers, not Ghost Wolves, and they are true. These ghoulish wolves break the normal rules of the Devourer philosophies out of a belief that the ends justify the means. They forsake all morals and rules of the Forsaken, even working with Bale Hounds or committing terrible atrocities in order to gain the edge they need for whatever "greater good" they think is worth it. These are known as Argent Ghouls, and some of them even seem to receive sanction and teaching in the Devour Rite from potent Lunes...but no other Lunes will even admit that they exist. It is not entirely unclear what this specific Lune is doing or how much Luna and her other servants know about the Argent Ghouls. Devourers rarely find any spirit willing to accept them as packmates, so they don't generally have totems. Generally. The Cull claim no great spiritual patron, either. But something is meddling with them, granting them strange visions while they are deep in meditation. Most recently, these visions are calling them towards the sea, and to other liminal spaces where land and water meet. The Cull gathers now to attempt assaults on Macau and Hong Kong, while elsewhere, early converts arrive on foreign shores to spread the cannibal gospel to other Ghost Wolves. They find themselves strangely invigorated by their sea-based journeys. (I, Mors, note that this seems to suggest some kind of tie to something like the Lamprey Hosts whom we'll meet later on and who are super into blood, death and weirdo cults.) Sometimes, though, the creation of a Devourer goes wrong. Sometimes, a would-be Devourer hears a whisper in their mind, telling them to eat their own name, swallowing it entirely. They come out the other side of the rite as horrific, gibbering wolf-shadows, and none can recall who they were before. Sometimes, the victim's power overwhelms the practitioner, causing their body to collapse in a mass of gore and quicksilver energies. The rarest failures are those who somehow fail to contain the metaphysical energies of the blood sacrament, and instead mutate. Sometimes they become geryo, sometimes strange, shambling husks whose presence numbs the mind and robs victims of memories of self. None of these failed apotheoses are common, but all hvae occurred. It turns out it's kind of dangerous to willfully gently caress with your own basic nature. So how do Devourers work differently than normal Ghost Wolves? Here's how: 1. Once you become a Devourer, with the exception of the Argent Ghouls noted above, you are permanently unable to join a pack or Tribe, as your cannibal predations spiritually isolate you. You gain affinity with the Gift of Hunger, and your Renown brands glow sickly yellow-green when visible. 2. You no longer gain Renown as gifts from spirits; it just boils out of your soul as a form of spiritual pus when you perform appropriate deeds. 3. You may now gain enlightenments, which are potent secrets derived from the physical and spiritual communion with the innards and soul of another werewolf. Enlightenments last six months each unless boosted further by use of the Devour Rite. Your enlightenments are limited by Primal Urge. The enlightenments are abiilities gained from the flesh and marrow of your victims, which you use in unholy communion with ancient, legendary bodhisattva-predators. Devourers, traditionalist or Cull, are not just looking for raw power, after all. They are seeking literal enlightenment, seeking to consume enough of Wolf's ancient Essence to become something greater. The following Enlightenments have been noted: Blazing Majesty: While in any form that is not either full human or full wolf, you get a bonus to Presence and Resolve based on Glory. Cannibalism makes you brave and charismatic. Blood of the Great Predator: You regenerate faster based on Purity. (This is very good!) Forge Spawn: You can spend a bunch of Essence to vomit up a rank 1 hunger spirit, which will serve you loyally for a year and a day before it wanders off to do its own thing. You can have several of these limited by Primal Urge. (Not as good as it sounds - rank 1 spirits kinda suck.) From the Jaws of Defeat: The first time you would be defeated each scene, no matter how or how completely, you come back from an unepxected angle and are completely healed of all injury whatsoever. Hunter's Attunement: You can sense danger several rounds before it comes based on Cunning, no matter how impossible it'd be for you to know it. Implacable Hunter: Whenever a supernatural obstacle or barrier would block you from your prey, you can get through it with a clash of wills that you get a huge bonus on. (No, like, insanely huge.) Impossible Regeneration: You heal 1 Agg per round. Unless wounded by silver, you can heal even from a full healthbar of Agg damage. (This is nutty.) Inviolate Soul: You can spend a bunch of Essence to remove any Condition, period, no matter its source or effect. Jaws of Inevitability: When you bite someone, your target gets no Defense, armor or other defenses that would normally reduce your accuracy or damage. (This is absolutely loving insane, btw. It is the deadliest thing I can think of.) Leash the Cur: When your prey would contest you or resist you in a social action, they get a penalty to their Composure and Resolve based on Honor. Paragon of Renown: You pick a Renown. Your rolls of any pool involving that Renown get the rote quality. (This is absolutely nuts, because most of that is magic Gift powers.) Primal Form: Your dire wolf form gets a bonus to Strength and size based on your Purity. Relentless Pursuit: You can spend a bunch of Essence when chasing someone to arrive at the prey's destination before they do, regardless of any distance or obstacles. Silver Resolve: You get a bonus based on Wisdom to any values that'd be used to oppose supernatural attempts to affect or influence you. If those attempts are from prey, any failure they roll against you is a dramatic failure. (This is also insanely good!!) Sun-Chaser: You can run tirelessly during dawn or sunset, traveling across the land at the literal speed of the sun's transit without stopping or getting tired. This is...not entirely clear, but the sun's light is pretty fast! Stainless Harmony: Your Harmony rating is locked at 5 and cannot be changed, no matter what you do. Next time: Void Reivers - Werewolves From Space Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 18:05
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what's that, we're talking about a monster that eats you and uses your identity to fuel its own- oh, not like that, huh
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Aug 25, 2019 18:06
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So... these guys can cross over a time zone in a hour. Okay.
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Aug 25, 2019 18:14
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I see why the Cull are winning in their regions, those powers are wild power creep. On the other hand they seem deeply unstable, likely to accidentally make a horrible god-monster that eats them all, and possibly the bearers of a metaphysical prion disease. Not a great look.
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Aug 25, 2019 18:17
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Joe Slowboat posted:The All-D actually almost never does that, because its focus is weird and specific. It's much more like a weird mimic monster than a perfect mastermind; once you actually get near it and talking to it you're kind of screwed, but it has no sense of a larger-scale world because that's not how it thinks - everything is a prisoner's dilemma to it, and a major part of the plot is the Defector taking over a faction/posthuman city then immediately throwing everything into chaos by applying its ideas to the universe and starting a pointless war. If Firewall or the like knew about things like that.... in a setting with ubiquitous brain scanning, that thing would be hard to camouflage, if a copy of the thing's ego could be procured. Even if it's an Async, it would be an odd one, that could be detected. Something would be detectably off about it's neurology, in a distinctive way.
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Aug 25, 2019 18:17
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StratGoatCom posted:If Firewall or the like knew about things like that.... in a setting with ubiquitous brain scanning, that thing would be hard to camouflage, if a copy of the thing's ego could be procured. Even if it's an Async, it would be an odd one, that could be detected. Something would be detectably off about it's neurology, in a distinctive way. Again, I don't think the All-Defector would eat the setting. It would certainly be dangerous if it got into the hierarchy of a hypercorp (it's much much better at infiltrating/taking over hierarchies than networks) and if it was backed up with a TITAN Avatar set of skills it could probably be very dangerous, but ultimately the point is more the unease factor of 'you can be simulated much more efficiently than you think.' It basically produces delta forks of people that are just as competent as the person and make the same decisions, despite being a totally pared-down fork, and that's a weird thought that should make EP posthumans concerned. And also that a hypercorp would absolutely try to obtain like Weyland-Yutani chasing a xenomorph, which would end horribly for everyone.
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Aug 25, 2019 18:22
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Joe Slowboat posted:I see why the Cull are winning in their regions, those powers are wild power creep.
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Aug 25, 2019 19:08
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Joe Slowboat posted:Again, I don't think the All-Defector would eat the setting. It would certainly be dangerous if it got into the hierarchy of a hypercorp (it's much much better at infiltrating/taking over hierarchies than networks) and if it was backed up with a TITAN Avatar set of skills it could probably be very dangerous, but ultimately the point is more the unease factor of 'you can be simulated much more efficiently than you think.' It just so happens that there is a TITAN that was specialized in modelling specific human beings, the computing cluster known under the Firewall reporting name 'Akonus' Akonus TITAN profile posted:Akonus seems to be unique in that it was also built If there's anything in EP that could do that, it would be an Akonus fetch, I wager. Indeed, it may have already done so. Fundamentally, a single monster manual was a bad design choice for EP 1.0. They should have taken a leaf out of FF's book and had a specific sourcebook for each major threat, ala the threats from within, outside and beyond Dark Heresy books, so some real detail could be given to the TITANS, the exsurgents, Exhumans and more 'mundane' threats like Space Dracula. StratGoatCom fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 19:11
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Joe Slowboat posted:Also I really feel like it's, shall we say, a but rich to go "look at this example of horror writing in the setting about rich people being awful to their children - Exlipse Phase never uses the setting to tell horror stories like Thing is for every one time EP actually gets close to what's genuinely horrifying about the setting, it lurches back towards: "Ah, but actually you're meant to be shooting space monsters on HEROIC FIREWALL MISSIONS.  " And all it does with the "this is how it changes our society"-angle is pretty much "this is how it solves what we perceive as our existing societal problems in really cool and woke ways kthx." but fundamentally it's still extremely recognizably our society just with NANOFACTORIES slapped on top and a sidebar insisting that Autism Is Good Now.StratGoatCom posted:While being completely fuckawful at minority issues in the process - their section on ethnic minorities is very telling - to quote a friend of mine Also it may just be me but it feels like the character art leans a lot towards being Whitey McWhiterson in general. I don't actually recall a section specifically addressing minorities in EP2, but it feels like the human morphs are just generally... incredibly unimaginative. They're just Strong Human, Sex Human, Child Human, Smart Human, Cancer Human, Machine Human. There's basically nothing on like... extensive bodymodding in general. No one's sleeving themselves as Ball of Arms Man, no one's sleeving themselves as their loving fursona or angelsona or dragonsona or vampiresona. Synths are marginally more interesting but still suffer from being mostly just Metal Man, Smart Metal Man, Pretty Metal Man. Though actually, let's talk about minorities and resleeving. Like what about a black person resleeving as white to get away from racism? Or maybe in general someone being forced to resleeve as another ethnicity because there are no bodies of their birth ethnicity around. It may be a can of worms no one wants to poke at because it'd be hard to handle in a respectful way, but there are layers to engage with there. Hardcore racists insisting that your original ethnicity be noted in your papers, non-resleevers feeling it's a betrayal for someone to resleeve as the majority skin colour "just to get ahead," etc. You could write an entire story about that but instead it feels like mostly EP just ignores that racism was ever a thing.
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Aug 25, 2019 20:04
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StratGoatCom posted:
Combat drugs, a heart condition, and no respawning. Also looks like the Just Cause guy, kinda. And I guess the response to the continuity of self issue for me personally would be...I don't care?  Sure, that copy is me, why not. I'm pretty sure complete indifference to the whole question would also be a sufficiently large (non)opinion.
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Aug 25, 2019 20:30
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Ronwayne posted:And I guess the response to the continuity of self issue for me personally would be...I don't care? “Fascinating and all, what about me and my kids not dying in the streets? I’m resleeving for a job, I don’t have the wealth and privilege to give a poo poo”
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Aug 25, 2019 20:50
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Night Horrors: Shunned by the Moon Space Werewolves From Space Werewolves exist for a purpose. Explicitly. Wolf and Moon created them to be hunters and guardians. Wolf's dead, yes, but Moon's still arounmd, and she still expects the Forsaken, at least, to serve. However, even such a well-made tool has flaws. Void Reivers are one more expression of those flaws. Beyond the light of the Warden Moon is the dead void. From here to the distant stars, there is...nothing. Literally nothing. Huge expanses of the stuff. We call it space, and to spirits it is the Void Beyond. It should be without life. It is not. Strange things exist out in that emptiness, born of void and dark. They do not understand or comprehend their own existence. But still, they strive, these void spirits. The small ones gibber forth from the dark, while the immense leviathans of nothigneness awaken from their journeys through the void as they get close to the shining light of Earth. The rays of Helios, the sun spirit, push them back, hurl them down. But still they come, these ancient angels of the void, serving feuds from the long-forgotten past of prehistory, feuds that burn through the bedrock of the planets and their Shadow mirrors. For the most part, Moon keeps them out. She's good at it. Sometimes, however, one of the void spirits makes it through the Warden's Stride - that is, the lunar orbit. Most of them find mere existence in the Shadow of a place where existence, uh, exists intensely confusing. They find Earth's Shadow alien and confusing. Some of them go on rampages, but end up starving for lack of void Essence. Some of them flee immediately, but are inevitably drawn back again, no matter how much it hurts them. A very rare few, however, do something else. These void spirits pupate and metastasize, forming a sort of reality cocoon in which they begin to change. They need it, because werewolves that still bear a lunar Auspice feel very intense instincts when they face a void spirit. These ancient instincts and spiritual programs well up in their soul, placed there in ancient times by Moon. They are not compelled, quite, but on a fundamental level they feel a hunger to hunt, bring down and annihilate the void spirits. This would be fine, except it's 2019, not the age of prehistory. Things have changed. Exposure to the void spirits causes a werewolf's body to go through some intense spiritual reactions. They begin to radiate spiritual power in an effort to purge the intense alien wrongness from the worlds of Flesh and Shadow. However, the Gauntlet exists now, and that kind of spiritual purging is actually no longer possible. Forsaken draw strength from the Firstborn, and that shields them - when their soul opens up to purge the void Essence around them, the Firstborns' power steps in and prevents the void from seeping through. Ghost Wolves, of course, lack such protections. Occasionally, Ghost Wolves purposefully summon or hunt void spirits in search of their alien power. Ancient, rather blasphemous Lodges exist for them, with totemic guardians that give at least some protection from the Void Beyond's taint. The wolves that join them become able to consume the void spirits relatively safely, drinking of their bizarre Essence to delve into deep mysteries of the Void. For those Ghost Wolves who are not so lucky to find and join these Lodges, especially those who only accidentally run into the alien spirits of space, a far worse fate awaits. Their instinctive urge to destroy the void spirits and the spiritual purging their bodies uselessly attempt mean that when they bite into a void spirit, its alien Essence attacks them, flowing into them like a virus. Void spirits tend to be starving to begin with, and they react to the werewolf's spirit nature by attempting to devour it as well. This channels their spirits together, forming a transmutational crucible as the void blindly attempts to hijack the werewolf's spirit to feed itself and the werewolf's Essence tries to consume and purge the spirit. The void contagion isn't malicious or evil, of course. Void spirits don't understand those ideas; hell, most spirits have trouble with them, let alone alien space spirits who find the idea of "physical things that exist" confusing and alarming. It's just an attempt to survive. It still produces horrific results. The void infection roots itself in the werewolf's spirit, creating a buzz of strange, wordless thoughts in the mind that push the ideas of need, transcendent union and the insane, incomprehensible concepts of the void. The infection progresses into the eyes, turning them black. They flicker only with starlight, and by the time this happens, the Ghost Wolf can no longer be cured. The darkness creeps through their flesh as well as their spirit, rooting itself now in the hunger of the werewolf. The spiritual emptiness overwrites the werewolf's body and rebuilds their soul to better serve the void hunger. The infection spreads trough hte body like a cancer, slowly unbinding the werewolf from the fabric of reality. The werewolf's idea of reality crumbles with their body's grip on it, and they enter a state that is...not quite Twilight, but similar. It exists on an emptier, deeper "frequency" of existence. They perceive the world only in thin, gray, dark tones, and the hunger overtakes their senses. They have become a void reiver. Void reivers crave Essence. Their hunger can never be fed, and they are driven to gorge on the purest forms of spiritual resonance. Human and wolf flesh provide them little to nothing, and the Essence that forms the body of a spirit is too thick and heavy with symbolic meaning imposed on it by Earth. A Reiver must have the distilled, purified Essence of a Locus, or the refined energies of rituals and magic. Thus, they hunt and raid these things. A Reiver drains loci and drinks them up, as well as stalking rituals to steal their power and consume it. This quickly drains all power from the local Shadow, reducing it to a dead, barran spiritual landscape that vaguely resembles the Void Beyond. Unfortunately, killing the void spirit that is now living alongside the Reiver does nothing helpful. In fact, it makes things worse. While the spirit lives, it guides the Reivers it creates. The Essence they devour is fed into it, processed through the spiritual hybrid state of the infected metabolism. The Reivers serve as a bridge between the intensity of reality and the Void. While these Reivers are essentially slave to their infection's instincts, they at least have a purpose and a drive. Without the spirit to guide them, they lose all reasoning ability. Unfortunately, most Reivers have already lost their parasitic companion, generally having killed it when they first met it and became infected. They have a hunger they can't feed, and nothing they do can make it feel better. They lack anything but the roughest memory of who they once were, and their body has been hijacked by a mix of their own divine instinct and the void's survival drive. Their infection can be spread by the bite, as well, and through the symbolic link of the Sacred Hunt - regardless of if the Reiver is predator or prey. Sometimes, entire packs of Reivers will gather, fighting other packs for control of Loci, fetishes or sacred grounds so they can drain them of power like locusts in a field. In the best cases, a Reiver can manage brief periods of lucidity just long enough to hold a conversation or bargain for access to Essence. When in a pack, however, Reivers work silently and in perfect union, thanks to the unitiving drive of the void hunger. Fortunately, Void Reivers are extremely rare. Void spirits rarely make it past the Warden's Stride, after all. Few werewolves know much about the Reivers at all, let alone if they can be cured. The infection, if caught in its incubatory phase, before it consumes the eyes, can be stopped. It requires strong will, the support of a pack, and sufficient Essence to keep the void spirit's hunger in chekc for a while. EVen then, however, there's risks - once the void cancer sets, the Reiver will immediately see all other werewolves only as vectors of Essence to devour. Void Reiver infections are often accompanied by chaos and disaster in the flesh world. Some believe that this is where the "black dog of ill omen" myths began, and it is theorized by the few in the know that void spirits are attracted to these disasters when they exit orbit, or perhaps that the spiritual desolation the Reivers cause is the source of those disasters. The Reivers also may or may not have ties to UFO abduction stories. This is because, besides draining Essence, Reivers occasionally kidnap humanss and drag them to their void spirit master in Shadow. Void spirits ppear to find humans fascinating in their lack of spiritual reflection, potentially seeing some kind of echo or Void resonance in them. These abductees are not usually harmed, but a few vanish entirely from the world afterwards, leaving behind only sloughed-off skin. There also may or may not be some tie to dark things buried deep in the earth. Some werewolves theorize that void leviathans exist, imprisoned deep in the stone. Their evidence is that, over the past few centuries, there have been several mass migrations of Void Reivers following large geological activity. The Reivers move in unison, going so far as to desert any void spirits they have and leave their territories, heading across the world for unknown purpose. Once they reach their destination, they seek out routes to enter the ground, descending into the dark. There are no reports of them after this happens. So how do Void Reivers differ mechanically? Here's how: 1. Void Reivers gain an affinity for the Gift of Hunger, but lose access to their Moon Gifts and Auspice abilities entirely, as these are smopthered by the alien void Essence in their soul. 2. A Reiver's Essence pool doubles, but they lose Essence every day based on their Primal Urge. They also gain a persistent Addiction Condition related to Essence. 3. Anyone who has an Essence pool loses Essence whenever they are bitten by a Void Reiver, and also the cost of any Essence expenditures they perform increases for the rest of the scene. 4. Reivers can sense the location of any nearby Locus, fetish or active rite. They may drain up to 10 Essence per turn out of a Locus, and any Locus they drain permanently loses at least some of its power. If drained entirely, it becomes a Barren. 5. A Void Reiver may consume the effects of a rite or the power of a fetish. This takes a few turns, but permanently destroys the effects of that particular rite or depowers the fetish entirely. The GM may allow this also work on other kinds of magic. 6. Void Reivers are no longer fully in phase with reality. They leave no trace of their passage, and their blood is only a thin oil that quickly boils off to nothing. In any area of darkness or shadow, they heal twice as fast as usual, and they are much harder to locate or influence with magic than normal werewolves. 7. Void Reivers get the advanced action quality on Stealth rolls - which is basically Advantage, they roll twice and take the better roll. 8. Void Reivers gain the power to teleport between areas of shadow and darkness. When they do, all lights and elctronics nearby immediately turn off, go out or otherwise disconnect and cannot be used for several turns. Next time: Mimics.
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Aug 25, 2019 20:50
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Like I said, it's something they absolutely have to take on faith to exist as they do. And it's fine for that to be the answer for most people. Lots of people take lots of things on faith. Though the idea that you would experience the world fundamentally differently on a different set of sensory hardware, etc is also cool to explore.
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Aug 25, 2019 20:55
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AmiYumi posted:“But what about continuity of self?”
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Aug 25, 2019 20:57
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In the infancy of RPGs, Car Wars / Autoduel actually dealt with some of these issues, as cloning yourself (with "braintaping" to copy the mind) was introduced as an expensive kludge to maintain PCs with replacement bodies despite the game's lethality. A decent amount of fiction went around, of course, the notion of things like clones being activated "early" as "doppelgangers", getting put into the wrong body, getting your memories interfered with, etc. Not that it was often "transhuman", but it's interesting to at least realize this kind of sci-fi theme was poked around with extensively back in the '80s. Not something you'd expect for a tongue-in-cheek vehicle game, in retrospect.
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Aug 25, 2019 21:21
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Ronwayne posted:Combat drugs, a heart condition, and no respawning. Also looks like the Just Cause guy, kinda. i mean its not an academic issue, its literally life or death for you if you're in a setting where it's in a position to be tested.
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Aug 25, 2019 21:34
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Unless its not? Plenty of things used to be a lot more serious and dire before modern medical tech. Diabetes used to pretty much be a death sentence, until it wasn't. If death is now a boo boo you can probably walk away from, the stakes go down considerably. This is kinda sounding like "What about the Immortal Soul?" argument, when again, my answer is, eh Plus, if you've resleeved multiple times or are part of that group of folks that farcast regularly, you've died dozens of times. Dying once and coming back might be a philosophical condumdrum, dying and coming back 12 times means its tuesday. A ghost that's un-un-un-undead is probably a lot more chill about it than one who's just undead. Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 21:42
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Space vampire werewolves, not to be confused with space werewolf vampires.
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Aug 25, 2019 21:46
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StratGoatCom posted:While being completely fuckawful at minority issues in the process - their section on ethnic minorities is very telling - to quote a friend of mine: There was a section in Sunward mentioning that an Indonesian habitat was rife with anti-Chinese racism on account of most of them being Fall infugees who got bought out by a Chinese hypercorp and are in effective indentured servitude. The Firewall op writing the section mentioned to be careful on account that he was called "chi*k" by a group of angry men. This reminded me of Shadowrun which insists that real-world racism is a thing of a past...but only in Western countries, what with the Japanese Empire discriminating against conquered Asian territories.
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Aug 25, 2019 21:50
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Ronwayne posted:Unless its not? Plenty of things used to be a lot more serious and dire before modern medical tech. Diabetes used to pretty much be a death sentence, until it wasn't. If death is now a boo boo you can probably walk away from, the stakes go down considerably. This is kinda sounding like "What about the Immortal Soul?" argument, when again, my answer is, eh It’s more that if continuity matters, then even if your clone thinks it’s you after being activated when you die in a car crash, you’re still just as dead.
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Aug 25, 2019 21:50
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But again, so? That clone wants to be me, he's me. Hell, if the clone gets activated and is walking around while I'm still breathing that's gonna be mildly weird, but after figuring out names and roommate situations its fine too. The concept of the Self as a vital point of self image and identity is not universal.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:00
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Ronwayne posted:But again, so? That clone wants to be me, he's me. Hell, if the clone gets activated and is walking around while I'm still breathing that's gonna be mildly weird, but after figuring out names and roommate situations its fine too. The “so” is you’re dead still. It doesn’t really matter what else. You’re dead.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:01
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Death is basically a sick-day at EP's levels of medical tech, so I'm not seeing the conundrum here. It loses a huge chunk of philosophical importance at least for me. Yeah, I had a cold, went to a doc, and got better. Sick-me doesn't exist anymore, but that's good, because being sick sucks.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:02
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Ronwayne posted:Death is basically a sick-day at EP's levels of medical tech, so I'm not seeing the conumdrum here. It loses a huge chunk of philosophical importance at least for me. No, that’s it, it’s not, if continuity of consciousness matters.thats the whole point. You’re dead. Forever. Some other guy, who happens to share your name and memories but was just born, is arounD and everyone else is acting like that’s you. That doesn’t matter to you, because you’re dead. E: iPad keyboard sucks
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Aug 25, 2019 22:04
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But I don't think continuity matters, and the people that do in EP are by and large no longer around. Hell, I think a clone thinking its me and walking around while I'm still alive is fine too, once the legal identity issue gets sorted.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:06
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If continuity of consciousness matter, you're dead pretty much every time you pass out, and maybe even get asleep.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:09
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Greg Egan’s Diaspora is another excellent book dealing with transhumanity, forking, and questions of identity. He invents a bunch of physics so the book can be kind of hard to get into at first but the payoff is worth it.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:11
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Gantolandon posted:If continuity of consciousness matter, you're dead pretty much every time you pass out, and maybe even get asleep. Except that's bullshit, and will never cease to be bullshit used in disingenuous argumentation, so...
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Aug 25, 2019 22:20
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EimiYoshikawa posted:Except that's bullshit, and will never cease to be bullshit used in disingenuous argumentation, so... And the French call orgasms “the little death” so I don’t know, maybe the nofap guys are onto something after all.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:34
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Ronwayne posted:But I don't think continuity matters, and the people that do in EP are by and large no longer around. Hell, I think a clone thinking its me and walking around while I'm still alive is fine too, once the legal identity issue gets sorted. It was pointed out earlier that there is tech in the EP universe that lets you resleeve while conscious all the time, specifically to address continuity concerns. So presumably there are some such people. Yea, death/cloning can’t really have continuity. Certainly not with forking to worry about too.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:36
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Yeah, there's a lot of room for "moderate bioconservatism" for people that don't wanna be ball-of-arms man, one of my other PCs just upgrated his flat body to a splicer while still in it.EimiYoshikawa posted:Except that's bullshit, and will never cease to be bullshit used in disingenuous argumentation, so... People who flatline for a minute or two before being resuscitated are still considered to be the same folks when they come back. Just extend the time period and remove having the same body requirements. Having doctors and scientists who can yank people out of god's waiting room becomes just another part of life.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:41
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Ronwayne posted:But again, so? That clone wants to be me, he's me. Hell, if the clone gets activated and is walking around while I'm still breathing that's gonna be mildly weird, but after figuring out names and roommate situations its fine too. The concept of the Self as a vital point of self image and identity is not universal.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:43
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Continuity of consciousness and the transporter discourse is bullshit that I absolutely hate and I hate EP even more for making me have to see it again, and I'm mad that Star Trek didn't just punt folks through subspace or something so as to avoid that gong show.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:47
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Terrible Opinions posted:So the Thing is only horror in your book because of what happens if the new body is threatened? The Thing is clearly not a good analogy, judging by its proclivities for eating people, surviving exposed to antarctic winter, and drinking gasoline. It's just capable of being a near-perfect actor. A perfect and unaltered copy of one's mind wouldn't be an actor.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:51
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Ronwayne posted:Death is basically a sick-day at EP's levels of medical tech, so I'm not seeing the conundrum here. It loses a huge chunk of philosophical importance at least for me. Yeah, I had a cold, went to a doc, and got better. Sick-me doesn't exist anymore, but that's good, because being sick sucks. no it means you are literally dead. there's just a copy of you walking around, you have ceased to be. StratGoatCom posted:Continuity of consciousness and the transporter discourse is bullshit that I absolutely hate and I hate EP even more for making me have to see it again, and I'm mad that Star Trek didn't just punt folks through subspace or something so as to avoid that gong show. it's an important issue for anything involving transhumanity, its gonna come up forever
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Aug 25, 2019 22:55
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Terrible Opinions posted:So the Thing is only horror in your book because of what happens if the new body is threatened? I would hope that "Violation and assault on others is bad" was an unspoken part of this debate. If someone/thing is going about doing such things without getting full, informed, uncoerced, enthusiastic consent from all participants, yes, bring on the flamethrowers.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:58
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Ronwayne posted:Yeah, there's a lot of room for "moderate bioconservatism" for people that don't wanna be ball-of-arms man, one of my other PCs just upgrated his flat body to a splicer while still in it. oh so if its a completely different situation where a replica is constructed of you out of information and put into a new body, it's totally the same as flatlining. flatlining isn't even brain death though, which is what we're talking about in this situation. nobody comes back from brain death.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:59
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