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Cythereal posted:America was generally pretty restrained in that regard, though. Except for a few things like Project Habakkuk. Which was British... but the US did manage to invent the bat bomb: "Bat bombs were an experimental World War II weapon developed by the United States. The bomb consisted of a bomb-shaped casing with over a thousand compartments, each containing a hibernating Mexican Free-tailed Bat with a small timed incendiary bomb attached. Dropped from a bomber at dawn, the casings would deploy a parachute in mid-flight and open to release the bats which would then roost in eaves and attics in a 20-40 mile radius. The incendiaries would start fires in inaccessible places in the largely wood and paper construction of the Japanese cities that were the weapon's intended target."
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Jul 1, 2016 20:48
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Well, I mean, the US did have one ridiculous experimental weapon that worked out pretty well for them right at the end.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:50
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Night10194 posted:I see someone's never seen the XP55 Ascender. We pretty much left that for the Cold War. Chrysler TV-8 nuclear-powered tank?  Project Pluto? 
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Jul 1, 2016 21:00
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Cythereal posted:America was generally pretty restrained in that regard, though. Except for a few things like Project Habakkuk. Lots of people don't count the Manhattan Project (or the B-29, or the B-36) as wonderwaffen when they maybe should.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:18
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Edit: Double post.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:18
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I think to be napkinwaffe it has to be theoretical/never past prototype, which none of those were.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:20
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I feel like there also has to be an element of "visually insane". E: OK the B-36 is up there.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:32
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Kavak posted:I think to be napkinwaffe it has to be theoretical/never past prototype, which none of those were. Yeah, best examples I can think of for the Americans during WW2 would be the T-95 superheavy tank and XF-85 Goblin jet-powered parasite fighter.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:40
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There's a couple other weird projects the US did, like trying to dose Hitler's veggies with estrogen to make him more "womanly" and lose supporters from being too effeminete, and the Gay Bomb. This tells more about the mindset of the project creators.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:53
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 GAME SYSTEM Rocket Age’s system comes around kind of late in the book, which is a bit annoying but not a problem. The rules are somewhat simple and use a d6 system. Basically, if you need to do something and there’s a reasonable chance of failure/dramatic failure and you’re under pressure, you should roll.  2d6+Attribute+Skill(+/-Modifiers)=Result matched up against a Difficulty number. There are varying degrees of success or failure depending on how over or under you roll. You can choose which Attribute and Skill you use to roll but it has to make sense. Go with your gut feeling but the GM has final say.   Contested rolls are a recurring thing you’ll see in these games. Basically one person is an acting character and the other resists. The one who resists rolls first and the result sets the difficulty for the one who acts. You can also Cooperate and help someone out if you have one rank in the same skill and all you do is add a +2 bonus to their roll (up to a reasonable limit of helpers). Did you lose a conflict? That’s bad but you’re not necessarily going to get hurt. Depending on what’s at stake, you may get hurt or you may lose an argument or you may fumble a gun. There should be a sort of loss and sometimes you take damage. So what is damage? You may have noticed that there is no health pool or health track. All damage is deducted from your Attribute scores. You can split up the damage you receive and spread it across Attributes that make sense.  Injury comes in three forms: Stun, Normal and Lethal. Stun damage knocks the victim out for the rest of the scene or 1d6 minutes and deals 4 damage against armor (if it doesn’t penetrate, it’s shrugged off). Normal damage hurts Attributes and can be reduced by armor. Lethal damage outright kills and one point of Lethal is enough to kill a character. Lethal damage is marked with a L instead of a damage ranking and counts as 8 physical damage for armor or inanimate objects. Damage dealt is stable per weapon or item and increases or decreases depending on levels of success: normal damage, good damage and fantastic damage. For example: A RAY Pistol has 4/8/L for damage when not on its stun setting. A regular shot deals 4 damage, a good shot deals 8 and a really good shot instantly kills the enemy. If you remember the equipment charts for weapons, you'll see a lot of these attacks deal Lethal damage on the higher end of things or are just generally good at dealing damage. This is because physical injury is, well, dangerous and the game reflects that.  Reduced Awareness means that the character is dazzled or distracted or concussed. Reduced Coordination is exactly that, able to still stand but having trouble moving or coordinating. Reduced Ingenuity means that the character has lost their cool and is thinking irrationally or is confused. Reduced Presence means that the character's is feeling scared and timid and unable to speak. Reduced Resolve means that the character is close to giving up, feeling defeated or overwhelmed. Reduced Strength means that the character is weakened. When one Attribute is reduced to 0 from damage, it can't be used for rolls, the character is staggered and they take -2 to all rolls. Two Attributes means that the character is incapacitated somehow. Having Resolve and Strength incapacitated means that the character is beaten down and unable to muster the strength to continue without a rest. Having Presence and Awareness at zero means that the character is dazed and confused and unable to communicate, dumbfounded until they get their wits back. If three Attributes are at 0, that's really bad. This means that the character is severely injured or impaired in some way and will require the cost of a Story Point to keep them in the story and put them on the road to recovery. Insanity, fatal injuries, devastating emotional trauma and heavily impaired limbs are examples of being on the threshold of being kicked out of the story. At three Attributes at 0, the character can even be near death.  Mental damage is normally the result of a psychic attack, emotional damage or fear. Most of the time this targets Resolve to weaken the character and make them more susceptible to control. Social damage is caused by arguments, debates, seduction attempts or intimidations. Social damage has some different rules compared to the other forms. Social damage is only limited to Resolve and Presence and any injury is recovered immediately when the scene ends. Losing both Resolve and Presence means that the character is worn down and concedes. Because social damage only targets these two, you can't put a character out of a story through social combat, only impair them. Physical damage targets Strength and Coordination and might spill over to the other attributes. There are some specific rules for physical damage:
  Disease gets its own table and list and actually these diseases are interesting! Resisting disease is Strength+Resolve and requires a flat amount of successes (+/- 1/2/3 depending on success or failure). Ingenuity+Medicine can be used to add to the patient's successes (or subtract if you're a bad doctor).
 Poisons: Strength+Resolve to fight the poison and medical help can add successes to the patient's attempts to fight off the poison.
 Armor is simply subtracted from the inflicted damage. Anything that penetrates armor halves the armor reduction. Hardened armor protects against all physical damage that doesn't have Armor Penetrating. HEALING So you caught the Space Madness, got kicked around by a bunch of Martian Warriors and fell off a large rock for good measure. Let's get better! As previously mentioned, social damage heals instantly. Without medical attention, recover 1 Attribute point of damage per day of taking it easy. With medical attention, heal 1/2/3 Attribute damage (depending on success level). All damage is healed at the end of an episode. You can never take so much damage that an Attribute is permanently reduced; you might get a Bad Trait but losing a limb won't make your Strength go down for good.  STORY POINTS Story points have specific uses and using them doesn't lower your max total. Story points are gained for heroic actions, humorous roleplaying, self-sacrifice and overall driving the plot and engaging in the game. You should get 3-4 per 6 hour game session and your pool is totally refreshed at the end of a whole story. You can also add complications to the story to get story points. Example: you may be a rocket pilot but you can claim you've never flown this rocket before. The complications can only affect your character, so you can't force another character's Foe to show up to benefit you. Uses of Story Points:
 ACTION! Rocket Age uses the Vortex System which was not developed for this game, just adapted. Originally it was created for Cubicle 7's Doctor Who Adventures in Time and Space. What does this mean? Well you might have noticed that physical combat is pretty lethal and the damage system means that when one person has an advantage, they will probably keep that advantage and keep pushing the advantage. Because it was originally developed for Doctor Who, the main purpose of the system is to start with talking and escalate to violence as a last resort. This is best shown by how action and combat goes down. An Action Round is the amount of time it takes everyone to do something. Action Rounds range between two and ten seconds and is broken down into four phases: Talking, Moving, Doing, Fighting. The GM should set the scenes and sights and sounds and players and make it clear to the players what they're doing. Initiative is calculated by 1d6+the Attribute the character wants to use for their action that round. Each phase takes place in order of presentation.  Talking: Debate, diplomacy, bluffing, using your words. You can tell someone commands for their phase or try to talk enemies out of their actions before the other players open fire. Moving: Each phase can have a little bit of movement but the Moving round is for when your main action is going to be moving, jumping, running, dodging. Doing: Anything not covered by the other phases, like repairing a Gadget under fire, treating a wound, picking a lock. Fighting: Inflicting harm and damage on someone. Characters can take one action per Action Round with no issue or spread a complex action across multiple phases. When a phase passes, it passes; you can't use a non-combat skill during the Fighting phase. You can also take one free Reaction per round to dodge or parry. Multiple actions can be taken but with a cumulative -2 per action past the first. Combat goes last to emphasize other courses of action before killing people and solving problems with bullets. Attacking is generally Strength/Coordination+Skill vs. the Defender's Coordination+Skill roll to react. No reaction? It hits. The only defense beyond armor is staying out of the way of the enemy's weapons or aim. Damage depends on the Attacker's result vs. the Defender's.  Range has three increments in meters: close, medium and long. All attacks at medium range are at -2, all attacks at long are -4. You can also attack at extreme range at -6 which is double the long range. Double the ranges in a vacuum, cut them in half if it's higher gravity. Aiming a weapon requires spending the entire Action Round aiming without doing anything else then makes a roll against a DC of 12, giving +2/+4/+6 to the next attack. You can only aim for one round but can fire the aimed shot at any time in the next round.  Chases are contested rolls and you can move equal to their Speed in Areas. Being on foot is way different from being in a rocket. Chases and pursuits are somewhat abstract in their execution; the important thing is trying to catch up or get away. There are rules for doing things during chases but I don't want to split hairs too much. Vehicles work the same was as people but with things like Handling and Sensors acting as their Attributes. Vehicle Attributes limit the relevant Attributes of the drivers, so if it has poo poo handling there's only so much your own Transport skill can provide. Vehicles have Handling, Communications, Sensors and Structure.   Psychic Powers are in a league of their own, barely understood by anyone but the Europans. Most psychic powers are only line of sight and requires Resistance by the target. Gadgets are only available through purchase and permanently cost Story Points but have their own point pool. And that's it for the mechanics chapter! This really did take me quite a while to do, it's a bit hard to chew through and digest but it's interesting. I dig the fact that it allows you to be a person of action but there's a place for negotiation and using your words over killing. Your job is to fight to make the solar system a better place and if bloodshed can be avoided and minds can be changed, great! You can save fighting for when words won't work. NEXT TIME: the GM advice chapter. 
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Jul 1, 2016 21:57
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Robindaybird posted:There's a couple other weird projects the US did, like trying to dose Hitler's veggies with estrogen to make him more "womanly" and lose supporters from being too effeminete, and the Gay Bomb.
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Jul 1, 2016 22:09
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Nessus posted:The Gay Bomb was more recent, I thought. Ah, you're right - but still. If I recall, the British had an attempt for an Ice Ship to save up on iron, including throwing a prototype block into Chruchill's hot bath to show it won't melt. Then it turns out production was so prohibitively expensive and time consuming to even think about.
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Jul 1, 2016 22:20
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Robindaybird posted:Ah, you're right - but still. It was less prohibitively expensive than it was insufficiently less expensive to bother with compared to just making ships as they already had
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Jul 1, 2016 22:32
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Robindaybird posted:Ah, you're right - but still. Project Habbakuk and the amazing pycrete
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Jul 1, 2016 22:39
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LatwPIAT posted:Which was British... but the US did manage to invent the bat bomb: And the main reason Project X-ray got shelved wasn't that it was impractical (It was) or that they managed to burn down part of an air force base when some armed bats got loose (They did) but because they'd built the A-bomb and had it ready to deploy before the Bat Bomb was ready to roll out. If I ever run Night's Black Agents/Dracula Dossier it's strongly tempting to have the Vampire Conspiracy respond to too-successful agents poking around the edges of things with incendiary bat bombs. Because of course Dracula wants to burn down your house, he's a jerk. unseenlibrarian fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 22:52
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I know there was at least one plane that got all the way to the test flight stage before people realised it didn't have a way to safely land.
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Jul 1, 2016 23:59
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Night10194 posted:I see someone's never seen the XP55 Ascender. Well, the Ascender is a little basic, yeah. But it's cool, because we had the Flying Ram.  The XP-79B here has a silly sounding name, until you realize it's just literal. The Flying Ram had a superhard magnesium leading edge along its wings, and was designed to fly through enemy airplanes, to cut off their wings and tail surfaces. Also the pilot is lying down in there. I've always wanted to do a weird war game using all the ludicrous theoretical airframes from the end of the war. That german swing-swing design where instead of folding back, the wings just rotate 45 degrees along a central axis, the Triebflugl, the bombers with gunner pods mounted on the wingtips, that asymmetrical Blohm and Voss BV141, there was just so much cool stuff. Maybe mix in a little mysticism with that Nazi secret bell thing and the spear of Longinus, whatever. Just such a great setting. WW2, 1947. theironjef fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jul 2, 2016 |
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Jul 2, 2016 00:52
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theironjef posted:Well, the Ascender is a little basic, yeah. But it's cool, because we had the Flying Ram.  Need that thing in War Thunder ASAP.
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Jul 2, 2016 00:56
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The Amerikabomber was a German project to build a plane with enough range to attack the continental United States from Germany, and then come back. That's a distance of about 6 400 km. Later, this was revised to being able to attack CONUS from the Azores, reducing the trip to just 4 120 km from there to New York. In 1944, B-29s already had a range of about 5 600 km with a four-ton bomb load, with some of the farthest strikes being 3 000 km runs from Sri Lanka to Palembang. By the time the B-36 was operational, it'd have a combat radius of 6 900 km with a five-ton bomb load. So what I'm saying here is that the US did develop "wunderwaffe", it just usually doesn't get put in the same category because they worked and weren't just secret projects on drawing boards and/or prototypes.
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Jul 2, 2016 01:53
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unseenlibrarian posted:Congratulations, you just re-invented the premise of Better Angels! 
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Jul 2, 2016 05:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:The Amerikabomber was a German project to build a plane with enough range to attack the continental United States from Germany, and then come back. That's a distance of about 6 400 km. Later, this was revised to being able to attack CONUS from the Azores, reducing the trip to just 4 120 km from there to New York. Amerikabomber could have been worthwhile if they developed that prior to 1940 instead of trying to build it two years after the Battle of Britain when the Axis nations had started to suffer losses in manpower, resources, and territory. The only reason they authorized it was because Hitler and Goering thought they could put pressure on the U.S. with them, pulling anti-aircraft guns and interceptor planes back to America so they could have an easier time bombing England. The Azores? Really? The only reason they remained neutral was to keep Spain out of the war. I doubt basing bombers there would have kept them neutral for long. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jul 2, 2016 |
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Jul 2, 2016 06:02
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Hostile V posted:Yeah the sad thing is that he doesn't even get a good set of powers. I agree that he'd be better as a Tough or even as an Ace actually piloting a tank himself and doing crazy poo poo with it. Instead they make him a Genius, a power set with barely any real use against the players because how exactly is +5 to all Smarts rolls supposed to be executed when you're a Nazi commander and the PCs will never see your (nonexistent) sheet? It doesn't even give you something new to do on a narrative level! Without powers, he's a brilliant tank commander. With... he's a brilliant tank commander. Dude was treated like a superhuman genius in the press in real life. Actually making him superhuman there just takes away some of the fun failings and weaknesses. It does, however, allow the writers to keep to the theme of "Anyone important is a Delta." Because nothing makes a world feel real and lived in quite like every historical figure getting laser eyes.
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Jul 2, 2016 12:05
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I think my favorite part of crazy WWII hijinks were Germany's attempts at designing giant gently caress-off super tanks. Especially that after their first design got axed because it would've turned out to be a big, slow-moving target practice for the Allies that couldn't make use of rail transportation, bridges or even normal roads, they then decided they should attempt to make a tank that was even heavier, with pretty much the same results.theironjef posted:So we put an Afterthought episode out on Monday, and it included the listener question of "What's the dumbest thing in RPGs you see people arguing about?" I went with people arguing over fictional characters alignments. Jon went for the jugular and said "people arguing over what HP represents." We both agreed that it's a bullshit argument that no one should care about anymore. It's gone on long enough. The answer depends on the players and the edition, etc. Whatever. So far the comment thread argument about what HP is is the largest bulk of comments we've ever had. Of course. Seeing how Armor Class, the other most important combat stat, is also very abstract and somewhat non-intuitive ("What? So people have an easier time hitting me when I'm not wearing that plate armor?"), it is fascinating how some grogs can see D&D has some kind of real life simulator. theironjef posted:I've always wanted to do a weird war game using all the ludicrous theoretical airframes from the end of the war. That german swing-swing design where instead of folding back, the wings just rotate 45 degrees along a central axis, the Triebflugl, the bombers with gunner pods mounted on the wingtips, that asymmetrical Blohm and Voss BV141, there was just so much cool stuff. Maybe mix in a little mysticism with that Nazi secret bell thing and the spear of Longinus, whatever. Just such a great setting. WW2, 1947. I think Warbirds could work. Doresh fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jul 2, 2016 |
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Jul 2, 2016 14:47
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Did anyone point out that under Dennis O'Day they call T.E. Lawrence "T.H. Lawrence"?
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Jul 2, 2016 16:06
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Doresh posted:Seeing how Armor Class, the other most important combat stat, is also very abstract and somewhat non-intuitive ("What? So people have an easier time hitting me when I'm not wearing that plate armor?"), it is fascinating how some grogs can see D&D has some kind of real life simulator. Arguments over why not taking any damage because your DEX modifier to AC is high is the same as not taking any damage because your plate armor's armor bonus to AC is high, is the worst.
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Jul 2, 2016 17:54
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gradenko_2000 posted:Arguments over why not taking any damage because your DEX modifier to AC is high is the same as not taking any damage because your plate armor's armor bonus to AC is high, is the worst. At least there's no argument over by how much the attacker has to fail before it was not the armor that stopped the attack, but an actual dodge. It's obviously the touch AC, right?! Now figuring out the exact moment your Shield AC bonuses kicked in is another story...
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Jul 2, 2016 19:51
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on the topic of wunderwaffe (and quasi-wunderwaffe) one can't forget the Dambuster that eventually inspired the Star Wars trench run.
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Jul 2, 2016 20:15
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SirPhoebos posted:on the topic of wunderwaffe (and quasi-wunderwaffe) one can't forget the Dambuster that eventually inspired the Star Wars trench run. If you watch that bomber movie scene alongside the trench run it goes way beyond homage. I'm like 90% sure someone put a video up on youtube with the star wars audio over the other one.
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Jul 2, 2016 21:13
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gradenko_2000 posted:The Amerikabomber was a German project to build a plane with enough range to attack the continental United States from Germany, and then come back. That's a distance of about 6 400 km. Later, this was revised to being able to attack CONUS from the Azores, reducing the trip to just 4 120 km from there to New York. Well, the B-36 was drawn up during the Battle of Britain just in case the Brits got invaded and lost like everyone else in Europe had. It was intended to fly from the east cost, bomb Germany and come back, but then it turned out we didn't need it right away and it got put on the back burner. It and the Amerikabomber were pretty much the same strategic idea.
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Jul 2, 2016 22:24
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wdarkk posted:Lots of people don't count the Manhattan Project (or the B-29, or the B-36) as wonderwaffen when they maybe should. 100% agree. The Manhattan Project in particular is exactly that sort of super weapon bullshit... except ours terrifyingly turned out to be as-advertised. Young Freud posted:Project Pluto? I have to explain so people realize just how loving insane this thing was. It's a nuclear powered supersonic, potentially hypersonic, cruise missile. Not nuclear armed (though it is this as well), nuclear powered. It uses a light weight, un-shielded nuclear reactor to apply heat to a ramjet engine. In theory it could fly for months at a time, and supersonic speeds at near treetop height, all the while spewing fission products out its tail pipe. It was designed to carry multiple nuclear bombs to drop, but that's actually the boring bit. Just the shockwave from its low level flight could cause significant damage, and remember its supposed to be making these passes for days, weeks, months. And when it finally did run out of fuel, the plan was to crash it into a final target at top speed. It wouldn't be a nuclear explosion, but it would gently caress up whatever it hit real bad AND throw all the remaining radioactive waste on board all over the landscape. They canceled the project because they were scared they'd prompt the Soviets to build their own, and because ICBMs seemed more promising.
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Jul 3, 2016 03:41
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Doresh posted:At least there's no argument over by how much the attacker has to fail before it was not the armor that stopped the attack, but an actual dodge. It's obviously the touch AC, right?! One of the best rules I encountered in HackMaster 4e was that if you were hit on your AC exactly, that meant the hit went to your shield and you were supposed to apply the game's item integrity/destruction rules against the shield with the damage dealt.
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Jul 3, 2016 03:47
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http://www.somethingawful.com/news/my-tank-fight/ Zack Parsons wrote a bunch of articles and a book about the Wunderwaffen. quote:Rocket Age uses the Vortex System which was not developed for this game, just adapted. Originally it was created for Cubicle 7's Doctor Who Adventures in Time and Space. What does this mean? It means both games benefit? The Doctor gets a cool new setting to adventure in and Rocket Age can benefit from the best Cryptic Godlike NPC Mentor? And you can do Spitfires in space? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HirwnpeugNM Count Chocula fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 04:21
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As my Mother's moving out of her house and I need to take back all those big carboard boxes full of books I didn't use I'd stashed there, I find myself surprised at all the stuff I bought and never played. Ah, the halcyon days when I had a job and could spend money so freely. One of them is a western RPG called Aces and Eights. A quick scan shows it to be a weird mess with lots of random parts in characters creation and advancement (something I've come to strongly hate) and an alternate history where the South won (although unlike Deadlands they're still slavers and their economy is poo poo). I'm curious if anyone ever ran the drat thing or if there ever was a deeper look at it. Seems like something that would fit in a System Mastery episode.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:57
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MonsieurChoc posted:As my Mother's moving out of her house and I need to take back all those big carboard boxes full of books I didn't use I'd stashed there, I find myself surprised at all the stuff I bought and never played. Ah, the halcyon days when I had a job and could spend money so freely.
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Jul 3, 2016 06:11
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I tried it a little bit, but we never got past the 'roll up characters and have a bar fight' stage. Things I remember: It's like those old RPGs where random chargen can cripple or kill you before you even play, but instead of killing YOU you're rolling to see how many of your siblings died of syphilis. The combat system is agonizingly granular. Like, I think it's broken down to tenths of a second, and you track movement separately from attacking. To shoot something, you lay down a clear plastic sheet with a targeting reticle on it over a paper with a silhouette that matches your target as much as possible, then draw a card and roll a die to see where the shot actually goes. If the shot lands on the silhouette, you hit. Cover can be represented by slapping a barrel or a wall or something over the silhouette. Hit the barrel, then yay cover helped. This is super janky in practice, and there's not NEARLY enough silhouettes for realistic play. On the other hand, it makes me think the system could be designed around an app. Choose a silhouette from a list, drag cover onto it, have the app scale the silhouette size based on distance, and touch the screen where you're trying to shoot.
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Jul 3, 2016 06:21
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Yup, HackMaster 5th Edition used a bunch of stuff from Aces & Eights, notably the combat.
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Jul 3, 2016 06:37
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Am I misremembering or doesn't Aces & Eights have detailed subsystems for things like standing trial, I seem to recall a writeup where there was an example of someone's character being put on trial for some crimes and there was like an actual Old Timey Western Courtroom minigame.
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Jul 3, 2016 06:43
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"I got a natural 20." "Uhhh...let's see. Governor's pardon and a monetary compensation for trouble." "gently caress yeah, that's Bragging Spurs money."
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Jul 3, 2016 09:24
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Imagine if Boot Hill had caught on and D&D hadn't.
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Jul 3, 2016 09:55
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Yep, turns out I was right.
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Jul 3, 2016 09:59
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